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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    I mean, it certainly isn't an aggro card, is it? Likewise, what could possibly combo with Mind Rot?
    that enchant that deals damage every time you discard? I mean, its not a GOOD combo...

    Also,

    If it said Lighting Command: Deal 4 damage to opponent and they discard two, it would be accomplishing the same thing. Emptying the opponents hand while progressing damage.
    Except as a creature it runs into some additional issues, like getting damage reduced by chumpblockers, doing nothing to first strike, dying to 1 point of damage, needing to pay more to bypass wall effects, being useless if 'enters play tapped' effects are up, etc.

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    I just had the most AMAZING time in (ranked) Draft M20. I don't have any comparison and I don't know if my deck pulled me through but I did 7-2 with a RB deck (my first experience was a weird UB fliers).

    I had the following:
    3 Scorch Spitter
    3 Maniacal Rage (quickly removed them)
    1 Shock
    2 Lavakin Brawler
    3 Goblin Smuggler
    1 Act of Treason (good lord does it feel satisfying sacrificing the treasoned creature with Bone Splinters though I actually targetted the Unholy Indenture as a combo piece)
    2 Bone Splinters
    1 Sanatorium Skeleton
    2 Bladebrand
    2 Bloodburglar
    3 Barony Vampire
    3 Unholy Indenture
    2 Mind Rot (removed)
    1 Fathom Fleet Cutthroat


    there were no actual winners but all of these flew under the radar until it was too late and I could smuggle in 1-2 Scorch Spitters or a Lavakin Brawler. Part of the success was probably Bronze since I got pretty hosed by combat tricks IF they had any.

    So please teach me a bit. I feel like I took a toddler's candy away with this Rakdos approach.

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    How is Act of Treason a combo piece with Unholy Indenture?
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  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    How is Act of Treason a combo piece with Unholy Indenture?
    Take over, Enchant, Sacrifice. What I neglected was that the game with an aggro deck is over by the time I got 7 seven lands. And I dont get to 7 mana if I have almost no card draw.

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun View Post
    There's literally a deck built around it seeing some play in Modern at the moment. And it's based on Blightning, which is itself definitely a quintessential midrange card.
    I googled "modern lightning skelemental" and couldn't really find anything.

    I'm sure there are some homebrews playing it, possibly even a fringe deck, but I fail to see how seeing play in a fringe deck makes it "a quintessential midrange card"

    Blightning was only a quintessential midrange card in standard Jund. It sees no play in modern Jund.

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    I mean, it certainly isn't an aggro card, is it? Likewise, what could possibly combo with Mind Rot?
    Hand disruption is typically more of a midrange strategy.
    The cards that see play that are most comparable to Mind Rot are Wrench Mind in modern and Hymn to Tourach in Legacy.
    Wrench mind sees play only in 8-rack, which is a kind of combo deck, a tempo deck, or possibly a prison deck.
    In legacy it sees some play in mono black, and some delver variants, (though mostly back when Deathrite Shaman was legal), both of those decks are tempo/midrange decks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    If it said Lighting Command: Deal 4 damage to opponent and they discard two, it would be accomplishing the same thing. Emptying the opponents hand while progressing damage.
    First of, Lightning Skelemental deals 6, not 4.
    Second of, Blightning is not a control card. The one deck that played it was a Jund deck in alara standard, which was a midrange deck. Control decks don't want to play Blightning, and they don't want to play Lightning Skelemental.

    Control decks don't care about your life total until they have already won. Mind rot is not a good magic card, certainly not with a more restrictive mana cost. Adding 6 damage to it, something a control deck doesn't care about, doesn't make it a control card.
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  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Kinda wish I was going to Gen Con. I'm optimistic that Commander 2019 will be better than last year, and it'd be cool to go to one of those preview panels.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    I googled "modern lightning skelemental" and couldn't really find anything.

