The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #631
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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    1) Are you really appealing to the "norm" for what's right?

    2) I actually agree with you that the dismissal of Hilgya being forced into marriage is tedious at this point. I really don't understand why people keep bringing that up as a possibility.

    3) Perhaps, but let's not pretend that's what Hilgya's doing. Her first priority in leaving is because she's bored, not because she's worried about Kudzu.

    4) True, but there are a lot of things that individuals technically don't have to care about that still can, and should, be held as black marks against them.
    1) I was emulating brian's thought process (though I still don't think he exists) and applying it to, well, revenge. If forced marriage has existed for so long, so has revenge.

    2) Well, I still say he's a figment of my imagination.

    3) Hilgya didn't show boredom at first in this particular battle, she was focused on Kudzu.

    4) Cool. How many children do you have?
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    4) Cool. How many children do you have?
    You have kids?! When did that happen?
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    We went through this a few threads ago. In the end, we created and populated the Far Realms.
    Did Fruit Pie the Sorcerer live there?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    You have kids?! When did that happen?
    No I don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    No I don't.
    You statement seems irrelevant then, or possibly a poor choice at best. You are suggesting that this is a situation where the experience relevant to it is only found through raising a kid and a very small set of other options, but you aren't actually a part of that. So you are defending a hill as if it was your own, but you don't even live near there nor do you know anyone who does.


    Sorry, that got kinda incoherent there.
    Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-07-22 at 03:00 PM.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    You statement seems irrelevant then, or possibly a poor choice at best. You are suggesting that this is a situation where the experience relevant to it is only found through raising a kid and a very small set of other options, but you aren't actually a part of that. So you are defending a hill as if it was your own, but you don't even live near there nor do you know anyone who does.


    Sorry, that got kinda incoherent there.
    No.

    Another poster said that places where "the family unit can easily be (legally) broken" have X, Y and Z issues. I said the individuals don't have to care. Then the other guy took issue with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    No.

    Another poster said that places where "the family unit can easily be (legally) broken" have X, Y and Z issues. I said the individuals don't have to care. Then the other guy took issue with it.
    The current predicament is with the "do you kids" statement, which tends to bring up a very specific argument.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    The current predicament is with the "do you kids" statement, which tends to bring up a very specific argument.
    It's more like: "If you're about to condemn people for not caring about the effect a freer society has on population rates, you'd best have kids". :P
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Remember how many worlds the gods have created previously. The chance of it happening in any one world is low, but as the size of the universe increases, the improbable becomes probable. I feel that if it's possible to escape and stay alive afterwards, someone would have done it already.
    However, as the odds of it happening at least one increase from world to world, the odds of that group of survivors lasting through all of those worlds goes down. It is possible if not probable that at least one world has a group who survived the cataclysm into the new world, but there's also the fact that they wouldn't neccesarily survive the next several thousand years. Things happen - plague, famine, bloody revolt, mandrake attack, and so on. Eventually, the group will fall even if the gods never notice them. There could hypothetically be a group there at the moment, but I doubt any of them would make it past a generation or two.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    Sorry, when was this? I actually want to read about this now.
    Basically this page.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Did Fruit Pie the Sorcerer live there?
    Well, any of his people who survived.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    It would absolutely not work. A cleric would depend on their god for sustenance, and a god has bigger problems than grant spells every "morning" while hiding from the Snarl. Heck, we already doubted if Hel could preserve her vampires, and they are at least, as you point out, not exactly alive, and of course she'd have a massive pool of new power to pool from. A single cleric, trying to survive for however long it takes for the gods to recreate the universe (which could be centuries, or millennia, for all she knows)? Not a chance. And that's before going in to how terrible it would be for Kudzu to grow up in such a scenario.

    Grey Wolf
    And even then, there are explicitly creatures that are explicitly tasked with putting a stop to stuff like that:
    Marut
    Size/Type:Large Construct (Extraplanar, Lawful)

    Maruts confront those who would try to deny the grave itself. Any who use unnatural means to extend their life span could be targeted by a marut. Those who take extraordinary measures to cheat death in some other way might be labeled transgressors as well. When a marut has identified its target, it walks surely and implacably toward the foe, never resting.
    "Escaping the destruction of the universe" seems like it fits "taking extraordinary measures to cheat death."
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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    No.

