The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryring View Post
    Bernie does have a persecution complex. It's even the name of her unique ability. But it's a very understandable case of a persecution complex. And more importantly, you do see growth in her throughout the school year now that she's been placed in a safe area where she doesn't have to deal with [REDACTED FOR SPOILERS].

    Actually, it seems like a lot of the complaints about the Black Eagles being one-note stems from just not interacting enough with them. Yes, Petra struggles with the language, Ferdie wants to steal the throne and Caspar is hot-blooded fighter dude. But there's also a whole lot more to them. That's just the first brush with the character. And like all the characters in the game, you can't judge them by first brush.

    Except Hubert. Hubert is evil.
    Yes, her unique ability is where I got the description from. I have gotten to her supports explaining why she's like that, and it's understandable. It doesn't make her any less irritating unfortunately. I found Marianne to be vastly more interesting as a reclusive character.

    I'm up to B support for everyone across the board (apart from a couple of time locked ones), and I stand by my opinion - they're simply less interesting and nuanced characters than the Golden Deer guys. They're also just less likeable. It's possible that there will be shocking revelations for everybody at A rank, but I doubt it - I already had a handle on all the Golden Deer folks by B rank and it looks to be the same here. Maybe they'll show more growth from the timeskip, I dunno.

    I can't see myself ever liking Edelgard though. She's scarily dogmatic and extremist.

    I find it telling that the most interesting supports have been cross-house ones. I could watch Sylvain and Dorothea verbally spar all day long - the inveterate womanizer and the gold digger who see right through each other and are willing to turn the snark meter up to 11. Sylvain and Bernadette is just sweet (although I'm annoyed it stops at B rank because the story feels incomplete), and Linhardt and Marianne have a cool dynamic.

  2. - Top - End - #212
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post

    I can't see myself ever liking Edelgard though. She's scarily dogmatic and extremist.

    I find it telling that the most interesting supports have been cross-house ones. I could watch Sylvain and Dorothea verbally spar all day long - the inveterate womanizer and the gold digger who see right through each other and are willing to turn the snark meter up to 11. Sylvain and Bernadette is just sweet (although I'm annoyed it stops at B rank because the story feels incomplete), and Linhardt and Marianne have a cool dynamic.
    See that's what I LOVE about the supports in this game. They haven't gone out of their way to make everyone likeable. But even those people have valid reasons to behave the way that they do. Sylvain is a jerk, you can call him a jerk (which is great), but he is a byproduct of the crest system. This doesn't make his behavior any less deplorable, but you can understand why he behaves the way he does and of course he does have redeeming qualities e.g. Bernadette and Mercie supports.

    Edit: And likewise towards Eddie, I am still early game for Eddie but I can understand where she's coming from. Please don't spoil her path for me though I have a pretty good guess as to where it's going to after finishing the blue lion path.
    Last edited by Rising Phoenix; 2019-08-05 at 02:04 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix View Post
    See that's what I LOVE about the supports in this game. They haven't gone out of their way to make everyone likeable. But even those people have valid reasons to behave the way that they do.
    I think my favorite case of this in Golden Deer is Lorenz. He comes off as a really stuck-up noble, where in fact

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    it's at least partially an act. The only path forward for him in life is to succeed his father, and duty to his family and his people is everything. So he's constantly projecting this arrogant aura because he's trying to appear more powerful than he actually is, since that's the only way to get ahead in the noble courts. There's actually a nice guy hiding underneath all that pomp.


    Oh, and Linhardt just really surprised me with his B support for Byleth. Another tick in his favor. He's definitely on my "potentials" list for my next run. Looking at the Support list, I see Bernadette has a double A support with Raphael of all people. I really, really want to see that, but I'm full up on space for this playthrough. For the future, I guess.

    Speaking of Byleth, does anyone else think female Byleth looks kind of...weird? Her eyes seem really big for her face even considering the anime style, and there's just something unsettling about her features. Male Byleth was slightly creepy because of how silent he is, but his actual features were pretty generic anime protagonist.

