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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Thumbs up Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vizzerdrix View Post
    I am very familiar with skiurids. One of my favorite monsters (right up there with rust monsters). I'm still looking for some way to get one as a familiar.
    Well, DMs do have some leeway with Improved familiars. I'd probably allow a Skiurid at my table.

    Quote Originally Posted by DMG p.201
    The list in the table above presents only a few possible improved familiars. Almost any creature of the same general size and power as those on the list makes a suitable familiar.

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    I think it refers to the Word Given Form feat (ToM p.218): gives you 50% miss chance vs. creature that is the target of your Dodge feat. Pretty hefty feat tax...

    I'm sure there's a few ways to have your Dodge feat apply to more than one opponent?
    Word Given Form is not itself a feat, but a martial art that you can just learn as a result of meeting the prereqs, which eases the tax ever so slightly.

    You can have both Dodge and Azure Dodge for multiple dodge targets. Depending on the how you parse the language in Sword & Fist about class features that replicate feats, you may be able to get a third dodge target from Swashbuckler 5.

    If you really want to go for a permissive reading, Word Given Form just says "when using your Dodge feat against an opponent," rather than designate them as the target of your Dodge feat or whatever, so you might be able to get away with using Desert Wind Dodge or Expeditious Dodge to get a bonus and hence concealment against everyone.

    Elusive Target also makes use of multiple dodge targets and synergizes well with Word Given Form.

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  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by pabelfly View Post
    I'd be interested in reading up on that. Is it the Disciple of the Word PrC on P216, or is it another PrC that I'm missing?

    Edit: reading through Disciple of the Word, although it's a pretty bad class, its 5th and 9th level abilities are actually really, really (really) good.

    Word of Reflexes Exalted lets you use a Truespeak check to cover a reflex save.

    Word of Mystic Deflection: When you're targeted by a spell that needs to overcome spell resistance, you can spend one use of Stunning Fist and attempt a truespeak check that the opposing caster has to overcome for their spell to work.
    Would Word of the Fist Unraveling be a little bit odd though? Position the person right and you make a truespeak check versus Anti-magic wall.

  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by animewatcha View Post
    Would Word of the Fist Unraveling be a little bit odd though? Position the person right and you make a truespeak check versus Anti-magic wall.
    Yeah, the Truenaming section is rather poorly-written, Zaq has plenty of examples in his Truenaming handbook. This has a similar equivalent with the truenamer version of Dispell, exploit and your reaction included.

    The more I think about it the more interested I am playing with this ****ty thing and seeing what I can do with it.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    I do have a Word Given Form build in my (WIP, unreleased) overhaul to my guide, but it veers pretty far into “can vs. should” territory.

    To this day, though, every single time I do a deep read through the Truename Magic section of ToM, I discover something new and stupid. Yes, still.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
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  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    Word Given Form is not itself a feat, but a martial art that you can just learn as a result of meeting the prereqs, which eases the tax ever so slightly.
    Ah, OK: I see that now. I had misread it as a feat itself.

    If you took it as a class other than Truenamer (say, Factotum), and you have the ranks in Truespeak: is there anything other classes can do with those ranks?

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Ah, OK: I see that now. I had misread it as a feat itself.

    If you took it as a class other than Truenamer (say, Factotum), and you have the ranks in Truespeak: is there anything other classes can do with those ranks?
    There's a list of spells on p253 of Tome of Magic for various casters - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Sorc/Wizard.

    You can also take feats to get Utterances.

    There are also several PrCs that you can get entry to with ranks of Truenaming.
    Last edited by pabelfly; 2019-08-03 at 05:40 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Whoa, completely passed this over by accident.

    PRC
    Alchemist (Jade and Steel) - It's not the best, but it's flavour is really good and it has the ability to make spells of any level into potions, which can just get extremely stupid.

    Feat
    Tomb-Tainted Soul(LM) - Not technically that obscure, but I almost never hear about the feats that have it as a prerequisite(T-B Fortitude, T-B Resilience, T-B Vitality). Yeah, I know they're kinda bad, but they're all super flavourful and I love making necromancers with them.

    Disguise Spell[Metamagic] (Song) - Absolutely fabulous when combined with perform(oratory), that is all.

    Spells
    Quite a few, but to save some space I'll only list a few.

    Spider Hand(BoVD) - I like spiders, so sue me, but this is frankly amazing imo. Sure you lose your non-dominant hand (unless you're an idiot and choose the wrong one) for the duration but you also gain a minion, a scouter, and something you can milk for poison, all from one spell.

    Avascular Mass (SCp) - It's a good BFC spell that essentially acts as a cross between Avasculate, Entangle, and Web.