    I'm sure there are some homebrews playing it, possibly even a fringe deck, but I fail to see how seeing play in a fringe deck makes it "a quintessential midrange card"

    Blightning was only a quintessential midrange card in standard Jund. It sees no play in modern Jund.


    Hand disruption is typically more of a midrange strategy.
    The cards that see play that are most comparable to Mind Rot are Wrench Mind in modern and Hymn to Tourach in Legacy.
    Wrench mind sees play only in 8-rack, which is a kind of combo deck, a tempo deck, or possibly a prison deck.
    In legacy it sees some play in mono black, and some delver variants, (though mostly back when Deathrite Shaman was legal), both of those decks are tempo/midrange decks.


    First of, Lightning Skelemental deals 6, not 4.
    Second of, Blightning is not a control card. The one deck that played it was a Jund deck in alara standard, which was a midrange deck. Control decks don't want to play Blightning, and they don't want to play Lightning Skelemental.

    Control decks don't care about your life total until they have already won. Mind rot is not a good magic card, certainly not with a more restrictive mana cost. Adding 6 damage to it, something a control deck doesn't care about, doesn't make it a control card.
    There is a 2 mana elemental that returns elementals to the battlefield and haste haste, there are some attempts to combo ball lighting, thunder awakener, unearth and lightning skelemental for repeating discard and damage.

    Hymn to tourach, kolagans command and inquisition of kozilek all see play in legacy Grixis control. The Deck used Mindtwist, discard and control are not anathema to each other.

    I'll admit what I am thinking of is closer to a midrange deck along the lines of Mardi Pyromancer but with a combo finish. Being able to use whip to return value creatures to the battlefield was why I liked the idea.
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  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    Take over, Enchant, Sacrifice. What I neglected was that the game with an aggro deck is over by the time I got 7 seven lands. And I dont get to 7 mana if I have almost no card draw.
    While you can't sacrifice without taking control, you don't need it to play Unholy Indenture on an opponent's creature. You'd have to find another way to kill the target, but there are plenty of those.
    Last edited by Douglas; 2019-07-31 at 08:08 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Ball Lightning Tribal is an archetype some people think is playable in Modern. Not sure if it's good, but it is kind of sweet, and Skelemental is a surprisingly effective card in some matchups. The deck is really built around Thunderkin Awakener and Unearth synergizing with a lot of other pieces to be a weird kind of fast disruptive deck.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Hymn to tourach, kolagans command and inquisition of kozilek all see play in legacy Grixis control. The Deck used Mindtwist, discard and control are not anathema to each other.
    I didn't say it couldn't see play in control, I said it was more of a midrange strategy, which it is. Also, Kolagan's command isn't really a discard spell.
    Legacy control decks are also much faster than standard and modern control decks, which is why discard becomes better.

    I'll admit what I am thinking of is closer to a midrange deck along the lines of Mardi Pyromancer but with a combo finish. Being able to use whip to return value creatures to the battlefield was why I liked the idea.
    Yes, it sounds like a midrange/combo deck, and for that Lightning Skelemental might be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Ball Lightning Tribal is an archetype some people think is playable in Modern. Not sure if it's good, but it is kind of sweet, and Skelemental is a surprisingly effective card in some matchups. The deck is really built around Thunderkin Awakener and Unearth synergizing with a lot of other pieces to be a weird kind of fast disruptive deck.
    That is pretty cool, but also the definition of fringe, so I stand by Lightning Skelemental not being a "quintisential midrange card", especially since that deck isn't even midrange.

    Also I will eternally hate the creator of that deck for not calling it 8-ball.
    Last edited by Ninjaman; 2019-08-01 at 03:58 AM.
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  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    While you can't sacrifice without taking control, you don't need it to play Unholy Indenture on an opponent's creature. You'd have to find another way to kill the target, but there are plenty of those.

    Yup, but I had not enough Acts of Treason for that to work consistently and I could not take a turn "doing nothing but buffing my enemy" because of the aggressive nature of my list.