    Finally, I found something I had been considering asking about for some time, so I'll share it here:

    To look at your progress towards class mastery while at the monastery, go to the Marketplace and try to buy a weapon for that character. You'll see the skills in the bottom right, and at the very bottom right you can see your progress meter. No numbers (because that would be too useful), but it does at least give you a quick read on who has mastered their classes before certification.

    On Normal I found the class skills a pain, because you're one-shotting enemies all over the place and the class skills go up glacially slow as a result. On Hard, you're trading a lot more blows, so the progress feels much better. Also worthy of note is the Experience Gem (there's a couple you can find), which states that it raises skills but ALSO gives an extra 2 Class Skill experience. Very useful for equipping to your mages that don't get attacked a lot. I sorted Dorothea's class skill old-school - I gave her a training sword, pointed her at an enemy that couldn't double-attack her, and set Linhardt behind her healing. Some 15 turns later and she got her rank. Grinding skills through pain: It's the Fire Emblem way.

  4. - Top - End - #214
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I can't see myself ever liking Edelgard though.
    Spoiler: Should really be spoilered
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    She's scarily dogmatic and extremist.
    Spoiler
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    That's because she believes that she has to be - probably correctly. Her goals run completely contrary to the Church, and you saw how they treat anyone who doesn't fall in line in part 1. Hell, unless Rhea varies what she says based on path, you surely heard her saying that the takeaway she wanted the students to have from their missions against people who opposed the Church was that they see what happens to anyone who does that. Plus Edelgard knows what Rhea really is, and how far she'll go to keep control of Fodlan.

    In the end, it all comes down the Church there. Edelgard couldn't just try to exile them from the Empire and implement her reforms in her nation alone or anything, because the Church would never allow it. Their reaction would be to label her a dangerous heretic and marshall its forces, the Kingdom, and the Alliance for a holy war to remove her - which they could certainly do, since they're a firmly-entrenched religion that the whole region believes in, aside from a parts of the Empire that have rockier recent history with it and its royal family that knows the truth. And trying to reveal that truth the general public would be an extreme uphill battle, because, as mentioned, firmly-entrenched religion, good luck getting people to believe you, and would definitely have gotten her purged as a heretic long before it bore any fruit, if it ever did. Destroying the Church was always going to be necessary for her to achieve anything she was aiming for, and trying to do that was always going to engulf all three nations in war, however she played it. By preparing for that and striking first, she gave herself a chance to win that she otherwise may not have had.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix View Post
    See that's what I LOVE about the supports in this game. They haven't gone out of their way to make everyone likeable. But even those people have valid reasons to behave the way that they do.
    Indeed. Even Hubert, much as you won't ever like him, you can at least come to understand why he is what he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin
    Oh, and Linhardt just really surprised me with his B support for Byleth. Another tick in his favor.
    I'm curious what exactly he surprised you with there? Supports are blending together enough for me that I don't recall what exactly you learned in that one off the top of my head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin
    Speaking of Byleth, does anyone else think female Byleth looks kind of...weird? Her eyes seem really big for her face even considering the anime style, and there's just something unsettling about her features. Male Byleth was slightly creepy because of how silent he is, but his actual features were pretty generic anime protagonist.
    Not really? Her outfit looks weird, as has been commented on before, but otherwise, nothing else stands out to me.
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    "We each decide our own sense of right and wrong. The rest, I leave to my sword." - Yuri Lowell, Tales of Vesperia

  5. - Top - End - #215
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Spoiler: *Actually, about that... (Black Eagle spoilers from around the time-skip point)
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    I'm very curious what impact choosing to accompany Edelgard to the capital when she was crowned Emperor has, since that was called out as something that would influence the plot, but I don't actually see what it would change. Choosing whether to defy Rhea's order to (try to) kill Edelgard after the battle in the tomb obviously splits things between siding with or against the Church, but that one's unclear. Anyone have any idea?
    Spoiler: Black Eagle Spoilers
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    That event is required to unlock the choice to side with Edelgard later on.
    If you don't get this scene, you're automatically locked out of the Edelgard route and forced to ally with the church.

