Business model for an orphanage?

**Pinjata** · 2019-06-25, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)

1.)
My players will start as young orphaned adults, taken in by a Priest of Chauntea in a small rural town. Now, this is sort of Priest's hobby - getting less fortunate on their feet, learning them some basic skills.

But how does the investment return? I'm thinking he just lets them into the world with You Owe Me letter. Most wards never return, but some do and donate part of their earnings back to temple. Sometimes, that is a few dozen goldpieces, sometimes 10.000 goldpieces. Depends on person's luck.

2.)
I have an experienced player in game (most are noobs) who already passed "the Trials of Orphanage". He will be returning as a low level adventurer and I wonder, how could Priest hook him up with the newest batch of "baked and ready" temple wards? Any ideas are welcome.

thanks

**Xuc Xac** · 2019-06-25, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)

I don't think a priest of Chauntea would do this as a hobby and expect a profit from their "investment". Taking care of the unfortunate and hungry is a priest of Chauntea's calling, not a hobby. They don't feed and clothe orphans because one of them might later grow up to be rich and give them money. They do it because they don't want dead orphans.

**Archpaladin Zousha** · 2019-06-25, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)

Exactly...an orphanage is usually cited as an example of a nonprofit for a reason.

**Man_Over_Game** · 2019-06-25, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Xuc Xac

I don't think a priest of Chauntea would do this as a hobby and expect a profit from their "investment". Taking care of the unfortunate and hungry is a priest of Chauntea's calling, not a hobby. They don't feed and clothe orphans because one of them might later grow up to be rich and give them money. They do it because they don't want dead orphans.

An orphanage might be sponsored by a fund from the local government, as part of some morality legislature, or in an attempt to keep the level of crime and homelessness down.

It could also be that the orphans provide a skill for people who spend their money on donations for the orphanage. Selling baked goods, for instance. Maybe crafting items, or they make a sort of fair where the children each provide some sort of entertainment or sell goods that they've made.

These children probably aren't getting much education, and they don't have jobs, so there's a lot of free time that they have. Bored people either find work or find trouble.

**KineticDiplomat** · 2019-06-25, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)

None the less, bread, masonry, and the like cost money. Non-profit or not, goods and services are still required. So how does he keep it running? There's a few ways:

1) A budget from a higher organization. Could be a government, could be a philanthropic owner who lets the priesthood run it, could be a church, could be owner-operated in the modern parlance. Would would imply the owner has his own wealth and has taken this over as a sort of...retirement form whatever he was doing to get rich. Since this is medieval fantasy, there aren't things like online investments for little people. No one "sendings" an account statement. Whoever is backing the place either has oodles of money literally in their possession or is still actively involved with an organization that handles money directly. He still has enough wasta to be influential one way or another.

In this case, there is only really one rule to follow: keep the benefactor happy. They give you money because it suits them. Maybe that means hobnobbing with the high priests, maybe it means looking the other way when the prince drafts any magical talent out of your orphanage, maybe it means working as a cover. Maybe it just means making rich people feel like they're doing good things.

2) Endowments. Pretty much works like you suggested. There may be a shoestring budget from somewhere else, but more or less you are hoping for "alumni" to give money back in to the system. Of course, if you want your priest to be a little more aggressive in the pursuit of "donations" it would hardly be the first time in history that children were either exploited by modern standards (you owe eighteen years of raising costs back. We'll take a tenth a year until you pay) or by any standards.

3) Charitable donations. Exactly what it sounds like. What is interesting here is that you are essentially fighting for market share. Yes, to do good of course, but everyone else has to eat and/or decorate their palace with fine art, and there's only so much feel good money to go around. Sometimes you have to drum some up by proving what good work you're doing, what good work the people you're raising are doing...much easier to keep the place running if everyone associates it with fine young men and civic assistance, rather than a bottomless pit of beggars who never seem to amount to anything YOU hear about.