    Bad case scenario: My opponent gets the Tempo back.
    Worse case: My opponent forces me into trading his enchanted creature off.
    Worst case: My opponent attacks for free, then sacrifices his creature for great benefit.


    Okay I COMPLETELY missed the point of the card. You can steal huge things off of your enemy.

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Yeah, I missed that the first few times I read the card too. It can go on anyone's creature, and always brings it back as your creature regardless. I think I only noticed that when I saw your post, checked the card on gatherer, and saw the second ruling on it: "You control the returned creature, regardless of who controlled it before it died." I did a minor double take and rechecked the text, only then noticing that it says only "Enchant creature", not "Enchant creature you control".

    Still need to combo it with a way to kill the creature, but as I said there are a lot of those. I suspect there's a pretty good chance your opponent will even do it for you, mistakenly thinking it will come back under their control.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    I suspect there's a pretty good chance your opponent will even do it for you, mistakenly thinking it will come back under their control.
    No. Never rely on your opponent to make a mistake, especially not one like this which is relatively obvious.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    No. Never rely on your opponent to make a mistake, especially not one like this which is relatively obvious.
    ...unless it's your only out. Your opponent punting can sometimes win you games you're not supposed to win.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    That is pretty cool, but also the definition of fringe, so I stand by Lightning Skelemental not being a "quintisential midrange card", especially since that deck isn't even midrange.

    Also I will eternally hate the creator of that deck for not calling it 8-ball.
    I mean, Modern is made up of weird OP fringe decks. Phoenix, Spirits, Humans and Death's Shadow are all weird ass decks that turned out to be really good. Hollow One went from fringe to good to fringe again in short order, fringe and competitive is a narrow line in Modern modernly.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    No. Never rely on your opponent to make a mistake, especially not one like this which is relatively obvious.
    Yes, you shouldn't rely on it, but setting up the possibility when it doesn't cost you anything meaningful can be useful. For example, play Unholy Indenture on something you want to steal, pass turn, wait for the last possible moment you want to steal it by, and only then hit it with Murder. If your opponent sacrifices it to cast Bone Splinters, you get your stolen creature and can save the Murder for something else. If not, just cast Murder as you originally planned.

    Or, as Shadow of the Sun mentioned, if you're going to lose unless your opponent screws up, then providing the opportunity for such a screwup almost can't cost anything meaningful, so why not?
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    C19 is off to a decent start.



    Given the uproar over the poor reprints in C18, they have responded. Seedborn Muse is getting a reprint, and each deck is getting a reprinted Planeswalker.

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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Commander19 have good ideas for COmmander yes... Each their own clear mecanics. Perfect for newcomers.

    I wish I could have the decklist already... My favorite is teh Populate one and the Flashback one.

    I always wanted a Pillowfort//token deck with white/red/green color. This deck might be what I was looking for. I know Im dreaming thinking that but if they put a reprint of Doubling Season in the Populate deck, Im buying it lol! It will be worth my money just for that card alone. But their is way more chance for it to have Parralel Lives and Annointed Procession instead. If the tokens made are all animals, I might buy it to one of my animal-loving friend for her birthday instead. I have enough decks as it is haha!

    The Flashback one seem tempting for me too... But graveyard hate is very common to and so many people have cards to counter it. Its just too powerful to have access throught your whole library from your graveyard. This one however doesnt have the black color, its a nice surprise. I'll be interested in watching decktech videos about this commander

    Im not very fond of the other two. Animar soul of elements decks already found a niche for Morph decks in my book. And the Madness one probably is going to be OP. I never liked vampires to be honestas well ... Those two decks are just not made for me.
    Last edited by Emmerlaus; 2019-08-02 at 04:45 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Faceless Menance is most likely the first magic product I'll buy in recent times. I have a soft spot for morph. Madness is cool, but I am not fond of vampires myself.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Everyone likes the Treasure Token event until I drop two Mayhem Devils *maniacal laughter*

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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    I think they missed a ban for this event - Karn, the Great Creator. It may not completely negate the event's emblem, but it's pretty damn close. Narset's banned in Giant Monsters, Lavinia's banned in Cascade, and Karn, the Great Creator should be banned in Treasures.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    "NSFW" and "OSHA Violation" mean basically the same thing... especially to Rakdos cultists.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Can someone give me the "real world" explanation of drawing mana, or BS me a reason if there isn't one?

