The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #661
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by eee View Post
    This. Lucrezia shouldn't be this good. I only have two explanations for this.
    There's a third possible explanation--namely, that the Foglios aren't terribly consistent about the power levels of their characters. For example, Gil handily beat Vole the first time he met him, but got trounced when they met the second time--and Vole said this was because he lost his hat the second time, which completely ignored the fact he *also* lost his hat the first time around. The real reason Gil lost there was because the plot demanded he do so.

  2. - Top - End - #662
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Let's hope this was all done for a good reason. Take the filler presented a month early; it made no sense until I realized it's purpose was to sell shirts leading up to Halloween.

    The comic plot enhanced Miss Thorpe to fight the super powerful Futur-crezia, but then has it wear off. So we enlarged Oggie, to take out Futur-crazia, only to have him taken out of the fight. Disabled Futur-crezia is replaced with a Lucragatha who's stronger than anyone remembers. The plot knocked out Zeetha, only to have her wake up.

    The party is split, others missing, we have no idea who's awake, who's out of the fight, and who's just wandering hallways.

    I can only assume that the plot needed the 3 powerful sparks rebuilding the machine only to keep them out of the fight, sent off Rakethorn & the Boyz just for an eardum joke, but also made sure Oggie got shot, so he can be enlarged but consequntially removed?

    Any odds on Futur-crezia getting up, melding with Lucragatha to make Lucrezia Prime?

    My head hurts.
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  3. - Top - End - #663
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    There's a third possible explanation--namely, that the Foglios aren't terribly consistent about the power levels of their characters. For example, Gil handily beat Vole the first time he met him, but got trounced when they met the second time--and Vole said this was because he lost his hat the second time, which completely ignored the fact he *also* lost his hat the first time around. The real reason Gil lost there was because the plot demanded he do so.
    The hat was a secondary reason. The first time they fought, Vole was using kid gloves because he wasn't allowed to kill or seriously injure Gil. In addition, Gil went straight in at full "in the madness place" sparkiness. In the second fight, Vole is no longer holding back while Gil is seriously underestimating Vole and treating the fight like a joke.

    Once Gil starts taking the fight seriously again, he whoops Vole's ass.

  4. - Top - End - #664
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    The hat was a secondary reason. The first time they fought, Vole was using kid gloves because he wasn't allowed to kill or seriously injure Gil. In addition, Gil went straight in at full "in the madness place" sparkiness. In the second fight, Vole is no longer holding back while Gil is seriously underestimating Vole and treating the fight like a joke.

    Once Gil starts taking the fight seriously again, he whoops Vole's ass.
    You beat me to it. The point of those fights, among other things was also to display how gil is not a bog standard human (or even a bog standard sparky human) he has stats that go clearly superhuman when he is sufficiently enraged to the point of hurling a large war clank around whilst already injured iirc. Maybe a part of it is the treatment he got from mama, maybe a part of it is stuff the baron did to him all his life, maybe male skifandarians are all incredible hulks in combat and as a halfblood gil doesnt have full access to his abilities.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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  5. - Top - End - #665
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    You beat me to it. The point of those fights, among other things was also to display how gil is not a bog standard human (or even a bog standard sparky human) he has stats that go clearly superhuman when he is sufficiently enraged to the point of hurling a large war clank around whilst already injured iirc. Maybe a part of it is the treatment he got from mama, maybe a part of it is stuff the baron did to him all his life, maybe male skifandarians are all incredible hulks in combat and as a halfblood gil doesnt have full access to his abilities.
    A propos: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comi...5#.XaJApGbOOUk
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Keep in mind the next comic as we see large portions of mechanicsburg dont get knocked out either. So gil not being knocked out is surprising but not superhuman.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  7. - Top - End - #667
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Keep in mind the next comic as we see large portions of mechanicsburg dont get knocked out either. So gil not being knocked out is surprising but not superhuman.
    Mechanicsburg has been systematically crafted to fit the Heterodynes, they wouldn't have been harmed by the bell (Heterodynes do not hurt their own), they would have been supercharged.

    Gil, on the other hand isn't conditioned to react like that, he's just charged by the fact that Agatha isn't just alive but winning. Honestly, I don't know where this places him on the human/superhuman spectrum.

    But, as to the point we're discussing, Lucrezia isn't a great combatant, but a superb opportunist. The combatants she's up against have been heavily taxed already and Violetta keeps telling you she's not a good smoke knight. She's predictable to someone who can think like her, making her default sneak attack a liability rather than an "I Win" button.