4) Forced apprenticeship. Gone out of style these days, but it would not be a stretch for the setting to simply sell off the orphans. Not directly, or as "places" per se, but what better outcome could you have? You know little Timmy is going to have a way to earn a living, and the orphanage gets a fee from whoever is buying. Other than the potential for hideous exploitation that would probably be, for a medieval setting, called "life."

Feel free to add, or to mix and match. Any number would give practical concerns for why the "wards of the temple" are being asked to go off and do something.
Amongst others. Any of those would

**Brother Oni** · 2019-06-25, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game

These children probably aren't getting much education, and they don't have jobs, so there's a lot of free time that they have. Bored people either find work or find trouble.

Given the pseudo-medieval culture of D&D, apprenticeships typically start in the teens, but can be as young as 7. I don't think the children would have much time for being bored, especially since the donations are unlikely to cover running costs of the orphanage, so even if the children weren't put into some work-release scheme, they would still be working, either growing their own food, cooking or cleaning/maintaining the orphanage.

Originally Posted by KineticDiplomat

Gone out of style these days, but it would not be a stretch for the setting to simply sell off the orphans. Not directly, or as "places" per se, but what better outcome could you have?

Children being sold off as slaves or sex workers may be a step too dark for the OP's game, even if it did reflect the fate of orphans in some cultures.

**KineticDiplomat** · 2019-06-25, 05:26 PM (ISO 8601)

Likely. However, children being given up as monks, laborers, apprentices for less desirable trades like night soil collector, oarsmen/slaves, guttersweepings for the armies...these are all quite plausible.

**Segev** · 2019-06-25, 05:36 PM (ISO 8601)

Traditionally, orphanages - particularly religious ones - were charities. They ran on donations, and often had a parent organization or several patrons. A religious orphanage is essentially a monestary or nunnary which also has kids living in it, most of whom will be receiving the Church education and expected to live similar lives to the monks. They will eventually be given opportunity to take vows or make their own way, and efforts made for those not interested in becoming priests or monks or the like to get apprenticeships. But the orphanage usually runs on the charitable donations of former members, on the tithes paid to church, and on other forms of donations. Some may also sell things - works produced by the monks, fortunes told by the clergy (you can look into how Shinto shrines in Japan make their livings, for instance) - but it mostly amounts to devout generosity.

For less church-oriented charitable orphanages, they often had one or more noble patrons. The wealthy elite who, whether through the good of their hearts or out of a motive to look good or for their own reasons, donate large sums to the budget. Some may have a single patron who runs the budget (but hires a caretaker to do the actual raising).

British work-houses and various less...socially-minded governmental orphanages would have a shared notion that the young people can do menial work for which they can charge customers...so they do put them to work. For all the horrors we hear from them, there were many British subjects who became successful adults with families of their own who grew up in the workhouses. That doesn't mean they were ideal, but it does mean they can be made functional. And you could design your own for your fiction to be as horrible or as noble as you wished, with conditions ranging from slavery and sweat shops to a good vocational training and instilling hard work ethic mixed with solid educational opportunities.

And then there's the sinister side of government orphanages: they may be mandatory. There are several kinds of tyranny which see value in taking children from their families and raising and indoctrinating them to view the State or the King as their "parent." I'm naming no real names, here, and not really alluding to any one in particular, but a strict and required boarding school program where children can visit family only rarely can easily also absorb orphans with no family who just don't have another home to which to go home. And real monstrous ones might not ever let children "go home," viewing the raising of them as the government's right and responsibility entirely.

The latter kind would, obviously, be government-supported.

But for your example of religious support, it's part of that particular church's budget. The abbot or elder or whomever makes this well-known, and works to raise the money from the tithes and charity of his faithful. Grown "graduates" who made it in the world may well return to donate generously, seeing it as a way of giving back and helping their brothers and sisters who live there now. There may be "bake sales" or other projects, but it is unlikely that it's run as a profitable institution rather than a net charity.