    So I love digging deep into magic systems and I was thinking about mtg last night. It's been stated the player is a planeswalker, which is a good premise. Loyalty makes sense with other planeswalkers, as a measure of their loyalty to fight with you before porting away.

    Life = physical health seems clear. Or, using D&D logic, it's more like "luck/skill dodging blows." You aren't necessarily maimed at 2 LP, but at 0 it's a killing blow regardless.

    Although your deck is called a library (and cards are spells) I see your deck like 'mental health.' I play a good amount of Dimir mill, and many many mills refer to attacking the mind. So I would see milling someone as an ESP attack making them comatose. Physically fine, but unconscious/unable to fight back.

    So that got me thinking about drawing mana specifically. I know the idea is, the PW draws mana from the natural life around them, which is why all mana are landscapes. But, assuming all the above is accepted as fact, what does it mean to "draw" mana? Does the PW gain access to other lands, or is mana viewed more like a spell so they are "casting a spell" to draw mana forth? If we were just talking about a PW being able to wave a hand and get magic from the ground beneath them, it doesn't make sense they wouldn't be able to do it all at once, compared to waiting to draw (find) the right card (spell). Thoughts?

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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Karnitis View Post
    Can someone give me the "real world" explanation of drawing mana, or BS me a reason if there isn't one?

    So I love digging deep into magic systems and I was thinking about mtg last night. It's been stated the player is a planeswalker, which is a good premise. Loyalty makes sense with other planeswalkers, as a measure of their loyalty to fight with you before porting away.

    Life = physical health seems clear. Or, using D&D logic, it's more like "luck/skill dodging blows." You aren't necessarily maimed at 2 LP, but at 0 it's a killing blow regardless.

    Although your deck is called a library (and cards are spells) I see your deck like 'mental health.' I play a good amount of Dimir mill, and many many mills refer to attacking the mind. So I would see milling someone as an ESP attack making them comatose. Physically fine, but unconscious/unable to fight back.

    So that got me thinking about drawing mana specifically. I know the idea is, the PW draws mana from the natural life around them, which is why all mana are landscapes. But, assuming all the above is accepted as fact, what does it mean to "draw" mana? Does the PW gain access to other lands, or is mana viewed more like a spell so they are "casting a spell" to draw mana forth? If we were just talking about a PW being able to wave a hand and get magic from the ground beneath them, it doesn't make sense they wouldn't be able to do it all at once, compared to waiting to draw (find) the right card (spell). Thoughts?
    The actual act of drawing a Land card is going out to find those mana sources, I feel. You drew a forest from the deck? That's you finding a forest in your travels and attaching it to yourself as a mana bond. The library is your brain and your cards are your thoughts, so you're just thinking of that cool tree on Zendikar you like.

    The way mana bonds work is that it has to specifically "connect" with you. You can't just pull in mana from any old puddle, and if you DID it would be at best temporary and insufficient. You need to draw it from that cool water fountain in town you really like, or that old gnarled tree growing around a bicycle that made you feel like everything was okay. Also, you can't just put all your lands out into play as once, likewise you can't draw power from a source all at once. That'd mess up the place, and also you.


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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    I like that explanation a lot, and it makes sense to me. Blue is all about knowledge, which is why they are able to draw more (think faster). Green loves mana, because they are all about nature and can form those connections with trees and puddles easier than others.

    That said, what does that say about White that they don't have access to draw abilities or mana creatures...

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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Karnitis View Post
    I like that explanation a lot, and it makes sense to me. Blue is all about knowledge, which is why they are able to draw more (think faster). Green loves mana, because they are all about nature and can form those connections with trees and puddles easier than others.

