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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    leegi0n's Avatar

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    Default ideas for rogue twins

    Hey Playgrounders,

    I'm fishing for suggestions on something. We're starting a new forgotten realms (3.0/3.5) game and two of us are looking to play halfling rogue siblings. My character will be a mute.

    Can you guys please; make some suggestions for multi-class flavor between the two of us. I mean, we can go straight rogue and rely on the role-playing, no problem, but if there are solid classes that would mesh and/or complement the two, I'd like to explore those options.

    Level 1. Halfling Rogues. One male, one female. Siblings.

    Any suggestions?
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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: ideas for rogue twins

    I like Scout if you like other base classes.

    Master thrower is a ton of fun and flavorful for halflings

    My personal favorite rogue PRC (although not great) is Thief Acrobat


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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: ideas for rogue twins

    So here's a few ideas that popped into mind: Play into the mute and non-mute angle. Have the mute sibling become something like a Whisperknife, Shadow Dancer, or possibly an Avenger, while the other Twin becomes say, an Arcane Trickster, or possibly a Prestige Bard, something that can draw attention while the silent twin does the grim work.

    Both of them are still stealth specialists, but the diversification of their roles means that they can compliment one-another. Oh, and if your DM allows you, a Regional Feat from Forgotten Realms called Thunder Twin which is normally for dwarves, but I think is super flavorful, letting you get an intuitive direction for where your Twin is, as well as a nice little bump on diplomacy and intimidate checks.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: ideas for rogue twins

    Psychic rogue + recharge so that you can keep each other at full power points. A lot less questionable than trying to bestow power from yourself to yourself

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: ideas for rogue twins

    Two of my players recently made a rogue/scout duo team, however they were adopted brothers, not blood-related.

    One being a rogue/warblade/assassin would open up alot of doors for different debilitating maneuvers, while having the death attack ability. Skill trick feats in complete Scoundrel are amazing and just flavorful as hell.

    The other, if they go the archer route, can play a scout/rogue/ranger. The feats in complete Scoundrel "swift ambusher" and "swift hunter" allow you to stack scout/ranger/rogue levels for sneak attack damage, and then you're pumping out handfuls of D6s. If you take "improved skirmish", you gain an additional 2d6 if you move 20' instead of 10'.

    So you have one character running around pumping out d6s like crazy, while the other slits throats from the shadows, and can remain hidden and study his victim for his death attack.

    By far my favourite duo for rogues; theres never enough D6s at the table, and if their hide/move silently is high enough, people dont even know what's happening.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: ideas for rogue twins

    Quote Originally Posted by ByOdin'sBeard View Post
    Two of my players recently made a rogue/scout duo team, however they were adopted brothers, not blood-related.

    One being a rogue/warblade/assassin would open up alot of doors for different debilitating maneuvers, while having the death attack ability. Skill trick feats in complete Scoundrel are amazing and just flavorful as hell.

    The other, if they go the archer route, can play a scout/rogue/ranger. The feats in complete Scoundrel "swift ambusher" and "swift hunter" allow you to stack scout/ranger/rogue levels for sneak attack damage, and then you're pumping out handfuls of D6s. If you take "improved skirmish", you gain an additional 2d6 if you move 20' instead of 10'.

    So you have one character running around pumping out d6s like crazy, while the other slits throats from the shadows, and can remain hidden and study his victim for his death attack.

    By far my favourite duo for rogues; theres never enough D6s at the table, and if their hide/move silently is high enough, people dont even know what's happening.
    Good combos, I play a scout/ranger/dervish to really exploit movement. I helped a friend built a ranged SA rogue w/ a few 1-level dips that grant SA at first level, wand chamber w/ a wand of sniper's shot, blinking to attack from concealment; 15D6+47 SA by level 21, and it still could've been more.