    Choking Sands(Sand) - Instantly fill the target's lungs with sand and force them to begin suffocation. Technically doesn't work on creatures that don't need to breath and it pains me that this doesn't combo with the following spell.

    Black Sand (Sand) - The best friend of any undead mage able to cast it and kill something small to fill your shoes with as it doesn't say the black sand created after casting goes away.

    Item
    Mask of Lies(CAd) - Basically the changeling race in an item with a bonus effect of undetectable alignment.

    Races
    Slyth(Udark)- As I laid out here.

    Faun - From Deities and Demigods, this race is fey type, has
    • 1 HD and no LA
    • Low-light vision
    • musical ability trait allowing the player to use the satyr's pipes the same as a satyr at a DC of 25 among other things
    • music resistance giving a +2 bonus to saving throws made to resist various musical effects including sonic spells, irresistible dance, bardic music, and others
    • a +2 racial bonus to hide, move silently, and Survival
    • a +4 racial bonus on perform(flutes or pipes)


    The main problem, however, is their bad stat modifiers of +2 Dex, -2 Wis, -2 Cha to sort of balance out the bonuses above, though it is basically the over-correction that we've come to expect from wizards.
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    Sometimes you need more than well crafted crunch. Sometimes you need well crafted crunch that is playable in the game.
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  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aniikinis View Post
    Spider Hand(BoVD) - I like spiders, so sue me, but this is frankly amazing imo. Sure you lose your non-dominant hand (unless you're an idiot and choose the wrong one) for the duration but you also gain a minion, a scouter, and something you can milk for poison, all from one spell.
    As an arachnaphobe, I refluff it to squirrel hand.
    ,,,,^..^,,,,


    Quote Originally Posted by Haldir View Post
    Edit- I understand it now, Fighters are like a status symbol. If you're well off enough to own a living Fighter, you must be pretty well off!

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vizzerdrix View Post
    As an arachnaphobe, I refluff it to squirrel hand.
    Often used by the drow, an evil race of elves obsessed with prairie dogs.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by pabelfly View Post
    There's a list of spells on p253 of Tome of Magic for various casters - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Sorc/Wizard.

    You can also take feats to get Utterances.

    There are also several PrCs that you can get entry to with ranks of Truenaming.
    I wonder if this would have been a better way to do the Truenamer: essentially a Sorcerer-like class, but the Utterances don't have any components, and all have a Truespeak element that turbocharges them, like free metamagic or additional effects or something, that you don't get if you can't do the Truename.

    ...or maybe just take a Psion and call your Power Points something else like Lexicon Points or your Syllables or something...

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vizzerdrix View Post
    As an arachnaphobe, I refluff it to squirrel hand.
    As an arachnophile, I love it just the way it is. Actually, I once made a magic item based off of this spell for a cleric character of mine with the DM's approval: Here

    The DM was a little lax with it imo and apparently didn't realize the obvious cheap bit in there.

    EDIT: Provided a link instead of the bit itself.
    Last edited by Aniikinis; 2019-08-04 at 05:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quarian Rex View Post
    Sometimes you need more than well crafted crunch. Sometimes you need well crafted crunch that is playable in the game.
    Black for normal/uncaring/bored. Purple for in love. Blue for being a jerk/sarcastic bum.

    Black(Blue and Green) or Sultai is my khanate, and my colour alignment.

