Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Bruniik's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    As the title this is my first time attempting a full class homebrew.

    My class: The Ravager
    https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/ByX7tXmJlB

    The goal of the class is to create an arcane gish that uses melee attacks to generate charges. These charges are what fuels the spell-like attacks of the Ravager.
    What I intend is for a flow where players are alternating between making regular attacks (which are enhanced passively) to gain charges, and using charges to unleash huge attacks that cover a large area and do great damage.

    This is my first draft and I have tried my best to copy the language used in the official 5e books from WoTC.

    My biggest struggle is on how to balance to damage and size of attacks to the level they are attained and the amount of charges they cost, but any advice for changes and tweaks is welcome.

    Edit: Version 2 is ready for criticism. Have changed a fair bit. Dropped casting, got rid of phaser subclass (currently working on a replacement). Added more ribbon abilities. And more.
    https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/B1W8jS6-eB
    Last edited by Bruniik; 2019-06-29 at 01:21 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    So it appears you have a solid idea but are having trouble expanding that into a whole class. Which believe me, happens a lot. I would recommend putting the concept into a fighter, barbarian, rogue or even monk subclass first, it allows you to really focus on the unique aspects that you are going for rather than trying to fill in dead levels.

    But on what you have specifically:
    - Your level 2 ability doesn't seem to say when you lose charges (other than spending them) like your level 10 feature implies.
    - Is there a reason for the minimum spend of 2 when using Palm blast?
    - There definitely seems to be a dearth of class features, even your unique charge building mechanic only has two different uses outside of subclass. This makes the class appear very one-note without defensive, utility or flavor features.

    Sorry don't have the time to have a good look at the subclasses right now, but hope this is a good start.
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Lake Superior
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    Here's my 2cp:

    First off, it's all combat, with no focus on exploration or social interaction. The bit with smith's tools is nice, but that's as far as it goes.

    Second, you're really straining your power budget by having it exist as both a half-caster, and essentially resource-less gish simultaneously. Let me put it this way; you're a half-caster with heavy armor, Constitution saving throws, and a fantastic spell list. That alone makes you significantly better than a Ranger at everything but being in the woods :P. But, the thing is you don't even need your spells half the time since you have your charge system. Using only the base class, it's a free Smite every round/other round.

    The subclasses are more of the same; they need the same TLC as the base class, but once the fat has been trimmed, much of their problems will be solved. However, there were some features I found particularly egregious:

    The entire Phaser subclass--At-will, 0-action cost Misty Step is really strong. Monk level movement speed is strong. Free Advantage is really strong. Resource-less spells and extra damage is really strong. A LOT of extra attacks is really strong. All the features are strong, and they all synergize. Each piece pushes the limit, and when combined, it's just too much.

    Feel No Pain--It's Heavy Armor Master on steroids. Enough said.
    Last edited by Rerem115; 2019-06-26 at 01:20 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Bruniik's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    First off thanks for taking the time to look at the class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    - Your level 2 ability doesn't seem to say when you lose charges (other than spending them) like your level 10 feature implies.
    I have reworded this to specifically say lose. Hope that's less confusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    - Is there a reason for the minimum spend of 2 when using Palm blast?
    I don't want any of the uses for ravage charges to be usable every round, at least until higher levels/ ways of getting more attacks per round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    - There definitely seems to be a dearth of class features, even your unique charge building mechanic only has two different uses outside of subclass. This makes the class appear very one-note without defensive, utility or flavor features.

    Sorry don't have the time to have a good look at the subclasses right now, but hope this is a good start.
    A lot of the uses are in the subclasses. I wanted a couple in the main class that were universal with the majority coming from the subclasses to really differentiate each one. I could potentially put another in the base class. I worry that gives to many uses when combined with base classes.

    I hope you get a chance to read the subclasses :)
    The Ravager - My take on the arcane warrior

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Bruniik's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rerem115 View Post
    Here's my 2cp:

    First off, it's all combat, with no focus on exploration or social interaction. The bit with smith's tools is nice, but that's as far as it goes.

    Second, you're really straining your power budget by having it exist as both a half-caster, and essentially resource-less gish simultaneously. Let me put it this way; you're a half-caster with heavy armor, Constitution saving throws, and a fantastic spell list. That alone makes you significantly better than a Ranger at everything but being in the woods :P. But, the thing is you don't even need your spells half the time since you have your charge system. Using only the base class, it's a free Smite every round/other round.

    The subclasses are more of the same; they need the same TLC as the base class, but once the fat has been trimmed, much of their problems will be solved. However, there were some features I found particularly egregious:

    The entire Phaser subclass--At-will, 0-action cost Misty Step is really strong. Monk level movement speed is strong. Free Advantage is really strong. Resource-less spells and extra damage is really strong. A LOT of extra attacks is really strong. All the features are strong, and they all synergize. Each piece pushes the limit, and when combined, it's just too much.

    Feel No Pain--It's Heavy Armor Master on steroids. Enough said.
    First off I have definitely thought of completely cutting the spellcasting aspect of it. It was just something I initially had in and then ran away with the charge system.

    I know I need some exploration/social interaction stuff in there, any recommendations on how much should be in there?

    Noted on the Phaser. I'll try think of a different way to work it.