    That said, what does that say about White that they don't have access to draw abilities or mana creatures...
    They're more about community. Planning carefully and consistently, if slowly. Can't think deep thoughts when overburdened by rules. But Blue has a frail body, unless it's thinking about sea serpents, whereas White's always thinking about all it's many friends.
    Last edited by LaZodiac; 2019-08-06 at 12:15 PM.


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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

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    Shortly after the War of the Spark, a Rakdos cultist overhears a few surviving planeswalkers discussing linguistics for some reason; one of those 'walkers was probably Jace. The cultist hears that the Therosan plural for "octopus" is "octopodes" and that it was also, coincidentally, the generally-accepted word for that purpose among the more scientifically-minded populace here on Ravnica.

    The cultist immediately comes up with a way to use this fact. He searches for a specific situation to take advantage of: a member of the Simic Combine standing near a small grove of pecan trees the Selesnya had planted a few years back. He sees exactly that, so he struts up and asks: "Do you know what the plural of 'octopus' is?"

    "Of course I do!" came the reply.

    "Did you know that the technical term for this tree right here is a 'bofus' then?"

    "No it isn't!" the biomancer exclaimed. "It's just a pecan tree!"

    The cultist pressed: "No really. This tree is a bofus, this grove is a bunch of bofodes, and these" he concluded, picking up a handful of pecans off the ground...

    "...are....

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    "BOFODES NUTS!


    That punchline was probably obvious.

    ION: Does anyone know a commander-legal way to make another player's lands all count as creatures? Preferably continuously, and preferably in Jund (though Dune-Brood also works)

    EDIT: It seems Nature's Revolt work.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2019-08-10 at 08:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    What do people think are the strongest untapped cards in modern?

    Personally I think scheming symmetry, mox amber and counterbalance are the ones just waiting to break. Symmetry seems extraordinarily powerful, it just hasn't found a home yet.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Symmetry seems extraordinarily powerful, it just hasn't found a home yet.
    Seems kind of narrow where it would be good to me. You need some way to negate your opponent getting value from it first. So you need to either to draw it straight away and use it (most likely comboing off), or a something like Lantern Control where you can control the top of their deck (this seems a bit paradoxical though, as you’d need Symmetry before you have built the lock, but it works best after the lock has been built)

    This ignores two headed giant where the card is just dumb good. Also two headed giant modern sounds fun.

    Also I already dislike the card as I was playing EDH and some one gave the other tutor to the player that was already in the lead. I still don’t understand why.
    Last edited by Androgeus; 2019-08-15 at 03:40 AM.

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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    What do people think are the strongest untapped cards in modern?

    Personally I think scheming symmetry, mox amber and counterbalance are the ones just waiting to break. Symmetry seems extraordinarily powerful, it just hasn't found a home yet.
    I think the word you're looking for is sleeper.

    Counter Balance was only ever good because of Sensei's Divining Top. This can be seen in Legacy where it was the best deck in the format, then top got banned, and people have tried without success to find a replacement for it.
    Wizards are aware of the card, so they're probably not printing something that breaks it, though I'm not gonna rule out something that might actually make it playable, but I doubt it.

    Mox Amber's restriction is just super rough. I don't think it's good enough to warrant the hoops you have to go through to enable it.

    Scheming Symmetry is very recent, and on a lot of peoples radars. People are talking about it in mill and lantern in modern, though mill is a bit more fringe, and Urza has kind of taken lantern's spot. If it's gonna end up not seeing play it's gonna be because it's not good enough. Can it then see play somewhere down the line? It's possible, but I'm not sure what better home it could get.


    It keeps being said, but goblins have to become playable at some point with how much they are printing/reprinting for them, so there's at least 10 sleeper cards right there.

    Porphyry Nodes is also a really strong card that I would not be surprised if suddenly saw a lot more play.
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