    For some strange reason I have a severe reaction to sunlight when it hits my eyes, no clue why or what causes it so yeah...
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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Adventurer View Post
    I wonder if this would have been a better way to do the Truenamer: essentially a Sorcerer-like class, but the Utterances don't have any components, and all have a Truespeak element that turbocharges them, like free metamagic or additional effects or something, that you don't get if you can't do the Truename.
    My opinion on how Truenaming should have been done:
    - Truenaming should have been based on ranks and not the total check itself, the total ranks required increasing if you start adding augmentations like Quicken or Empower. That way a Truenamer wouldn't have to pump their money into their gear to function on a basic level, it wouldn't be so unfriendly to more casual players and would still feel different to other schools of magic.
    - The functional differences between spells and spell-like abilities should be explained,
    - Nearly all the PrCs in the Truenaming section sqhould advance utterances, rather than none
    - Amendments should have been added to rework some older PrCs to optionally advance utterances. E.g. Abjurant Champion could be entered with a first-level utterance (and 5 BAB and Combat casting) and would advance Truenaming utterances if you had levels in the class. Would have greatly expanded options for characters for little work.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    I've also proposed that Truenamers should just be Bards with a re-fluff, in the past. Sonic-themed magic all of which has Verbal components, and a skill-based system around interacting with other magic, minds, and sonic effects, and making allies into better versions of themselves. Basically all things a Truenamer might be imagined to do.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Someone once suggested to me that the interesting part of Truenamers is their "reverse" feature. That many utterances are two spells/SLAs in one is really the reason you'd want to play one (even if that still isn't super powerful). I have to agree. I no longer require True Speak checks to use normal utterances. The "law of resistance" instead means that you must wait a number of rounds (which goes down as you level) before using the utterance again or use its reverse, allowing to use it once more after the reverse (and the reverse has the same "resistance"). It doesn't give them a huge boost, but even on its own the change makes them quite a bit more playable.
    Last edited by Luccan; 2019-08-04 at 05:20 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    The Shackled City adventure path (hardcover reprinting) has the same "1st party" status as Dragon Compendium, and has quite a lot of new stuff within.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Module Content Page Content Type
    Shackled City Adimarchus, Demon Prince of Madness 322 Creature
    Shackled City Crystal Snake 325 Creature
    Shackled City Draconic Fingerling (swarm) 326 Creature
    Shackled City Lichfiend 327 Template?
    Shackled City Mob 327 Template
    Shackled City Smoking Eye Creature 329 Template
    Shackled City Thunder Beast 330 Creature
    Shackled City Tarterian Creature 332 Template
    Shackled City Death Frost Spell 334 Feat
    Shackled City Flesh of the Ice Tomb 334 Feat
    Shackled City Practiced Magic 335 Feat
    Shackled City Icefane Corpse 335 Spell
    Shackled City Necrotic Mist 336 Spell
    Shackled City Rime 336 Spell
    Shackled City Shadow Dagger 336 Spell
    Shackled City Shadow Puppeteer 336 Spell
    Shackled City Alakast 336 Magic Item
    Shackled City Dementia 337 Weapon Quality
    Shackled City Mindbite 337 Magic Item
    Shackled City Star of Justice 337 Magic Item
    Shackled City Ring of Thirteen 337 Magic Item
    Shackled City Amulet of the Planes, Lesser 337 Magic Item
    Shackled City Black Jug 337 Magic Item
    Shackled City Blackstone Rune 337 Magic Item
    Shackled City Lantern of Guidance 338 Magic Item
    Shackled City Serpent's Eye 338 Magic Item
    Shackled City Simulacrum Suit 338 Magic Item
    Shackled City Sphere of the Unseen 338 Magic Item
    Shackled City Amaranth Elixir 338 Artifact
    Shackled City Tree of Shackled Souls 338 Artifact
    Shackled City High Handcrafter 340 Prestige Class
    Shackled City Pathwarden 341 Prestige Class

    The standouts for me are the Practiced Magic feat (functions much as Practiced Spellcaster, but for SLAs); and High Handcrafter (not an amazing PrC, but fairly easy reqs, and grants 3 bonus feats of your choice over 5 levels - not bad for a feat heavy build).

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    The Shackled City adventure path (hardcover reprinting) has the same "1st party" status as Dragon Compendium, and has quite a lot of new stuff within.


    The standouts for me are the Practiced Magic feat (functions much as Practiced Spellcaster, but for SLAs); and High Handcrafter (not an amazing PrC, but fairly easy reqs, and grants 3 bonus feats of your choice over 5 levels - not bad for a feat heavy build).
    Death Frost Spell is nice, but more importantly, one can use it as proof that Flash Frost Spell adds damage to spells which don't originally deal damage.

    Also, is there any limit to how often a High Handcrafter's Summon Earth Elemental can be used?
    Last edited by Kalkra; 2019-08-04 at 08:28 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalkra View Post
    Also, is there any limit to how often a High Handcrafter's Summon Earth Elemental can be used?
    Good question.

    It looks like the class has suffered some editing issues when being reprinted from Dungeon Magazine to the hardcover. It was condensed from a 10 level class to a 5 level class, and changed in other ways. But even checking the original source, daily uses of the summons aren't defined.

    RAI would probably be 1/day, in keeping with the power level of the class, but RAW, it could be read as at-will!

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aniikinis View Post
    Spider Hand(BoVD) - I like spiders, so sue me, but this is frankly amazing imo. Sure you lose your non-dominant hand (unless you're an idiot and choose the wrong one) for the duration but you also gain a minion, a scouter, and something you can milk for poison, all from one spell.
    I see it transforms into a small monstrous spider. So it really is a case of Spider Hand, Spider Hand, does whatever a spider can...







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    tongue Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    I love that BoVD has not one, but three spells that involving detaching hands (Spider Hand, Graz’zt’s Long Grasp and Grim Revenge)!!!

