Any spell cast

[Rogar Demonblud]

Elementals are still subject to the petrification if they attack. So even if you don't become a temporary lawn ornament for casting the spell, they will.

[Reboot]

Elementals are still subject to the petrification if they attack. So even if you don't become a temporary lawn ornament for casting the spell, they will.

Hence the fly spell and the hovering over before attacking.

(I was imagining the summoning - and probably the ordering - was done between the barriers)

[Dion]

Hence the fly spell and the hovering over before attacking.

(I was imagining the summoning - and probably the ordering - was done between the barriers)

Because flying creatures aren’t subject to dwarven law... genius!

[Rogar Demonblud]

No, Reboot's plan is for the suddenly petrified elemental to just fall on someone, which is not how the spell works. If the fly spell is not dispelled, the stone will simply hover. If it is dispelled, the stone will gently drop down until it reaches ground level.

[ijuinkun]

Wait...

There's such a thing as ale that's not holy?

Wow...

Okay. I needed time to process that.

Ale is sacred, but to be "holy" in this context is for it to have been blessed through certain ceremony and/or prayers by a priest.

[Dion]

No, Reboot's plan is for the suddenly petrified elemental to just fall on someone,

That’s as silly as my earlier idea of just tossing around fireballs and then claiming “fireballs target an area, not people! It’s technically your fault if you’re in the way!”

[D.One]

Because flying creatures aren’t subject to dwarven law... genius!

If that comes into play during the Council scene, I'll laugh.

[Cazero]

Because flying creatures aren’t subject to dwarven law... genius!

It's not about flight, it's about above ground territory. Flying underground won't work.

[D.One]

It's not about flight, it's about above ground territory. Flying underground won't work.

Sooo... is flying some sort of diplomatic immunity?

[Squire Doodad]

If that comes into play during the Council scene, I'll laugh.

The landing pad monsters get their vengeance, only to realize they did it the wrong way.

[RatElemental]

It did say any spell on a creature.

So what if Durkon cast dispel magic... on the barrier? Strikes me as being wondrous architecture, which means if he passes the CL check it'd go dormant for a few rounds, long enough to get some work done in the commotion.

[Dion]

It did say any spell on a creature.

The barrier doesn’t just prevent casting spells on creatures. It turns anyone who violates ANY dwarven law to stone instantly.

The prohibition against casting any spell on any creature is just one example among the many laws that are enforced.

Remember, the dwarves have had more than a 1,000 years to come up with the rules, and clearly there are dwarves who really, really, REALLY like rules.

[MartianInvader]

What I'm not clear on is whether the barrier actually prevents casting spells (ie the turning to stone disrupts the spell), or whether it's purely a punative effect and the spell still takes effect. Maybe Durkon can just cast Greater Dispel Magic on the council and save the world for the simple cost of being turned to stone until the meeting ends.

[Rogar Demonblud]

If it was that simple, there'd be no need for this much build up.

[Xyril]

The barrier doesn’t just prevent casting spells on creatures. It turns anyone who violates ANY dwarven law to stone instantly.

The prohibition against casting any spell on any creature is just one example among the many laws that are enforced.

Remember, the dwarves have had more than a 1,000 years to come up with the rules, and clearly there are dwarves who really, really, REALLY like rules.

True, but the fact that they really like rules, and that they mostly grew up among folks who really like rules, might be precisely why they would have a blind spot for loopholes. Even if you're well aware that most other races are far less scrupulous than you are and make efforts to think about how they would circumvent the rules, the fact that you and everybody you know have never tried to think that way remains a major handicap.

Lawyers to exploit loopholes for a living have trouble crafting laws and contracts without unintended loopholes. I imagine it would be far more difficult of a task for someone who is only abstractly aware that lawyers and loopholes exist, and almost certainly doomed to failure if that someone is utterly convinced that their inherent honesty and love of laws are enough to guarantee success.

Also, while it's mostly been done as punchlines, there have been numerous examples of dwarves showing a shocking lack of ability to think even a little outside the box, i.e. Durkon and Minrah being unable to fully accept that their orthodoxy may have been a less-than-accurate interpretation of Thor's will regarding trees, or Durkon (and Roy, but obviously not a dwarf) showing a complete lack of self-awareness regarding the idea of lawful good types not being the best at accepting viewpoints outside of their own--IIRC, this last bit was well after they'd met Miko, too.