    Only thing I could think to add would be to have one built for melee and another support: ranged like I just mentioned, or going for arcane trickster for spell support.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: ideas for rogue twins

    Drop a few skill points on speak language (sign language)

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: ideas for rogue twins

    With one of them being mute, I'd expect both the characters to take drow sign language as one of their languages known.

    Consider making the non-mute one a Beguiler (PH2), it's basically a rogue that casts enchantment and illusion spells instead of sneak attacking. That character should dip one level of Mindbender at 6th, but otherwise stick to Beguiler for their whole career.

    Consider making the mute one a Swordsage, it's just as good at skills as a Rogue (and the other character can do the Rogue-specific jobs like finding traps), and it's way better at combat and utility. Be sure to get Shadow Blade to add your Dex bonus to melee damage rolls.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Maat Mons's Avatar

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    Default Re: ideas for rogue twins

    I'll second the suggestion of Psychic Rogue. More specifically, I think that should be the mute one. Mutes are spooky. Psychics are spooky. It's a natural combination.

    If one of you takes ranks in Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate, it should probably be the one who can talk.

    If you use Ghostwise Halflings, you'll be able to communicate telepathically with your twin. I mean, you'll be able to communicate telepathically with other people too, but maybe just tell the other players that it's a special twins-only bond.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Re: ideas for rogue twins

    I don't have the books on hand right now, but if Beguiler (or psychic rogue) has dimension swap or a similar spell, you could have one of the siblings use it to let their other, more mobile sibling charge into precarious situations, then swap out with a tankier party member. They could also use this together to some extent, but it really works best as a third party so that the one swapped in gets a full round's worth of actions.

    The non-mute one could look into Perform(Ventriloquism), especially if the two can pull off the "identical switch" thing where they are mistaken for each other. Use stealth and ventriloquism to make it look like you're one person teleporting around even when you're not. Perform distractions for each other to use stealth to hide.

    There's the obvious "be each others' flanking buddies" thing, if you're both Sneak Attackers. (If one of you goes Scout, then having that means of dimension swapping would let you have one charge, and the other full attack, but you're still starving a bit for actions because you'll need to make dimension swap a swift action or faster somehow.)

    Even if you have a telepathic bond (whether by feat, race, or just the mindlink psi power), you should definitely both have a language slot spent on Sign Language.

    As a possible alternative to rogue, consider the Investigator? It also has some precision damage tricks, and there are Investigator Talents which specifically help with cooperation. They also can select a limited supply of Rogue Talents. That is Pathfinder, though, not 3.5 D&D.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: ideas for rogue twins

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Mutes are spooky. Psychics are spooky. It's a natural combination.
    That's... a little offensive.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Re: ideas for rogue twins

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    That's... a little offensive.
    I mean, I know psychics get tired of being stereotyped as spooky, but ... ;P

    Mutes, as presented in media, often do come off that way. And while I appreciate your right to be offended by, or to defend those you think might be offended by, a harmful stereotype, I also feel it important not to be too eager to be offended or defensive. "Spooky," here, is not exactly a perjorative. And while it would be more accurate to say, "Mutes in fiction are often portrayed as spooky. Psychics in fiction are often portrayed as spooky," it is not essential to understanding the context, here. I sincerely doubt anybody was thinking, "Man, if I ever meet a mute person in real life, they'll be spooky, like a psychic!"

    Good counterexample to "mutes are spooky" (even in fiction), by the way: Kung Fu Hustle has one as a relatively minor but important character who is anything but spooky. She's kinda tragic for most of the film, where and when she shows up.

    But to the point of "Mutes are spooky; psychics are spooky," it certainly can be played up to have the silence enhance any spookiness of the character. It also should not - or at least, I would recommend nobody do so - be taken as a genuine blanket assertion about all real-world mutes; it seems to me a merely pithy way of evoking a specific archetype. And hardly one that is used to cause harm to anybody IRL.

    And please, dear godlings and demigods, can we keep IRL -isms out of this gaming discussion? >_<

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