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  1. - Top - End - #331
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    How many things where you trying to proliferate? I feel it should be able to handle a decent number of triggers before crashing.
    Four, including Simic Ascendency itself.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    So as a casual player trying to try arena and running into what is this side of infinite loop bull(sheep), it does seem like MtG DRASTICALLY needs some sort of ban/limit list, like most other card games have(Hearthstone, Pokemon, Yugioh, etc).

    This deck wasn't even a good one. It's win condition was "wait until the opponent has one less card in the deck than you, and then use the fact that your deck is 100% stall to wait until they deck out".

    Yeah, I got my "play 25 lands quest finished" quest finished, but it took at least 30 minutes(and felt like much more).

    edit: looks like they had a singular "add graveyard to deck" card, which they saved for the last turn. This still seems worthy of balancing though.
    edit2: I mean, I suppose a lot of decks DO draw extra cards too... but... like... this seems like a mildly broken deck to exist? "it can force wins" shouldn't mean "it should stay in"(though the guy was using a fair amount of cards that are leaving standard soon... they'll still be in modern though, but maybe the physical game has a big enough pool of counters to handle this white/blue monstrosity).
    Last edited by Togath; 2019-09-23 at 11:53 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #333
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    So I've had time to calm down, and I'm a bit less angry. I do still feel like maybe tweaking card amounts by limiting/banning certain cards in some formats would be very good if something like this crops up again(or stays a problem in Modern), but I am happy that the only reason I lost was due to my four banefires being buried for too long(he was at 7 health, I had 8+ mana for ages, and banefire cannot be countered if cast for 6+ mana).
    The fact that I could win means it's not quite a tier 0 deck... just a really annoying one.
    Last edited by Togath; 2019-09-24 at 12:01 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #334
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Magic does have banlists and restricted lists! Just not for Standard, which is what you play on Arena. At the moment - earlier this year Rampaging Ferocidon was still a banned card, and only got unbanned just before it rotated out.

    I haven't been able to figure out what you were playing against that gave you so much grief. Some kind of control list? Which card specifically do you think ought to be banned? What's the decklist you were using?

    It's not that I'm not sympathetic. It sucks big time to be playing against control and be going through the motions of your inevitable loss. That's why I can only stomach playing decks that win early or probably not at all - mono-blue tempo, mono-red aggro. The solution isn't to ban control, though. It's not unbeatable, it just looks like it is.
    Last edited by Silfir; 2019-09-24 at 04:34 AM.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    It's not that I'm not sympathetic. It sucks big time to be playing against control and be going through the motions of your inevitable loss. That's why I can only stomach playing decks that win early or probably not at all - mono-blue tempo, mono-red aggro. The solution isn't to ban control, though. It's not unbeatable, it just looks like it is.
    The other thing that makes playing against control better is realising when the game is a lost cause and conceding. Itíll be better for your own entertainment (or give more time for game 2/3 if your playing bo3)
    Last edited by Androgeus; 2019-09-24 at 04:38 AM.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    I have honestly calmed down a bit. Also good to know that non-standard has some limits.

    As for specific cards... I guess I'm not really sure. The main shutdown happened mainly from two planeswalkers(Teferi, Hero of Dominaria and Narset Parter of Veils[which seemed to be more of a stall until Teferi built up counters, along with making dying from decking out painfully slow. So not nearly as frustrating as a solo card]), which left me in a state where any lands I had got auto-destroyed, leaving me with only one drops with haste as an option(which got delayed/destroyed/countered enough to have the match last until I ran out of cards).
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Yea. No-win condition control and/or prison is pretty rough to play against when it goes well for them. As I'm sure you might have realized by now, you lost that game 20+ turns before decking. This style of deck building is always going to be present, but how good it is varies on how many answers you can realistically have that broadly answer every deck type. I personally like when control players are playing things like Aetherling just so that they can actually kill me.

    In my experience, conceding matches that you're a) incredibly (varies, but usually 95+%) unlikely to win, or b) not having fun with anymore really helps to increase both how much fun I have with magic and how much magic I actually play.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Togath, your signature is messed up; you misplaced a quotation mark into the italic-tag's BBCode.

    ION: I really wish MTG:Arena had a way to share a video of a match without having to know in advance that it would be a match you want to share.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    In general, if Teferi gets his emblem then either you win very quickly or you lose. If you get down to nothing on the board and too few lands left to finish it, just concede. At that point you've effectively already lost and are just wasting time. Even if you have enough cards in your library that your opponent would deck out first, he has the tools to prevent that from happening - Teferi can target himself with his -3 ability, allowing cycling that card through each turn's draw indefinitely.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    To be fair those deck you out control decks are only really a thing in standard.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Yea, that -3 to prevent decking is pretty rough. I was playing a control mirror in RNA standard. My deck had 4x veto and actual win conditions (1 Chromium; 2x Doom Whisperer; 2x Eldest Reborn; 1 Kaya, Orzhov Usurper; and 2x Memorial to Folly). My opponent had gone through all 4 Thought Erasure and 4 Veto, whereas I had two Veto after the initial get to 10 lands section of the game. All I had to do was let my opponent draw their deck and counter/kill all 4 of my opponent's Teferi's once they were down to no cards in deck.

    It was easily one of the most satisfying wins I've had in a g1 of a control mirror in years. They actual had a main deck Unmoored Ego naming my Teferi's, so my plan to win was basically on board from t3.

    Have a plan to kill your opponent that doesn't involve decking in your control deck.
    Last edited by Techwarrior; 2019-09-24 at 01:02 PM.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    In general, if Teferi gets his emblem then either you win very quickly or you lose. If you get down to nothing on the board and too few lands left to finish it, just concede. At that point you've effectively already lost and are just wasting time. Even if you have enough cards in your library that your opponent would deck out first, he has the tools to prevent that from happening - Teferi can target himself with his -3 ability, allowing cycling that card through each turn's draw indefinitely.
    It was a really annoying deck to face though, I didn't want to give them the satisfaction of an easy concede.
    Like, if someone's going to do a deck like that, surely they could add in, like, a creature so they can win by getting my health to zero, rather than just waiting for a concedes/slowest possible deck-out. Plus if someone doesn't concede, then it takes 30+ minutes to win.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    It was a really annoying deck to face though, I didn't want to give them the satisfaction of an easy concede.
    Like, if someone's going to do a deck like that, surely they could add in, like, a creature so they can win by getting my health to zero, rather than just waiting for a concedes/slowest possible deck-out. Plus if someone doesn't concede, then it takes 30+ minutes to win.
    Well that's all right, but then you don't get to complain about sitting there for thirty minutes waiting to lose. Concede or don't, but if you decide not to concede, don't complain that your time is being wasted. You're doing the wasting.

    You have to understand that no control deck will ever put in more threats than it needs to win. Doing so would make their deck worse. That's just not a realistic expectation to have.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    I didn't want to give them the satisfaction of an easy concede.
    I actually find it more satisfying for a plan to come together so I actually feel like I earned the win, rather than my opponent conceding before I get the chance.

    ...Obviously, I don't play Control decks.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2019-09-24 at 05:41 PM.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    I actually find it more satisfying for a plan to come together so I actually feel like I earned the win, rather than my opponent conceding before I get the chance.

    ...Obviously, I don't play Control decks.
    I mean control decks effectively stalling the game is their plan coming together, you conceding once you have no realistic path to victory is just you saving yourself time.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    I mean control decks effectively stalling the game is their plan coming together, you conceding once you have no realistic path to victory is just you saving yourself time.
    Right, but I mean concessions feel less satisfying to me personally.

    It's an entirely separate issue and one that I've complained about before.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2019-09-24 at 05:56 PM.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Eh, I generally don't concede in general. Plus if the guy wasn't prepared for the chance someone might not concede, then he should've played a different deck.

    On a different note... Cavalcade of Calamity; how good is it? I've seen a lot of red decks use it, but it also seems like several have some major issues if they don't draw it early(though this is less common in non-mono-red decks, it seems like?).
    I've been pondering trying it in a goblin deck I'm working on, which is what brought the thought up.
    Last edited by Togath; 2019-09-25 at 05:46 AM.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    I only think I've seen it once. Also, on the subject of control, in Bo3 there is a chess-clock type feature that gives each player a maximum of 30 minutes 0f play time a cross all games. I recently played a game where game 1 I lost to control, but it took up over half my opponent's time and they conceded immediately
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    Eh, I generally don't concede in general. Plus if the guy wasn't prepared for the chance someone might not concede, then he should've played a different deck.
    If you don't want to concede that's fine, just don't complain that the other deck takes ages to kill you.

    They are prepared for the possibility that you might not concede, that just means they have to play it out, which you have experienced that they are willing to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Personification View Post
    I only think I've seen it once. Also, on the subject of control, in Bo3 there is a chess-clock type feature that gives each player a maximum of 30 minutes 0f play time a cross all games. I recently played a game where game 1 I lost to control, but it took up over half my opponent's time and they conceded immediately
    That seems horrible.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    The rotation happened, but I can't play Historic for some reason.

    EDIT: The reason is that it isn't launching until November. Guess I'll just be playing bot matches (And possibly direct challenge) throughout October.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2019-09-25 at 09:35 AM.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    The rotation happened, but I can't play Historic for some reason.

    EDIT: The reason is that it isn't launching until November. Guess I'll just be playing bot matches (And possibly direct challenge) throughout October.
    Are you sure? Still says 8 hours left on my end.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Personification View Post
    I only think I've seen it once. Also, on the subject of control, in Bo3 there is a chess-clock type feature that gives each player a maximum of 30 minutes 0f play time a cross all games. I recently played a game where game 1 I lost to control, but it took up over half my opponent's time and they conceded immediately
    This is another reason not to play decks that rely on your opponent conceding/taking 30 minutes to deck out. Nice! ^w^
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    Are you sure? Still says 8 hours left on my end.
    It turns out the problem is basically opposite what I thought: I somehow added a card to the deck which isn't in Standard yet.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    That is... weird. 0_0

    What card was it? Now I'm curious.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    That is... weird. 0_0

    What card was it? Now I'm curious.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Huh, that IS weird. Looking him up though, he seems like a neat card. Sort of a mill/self-mill/burn combo.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Spoiler: Really weird sorta-combo-ish decklist I've been using in RAnked, and will use in Historic once that exists
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    1 District Guide
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    It's been surprisingly good.

    Cards are listed in the order Arena exported them in.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2019-09-25 at 09:19 PM.
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    I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm.
    Explanation here.

  28. - Top - End - #358
    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Anyone see this epically silly MTG ad that was put out today?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgQrZR14GEo
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggling Ghast View Post
    Anyone see this epically silly MTG ad that was put out today?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgQrZR14GEo
    That was awesomely retro-cheesy! :3

    Also, Arena thing... does the "play any deck" thing have any rewards? Or is that only the next stage that does?
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    That was awesomely retro-cheesy! :3

    Also, Arena thing... does the "play any deck" thing have any rewards? Or is that only the next stage that does?
    I havenít seen any rewards, after winning a few games. I guess weíre supposed to be warming up for the next part.
    Awesome OOTS-style Fallout New Vegas avatar by Ceika.

    Casual Magic Arena and Raid Shadow Legends player. But I'll talk about anything really.

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