The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
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    Oggie would rather die than let that happen and Tweedle should know that. That concoction is probably a similar to the Jagerdraught that was given to Gil back in Mechanicsburg. Tweedle HAS to help because the assassins would kill him as well and he also needs Agatha alive and intact.
    I don't think Tweedle is so much worried about Agatha dying as he is about Lucrezia escaping while he's still chemically leashed to her. Lucrezia would love having a potential Storm King chemically enthralled to her and Tweedle knows it.
    Last edited by xroads; 2019-09-04 at 03:14 PM. Reason: Fixed grammar

  2. - Top - End - #392
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Yeah, Martellus may be untrustworthy in general, but in this situation he has several strong incentives to be completely and genuinely cooperative and helpful.

    If Agatha and her friends lose this fight, he dies with them. If they win and discover he's betrayed them, he will be at their mercy thanks to his chemical thrall tinkering. The only ways he'd survive betraying them now are if he does it so subtly they don't notice, or if he overpowers them and gains complete control. They're smart and suspicious enough that any attempt at the first option is unlikely to work, and he doesn't have anywhere near the amount of force that would be required for the second option.
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  3. - Top - End - #393
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by xroads View Post
    Lucrezia would love having a potential Storm King chemically enthralled to her and Tweedle knows it.
    Very good point.

  4. - Top - End - #394
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by wingnutx View Post
    Very good point.
    As a side note, if that weasel dies, she becomes just as dependent on him. It has to have restrictions on it or else she would have made everyone around her capable of providing the chemical need or whatever it was. So it turns into a two way issue and he apparently has a longer duration of time he can stay away than she does. That could get messy very fast.
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  5. - Top - End - #395
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    They're smart and suspicious enough that any attempt at the first option is unlikely to work, and he doesn't have anywhere near the amount of force that would be required for the second option.
    After the last page of discussion about the dumb decisions our heroes have made, I feel like this statement needs to come with an asterisk and a disclaimer.

  6. - Top - End - #396
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    After the last page of discussion about the dumb decisions our heroes have made, I feel like this statement needs to come with an asterisk and a disclaimer.
    The party is smart, they just have to occasionally make dumb decisions for the sake of the plot, meaning that they should be fine for the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    As a side note, if that weasel dies, she becomes just as dependent on him. It has to have restrictions on it or else she would have made everyone around her capable of providing the chemical need or whatever it was. So it turns into a two way issue and he apparently has a longer duration of time he can stay away than she does. That could get messy very fast.
    Martellus might decide to furtively take out the wasp eater in order to ensure Agatha sticks with him, but odds are she would just reorient something else to help her until she can figure out what to do. Also, Martellus may or may not realize its value in the fighting-the-Other point of view.

    I'd say that assuming we don't suddenly find out he's poisoned our dear Jaegar in the next page or two, he's somewhat reliable and fine for the duration of this scene. At least until he is out of harms way.
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  7. - Top - End - #397
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    As a side note, if that weasel dies, she becomes just as dependent on him. It has to have restrictions on it or else she would have made everyone around her capable of providing the chemical need or whatever it was. So it turns into a two way issue and he apparently has a longer duration of time he can stay away than she does. That could get messy very fast.
    I suppose people would have noticed if Tweedle stunk like a skunk, but weasels have major level scent glands that probably make them really useful if you're engineering a pheromone substitute (skunks are only in the Americas, so Agatha can't use them [unless some mad scientist introduced them, in which case they're probably too large, aggressive, and lethally smelly to make a good choice]).
    Last edited by Ellen; 2019-09-04 at 07:59 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #398
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellen View Post
    I suppose people would have noticed if Tweedle stunk like a skunk, but weasels have major level scent glands that probably make them really useful if you're engineering a pheromone substitute (skunks are only in the Americas, so Agatha can't use them [unless some mad scientist introduced them, in which case they're probably too large, aggressive, and lethally smelly to make a good choice]).
    Do you think maybe that means that the Wasp-Eaters detect revenants primarily through smell?
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  9. - Top - End - #399
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Since we see them sniffing before screaming, almost certainly.