    If Zeetha, Thorpe, or Oggie get their second win, Agatha-Lucy would be screwed. They won't, however. They'll continue to be stressed and barely holding on until reinforcements arrive. After that, it's hard to tell what will happen - I'm clinging to hope that they rip Agatha-Lucy out and hand Beetle-Lucy over to the queen. More likely, however, I expect Beetle-Lucy to escape from the fight, with Agatha-Lucy in a container.
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  8. - Top - End - #668
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    Mechanicsburg has been systematically crafted to fit the Heterodynes, they wouldn't have been harmed by the bell (Heterodynes do not hurt their own), they would have been supercharged.

    Gil, on the other hand isn't conditioned to react like that, he's just charged by the fact that Agatha isn't just alive but winning. Honestly, I don't know where this places him on the human/superhuman spectrum.
    Firstly, the Heterodynes absolutely DO hurt their own. You don't get to be as tough as the people of Mechanicsburg with NICE people in charge. Remember, Agatha set a new record for good rulership by not killing any of the townspeople for a mere TWO minutes. I am somewhat disturbed that this record would necessarily include Bill and Barry.

    The Heterodynes aren't good rulers by anything we would consider good, even accounting for the time period. It's just that when THEY turn a bunch of their townspeople into giant frog monsters they set them on the neighboring cities instead of Mechanicsburg itself. Plus, they were strong enough to defend themselves from other rampaging Sparks.

    What we see of the Doom Bell isn't that the people were crafted to be immune - they've just developed immunity through years of exposure. As we see in Madame Gkika's, at least some of the resident population are knocked out (the fake Jaeger girls). The town council also expresses concern - they say that while the Doom Bell will knock out any enemy troops inside the city, it will ALSO knock out a significant amount of their own population - namely, those who were too young to have ever heard the Doom Bell before.

    Now, this is contradicted a few pages later as we see not just Van still on his feet but young children who greet the Jaegers as they arrive. It's unclear whether they were just tough enough to not get knocked out, or whether they were revived by the older residents. We do get an indication from Der Kestle that it's not something bred into the population - Von Zinzer and his work team are all knocked out, and the Castle states that "they'll get used to it".

    Madame Gkika's reaction is one of surprise that Gil is still standing, and him being capable of still standing means he's worthy. He's badass enough to not get knocked out.

  9. - Top - End - #669
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    What we see of the Doom Bell isn't that the people were crafted to be immune - they've just developed immunity through years of exposure. As we see in Madame Gkika's, at least some of the resident population are knocked out (the fake Jaeger girls). The town council also expresses concern - they say that while the Doom Bell will knock out any enemy troops inside the city, it will ALSO knock out a significant amount of their own population - namely, those who were too young to have ever heard the Doom Bell before.

    Now, this is contradicted a few pages later as we see not just Van still on his feet but young children who greet the Jaegers as they arrive. It's unclear whether they were just tough enough to not get knocked out, or whether they were revived by the older residents. We do get an indication from Der Kestle that it's not something bred into the population - Von Zinzer and his work team are all knocked out, and the Castle states that "they'll get used to it".
    Yup, that's weird. I mean, one would have assumed that ramping up the danger of the bell would have meant a new challenge for the hero. Instead, Vanamonde is unscathed, and we never see any effects of the bell on the city defences.

    It's also true that we never see the people of Mechanicsburg fight. We only hear about it from an enemy soldier. And we have a repairmen team. So the bell would have been mostly inconsequential anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  10. - Top - End - #670
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Well, in the two-page spread we see Van doing the clutching the heart thing. But as we later learn, the Von Mekkans have had a bit of work done on them.

    We don't know that the "jaeger girls" were actually Mechanicsburgers, as opposed to people who moved there to work the tourist trade. I'd imagine natives of M-Burg would be a little hesitant to pretend to be Jaegers.

  11. - Top - End - #671
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Only if they were worried about real Jaegers finding out. Considering they worked for one, it's unlikely native Mburgers would be doing it unwittingly.
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    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  12. - Top - End - #672
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    The latest.

    Nanotechnology is apparently a thing in this universe, but only a few people have access to it. Also,
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    Lucrezia never removed Tarvek's backdoors.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Years after it was foreshadowed , he did the thing. And it was good.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    That was awesome. Tactical error on Lu's part.

    Okay. Gil. Your turn.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    That also means that Lucrezia is limited to three bodies right now, two of which she doesn’t have complete control over.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-10-14 at 06:33 AM.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Lu done messed up. And it's great. Wow, how long a call back is this anyway?
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    That also means that Lucrezia is limited to three bodies right now, two of which she doesn’t have complete control over.
    I obviously hope that is true, both for plot and "we want the good guys to win" reasons, but we don't know that. When clank-Lu and the Geisters left Sturmhalten, they had a working Summoning Engine.