**Honest Tiefling** · 2019-06-25, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Brother Oni

Children being sold off as slaves or sex workers may be a step too dark for the OP's game, even if it did reflect the fate of orphans in some cultures.

Chauntea is usually neutral good, and most people would likely think that violates the alignment a wee bit. But I think witholding blessings for fertile fields from nobles who don't pay some service to the Earthmother for her gifts is probably more acceptable if a bit neutral-ish. So your vinyard isn't doing so well? We'll take payment in gold or goods for the orphanage, thanks.

Another idea might be that a priest, if independently wealthy or having the ear of a noble who really enjoys having good harvests might not consider the children a source of income...But workers. Those paladins have to come from somewhere, after all. A few might be trained to help advise wealthy landowners on proper land management instead, but those are likely NPCs. The more promising ones (also known as player characters) might have been trained in the hopes of securing a promising specialist for the church interests. Hell, if the priest is savvy enough might have pushed a few that didn't seem like a good fit for Chauntea to the teachings of allied faiths to keep alliances strong. You don't get to be one of the most powerful gods of the setting without realizing the power of allies.

**Jay R** · 2019-06-25, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)

For a chilling version of this, I recommend the movie Newsies.

Oliver Twist shows the process of using orphans as beggars and thieves. The priest may not know that his benefactors are using the children this way.

**Tvtyrant** · 2019-06-25, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Pinjata

1.)
My players will start as young orphaned adults, taken in by a Priest of Chauntea in a small rural town. Now, this is sort of Priest's hobby - getting less fortunate on their feet, learning them some basic skills.

But how does the investment return? I'm thinking he just lets them into the world with You Owe Me letter. Most wards never return, but some do and donate part of their earnings back to temple. Sometimes, that is a few dozen goldpieces, sometimes 10.000 goldpieces. Depends on person's luck.

2.)
I have an experienced player in game (most are noobs) who already passed "the Trials of Orphanage". He will be returning as a low level adventurer and I wonder, how could Priest hook him up with the newest batch of "baked and ready" temple wards? Any ideas are welcome.

thanks

1. The priest trains them to be ready to work as journeymen in various guilds, and then gets a kickback for providing new workers to under-utilized industries. The Tanner guild for instance requires new members but can't attract them from the general population.

2. He mostly trains them for military service, getting a kickback from the local lord who wants Men at Arms he doesn't have to pay much or train himself.

3. They act as healers, being raised by a priest, and communities provide him a small portion of the amount owed for one of his disciples healing someone. This sets up a tidy profit over many years.

4. He relies on former orphans who have done well to give him money out of gratitude.

5. The priest is paid by the local dragon not to let the orphans become heroes. As most heroes are orphans the dragon fears the revenge of orphans beyond all other threats, and he convinces them to forgive and forget in return for money.

**Honest Tiefling** · 2019-06-25, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Tvtyrant

1. The priest trains them to be ready to work as journeymen in various guilds, and then gets a kickback for providing new workers to under-utilized industries. The Tanner guild for instance requires new members but can't attract them from the general population.

I love how one of the less evil options for orphan raising involves them being trained to become tanners...One of the professions often associated with becoming a social pariah and heavy amounts of discrimination. I think this just goes to show how badly orphans were treated historically.

Yeah, I don't think THOSE orphans are going to give the church much in the way of money later on. Imagine being raised by the Chaunteans and instead of becoming a healer or a paladin the priest looks at you and says: "So...How do you feel about handling dung and hides? Think you can manage that?"

**Tvtyrant** · 2019-06-25, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling

I love how one of the less evil options for orphan raising involves them being trained to become tanners...One of the professions often associated with becoming a social pariah and heavy amounts of discrimination. I think this just goes to show how badly orphans were treated historically.

Yeah, I don't think THOSE orphans are going to give the church much in the way of money later on. Imagine being raised by the Chaunteans and instead of becoming a healer or a paladin the priest looks at you and says: "So...How do you feel about handling dung and hides? Think you can manage that?"