    Another poster said that places where "the family unit can easily be (legally) broken" have X, Y and Z issues. I said the individuals don't have to care. Then the other guy took issue with it.
    I didn't take issue, specifically, with people having a right to choose whether or not they have children, I took an issue with your (continued) assertion that individual choices can't have societal implications or that no one is ever obliged to at least consider them.
    I'd just like to point out that saying that something unsupported is the case unless someone else can prove that it is not is an utter failure of logic. - Kish

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    By definition most such survivors would tend to be the sort who are likely to skip town and lay low when there's a conflict.
    Not necesarily, adventurers on a quest that takes to another plane or that simply live there, isnt that one of the ways genasi are born? Or half outsiders? Remember that most mortals are completely unaware that all of creation is on the verge of being destroyed currently in comic. Granted, plane shift is a mid to high level spell, but it isnt the only way to travel the planes. Astral caravan comes to mind as a psionic alternative that is only 5th level. Plus there are several creatures that are capable of doing so innately. heck imagine that the posibility exists and someone has blink activate on the exact second the world gets destroyed and their soul is left behind for the snarl to destroy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Generally speaking I don't think OOTS gods are omnipotent or have absolute power over their followers - they could, notionally, lose to a mortal or to something they created (if the Snarl can kill them, so can humans; we have one less quiddity, but still more than any god.) This would imply that the gods can't just arbitrarily, repeatedly, and safely declare the most powerful survivors of every single world they create to be dead. Eventually they're going to try that and the top-level wizard is gonna say "no, you die instead."
    Yet the fact that they have, countless times, implies that they have ways to bypass protections set by mortals to prevent that death. Most if not all the pantheons have a god/ess of magic that would know the back door to, say a contingency from an epic wizard that time stops in the peril of inminent death or smth of the like, remember that they made the rules of the universe the mortals are residing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    So my guess is that when there's high-level casters skipping town, the gods allow it (and maybe set up barriers to keep them out of the new world or something.)
    if they can prevent them to come back, wouldnt it imply they can interfere with their magic, and thus able to cash their soul?

    This all assuming they remake the world instantly and not take eons to do so like some other people are suggesting.

    You guys think the gods have templates by now? Or they balance ecosystems by hand each time? Maybe there is a market for macros in there.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    I didn't take issue, specifically, with people having a right to choose whether or not they have children, I took an issue with your (continued) assertion that individual choices can't have societal implications or that no one is ever obliged to at least consider them.
    If the choices are not a crime, no one needs to consider societal implications, no.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    If the choices are not a crime, no one needs to consider societal implications, no.
    Choices don't need to be explicitly crimes to still have negative implications for those around you.
    I'd just like to point out that saying that something unsupported is the case unless someone else can prove that it is not is an utter failure of logic. - Kish

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Sooo

    Dwarven Waraxe, them?
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    Choices don't need to be explicitly crimes to still have negative implications for those around you.
    Okay: if a choice is not a crime and you're not directly harming someone...
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Okay: if a choice is not a crime and you're not directly harming someone...
    Not a big fan of the tragedy of the commons, I take it? Pollution just isn't a thing that exists, nobody ever got hurt from gaming the stock market, and the social contract isn't worth the paper it's written on?

    As the poster who said "Societies where the family unit can be easily broken have issues X, Y and Z" I haven't actually had a chance to take issue with your response yet, but there's no shortage of people jumping on the straw men you keep raising.

    I don't expect you to suddenly start caring about everyone else because some guy on the internet said it was wrong to be a jerk, but hopefully someone who maybe has never heard of "tragedy of the commons" or wonders what a social contract is might become curious and learn about the assumptions our society is built on and the horrors that happen when those assumptions stop being true.

    I mean, last time western civilization collapsed it only caused about a thousand year Dark Age. Maybe we'll be lucky this time and escape to Mars. Or the Snarl will escape and the gods will harvest us because the Snarl is secretly allergic to nuclear power and our power plants make it sneeze.
    Last edited by diremage; 2019-07-22 at 04:55 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by diremage View Post
    Not a big fan of the tragedy of the commons, I take it? Pollution just isn't a thing that exists, nobody ever got hurt from gaming the stock market, and the social contract isn't worth the paper it's written on?

    As the poster who said "Societies where the family unit can be easily broken have issues X, Y and Z" I haven't actually had a chance to take issue with your response yet, but there's no shortage of people jumping on the straw men you keep raising.

    I don't expect you to suddenly start caring about everyone else because some guy on the internet said it was wrong to be a jerk, but hopefully someone who maybe has never heard of "tragedy of the commons" or wonders what a social contract is might become curious and learn about the assumptions our society is built on and the horrors that happen when those assumptions stop being true.

    I mean, last time western civilization collapsed it only caused about a thousand year Dark Age. Maybe we'll be lucky this time and escape to Mars.
    So, you'd have people forced to stay in a miserable marriage for the sake of society? Or what? As for the social contract, yes, I know what it is. I also know that it is not a license for the "majority" to sacrifice the "minority" in the name of "the common good".
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    So, you'd have people forced to stay in a miserable marriage for the sake of society? Or what? As for the social contract, yes, I know what it is. I also know that it is not a license for the "majority" to sacrifice the "minority" in the name of "the common good".
    Our society would have taken away the kids Hilgya carelessly birthed through partying and having a good time, and would have stuck her in jail indefinitely for attempted murder and probably endangering her child by bringing it on an adventure with her.