  10. - Top - End - #400
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by wingnutx View Post
    Very good point.
    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    As a side note, if that weasel dies, she becomes just as dependent on him. It has to have restrictions on it or else she would have made everyone around her capable of providing the chemical need or whatever it was. So it turns into a two way issue and he apparently has a longer duration of time he can stay away than she does. That could get messy very fast.
    True, but as big of an ego as Tweedle has, I doubt even he wants to play chicken with the Other. At this point he has a lot of incentive to help remove Lucrezia and then help cut the chemical leash.
    Last edited by xroads; 2019-09-05 at 02:04 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #401
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    This has got to be a big plot point. If the Foglios went through all the trouble to get Tweedle there when there was no reason for it, create a reverse curse to justify it, have Oggie shot so he has some reason to drink the potion that the King just whipped up in a few minutes... this will either be HUGE...or Phil really wanted to draw whatever comes next ( like a dragon that needs a flying bicycle).
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  12. - Top - End - #402
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    This has got to be a big plot point. If the Foglios went through all the trouble to get Tweedle there when there was no reason for it, create a reverse curse to justify it, have Oggie shot so he has some reason to drink the potion that the King just whipped up in a few minutes... this will either be HUGE...or Phil really wanted to draw whatever comes next ( like a dragon that needs a flying bicycle).
    Why would a dragon need a bicycle? That's the wrong question.
    Why wouldn't a dragon need a bicycle?
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  13. - Top - End - #403
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    Why would a dragon need a bicycle? That's the wrong question.
    Why wouldn't a dragon need a bicycle?
    An even better question is:
    Why do we care if a dragon actually needs a bicycle or not? If a dragon wants my bike, he can have my bike. Please don't burninate me, Mr. Dragon.
    Last edited by Ailurus; 2019-09-06 at 07:28 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #404
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    Why would a dragon need a bicycle? That's the wrong question.
    Why wouldn't a dragon need a bicycle?
    This is the dragon with the bicycle:

    http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20121203
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  15. - Top - End - #405
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Ah, warrior queen to warrior princess. I think they understand each other very well. This cuts both ways - If Albia starts to cause trouble, then she might find that Zeetha understands her thought processes a little too well.


    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    This is the dragon with the bicycle:

    http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20121203
    What I really like about that comic - Barry made it. They may not have liked the ways of their ancestors, but they seem to have gotten on with the monsters OK.
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  16. - Top - End - #406
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post
    What I really like about that comic - Barry made it. They may not have liked the ways of their ancestors, but they seem to have gotten on with the monsters OK.
    Well, there are monsters and there are Monsters. Franz isn't really a bad guy. He doesn't go out hurting people for fun. Some of the Monsters though, the do like the hurt and kill for fun. Don't think the Boys got along so well with them and we know they avoided Der Kastel as much as they could.
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  17. - Top - End - #407
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Well, there are monsters and there are Monsters. Franz isn't really a bad guy. He doesn't go out hurting people for fun. Some of the Monsters though, the do like the hurt and kill for fun. Don't think the Boys got along so well with them and we know they avoided Der Kastel as much as they could.
    Franz is just a huge lovable softy with incredibly hard scales and the ability to spew plumes of fire.


    If Franz is an actual dragon and not a Heterodyne'd lizard (he seems to be old enough that either could be the case), do you guys think he would have been able to stand up against his...ah, competitor, if he had been fully awake and alert?
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  18. - Top - End - #408
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    This is the dragon with the bicycle:

    http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20121203
    Not on the topic, but a few pages later von Zinzer shows exactly why I miss him so much. He might not be a spark, but his common sense is unmatched.
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  19. - Top - End - #409
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    If Franz is an actual dragon and not a Heterodyne'd lizard (he seems to be old enough that either could be the case)
    The difference being...?
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  20. - Top - End - #410
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    Franz is just a huge lovable softy with incredibly hard scales and the ability to spew plumes of fire.


    If Franz is an actual dragon and not a Heterodyne'd lizard (he seems to be old enough that either could be the case), do you guys think he would have been able to stand up against his...ah, competitor, if he had been fully awake and alert?
    Once Agatha recharged him he didn't seem to have much trouble. He's wearing the other dragon's hat when he reappears to fly Agatha to the roof.

  21. - Top - End - #411
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    So Zeetha has new Skifander-style swords. Good for her. Though it makes me wonder. Might these swords play later into Lady Steelgarter’s plan to steal Skifandrian artifacts from Zeetha? Despite the branding, these could easily be mistaken for the real deal. Maybe Albia even knows about that plan and is planting these intentionally to send the schemers off on the wrong track?
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  22. - Top - End - #412
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by datalaughing View Post
    So Zeetha has new Skifander-style swords. Good for her. Though it makes me wonder. Might these swords play later into Lady Steelgarter’s plan to steal Skifandrian artifacts from Zeetha? Despite the branding, these could easily be mistaken for the real deal. Maybe Albia even knows about that plan and is planting these intentionally to send the schemers off on the wrong track?
    "Despite the branding"? If Steelgarter is dumb enough to overlook that, her villain-cred gets set to zero. I'd be more worried that Albia included something with the sword to.. encourage.. Zeetha to stay in her garden.