[Squire Doodad]

Also, while it's mostly been done as punchlines, there have been numerous examples of dwarves showing a shocking lack of ability to think even a little outside the box, i.e. Durkon and Minrah being unable to fully accept that their orthodoxy may have been a less-than-accurate interpretation of Thor's will regarding trees, or Durkon (and Roy, but obviously not a dwarf) showing a complete lack of self-awareness regarding the idea of lawful good types not being the best at accepting viewpoints outside of their own--IIRC, this last bit was well after they'd met Miko, too.

Nah. The tree thing was spot on, it's just that Thor calmed down a little like a century ago and hasn't had the best of contact with his high priests until a few years back.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Maybe Durkon can just cast Greater Dispel Magic on the council and save the world for the simple cost of being turned to stone until the meeting ends.

If it was that simple, there'd be no need for this much build up.

Indeed. More likely, the build up is so that Durkon can defeat the vampires by using his moral compass to break the councilmembers domination, not unlike what we have seen Roy do.

Magic is (almost*) never the solution to a plotline, as was established by V.

Grey Wolf

*I'll grant that V's gust of wind did "resolve" a B-plot, but only in the sense that it was already resolved, and it was a way to let the readership know it wasn't coming back.

[D.One]

We could also say the Resurrection spell was the final step in solving "Roy's dead" subplot.

[Corruptedpants]

Ok yeah so I figured it out.

Presumably, attempting to tamper with the dwarven council vote (by magical means or otherwise) would be against dwarven law as well and thus auto-stonify any collaborating vampires in the chamber. So that's a load of winged bull.

But I figured it out:
Check 1157 (Can't post urls, first post here evar)
"Take your seat in the inner chamber. Vote yes on the main proposal and follow any verbal instructions given by a vampire"

Who's to say Dvalin or his cleric can't change the wording of the proposal. "Do we give this world a chance to fix the problem and have it continue to exist" -> The dominated councillors will be forced to say "yes", thus crisis averted.

[Cazero]

Presumably, attempting to tamper with the dwarven council vote (by magical means or otherwise) would be against dwarven law as well and thus auto-stonify any collaborating vampires in the chamber. So that's a load of winged bull.

A disturbing accusation, if true. However, now that plans for a full investigation have been made, pushing the topic could be considered slander.

[denthor]

Ok yeah so I figured it out.

Presumably, attempting to tamper with the dwarven council vote (by magical means or otherwise) would be against dwarven law as well and thus auto-stonify any collaborating vampires in the chamber. So that's a load of winged bull.

But I figured it out:
Check 1157 (Can't post urls, first post here evar)
"Take your seat in the inner chamber. Vote yes on the main proposal and follow any verbal instructions given by a vampire"

Who's to say Dvalin or his cleric can't change the wording of the proposal. "Do we give this world a chance to fix the problem and have it continue to exist" -> The dominated councillors will be forced to say "yes", thus crisis averted.

Welcome to the boards(insanity).

May we not infect you.

[D.One]

Check 1157 (Can't post urls, first post here evar)
"Take your seat in the inner chamber. Vote yes on the main proposal and follow any verbal instructions given by a vampire"

Who's to say Dvalin or his cleric can't change the wording of the proposal. "Do we give this world a chance to fix the problem and have it continue to exist" -> The dominated councillors will be forced to say "yes", thus crisis averted.

I like the idea that a clever use of the wording of the command Gontor* gave (in this case, the command to vote yes) might be a solution for the situation. The main problem for the heroes to explore that is that they didn't listen to Gontor* giving the command. Unless, of course, the vampires' plan was so detailed that Durkon* and Gontor* established even that exact phrase previously.

Welcome to the boards(insanity).

May we not infect you.

I believe that ship has already sailed...

[Jannoire]

It would feel pretty cheap though...

The plot has been built for months, if not years... Having it resolved by just asking a slightly different question would feel a lot like studying for an exam and then getting an A for writing your name correctly.

[Corruptedpants]

The plot has been built for months, if not years... Having it resolved by just asking a slightly different question would feel a lot like studying for an exam and then getting an A for writing your name correctly.

The plot isn't about the dwarven council. That's a side plot, that's only been happening for less time than the actual question of the godsmoot has been revealed. It has to be resolved in favor of the OotS so they have enough time to resolve the A plot - Xykon and the last gate, which will inevitably lead to the resolution of the cosmic conundrum.

Just for that reason it is narratively impossible for the Order to fail here, and the sooner we get a resolution to this side show, the better.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The plot isn't about the dwarven council. That's a side plot, that's only been happening for less time than the actual question of the godsmoot has been revealed. It has to be resolved in favor of the OotS so they have enough time to resolve the A plot - Xykon and the last gate, which will inevitably lead to the resolution of the cosmic conundrum.