    And yes, nice to see the callback, and to have the heroes act smart for a change.
    Last edited by geoduck; 2019-10-14 at 07:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Lu done messed up. And it's great. Wow, how long a call back is this anyway?
    A touch over 13 years. It was a reference to that page on TVTropes that first introduced me to Girl Genius. Good times.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    "Annevka, repair the machine instead of us!"

    "Annevka, don't forget to water the plants!"

    "Annevka, remind me to call Grandma!"

    Lucrezia: your personal assistant!
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    "Annevka, repair the machine instead of us!"

    "Annevka, don't forget to water the plants!"

    "Annevka, remind me to call Grandma!"

    Lucrezia: your personal assistant!
    Pretty sure «*Anevka, freeze*» is just a codeword to shutdown motor functions.
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  21. - Top - End - #681
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Pretty sure «*Anevka, freeze*» is just a codeword to shutdown motor functions.
    If you read the quoted page (and the next few pages), it extends far more than that. Tarvek can literally control her every move and speech, or at least, was supposed to be able to.

    Which does remind me: Anevka is technically still alive, isn't she?

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Grif View Post
    Which does remind me: Anevka is technically still alive, isn't she?
    The clank that *thought* they were Anevka (although they clearly weren't, the real one died long ago) had their head removed and put in a cupboard, but we have no idea what happened to it after that, or how much use it would be even if it were available.

    One thing to note: while the "Freeze!" keyword seems to still work, we don't know if Tarvek's other control functions still work--those might have been attached to the removed head rather than something in the clank body.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Grif View Post
    If you read the quoted page (and the next few pages), it extends far more than that. Tarvek can literally control her every move and speech, or at least, was supposed to be able to.

    Which does remind me: Anevka is technically still alive, isn't she?
    I don't think we ever met Anevka. The pages following the initial use of the Freeze command explain that Anevka was supposedly being carried by Clankevka's "Bearers," but Clankevka became more and more autonomous over time, to the point where Anevka died and Clankevka was none the wiser. (Tarvek's explanation of this, happening while he's administering shutdown procedures on Clankevka, implies that it happened some time ago, certainly long before Agatha showed up) EDIT: Elegant and finely-crafted link here.
    Last edited by Landis963; 2019-10-14 at 10:40 AM.
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  24. - Top - End - #684
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    At first, I thought “Why didn’t Tarvek do that earlier?!? Zeetha, Violetta, and Oggie might still be up if he had. Did he really not recognize his own work?”

    Then I realized that I hadn’t really recognized the clank body either without her frilly clothes (and with her eyes looking like that), and that Tarvek was distracted with some very important construction. Fair enough.

    Still, I’d still have thought her vocal “scream” would have been a tip-off; surely he’d have recognized the sound. Maybe that was an upgrade Lucrezia made?

    Also, rereading the linked moment when we saw Tarvek control Anevka...brilliant that he waited until she knocked out Agatha-Lucrezia. So she didn’t see it coming when he controls her now.

    Still, this probably won’t work twice if Lucrezia gets to modify it later. Hope he makes it count.
    Last edited by NobleCuriosity; 2019-10-14 at 03:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by SZbNAhL View Post
    A touch over 13 years. It was a reference to that page on TVTropes that first introduced me to Girl Genius. Good times.
    Remind me again, what's the current record for a callback? I think we have a new candidate.

  26. - Top - End - #686
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Remind me again, what's the current record for a callback? I think we have a new candidate.
    Probably this.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by SZbNAhL View Post
    Probably this.
    And since that goes back to page 4 I think it might take a little beating...

    Ye gods! 2002! Where has the time gone?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post
    And since that goes back to page 4 I think it might take a little beating...

    Ye gods! 2002! Where has the time gone?
    Both callbacks are in the area of 13 years. So it's near a tie between the two of them.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    You know, I was looking back at the original "Anevka, freeze" strips, and of course kept going into a full storyline binge.

    Check out Agatha!Lucrezia's face at Tarvek's comment on this page. Given what we now know about Lucrezia's history, there's a thousand words in that expression.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Grif View Post
    If you read the quoted page (and the next few pages), it extends far more than that. Tarvek can literally control her every move and speech, or at least, was supposed to be able to.

    Which does remind me: Anevka is technically still alive, isn't she?
    Oh right. Nevermind.

    Depends if you count clank-Anevka as Anevka (which I don’t see why we wouldn’t since we count clank-Lucrezia as Lucrezia) but in that case yes.
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    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

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