    And that's not even counting Lahm’s Finger Darts!

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    The three level prestige class Wayfarer Guide can be very useful for large parties that like to teleport.
    Last edited by Particle_Man; 2019-08-04 at 11:13 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Lichfiend is in Libris Mortis, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Particle_Man View Post
    The three level prestige class Wayfarer Guide can be very useful for large parties that like to teleport.
    I always thought that, losing a spell casting level as it does, you might end up being better off d skipping the class entirely. It delays access to Greater Teleport!

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    You could always take it after getting greater teleport.

    I was thinking of it to round off a wood elf soulborn 2 (both elf substitution levels)/paladin of freedom 3/ranger 2/divine crusader 10 (travel domain from the elf moon goddess of death)/wayfarer guide 3 (add those caster levels to the paladin side, perhaps) and then take that dimensional jaunt reserve feat and practised spellcaster feat. I think that lets me bring 8 people along for the ride.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Particle_Man View Post
    You could always take it after getting greater teleport.

    I was thinking of it to round off a wood elf soulborn 2 (both elf substitution levels)/paladin of freedom 3/ranger 2/divine crusader 10 (travel domain from the elf moon goddess of death)/wayfarer guide 3 (add those caster levels to the paladin side, perhaps) and then take that dimensional jaunt reserve feat and practised spellcaster feat. I think that lets me bring 8 people along for the ride.
    Cool concept. But don't you miss out on that 16th point of BAB?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Adventurer View Post
    Cool concept. But don't you miss out on that 16th point of BAB?
    You could always cut out of DC early (after 8th), take more full BAB, and then complete DC casting with Wayfarer Guide...

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    You could always cut out of DC early (after 8th), take more full BAB, and then complete DC casting with Wayfarer Guide...
    Cool, yeah! Divine Crusader 5/Ordained Champion 5/Wayfarer Guide 3 would get you to DC 10th casting, but not until the end. Might be tricky also to work out a deity or cause of Travel and War?
    Last edited by Mr Adventurer; 2019-08-05 at 02:43 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
    I see it transforms into a small monstrous spider. So it really is a case of Spider Hand, Spider Hand, does whatever a spider can...
    Yeah, it's surprisingly alright of a spell. Although, I would like to point out that it causes the hand to actually grow to a different size category than it would normally be. The average hand size for a 5'10" male human is 7.44 inches and the lower reaches of the small size category are around 2 feet(24 inches). This causes a tripling of the size of the hand causing it to grow from a diminutive object and into a small creature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Adventurer View Post
    Cool, yeah! Divine Crusader 5/Ordained Champion 5/Wayfarer Guide 3 would get you to DC 10th casting, but not until the end. Might be tricky also to work out a deity or cause of Travel and War?
    A cause surrounding prolonging the unrelenting conflict of mortals and thus the ever-moving spectre of war?
    Last edited by Aniikinis; 2019-08-05 at 03:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quarian Rex View Post
    Sometimes you need more than well crafted crunch. Sometimes you need well crafted crunch that is playable in the game.
    Black for normal/uncaring/bored. Purple for in love. Blue for being a jerk/sarcastic bum.

    Black(Blue and Green) or Sultai is my khanate, and my colour alignment.

    For some strange reason I have a severe reaction to sunlight when it hits my eyes, no clue why or what causes it so yeah...
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    biggrin Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aniikinis View Post
    Yeah, it's surprisingly alright of a spell. Although, I would like to point out that it causes the hand to actually grow to a different size category than it would normally be. The average hand size for a 5'10" male human is 7.44 inches and the lower reaches of the small size category are around 2 feet(24 inches). This causes a tripling of the size of the hand causing it to grow from a diminutive object and into a small creature.


    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    ...the fact that you can say "Simpsons did it" to this spell is just breathtaking. Thurbane, thank you. I am at once horrified, shocked, flabbergasted, and on the verge of laughter for not seeing this coming. EDIT: I'm very sleep deprived, so that might have something to do with it.
    Last edited by Aniikinis; 2019-08-05 at 05:06 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quarian Rex View Post
    Sometimes you need more than well crafted crunch. Sometimes you need well crafted crunch that is playable in the game.
    Black for normal/uncaring/bored. Purple for in love. Blue for being a jerk/sarcastic bum.

    Black(Blue and Green) or Sultai is my khanate, and my colour alignment.

    For some strange reason I have a severe reaction to sunlight when it hits my eyes, no clue why or what causes it so yeah...
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    Default Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aniikinis View Post
    A cause surrounding prolonging the unrelenting conflict of mortals and thus the ever-moving spectre of war?
    You know, a concept of Crusade might just do it: go there, do war at them.

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