Just for that reason it is narratively impossible for the Order to fail here, and the sooner we get a resolution to this side show, the better.

No. For the purposes of this book (#6), this is the main plot, and Xykon and the gates are irrelevant. The resolution is not going to be taken out of the Oots’ hands (and to be more specific, it won’t be taken out of Durkon’s hands, since this is his book) and given to a random godling with a grand total of like 3 strip appearances.

Grey Wolf

[Gallowglass]

The plot isn't about the dwarven council. That's a side plot, that's only been happening for less time than the actual question of the godsmoot has been revealed. It has to be resolved in favor of the OotS so they have enough time to resolve the A plot - Xykon and the last gate, which will inevitably lead to the resolution of the cosmic conundrum.

Just for that reason it is narratively impossible for the Order to fail here, and the sooner we get a resolution to this side show, the better.

Why do you even read this comic?

Spoiler alert. The OOtS is not going to lose, they are going to beat Xykon, they are going to "beat" the snarl, they are going to save the world. It is as narrative-ly impossible for the Order to fail on what you call "the A plot" as it is for them to fail on this "side show"

In fact, the narrative outcome of "the side show" presents a more variable outcome than the A-plot.

{scrubbed}

[Corruptedpants]

Spoiler alert. The OOtS is not going to lose, they are going to beat Xykon, they are going to "beat" the snarl, they are going to save the world. It is as narrative-ly impossible for the Order to fail on what you call "the A plot" as it is for them to fail on this "side show"

In fact, the narrative outcome of "the side show" presents a more variable outcome than the A-plot.

No. Wrong. In fact, it is quite obvious that the Order will fail at defeating Xykon. Because the central conflict, the theme, is a conflict between the snarl, the pantheons, and the Dark One. The "A plot", the Order-Xykon conflict, must fail (from a perspective of the OotS) to bring ahead a resolution of this great conflict, the conflict between gods and mortals.

Xykon doesn't want to destroy the world, some of his best evil took place there. The gods do want to destroy the world. Either because they understand what the Dark One is up to, or because they want to be on the safe side, or for other schemes such as with Hel.

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}

For the D&D jokes mostly. And the murder.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The Snarl is a macguffin. The gods are interested bystanders. The OOTS are the main characters, and the story is about them and what they do.

[georgie_leech]

No. Wrong. In fact, it is quite obvious that the Order will fail at defeating Xykon. Because the central conflict, the theme, is a conflict between the snarl, the pantheons, and the Dark One. The "A plot", the Order-Xykon conflict, must fail (from a perspective of the OotS) to bring ahead a resolution of this great conflict, the conflict between gods and mortals.

Xykon doesn't want to destroy the world, some of his best evil took place there. The gods do want to destroy the world. Either because they understand what the Dark One is up to, or because they want to be on the safe side, or for other schemes such as with Hel.

For the D&D jokes mostly. And the murder.

I'm just gonna leave the Giant to speak for himself:

The Snarl is not the threat; Xykon is the threat.

...The Snarl plot is part of the armature upon which I hang the characters' conflicts; it is not the whole of the story. The strip is titled The Order of the Stick, not The Chase for the Snarl or even Saving the World.

In short, you have which part of the plot the author considers the main conflict/point of the comic almost completely and explicitly backwards.
Cool, I didn't even need Summon Banana this time.

[Corruptedpants]

I'm just gonna leave the Giant to speak for himself:

In short, you have which part of the plot the author considers the main conflict/point of the comic almost completely and explicitly backwards.

I don't see a disagreement there. He didn't say "The story ends when Xykon dies". Let me put it in a different way what the problem with your framework is:

So after the Order inevitably destroyed the vampires and saved the day and the dwarven council elects to let the world live for a little bit longer, they go to Xykon and defeat him. Climactic battle, endless speeches, Belkar dies, the works. But they win. Then the gods destroy the world anyways because the Snarl is getting loose. Or because Redcloak completes the Plan. The end.

The snarl-god conflict is the framework in which the Order operates in. The narrative focuses on the OotS and its characters. That's why I said the Order-Xykon dealio is the A-plot. But it doesn't end there. Instead, the Order will fail, MUST fail at that point of fighting with Xykon, so as to get involved with the god-plot. Instead they'll have to get Redcloak on their side and probably broker a cooperation between the Dark one and the Pantheons. Exactly BECAUSE the story is about the OotS and we need these characters in those positions so we can resolve those plotlines using these characters.