  6. - Top - End - #216
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felyndiira View Post
    Spoiler: Black Eagle Spoilers
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    That event is required to unlock the choice to side with Edelgard later on.
    If you don't get this scene, you're automatically locked out of the Edelgard route and forced to ally with the church.
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    Really? Huh. Not sure why exactly that is, but okay, good to know. Guess it's a very good thing I didn't hesitate to do that.
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    "We each decide our own sense of right and wrong. The rest, I leave to my sword." - Yuri Lowell, Tales of Vesperia

  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
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    Really? Huh. Not sure why exactly that is, but okay, good to know. Guess it's a very good thing I didn't hesitate to do that.
    Spoiler: Black Eagle Spoilers
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    I assume it's because the crowning serves as a bonding scene where Byleth really gets to understand Edelgard's ideals and motives. Without that sort of personal connection, he's not likely to side with her if she just declares that she's going against the church, nor would Edelgard be as inclined to share her secrets with Byleth.

    Also, regarding Seteth and Flayn - it is actually possible to save them in the Black Eagle route. Byleth has to be the one to delivers the killing blow, though - once that happens, and if your supports with them are high enough, you get the option to spare them, at which point they abandon the war and go into hiding.


    Also, in regards to Seteth's actions in the Black Eagles route:

    Spoiler: Why Seteth... (Seteth-Flayn A support spoilers)
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    Seteth did have doubts about Rhea, but Edelgard wanted to destroy the church outright with no compromise. As Saint Cithol himself, he would rather continue working with Rhea than see the church destroyed.

    It's hinted in multiple places that Seteth and Flayn are, respectively, Saint Cithol and Saint Cethlann. Like, not their descendants, but the incarnations of the very saints themselves. Seteth keeps it more closely guarded, but a lot of Flayn's supports imply that she's way older than she seems and is familiar with ancient times. One of her lost items is basically a map to a lost empire. Her support with Linhardt has Linhardt literally guessing Flayn's identity and her doing a very poor job at denying it.

    There are a number of demonic beasts in the game that actually call them by their saint names when you use Seteth/Flayn to engage them, and in their A support, they abandon all pretense and just call each other by their saint names.

    Thus, as actual founders of the church, it makes a lot of sense why they'd prefer to support it under Rhea than to watch Edelgard tear it all down.

    Spoiler: Big Church Route Spoilers
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    IIRC, He does, however, help Byleth reform the church in the church route. So, even if he's not willing to destroy the church outright, he's more than happy to help you purge the corruption within and pledge loyalty to you as the new archbishop.

  8. - Top - End - #218
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felyndiira
    Spoiler: Black Eagle spoilers
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    I assume it's because the crowning serves as a bonding scene where Byleth really gets to understand Edelgard's ideals and motives. Without that sort of personal connection, he's not likely to side with her if she just declares that she's going against the church, nor would Edelgard be as inclined to share her secrets with Byleth.

    Also, regarding Seteth and Flayn - it is actually possible to save them in the Black Eagle route. Byleth has to be the one to delivers the killing blow, though - once that happens, and if your supports with them are high enough, you get the option to spare them, at which point they abandon the war and go into hiding.
    Spoiler: Black Eagle spoilers
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    I could see it as a bonding scene of sorts, though not really one where you get to understand her ideals and motives, since you don't actually learn anything more from it than she'd already told you in her C and C+ supports. Well, unless you count the fact that she was going to become Emperor sooner than you thought, anyway.

    And damn, if I'd known that, I'd have made a point of getting those supports to A rank. Oh well, consequences of going into the first run blind on that kind of thing. Maybe someday I'll do a re-run where I do that sort of thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felyndiira
    Also, in regards to Seteth's actions in the Black Eagles route:
    Spoiler: Why Seteth... (Seteth-Flayn A support spoilers)
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    Seteth did have doubts about Rhea, but Edelgard wanted to destroy the church outright with no compromise. As Saint Cithol himself, he would rather continue working with Rhea than see the church destroyed.

    It's hinted in multiple places that Seteth and Flayn are, respectively, Saint Cithol and Saint Cethlann. Like, not their descendants, but the incarnations of the very saints themselves. Seteth keeps it more closely guarded, but a lot of Flayn's supports imply that she's way older than she seems and is familiar with ancient times. One of her lost items is basically a map to a lost empire. Her support with Linhardt has Linhardt literally guessing Flayn's identity and her doing a very poor job at denying it.