Agreed. Nothing like being turned to a life of smelly drudgery.

Although it has the advantage of making you the best staff fighter in the whole of Robin Hood's merry men.

**Honest Tiefling** · 2019-06-25, 08:05 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Tvtyrant

Although it has the advantage of making you the best staff fighter in the whole of Robin Hood's merry men.

Robin Hood was technically a thief, so now we've looped back to thievery being an excellent option for orphans. Thank you thread, for justifying every single larceny inclined tiefling PC I will ever make.

You know, if this is an idea for a campaign, why not steal a page from Blues Brothers and have the orphanage be in debt? Maybe the priest no longer has a benefactor who will provide money and it is up the player characters to go get some.

**LibraryOgre** · 2019-06-25, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)

You want an ROI on an orphanage? Figure out what you can use the kids for, within your ethics. Chauntea is NG, so it's a bit more limited, but...

Starting about 6-8, put them to work. A lot of what they do will be basic life stuff... washing dishes, cleaning places, maybe even washing clothes. A lot of this is basic chore kind of things that they'd be doing at home, but it frees up others for other duties. You have older children serve as trustees and overseers, allowing you to use less adults.

As they get bigger, they get other jobs. Working in the garden (particularly popular with the church of Chauntea), and older children might work as readers or scribes. The scribery, in particular, could be a money-maker... copying books, writing letters. It gives them a useful skill, exposes them to certain knowledge (whatever you have them copying), and can make some coin on the side.

As kids get older, you can rent them out as labor. Older kids might be useful farm labor (again, Chauntea) or any other sort of things where more hands is useful. Some who are skilled scribes can do more work along that line.

This is NOT going to be a lucrative business. If you're lucky, it might be self-supporting. But it will be less expensive to run.

**Tvtyrant** · 2019-06-25, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling

Robin Hood was technically a thief, so now we've looped back to thievery being an excellent option for orphans. Thank you thread, for justifying every single larceny inclined tiefling PC I will ever make.

You know, if this is an idea for a campaign, why not steal a page from Blues Brothers and have the orphanage be in debt? Maybe the priest no longer has a benefactor who will provide money and it is up the player characters to go get some.

The reference was to Arthur Bland, a tanner who holds even with or beats Robin Hood in a staff fight and so joins the Merry Men. I suppose being an orphan tanner staff fighter thief does work as a back story.

**Seclora** · 2019-06-25, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Tvtyrant

5. The priest is paid by the local dragon not to let the orphans become heroes. As most heroes are orphans the dragon fears the revenge of orphans beyond all other threats, and he convinces them to forgive and forget in return for money.

Honestly, this could work with either a chromatic Dragon afraid of retribution or a metallic Dragon trying to do an honest to goodness nice thing. Either way, Dragons make great patrons of causes and institutions.

Angels also work well in this situation, although it might be a little below their general scheme of things. A Devil might help fund an Orphanage through a few side channels if they think it could yield a few easy Souls later, or even just some cover for one of their other operations. Hags and many Fey are also known to take an interest in lost or wayward children for their own selfish reasons, and might disguise themselves to take advantage of an Orphanage.

Generally though, Orphanages are non-profits and don't so much have a business model as they just sort of struggle along and need constant donations from the people around them. Have your character tithe their loot, donate a Decanter of Endless Water, enchant them some self-sweeping brooms, and find some way they can have a plentiful supply of Murlynd's Filling Cardboard Gruel and access to Heward's Handy Spice Rack.
Seriously, keep the place clean and not-overly shiny. It does not take much to make the place look like a horror movie.

**Honest Tiefling** · 2019-06-25, 09:05 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Seclora

Honestly, this could work with either a chromatic Dragon afraid of retribution or a metallic Dragon trying to do an honest to goodness nice thing. Either way, Dragons make great patrons of causes and institutions.