    HER society instead stuck some poor sod with the task of surviving her murder rampages, being nice to her and ignoring her assorted indiscretions while attempting to limit the danger that she, as a walking, psychotic IED, could inflict to herself and the society around her.

    She has so far literally murdered or attempted to murder both the people we know to have had intimate relationships with her, and went so far as to steal every penny her family owned, leaving them destitute and probably condemned to an eternity of damnation from working in the mines.

    OUR society sacrifices that kind of "minority" by locking them away for "the common good." She may at some point have been a tragic, misunderstood victim of her family's law-abiding ways, although we only have a very one-sided and myopic account of that incident; by the time she gets ready to exit stage right she is definitely not working on any kind of a normal moral system or within the laws of her society.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by diremage View Post
    I mean, last time western civilization collapsed it only caused about a thousand year Dark Age.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by diremage View Post
    Our society would have taken away the kids Hilgya carelessly birthed through partying and having a good time, and would have stuck her in jail indefinitely for attempted murder and probably endangering her child by bringing it on an adventure with her.

    HER society instead stuck some poor sod with the task of surviving her murder rampages, being nice to her and ignoring her assorted indiscretions while attempting to limit the danger that she, as a walking, psychotic IED, could inflict to herself and the society around her.

    She has so far literally murdered or attempted to murder both the people we know to have had intimate relationships with her, and went so far as to steal every penny her family owned, leaving them destitute and probably condemned to an eternity of damnation from working in the mines.

    OUR society sacrifices that kind of "minority" by locking them away for "the common good." She may at some point have been a tragic, misunderstood victim of her family's law-abiding ways, although we only have a very one-sided and myopic account of that incident; by the time she gets ready to exit stage right she is definitely not working on any kind of a normal moral system or within the laws of her society.
    Okay, that's it. Prove to me that you're not a figment of my imagination.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    I do declare, good sir, I could grant you twelve hundred years but including either the Renaissance or the centuries prior to the final Fall of Rome is just not generally done.

    I grant, insomuch as it was the final push that toppled the corpse, that we in the modern era fear less the Visigoths and the Huns than we once might, but in their place arise bogeymen of our devise, specters of violence sufficient to cause fear and shaking in otherwise stout-hearted men; agents, one may venture, of Terror.

    You shall find no memes here, I warrant; any such nonsense should be quickly fixed by a sturdy clap to the inner ear.
    Last edited by diremage; 2019-07-22 at 05:33 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by diremage View Post
    I do declare, good sir, I could grant you twelve hundred years but including either the Renaissance or the centuries prior to the final Fall of Rome is just not generally done.

    I grant, insomuch as it was the final push that toppled the corpse, that we in the modern era fear less the Visigoths and the Huns than we once might, but in their place arise bogeymen of our devise, specters of violence sufficient to cause fear and shaking in otherwise stout-hearted men; agents, one may venture, of Terror.

    You shall find no memes here, I warrant; any such nonsense should be quickly fixed by a sturdy clap to the inner ear.
    See? I told you you didn't exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    The_weirdo: Take the strangest thing your imagination can figment, and add a wizard who has conjured it. That wizard is me. Because I have caused your imagination to figment, I am therefore beyond and superior to the figment I have caused.

    I should also add that if you are regularly telling your figments that they don't exist, you might want to ask your doctor for some stronger medication. Talking to the elephant in the room is rarely productive, especially when it's just a wizard summon.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by diremage View Post
    The_weirdo: Take the strangest thing your imagination can figment, and add a wizard who has conjured it. That wizard is me. Because I have caused your imagination to figment, I am therefore beyond and superior to the figment I have caused.

    I should also add that if you are regularly telling your figments that they don't exist, you might want to ask your doctor for some stronger medication. Talking to the elephant in the room is rarely productive, especially when it's just a wizard summon.
    You're not my real dad!
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    Sooo

    Dwarven Waraxe, them?
    Hmm... from a game mechanic perspective, are single edge and double edge axes treated differently? Or are the differences between the axes just an artistic choice?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Hmm... from a game mechanic perspective, are single edge and double edge axes treated differently? Or are the differences between the axes just an artistic choice?
    Probably a difference in what die is rolled for damage. You've got throwing axe, hand axe, battle axe, great axe, and dwarven axe, all of which are very slightly different. You could also throw a short-hafted halberd or guisarme in there I guess. All -basically- axes.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by diremage View Post
    Probably a difference in what die is rolled for damage. You've got throwing axe, hand axe, battle axe, great axe, and dwarven axe, all of which are very slightly different. You could also throw a short-hafted halberd or guisarme in there I guess. All -basically- axes.
    Pathfinder has something called a “dwarven double waraxe”, which is similar to a “dwarven waraxe”, except that it has two edges, and is +1 to critical when using the cleave or great cleave feats.

    So, I am choosing to pretend that he’s using a dwarven double waraxe.

  30. - Top - End - #660
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1171 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    Sooo

    Dwarven Waraxe, them?
    I like how this one thinks.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

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