    There are a number of demonic beasts in the game that actually call them by their saint names when you use Seteth/Flayn to engage them, and in their A support, they abandon all pretense and just call each other by their saint names.

    Thus, as actual founders of the church, it makes a lot of sense why they'd prefer to support it under Rhea than to watch Edelgard tear it all down.
    Spoiler: Big Spoilers
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    Well now, interesting. I know there was some implication of Flayn being older than she appeared, which makes it make sense that Setheth is too, being her father, but I didn't know that was their true identities specifically, since I only saw their C supports with Byleth, never anything more. I just assumed they were likely also Children of the Goddess, like Rhea, who is pretty clearly implied to be Seiros. Although I suppose that would raise the question why neither used a monstrous form like the Immaculate One when you fought them. (And I did see one of those Saint Beasts, in the Leonie/Lindhart paralogue in part 2, and Lindhart indicated he knew it to be the Saint whose relic it was protecting, so I know what you're talking about there.)

    Brings a whole new element to the plot hook where Those Who Slither in the Dark (seriously, they need a less cumbersome name) were after Flayn's blood, too. Likely wasn't just for her Crest, the way everyone was assuming, if what's special about her goes so much beyond that. ...though actually, that also brings to mind the question: why does she seem so young? Unlike Rhea and Setheth, who could just be immortal adults who have faked death over the course of years only to return passing themselves off as someone new, she actually seems to physically, and in some regards mentally, be a child, which is also why she's helpless enough to be a target there. Maybe there's some kind of reincarnation or regeneration thing going on there? Huh. Unless that's just the way she's stuck looking forever for some reason.

    Also, FYI, not reading the second spoiler you have in that block. Haven't done that path yet, and it will almost certainly be the last one I do.
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    "We each decide our own sense of right and wrong. The rest, I leave to my sword." - Yuri Lowell, Tales of Vesperia

  9. - Top - End - #219
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Zevox, regarding some of the stuff you said.

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    Ingrid and Felix show up in Aryanrhod or however it's spelt, the big fort where you fight... whats her nut, one of the Slitherers in the Dark.

    Anyway, a thing to note about the ending to Crimson Flower... this isn't DLC bait or anything, not really. The other paths go about it completely differently. Hell, Blue Lion
    Spoiler
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    doesn't even mention them at all. Blue Lion players don't even know Rhea's a dragon!


    If you want a proper conclusion to the Slitherer threat, it's in Yellow Deer.


    Anyway this was the best Fire Emblem I ever played.


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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Would love to be able to contribute to the black eagle vs blue lions discussion, but must avoid spoilers.
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  11. - Top - End - #221
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac
    Zevox, regarding some of the stuff you said.
    Spoiler
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    Ingrid and Felix show up in Aryanrhod or however it's spelt, the big fort where you fight... whats her nut, one of the Slitherers in the Dark.

    Anyway, a thing to note about the ending to Crimson Flower... this isn't DLC bait or anything, not really. The other paths go about it completely differently. Hell, Blue Lion
    [snipped because not looking at it, copied this without using the quote feature to avoid spoilers]

    If you want a proper conclusion to the Slitherer threat, it's in Yellow Deer.
    Spoiler: Black Eagle, and apparently Yellow Deer, spoilers
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    Interesting on that first. I was a bit surprised that there were no students at that fort, but figured they'd been saved for the later two chapters. Makes it a bit curious that there seemed to be spots set up for them in the final chapter, but eh, oh well, maybe they put extra units there on hard difficulty or something.

    As to the rest, well, I wish that you hadn't said that outside of a marked Yellow Deer spoiler block, since I didn't expect that and have avoided spoilers for other paths so far, and am just now starting my Yellow Deer file. But I don't see how it would help with the Black Eagle situation. A major story element was introduced, highlighted quite dramatically just prior to the final mission, and then summarily papered over in the epilogue. That's not good storytelling, even if everything else about the story was. That story will still feel incomplete even if those villains get highlighted more in another path, because that's basically an alternate timeline - another version of the story entirely, not a continuation of the same one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix View Post
    Would love to be able to contribute to the black eagle vs blue lions discussion, but must avoid spoilers.
    Know the feeling. Finishing one path still leaves it surprisingly hard to have a complete conversation here...
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    "When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis

    "We each decide our own sense of right and wrong. The rest, I leave to my sword." - Yuri Lowell, Tales of Vesperia

  12. - Top - End - #222
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
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    Anyway this was the best Fire Emblem I ever played.
    I'm going to disagree just a bit, but there's no Lyn in this game
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Spoiler: Black Eagle, and apparently Yellow Deer, spoilers
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    Interesting on that first. I was a bit surprised that there were no students at that fort, but figured they'd been saved for the later two chapters. Makes it a bit curious that there seemed to be spots set up for them in the final chapter, but eh, oh well, maybe they put extra units there on hard difficulty or something.

    As to the rest, well, I wish that you hadn't said that outside of a marked Yellow Deer spoiler block, since I didn't expect that and have avoided spoilers for other paths so far, and am just now starting my Yellow Deer file. But I don't see how it would help with the Black Eagle situation. A major story element was introduced, highlighted quite dramatically just prior to the final mission, and then summarily papered over in the epilogue. That's not good storytelling, even if everything else about the story was. That story will still feel incomplete even if those villains get highlighted more in another path, because that's basically an alternate timeline - another version of the story entirely, not a continuation of the same one.



    Know the feeling. Finishing one path still leaves it surprisingly hard to have a complete conversation here...
    Spoiler: Black EAgles
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    Sorry about that. I thought I was avoiding spoilers, but I misjudged. Sorry!

    It is a little weird, but they explain it pretty well I think. Edelgard is acutely aware that Uncle ******* could ruin her with that, so they need to keep their defiance to the Slitherer's secret, which is Hubert's job. So we're faced with that massive attack and are like "okay, noted, let's not antagonize them overtly and focus on the task at hand since they are nominally our allies".

    It's about Edelgard's willingness to sacrifice in order to achieve her goal, even if it involves dealing with snakes.


    Quote Originally Posted by MCerberus View Post
    I'm going to disagree just a bit, but there's no Lyn in this game
    You're not me though so it's okay.


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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Spoiler: Black EAgles
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    Sorry about that. I thought I was avoiding spoilers, but I misjudged. Sorry!

    It is a little weird, but they explain it pretty well I think. Edelgard is acutely aware that Uncle ******* could ruin her with that, so they need to keep their defiance to the Slitherer's secret, which is Hubert's job. So we're faced with that massive attack and are like "okay, noted, let's not antagonize them overtly and focus on the task at hand since they are nominally our allies".

    It's about Edelgard's willingness to sacrifice in order to achieve her goal, even if it involves dealing with snakes.
    Spoiler: Black Eagles
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    Apology accepted, for what it's worth. I know it can be hard once you've played a certain amount remembering what to mark as spoilers - especially in a game like this one, with multiple paths that diverge significantly.

    And that's all good storytelling in and of itself and all, but still doesn't excuse the lack of resolution to what they do about the Slitherers afterward. That's been set up as their next, and presumably final, big obstacle to handle, and then is just abruptly dropped and relegated to a footnote in the ending. It's deeply unsatisfying, and poor storytelling, even if it's the only part of the story that is like that.
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    "We each decide our own sense of right and wrong. The rest, I leave to my sword." - Yuri Lowell, Tales of Vesperia

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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Spoiler: Black Eagles
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    Apology accepted, for what it's worth. I know it can be hard once you've played a certain amount remembering what to mark as spoilers - especially in a game like this one, with multiple paths that diverge significantly.

    And that's all good storytelling in and of itself and all, but still doesn't excuse the lack of resolution to what they do about the Slitherers afterward. That's been set up as their next, and presumably final, big obstacle to handle, and then is just abruptly dropped and relegated to a footnote in the ending. It's deeply unsatisfying, and poor storytelling, even if it's the only part of the story that is like that.
    Spoiler: Black Eagles
    Show

    I'll accept that, though Hubert's paralogue gave me a satisfying feel to it. "The instant Edelgard's war ends, mine will begin. Not fought in grand battles in bloody plains, but in the shadows of the night."

    I do wish they had more to it, especially for a couple of reasons, but I'm... okay, with it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    I'm curious what exactly he surprised you with there? Supports are blending together enough for me that I don't recall what exactly you learned in that one off the top of my head.
    Spoiler: Linhardt B support
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    Linhardt is initially just "sleepy dude that likes crest research", and that's fine. My misgivings over him were that he can be quite rude, so I'm never sure whether to like him or not. He mentions in passing in a couple of his other supports that he doesn't like fighting, but he's not unique in that. The B support with Byleth goes into that in depth - more than we've seen with any other character. He really, really does not like the idea of taking a life, no matter how justified. It's a deep, serious discussion, and it gave me a lot more respect for him.


    Linhardt and Marianne's supports are just plain sweet.

    I'm just about up to the timeskip again. Curious to see how the story differs, because from this point on it should be radically different for each of the Houses.

    I am similarly not reading any of the spoilered stuff. I don't know the late game Black Eagles stuff and literally nothing about the Blue Lions route. I do get the feeling that to fully understand the story you're going to have to go through all three of them. Which...will take a while.

    My Bernadette is having serious strength issues. At level 20, she has only 12 Strength, and from the wiki I see that she starts with 8. If she were fast enough to double-attack that wouldn't be so bad, but she isn't. At least she has absurd range compared to any of my Golden Deer archers.

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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Just some no spoilery advice. Keep a save from before going into the Holy Tomb. You'll thank me later.


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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Just some no spoilery advice. Keep a save from before going into the Holy Tomb. You'll thank me later.
    Yeah, I looked up exactly where I would want to make saves ahead of time to make sure. I have two saves strategically placed, and am continuing on a third save. Once I complete this run and Blue Lions I plan on returning and experimenting a bit.

    I just went through the time-skip, which I found very interesting.

    Spoiler: Black Eagles timeskip, otherwise spoiler-free
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    The game clearly does not expect you to side with Edelgard on a first playthrough of the game. I say this because there is a lot less effort put into it. There were at least two cinematics on the Golden Deer route, including one that shows how Byleth was knocked out/dead for 5 years. In this version, we just get a couple of still images and Byleth is hit by an off-screen rocks-fall-everyone-dies and the screen goes black in the most undramatic way possible. The way you meet your students is also kind of telling that this is not the "main" route of the game. I wonder if this will hold true throughout, as the route I'm on IS the kinda-sorta-hidden 4th route. I hope there's at least ONE special cinematic for completing it...

    My opinion of this route still hasn't changed much - if this were Erfworld, I'd be on the balcony of the monastery while Edelgard circled above me on a wyvern giving me the lecture on "what make you think we're the bad guys?" Obviously I can't tell how I would feel on a blind playthrough of Black Eagles, but I'd say it's at least 70/30 that I would have sided with Rhea. And I certainly would have felt like I made the wrong choice after Chapter 12. If you're having to fight against Flayn, ya dun goofed somewhere along the line.


    My army continues to be...bizarre. Linhardt has FIFTEEN fewer points in Magic than Hubert. Ferdiand is just plain useless - I put him up against an enemy commander Fortress Knight because he had an Armorslayer, and he would have dealt 2 damage. Over two attacks. Meanwhile on the other side of the battlefied, Sylvain is chopping through armored knights with his Training Axe like they're tissue paper. Of course, he's only USING the Training Axe because he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if you picked him up and threw him at it. That boy has issues.

    Other than the Strength boosters (which went to Bernadette), I've been holding on to my stat boost items until now. I think it's time I finally started applying them.
    Last edited by Rodin; 2019-08-06 at 08:05 AM.

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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Concerning Black Eagle's path blind:
    Spoiler: Black Eagle Spoilers up to 12
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    I definitely considered myself to be on team evil during the first half of the game, but Edelgard managed to convince me that what she was doing was right. Destroying the nobility and crest system of rulership is actually good, and we are definitely going to murder the hell out of Those That Slither. I keyed in on Edelgard being the Flame Emperor fairly early on, but it still felt like a good twist. The church is also CLEARLY evil, purging the western church and Rhea saying that their job is to kill sinners. One of the religious books even says any sort of deviation from the church's teaching is punishable by death. Edelgard is clearly a "well intentioned extremist" who do actually have the ability to stay on the good side of things.