    For Feel No Pain I wanted an effect like Heavy Armor Master that scaled with levels in the class. I've thought of having it as temp hp each round instead, would that be better for balancing?
    The Ravager - My take on the arcane warrior

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Lake Superior
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    Taking a second look at the Max Charges table, what is that scaling? It's linear until 19th level, and then it doubles. That's very unusual.

    Anyway, temporary Hit Points might be the way to go; flat damage reduction is unusual in 5e, and becomes disgustingly powerful as the game goes on. Because of the bounded accuracy philosophy, relatively weak creatures can still pose a threat to seasoned adventurers, since they still have at least a 5% chance to do some damage under most circumstances. Flat damage reduction nullifies that, making weaker enemies and multiattackers toothless, and posing a significant challenge to encounter design.
    Last edited by Rerem115; 2019-06-26 at 02:00 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Bruniik's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rerem115 View Post
    Taking a second look at the Max Charges table, what is that scaling? It's linear until 19th level, and then it doubles. That's very unusual.
    It's intended to be part of the capstone, just like how barbarian rages go to unlimited at 20.
    The Ravager - My take on the arcane warrior

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Lake Superior
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruniik View Post
    It's intended to be part of the capstone, just like how barbarian rages go to unlimited at 20.
    That's not a fair comparison; Rage is meant to be a "go button", a Boolean off/on switch. It determines whether or not Barbarians can use a lot of their class features, and with the exception of the Zealot, unlimited uses only means that they can Rage for every encounter.

    For the Ravager though, it's more than an off/on switch. While there are some distinctions made between having points and not having points, there are numerous class features that benefit from having a large stockpile of points, so doubling the size of the pool is deceptively powerful.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Bruniik's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    That's a fair point about the barbarians rage. I appreciate the comments so far. I think I have enough to do a 2nd draft for further criticism.
    The Ravager - My take on the arcane warrior

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    And kudos to you for taking criticism so well.
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Bruniik's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    I feel anyone that takes the time to read what I have made and post replies to it must have some interest in what I'm doing.

    Getting upset from criticism would be pointless and defeat the purpose of asking for it in the first place :)

    My goal is to make changes to this class big and small so I will endeavor to take on all feedback. Hopefully it won't take me too long to get the 2nd draft done.
    The Ravager - My take on the arcane warrior

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Lake Superior
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruniik View Post
    First off I have definitely thought of completely cutting the spellcasting aspect of it. It was just something I initially had in and then ran away with the charge system.

    I know I need some exploration/social interaction stuff in there, any recommendations on how much should be in there?
    If you really like the charge system, I'd suggest you stick with it. It's a unique concept, and does a lot to differentiate this class from other half-casters. The core of "swing-swing-BLAST" is compelling.

    As a martial "half-caster", the general class layout is kinda like this:

    1. Core Class feature. Go wild, this should be relevant for the rest of your career, and needs to be interesting. You've got the framework ready.
    2. Fighting Style and "Casting". Check!
    3. Archetype! Here's where you really double down on an aspect of your class, and is a great place for some extra flavor. Usually, it's combat related, but if you allocate most of your power budget to your subclasses rather than your main class, a-la Barbarian, there's also room to squeeze in a ribbon.
    4, 8, 12, 16, 19. ASI. Check!
    5. Extra Attack. Check!
    6. Generally a weaker level. Good spot for a bit of flavor, expand on how your character interacts with the world around them. If you envision a more martial class, a weak buff to combat, like you have now, is also appropriate.
    7. It looks like you're pulling a Ranger with Archetype features. Here's a really good spot for social/exploration related content, especially since you chose Magic Weapon for 6th level. Try to find something that matches the theme of each subclass! It's essentially a ribbon level.
    9. This is a tricky level. If you have spell slots, it's blank because you get new fancy spells here, but since you've said you don't want a traditional caster, whatever you decide for this should be more powerful than a ribbon, something that you'll probably use at least once during the day. Since this class shares a lot of design space with the Fighter, maybe a variant of Indomitable; spending all or some of your charges to re-roll a failed save? Alternatively, there's room to buff your magical knowledge, giving you some bonus to use/identify/recall magical effects or items, or something like that. Or to emulate new spells, you could buff your existing uses of your charges.
    10. Whatever you didn't pick for 9, put here.
    11. Big powerspike, big subclass appropriate combat feature. You excel at this, so I'm looking forward to seeing what you pick!
    13. Another powerspike level; it's a good spot to add a fun new combat toy for your Core Class Feature.
    14. Something keyed off your Core Class Feature that gives a bit of utility, probably out of combat. Burning charges to do something other than damage, something like movement, or Truesight, or what have you would work well here.
    15. Subclass capstone! This can be big, so have fun. It's probably combat related, given the nature of this class.
    17. This level is should be strong, and improve on your Core Class Feature. If you want to add extra damage, but aren't sure where, here's a good place.
    18. Eh, it works.
    20. As a capstone, I like it. It powers up the rest of the class without significantly changing how it functions.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Bruniik's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    Wow Rerem115 this is amazing advice! Thanks.

    I'm going to work along these lines as much as possible and see what I end up with.
    The Ravager - My take on the arcane warrior

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    Level 1 is also an excellent place for a ribbon to go alongside your defining feature
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Bruniik's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: First time building a class, seeking constructive criticism.

    Have updated the original post with version 2 ready for feedback. I'm still working on the 3rd subclass but it is coming.
    The Ravager - My take on the arcane warrior

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •