Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chandras!

[Androgeus]

That's basically it. Mostly bounce spells, but also that "animated Go-Pharaoh's Statue + Helm of the Host" combo I mentioned earlier. While it isn't really "control-ish" like the bounce spells themselves are, I have 4 copies of Eyes Everywhere and will often trade them to my opponent then bounce them back into my hand to do it all over again.

Like I said, it's only sort of Control.Historic.

I feel the term you’re looking for is tempo, probably tempo-combo.

[enderlord99]

I feel the term you’re looking for is tempo, probably tempo-combo.

That sounds accurate...

EDIT: It is indeed accurate.

[Karnitis]

General question, what qualifies as a creature-focused deck?

I've made 4 decks, all medium power of 4-6. Even though I feel they are diverse (Rakdos, Ezuri, Kambal, Pramikon), the main wincon in 3/4 is through combat damage. I wouldn't feel bad except I've read Competitive threads that tell me combat-step dmg is the definition of an casual deck, and a lot of top tier decks can have less than 5 creatures which seems crazy to me.

The decks are all different (Rakdos cheats creatures, Ezuri is +1/+1s , and Pramikon is control/fliers) but they all rely on creatures to win. Is that inherently amateur, or is that comment mostly in regards to stompy/goodstuff decks?

[Techwarrior]

In my experience, if your deck is 'focused' around something, you need at least 20-30 cards that qualify.

You almost certainly run about 45-55 Mana sources in almost every deck. If you factor in that you probably need at least 5 removal, 5 wipes, and 10 sources of card advantage that leaves very little that isn't your focus. So that leaves about the rest of your deck as your focus.

[Eurus]

General question, what qualifies as a creature-focused deck?

I've made 4 decks, all medium power of 4-6. Even though I feel they are diverse (Rakdos, Ezuri, Kambal, Pramikon), the main wincon in 3/4 is through combat damage. I wouldn't feel bad except I've read Competitive threads that tell me combat-step dmg is the definition of an casual deck, and a lot of top tier decks can have less than 5 creatures which seems crazy to me.

The decks are all different (Rakdos cheats creatures, Ezuri is +1/+1s , and Pramikon is control/fliers) but they all rely on creatures to win. Is that inherently amateur, or is that comment mostly in regards to stompy/goodstuff decks?

Creature-based damage is fine in 1v1 games, but much harder to pull off in multiplayer. You end up dividing the same number of creatures by more players, and they're all throwing around board wipes. In multiplayer EDH, combo win conditions are the best because they typically let you kill everyone else at the same time. That being said, a combo finisher can totally end up killing three people with combat phase damage if it pumps an absurd number of tokens into play or takes infinite combat phases or something.

[Ninjaman]

General question, what qualifies as a creature-focused deck?

I've made 4 decks, all medium power of 4-6. Even though I feel they are diverse (Rakdos, Ezuri, Kambal, Pramikon), the main wincon in 3/4 is through combat damage. I wouldn't feel bad except I've read Competitive threads that tell me combat-step dmg is the definition of an casual deck, and a lot of top tier decks can have less than 5 creatures which seems crazy to me.

The decks are all different (Rakdos cheats creatures, Ezuri is +1/+1s , and Pramikon is control/fliers) but they all rely on creatures to win. Is that inherently amateur, or is that comment mostly in regards to stompy/goodstuff decks?

Be aware that very few people actually play competitive EDH, most people play casual EDH, so unlike most other formats you shouldn't build to be competitive.
The thing to keep in mind is that you need to deal 40 damage to three players instead of 20 damage to one player. This means you shouldn't be playing big dumb creatures, because very few big dumb creatures are actually big and dumb enough. Play value creatures, or fill the board with tokens. Something like Avenger of Zendikar can win on its own, stuff like Craterhoof Behemoth can kill quickly too. Look for those kind of effects.

[Fable Wright]

My best EDH deck is a deck that wins through combat damage. Sometimes.

The threat of stealing an early win through Commander damage with Doran and equipment lets me develop a boardstate that becomes reminiscent of Modern Jund—force a topdeck war that you can't lose.

(Usually obtained, for me, via a combination of tutored creatures. One creature tutor grabs Eternal Witness, who recycles the tutor and then fetch Knight of the Reliquary, who brings out Phyrexian Tower and Volrath's Stronghold for always having an E-Witness in a safe board state. Between reusable tutors, Crucible of Worlds, Buried Ruin, and other value creatures to constantly cycle like Yosei, and recyclers like Genesis, it's an incredibly redundant engine with multiple win-cons and ways to reassemble a winning board. This redundant late-game engine lets me focus my deck on interaction and creature pressure.)

A good litmus test of whether or not you're creature focused to the extent where it's strictly casual—

Can you win through a pillow fort without relying on Austere Command/Merciless Eviction/Cyclonic Rift? If so, you're good. Otherwise, you're a bit too creature-focused.

[Tom the Mime]

So, I thought this is one of the better places to check if there would be enough people interested in a revival of Vanishing 3 Card Blind. I've checked with TiaC (the original thread starter for the game in oots) and they're okay with me starting up another thread. Looking towards having a rotating judge every 5 or so to spread the load a bit and allow everyone to play.

Other Information:
Old thread
Second old Thread
Example of Play

Feel free to see if you can get anyone else interested. I'll probably start it if we can get 7 or more to begin with - it can run with less but if we only start with that many and people drop off, the thread will die real quick. If you have any suggestions for where to post this to get some more people, let me know.

[Ninjaman]

I might be up for it. Are we starting over?

[Tom the Mime]

If most of the people interested wanted to stay over, I'd be okay with that but I'd be cautious because, even with meta decisions, a lot of the good early decks would have a link to them and it might just rehash the early rounds. I was thinking that for two rounds of every 5, the winner could choose a single card to unban (and it can only be unbanned once) to throw in some of the earlier cards.

Although some of the early rounds might change up more without vanguard avatars (except for maybe a special round).

[Emmerlaus]

Does people here play Oathbreaker or do they think its a dead format?

[PhyrexianShovel]

Does people here play Oathbreaker or do they think its a dead format?

I have two Oathbreaker decks but rarely play anymore, mostly since the only friend I have that plays it plays Narset Stax.

[ImperiousLeader]

Does people here play Oathbreaker or do they think its a dead format?

Of the stores I frequent, there are Oathbreaker nights. I built a deck, am brewing another one, but haven't had the chance to try them in the field.

It's still a niche format, but I don't think it's dead.

Speaking of which ... has the brawl precons brought brawl back, or did everyone just buy the decks to make new EDH decks like I did?

[Ninjaman]

If most of the people interested wanted to stay over, I'd be okay with that but I'd be cautious because, even with meta decisions, a lot of the good early decks would have a link to them and it might just rehash the early rounds. I was thinking that for two rounds of every 5, the winner could choose a single card to unban (and it can only be unbanned once) to throw in some of the earlier cards.

Although some of the early rounds might change up more without vanguard avatars (except for maybe a special round).

I'd very much prefer to start over, everything else feels wrong after all this time.
I'd be strongly in favor of no vanguard avatars/planes.
I'm not sure how I feel about unbanning cards.

Are we still saying that storage lands can't be banned?

[noob]

Are we still saying that storage lands can't be banned?

I do not see storage lands as being very useful outside of proliferation decks.

[Eurus]

I'd prefer to see ban lists grow organically, personally. Even if it's busted it'll only win once. Anyway I'd be interested and would prefer starting over.

[Ninjaman]

I do not see storage lands as being very useful outside of proliferation decks.

They allow people to actually play cards that cost more than one mana as the banlist grows.

[Emmerlaus]

Ok, Oathbreaker question again:

Does a swarm aggro deck work in Oathbreaker from your experience?

I made a suck a deck myself and I was wondering if it works. Was planning to shut down the other decks this way...

Seemed like a good option against Narset deck... I was planning a Nissa, Steward of Elements with Invigorate, with lots of small drop, especially fliers and unblokable infects

[Eurus]

They allow people to actually play cards that cost more than one mana as the banlist grows.

This is true, as mana sources get banned out they might become valuable, but on the other hand they're extremely vulnerable to disruption. I can see them working in some cases, but it'll take a while to get there.

[Tom the Mime]

This is true, as mana sources get banned out they might become valuable, but on the other hand they're extremely vulnerable to disruption. I can see them working in some cases, but it'll take a while to get there.

20 or so rounds last time before they were somewhat competitive even if they weren't at the top, and that was with specific cards with flashback to get around the discard (easy land destruction was gone by that stage).

Edit: A thread is up if people are interested.

[Ninjaman]

This is true, as mana sources get banned out they might become valuable, but on the other hand they're extremely vulnerable to disruption. I can see them working in some cases, but it'll take a while to get there.

The point isn't that they are amazing, but that they allow you a ton more options just by always being legal.

[noob]

They allow people to actually play cards that cost more than one mana as the banlist grows.

So you mean that literally all the other lands will be banned and that people will have to do with only opal mox?
Or do people play with so many permanent destroyers that the table is cleared at the end of each turn(and that somehow the players can protect their storage lands)?

[Ninjaman]

So you mean that literally all the other lands will be banned and that people will have to do with only opal mox?
Or do people play with so many permanent destroyers that the table is cleared at the end of each turn?

In three card blind your entire deck is three cards which you start with on your hand.

[noob]

In three card blind your entire deck is three cards which you start with on your hand.

So it would allow a deck like "mountain + 2 2/2 goblins"(the legendary one and a goblin guide).

[Ninjaman]

So it would allow a deck like "mountain + 2 2/2 goblins"(the legendary one and a goblin guide).

Yes, exactly.

But with the storage lands you can also make decks that play more expensive cards even after fast mana has been banned.

[noob]

Yes, exactly.

But with the storage lands you can also make decks that play more expensive cards even after fast mana has been banned.

So would "Kharn card fetcher(that can fetch from out of the game) + storage land + 0 cost wall" work correctly?
It seems it would take a bunch of attacks from the 2 goblin deck until it can fetch a second wall then it would be guaranteed victory.
Can I see more decks based on storage lands that works fine against the double goblin deck?

[mythmonster2]

So, a new format just got announced: Pioneer. Return to Ravnica onwards, with only fetchlands on the starting banlist. This is gonna be interesting: Sphinx's Revelation, Thoughtsieze, Dig through Time and Treasure Cruise, Siege Rhino, Gideon Ally, Emrakul, copycat combo, Energy, Smugglers Copter, Hazoret and Ramunap, Teferi, and then everything we've got in Standard, Oko and Field of the Dead top among them. Quite interested to see how this goes.

Also, Field banned in standard, I welcome my new Oko overlords

[GAAD]

Ding Dong the Field is Dead!

Sheesh though who else thinks Oko's gonna be banned next set?

[Ninjaman]

Pioneer actually looks surprisingly good.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I'm more surprised that Oko Thief of Crowns (who am I kidding, nobody cares about 6 mana Oko) got through playtesting. The Field of the Dead problem was due to all the other cards that supported it (Golos, land searchers in general), while Oko ToC is just strong on his own.

He can drop on turn 2 with 6 loyalty. He can steal small creatures and nerf big ones, or just ones that depend on card text. He can even turn his own food tokens into elk if the game goes long. There's nothing inherently wrong with any of his abilities; it's just his numbers that are out of whack. Pick one: mana cost, starting loyalty, loyalty cost of abilities.

The only thing he doesn't work well against is a creature that stacks +1/+1 counters. Elking such a creature will likely increase their stats; I've had this happen to me before.

We'll see how the meta reacts though.