  23. - Top - End - #413
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by geoduck View Post
    "Despite the branding"? If Steelgarter is dumb enough to overlook that, her villain-cred gets set to zero. I'd be more worried that Albia included something with the sword to.. encourage.. Zeetha to stay in her garden.
    Agatha, yes. Zeetha, I'm not sure. She is the daughter of another queen.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Well, there are monsters and there are Monsters. Franz isn't really a bad guy. He doesn't go out hurting people for fun. Some of the Monsters though, the do like the hurt and kill for fun. Don't think the Boys got along so well with them and we know they avoided Der Kastel as much as they could.
    Do not forget the Jägers. They might love to fight, but their biggest advantage is their loyalty. They serve the Heterodyne without questioning their motivation. They are intelligent enough so that they don't just blindly follow orders. They have initiative, but their morality is always the same as their master's. I guess it's more or less true for the other monsters created by the Heterodynes.
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  25. - Top - End - #415
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by petersohn View Post
    Do not forget the Jägers. They might love to fight, but their biggest advantage is their loyalty. They serve the Heterodyne without questioning their motivation. They are intelligent enough so that they don't just blindly follow orders. They have initiative, but their morality is always the same as their master's. I guess it's more or less true for the other monsters created by the Heterodynes.
    I don't think their morality changes, they're just loyal enough to accede to their master's wishes despite what they would normally want. The Boys were basically an anomaly - the white sheep of the family. They didn't like Mechanicsburg, they didn't like the Castle, and they weren't comfortable with the Jaegermonsters either. The Jaegers basically accepted that this generation of Heterodynes wasn't going to be interesting and dug in for the long haul, operating in secret to protect the family interests. As it turned out, the Jaegers found this "heroism" thing to be kind of appealing, and Agatha is looking to be the best of both worlds - basically heroic, but with a nasty streak that means she isn't afraid to use the more reprehensible parts of her legacy to her advantage.

    I'm betting that was the case for most of the monsters - they weren't fans of how Bill and Barry did things, but orders are orders and in a few decades a more interesting Heterodyne is bound to come along and allow them to let loose.

  26. - Top - End - #416
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Once Agatha recharged him he didn't seem to have much trouble. He's wearing the other dragon's hat when he reappears to fly Agatha to the roof.
    Being recharged seems to have sharply boosted Franz's inherent abilities. The question is basically "if he was fully awake and alert, would he have as much power (rather, at least enough to fight the other dragon) as being recharged?".

    Quote Originally Posted by petersohn View Post
    Do not forget the Jägers. They might love to fight, but their biggest advantage is their loyalty. They serve the Heterodyne without questioning their motivation. They are intelligent enough so that they don't just blindly follow orders. They have initiative, but their morality is always the same as their master's. I guess it's more or less true for the other monsters created by the Heterodynes.
    Their loyalty is different than the "loyalty" you see in revenants and the like though; the Jaegers specifically have the option of saying no to what the Heterodyne wants, but more often than not they are happy to go along with it because its fun. It's not so much that the Jaegers are incredibly loyal, but rather that the Heterodynes were good masters given what the Jaegers want to do.
    Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-09-07 at 10:19 AM.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  27. - Top - End - #417
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    The print-novels note at one point that the Jagers found Bill and Barry to be interesting because they were something different, and when you're a few hundred years old, novelty is always welcome.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post
    What I really like about that comic - Barry made it. They may not have liked the ways of their ancestors, but they seem to have gotten on with the monsters OK.
    I think Barry was slightly less heroic than Bill. He seems to have been more willing to put up with the craziness that is Mechanicsburg. He certainly was more helpful in getting the survivors out of the wreckage.

    Quote Originally Posted by geoduck View Post
    The print-novels note at one point that the Jagers found Bill and Barry to be interesting because they were something different, and when you're a few hundred years old, novelty is always welcome.
    In the comic one of the Jaegers mentions that they had been banned from following Bill and Barry after getting caught one too many times. Before that they had put enormous effort into trying to understand the masters.
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  29. - Top - End - #419
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by geoduck View Post
    The print-novels note at one point that the Jagers found Bill and Barry to be interesting because they were something different, and when you're a few hundred years old, novelty is always welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    In the comic one of the Jaegers mentions that they had been banned from following Bill and Barry after getting caught one too many times. Before that they had put enormous effort into trying to understand the masters.
    It's in the comic as well, at the same place. Obviously, the scene in the novels would be a little earlier in the timeline.

    I'm really wishing that the next print novel comes out soon. I think it was announced for November...
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by geoduck View Post
    "Despite the branding"? If Steelgarter is dumb enough to overlook that, her villain-cred gets set to zero. I'd be more worried that Albia included something with the sword to.. encourage.. Zeetha to stay in her garden.
    I doubt Zeetha was given those with some sort of diabolical subliminal mind-nudge to get her to stay. If anything, I'd say that the fact that she got a new pair of swords was the trick, with the idea being to get Zeetha to be onboard with staying on the grounds that she can easily get some Skifanderian-style fighting practice and equipment without having to fight Agatha in particular.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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