Dragon Momma decides to keep an eye on those pesky (but lovable) humans by posing as a human priestess of Chauntea, hoping to rescue some orphans and perhaps train some worthy children along the way. She pretends to have financial difficulties running the orphanage to test her current crop of orphans and to try to tip the hand of the new Lord who needs a lesson in respecting his farmers. Unbeknownst to her, enemies from her past are interested in her new brood and might make trouble for them, hinting at her mysterious past to the orphaned player characters who might discover her secret.

I like this idea because it's less freaking horrifying than most of the comments here by far. Let's ease up on Chaunteans going into child slavery, not sure if the OP wants to be that dark.

**KaussH** · 2019-06-25, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)

While it may be non profit, that doesnt mean it doesnt need lots of money. And for that matter non profit isnt really a protect think in those times.
However since we have magic, add in what casters and casters groups/guilds might pay an orphanage for the chance to pick early talent. One or two "children with talent" could pay for a year of operation.

**Honest Tiefling** · 2019-06-25, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by KaussH

While it may be non profit, that doesnt mean it doesnt need lots of money. And for that matter non profit isnt really a protect think in those times.
However since we have magic, add in what casters and casters groups/guilds might pay an orphanage for the chance to pick early talent. One or two "children with talent" could pay for a year of operation.

Problem is, this also adds to the expenses. I mean, what sort of evil necromancer isn't going to try to raid an orphanage or two? It's just a cemetery with a few extra steps. Or if you get into trouble with your god you might need a sacrifice or two to appease them until your plans unfurl and children are travel-sized for your convenience. If you were an evil person who need some bodies for some purpose, are you going to lay siege to the fortified hold of paladins, or just raid a few children?

And hell, if there are 'children of talent' a few accidents could go a long way in securing those resources for the proper side. If the priest in charge of things is dead, you could probably steal a few orphans before anyone remembers to take care of a few hungry mouths.

**Segev** · 2019-06-26, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling

I mean, what sort of evil necromancer isn't going to try to raid an orphanage or two? It's just a cemetery with a few extra steps.

As an evil necromancer, the only real use for an orphanage is to harvest a crop of Slaymates, and that requires some special set-up. You need, primarily, either a corrupt or corruptible manager who will betray or fatally neglect his or her charges. Once you have that, you don't even need to wipe out the orphanage; you just nudge the caregiver into being responsible (by hook or by crook) for the deaths of children. Bonus if you can make the region necromantically corrupted, to maximize chance of spontaneous animation. Though if you're high enough level to cast create undead, you can probably use that spell to make the little darlings as long as they died appropriately.

But child zombies are not worth the extra effort of slaughtering an orphanage when you could just hit up a graveyard or wait for some idiot bandits to sack a caravan and leave the corpses behind for your browsing. Moreover, hitting an orphanage is very likely to lead to adventurers who grew up there returning to find it destroyed and their "little brothers and sisters" turned into your horde and come after you for it.

No, necromancers who have both Int and Wis above 11 or so won't be sacking orphanages for fodder. They'll be using them as specialty shops, and seeking to leave them intact enough to be able to shop there again. (Slaymates are fragile, so even though you're not bringing them into combat on purpose, accidents do happen.)

Now, one thing that is oft overlooked about orphanages and old-time farming was that farm families were large not just due to any lack of contraception, but because children were valuable labor to the family. A well-thought-out orphanage will maintain gardens and even active farmland, and put the children to work. Chores, yes, for those too small to do heavy work, but gradually working them up through various farm tasks. Farming is hard work, but not beyond the means of even young kids to participate meaningfully in, and barring things that will afflict whole regions with famine, each human tends to produce net more than they need to eat, even with teenaged appetites.

