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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    Megetables sounds like a Dragon Ball thing.

    Side note: I first read this thread's title as "Eat your Megatables!" I want mega-tables now.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    Does anybody else think that the use of dehydrated carrot juice is a bit of a cheat?
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    Kind of, but it's basically a spice.

    Side question: why does it seem like all these vegetable meat substitutes are trying to make burgers all the time? Why not other meats? Do Americans just eat that many burgers? I have burgers maybe three or four times a year, substituting all those for soy meat wouldn't change my climate impact all that much. Or are burgers just easier to replace since they are heavily processed already and don't feel much like whole meat anyway?
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    But why soy? Isn't there protein and iron in peanuts? I mean, I know some people have severe allergies to peanuts, but not nearly enough people to account for all the tofu that gets sold.

    And on a related note, having protein and iron doesn't make something a meat substitute. Peanut butter is not a meat substitute. A peanut butter sandwich is not a hamburger.
    I'm personally of the opinion that's it's a bad idea to rely on any one particular source of nutrients, at least at a community level. My answer to "why soy and not peanuts?" is "both".

    And no, iron and protein do not a meat substitute make. But the reference that started this tangent was "soy/plant based meat substitutes" I.e. engineering a substitute based on those materials, not slapping a block of tofu on a grill and calling it steak. Vat grown meat also isnt really a direct meat substitute: it behaves differently from meat from an animal and, crucially, lacks a fair bit of nutrients. It needs to be engineered into a proper meat substitute.

    And once you're pumping your vat meat with B12 from a fermentation tank, you'd might as keep pumping your soy burgers with it too, since that's already been happening for a while now.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Meanwhile I thought it was about eating megabytes at first.

    Arby's is a major fast food chain over here. Right up there with Taco Bell and KFC in the non-burger area. Huge. Their current slogsn is "we have the meats," been that way for years now. It's nothing but a cheeky marketing gimmick aimed at the burger places that are starting to offer meatless burgers.
    i imagined a big table made of edible material for some reason.

    This seems much more interesting to taste though.

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  6. - Top - End - #36
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    But why soy?
    Maybe economics, maybe logistics, maybe taste, maybe the Soy Illuminati. Probably that last one, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    Isn't there protein and iron in peanuts?
    I don't think there are teams forming of soy vs peanut in the ingredients of potential meat substitutes, each side refusing to give any ground to the other, willing to battle to the death in their quest to make the soybean or peanut the only viable option. Well, except for the Soy Illuminati, of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    A peanut butter sandwich is not a hamburger.
    I don't recall anyone claiming it was.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    Well, reliance on both is probably going to be necessary, as both soy and peanuts are huge allergens, much more so than meat. Through Soy might have issues in that it contains high levels of phytoestrogen, but studies haven't concluded if that's an issue or not yet, and if so, for whom. But not a lot of meat eaters are going to want to sign up to be guinea pigs.

    Soy is probably favored because it's already a huge part of many different cuisines, and can come in a lot of different forms. Peanuts are highly fatty and don't have as much of a history of forming a basis of an actual diet as far as I know.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    Quote Originally Posted by crayzz View Post
    And no, iron and protein do not a meat substitute make. But the reference that started this tangent was "soy/plant based meat substitutes" I.e. engineering a substitute based on those materials, not slapping a block of tofu on a grill and calling it steak.
    I aopolgize if I mistepresented you. My mind went there because I've seen people do that, not necessarily with steak but definitely with burgers. I've seen someone slap something that was nothing like a burger except for its shape, and possibly its protein content, onto a grill and call it a burger. And I've seen people try to cook tofu like it was meat. Neither case could actually pass for meat however.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I wonder if it would be easier if you tried bow hunting, heard it's one hunters try to get around that issue.

    As for the ad, I watched it and it's really just focused on meat, no mention of vegetarians or anything. They're probably not concerned with appealing to non-meat eaters, as it would appear that other fast food chains have already done that. So why follow the trends they set, especially when adding non-meat items is going to cause more work in the kitchen when you can just target a different customer base?
    Ah but being an archer takes talent :p

    I spent my childhood summers hunting jackrabbits (hares for you Europeans) with a bow, never hit one.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I spent my childhood summers hunting jackrabbits (hares for you Europeans) with a bow, never hit one.
    I don't go outside much, but I am pretty sure that elk are a bit larger than a rabbit. (through technically, the zone you need to aim for is much smaller than the actual body).