The difficulty there would be the immense wealth that that much land would represent in a medieval society. The orphanage would be considered on par with minor nobility for having enough to keep multiple families' worth of kids occupied. Fortunately, you have the patronage of Chauntea, who is both a goddess of agriculture and has a prominent and wealthy church. Moreover, raising some of the kids with a militant mindset (paladins-in-training, monks-in-training, etc.) will provide a nice defensive line against bandits and monsters. Put the orphanage in a rural region with "farmer" level access to "town," and it'll be a small commune/village in its own right and largely self-sustaining.

Unlike most farms, it won't have an expectation that the majority of the kids will grow up to continue farming or marry off to another farm (though many kids may well marry into other farming families, especially if they interact with neighboring farms and fall in love with nice boys and girls from those families). Heck, some level of adoption by neighboring farms who lose kids or need more hands may happen. Whether formal "join the family" adoption, "hired hands who spend a season with the family" pseudo-family-membership, or courting, intermingling and sharing of the resource of labor that the orphanage has would be feasible.

But unlike most farms, they have an ever-ready supply of new hands, and only need a few priests at most to be the managers and lead farmhands. So most of the kids will also get some sort of apprenticeship or vocational training, and it likely will have a number of adventurers head off to find their fortune. One thing that the orphans lack which farm-family kids have is any hope of an inheritance, after all.

**Thinker** · 2019-06-26, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Pinjata

1.)
My players will start as young orphaned adults, taken in by a Priest of Chauntea in a small rural town. Now, this is sort of Priest's hobby - getting less fortunate on their feet, learning them some basic skills.

But how does the investment return? I'm thinking he just lets them into the world with You Owe Me letter. Most wards never return, but some do and donate part of their earnings back to temple. Sometimes, that is a few dozen goldpieces, sometimes 10.000 goldpieces. Depends on person's luck.

2.)
I have an experienced player in game (most are noobs) who already passed "the Trials of Orphanage". He will be returning as a low level adventurer and I wonder, how could Priest hook him up with the newest batch of "baked and ready" temple wards? Any ideas are welcome.

thanks

I like the premise. Regardless of Chauntea's alignment, the priest probably has more worldly matters to contend with - like funding. This can directly feed into assembling the party.
The experienced player has returned from some place - war, jail, or even wanderlust and word has gotten around that the orphanage's priest is looking for him. The player goes to visit the orphanage and is told that the place has fallen on hard times - they can't afford the local Warlord's tribute, let alone building repairs, oil for the lanterns, craft supplies, or even diapers for the wee ones. The Warlord will be back in 2 weeks and if they don't pay, the orphanage gets burned to the ground. They need a miracle and this returning adventurer could be it. If the player is a bard, they could solve this by assembling the party and playing gigs across Illinois. Otherwise, maybe the Priest has heard about an ancient city that was long ago buried along with untold treasures. But, the adventurer can't do it alone - take these other young saps with him!

**zinycor** · 2019-06-26, 11:26 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Pinjata

1.)
My players will start as young orphaned adults, taken in by a Priest of Chauntea in a small rural town. Now, this is sort of Priest's hobby - getting less fortunate on their feet, learning them some basic skills.

But how does the investment return? I'm thinking he just lets them into the world with You Owe Me letter. Most wards never return, but some do and donate part of their earnings back to temple. Sometimes, that is a few dozen goldpieces, sometimes 10.000 goldpieces. Depends on person's luck.

2.)
I have an experienced player in game (most are noobs) who already passed "the Trials of Orphanage". He will be returning as a low level adventurer and I wonder, how could Priest hook him up with the newest batch of "baked and ready" temple wards? Any ideas are welcome.

thanks

I don't think the orphanage would have the power to force wards to pay. And I don't think they should, as others have said the orphanage would get their main income in other ways, and I would think that for the most part a good orphanage would get donations and help from wards willingly.

I don't think you need to hook your experienced player into helping the orphanage, most probably he will come up with his own reasons to help the orphanage... or won't, in which case the campaign won't be set at an orphanage and you can move on to the next setting.

**Honest Tiefling** · 2019-06-26, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)