    Still, if you REALLY want Elk...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    My mind went there because I've seen people do that, not necessarily with steak but definitely with burgers. I've seen someone slap something that was nothing like a burger except for its shape, and possibly its protein content, onto a grill and call it a burger. And I've seen people try to cook tofu like it was meat. Neither case could actually pass for meat however.
    Fake meat products...Rarely work well. I sympathize.

    Through I do wonder, where is it proven that vat-grown meat has different nutritional properties then a hunk of animal? I'm curious as to what the difference is.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    Personally I prefer crickets to meat substitutes if I can't get mammal flesh.

    lso this entire discussion:

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    For some reason when I think of eating crickets, I get worried about accidentally ingesting a wing. Probably a silly fear.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    First to the question of "why soy" is because soy has been used for a long time, even as a protein source. Tofu has been around for 2000 years already, it was really easy to expand that into newer and different things.

    With the buggers, they do burgers and hotdogs because they are easier and significantly less dependent on texture to taste right (or it is an easier texture to match at very least). I also think it has to do with how people eat them, very few people just eat a hamburger patty or hotdog on it's own, you've got bread, often pickles, mustard, catsup, and all sorts of other things, so it is really easy to miss small changes in the meat itself. But steak is ate pretty much on it's own, the taste and texture of the meat stands on it's own, it has nothing to hide in or mix with.
    They are also lower end products, something you can get to the masses. They are staples of fast food and casual restaurants, family gatherings, and events of all sorts. The sort of places where having unusual food requirements tends to become more of a social issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Through I do wonder, where is it proven that vat-grown meat has different nutritional properties then a hunk of animal? I'm curious as to what the difference is.
    Because the nutrients in meat (and to a lesser extend vegetables as well) is very much dependent on what the creature ate before you ate it. For instance free range beef is nutritionally significantly different than farm raised beef. Chicken that get a full range diet, like bugs, lizards, and all sorts of other things, rather than simple grains, have a lot more nutrients in their meat as well. The more different things an animal gets to eat the more places it can pick up nutrients that are then stored in it, and you get it from eating them. It is also true for vegetables, you can some types to grow really fast with a lot of water and sun, but they also tends to taste worse and aren't as good for you because they just didn't have the time and availability to pick up said nutrients. Granted it is easier, and pretty much required, to add some outside sources of nutrients to keep plants growing, the plants take in micro and macro nutrients from fertilizers (both natural and man made) and turn them into other compounds.

    What that means though is that once they get to that point vat-grown meat could actually be much better for you because they could add all the nutrients into the vats for the meat to take up while it grows. Of course the issue is mostly economics, you could easily feed real animals a better mix of foods to make them more nutritious, but it would cost more, so they don't. So there is a good chance only high end "designer" vat-grown meat would have all the extras, and the mass-market stuff would just be the cheapest mix they can provide to get it to grow.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Orc in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    Because the nutrients in meat (and to a lesser extend vegetables as well) is very much dependent on what the creature ate before you ate it.
    I dont know if there are others like this, but also along these lines: B12 specifically is a function of what you eat and bacterial production in the GI tract.

    Farm animal feed is supplemented with cobalt to ensure there is enough of it for their gut bacteria to produce Cobalamin (B12); vat grown meat doesn't have a GI tract, there's nothing to produce the B12. Either the B12 is supplemented into the nutrients fed to the vat, or it gets added to the meat after the fact.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Kind of, but it's basically a spice.

    Side question: why does it seem like all these vegetable meat substitutes are trying to make burgers all the time? Why not other meats? Do Americans just eat that many burgers? I have burgers maybe three or four times a year, substituting all those for soy meat wouldn't change my climate impact all that much. Or are burgers just easier to replace since they are heavily processed already and don't feel much like whole meat anyway?
    Because its ground meat which is easier to disguise nonmeats as. You take the meat substitute, smoosh it up real nice, form it into a patty, and boom, its a burger. Its a lot easier than designing a veggie chicken to look like a whole bird. Or a soysalmon with fins.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Eat your megetables!

    Quote Originally Posted by Erloas View Post
    ...So there is a good chance only high end "designer" vat-grown meat would have all the extras, and the mass-market stuff would just be the cheapest mix they can provide to get it to grow...
    Snipping the quote to make this less confusing, but I think that's an interesting point. In theory, vat grown can be nutritious if given the right nutrient bath, but that's a pretty big if, and reliant on a lot of oversight of meat manufacturing.

    Through if you live in the states, your food might not be overseen as stringently as you'd like, so...
    Last edited by Honest Tiefling; 2019-07-09 at 09:13 PM.
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