    I am baffled by my luck with stat ups. It may be because I never recruited anyone, but all of my units ended the game above or near 30 in al the stats that mattered. Hubert broke 40 on his mag stat.
    Last edited by LaZodiac; 2019-08-06 at 08:54 AM.


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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post

    My army continues to be...bizarre. Linhardt has FIFTEEN fewer points in Magic than Hubert. Ferdiand is just plain useless - I put him up against an enemy commander Fortress Knight because he had an Armorslayer, and he would have dealt 2 damage. Over two attacks. Meanwhile on the other side of the battlefied, Sylvain is chopping through armored knights with his Training Axe like they're tissue paper. Of course, he's only USING the Training Axe because he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if you picked him up and threw him at it. That boy has issues.

    Other than the Strength boosters (which went to Bernadette), I've been holding on to my stat boost items until now. I think it's time I finally started applying them.
    My Ferdi is likely to get benched on my second playthrough as well, has the strength of a wet tissue. Sylvain is once again proving to be a powerhouse as is Ashe...I am making both into draco knights along with Petra because why not.

    Also Lysithea is scary...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix View Post
    My Ferdi is likely to get benched on my second playthrough as well, has the strength of a wet tissue. Sylvain is once again proving to be a powerhouse as is Ashe...I am making both into draco knights along with Petra because why not.

    Also Lysithea is scary...
    In my game the HP soak and damage has Raphael reminding me of Amelia, destroyer of worlds
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix View Post
    My Ferdi is likely to get benched on my second playthrough as well, has the strength of a wet tissue. Sylvain is once again proving to be a powerhouse as is Ashe...I am making both into draco knights along with Petra because why not.

    Also Lysithea is scary...
    My Lysithea (on Normal) could deal 80 damage from range 4, and since she was fast as well that's a top potential damage of...480? Not that anything survived the first shot.

    Having played with Bernadette for most of a run, I now see the appeal of a Sniper over a Bow Knight. The extra movement wouldn't help her utterly absurd range with Deadeye, and she doesn't have anywhere near the speed required to get off double attacks without the Sniper special. On the flip side, Petra isn't even going to touch the Sniper class. She'd be triple-attacking most enemies if that were possible, and she's so dodgy that getting up close and personal isn't a danger. She just won my "Woah, Cool!" award for dodging and then point-blank shot counter-critting 3 Warriors in a single turn. 40% crit rate will do that. Currently deciding whether I keep her as an Assassin or whether I move her into Falcon Knight for the last few chapters.

    I also just ran into the most difficult thing Hard difficulty has thrown at me yet - a bonus boss Wyvern Lord with a Brave Axe. Anyone coming within 8 tiles of him would be taking two 60 damage hits to the face, guaranteed. The fastest move of anybody in my army is 6 (because for SOME reason there isn't a Pegasus Advanced class ), so I had to get inventive. Turns out Linhardt is pretty good at the old "fastball special", and I'm sure Hubert enjoyed materializing at point blank range with a Dark Spikes spell ready to insert where the sun don't shine. Took me about 20 turns to set it up by luring away the guards, but it was so worth it.

    Edit: Oh, and Brawlers/Grapplers are insane. The 50% HP restore combat art means that they can hold off an army by themselves as long as they don't get one-rounded.
    Last edited by Rodin; 2019-08-06 at 06:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    My Lysithea (on Normal) could deal 80 damage from range 4, and since she was fast as well that's a top potential damage of...480? Not that anything survived the first shot.

    Having played with Bernadette for most of a run, I now see the appeal of a Sniper over a Bow Knight. The extra movement wouldn't help her utterly absurd range with Deadeye, and she doesn't have anywhere near the speed required to get off double attacks without the Sniper special. On the flip side, Petra isn't even going to touch the Sniper class. She'd be triple-attacking most enemies if that were possible, and she's so dodgy that getting up close and personal isn't a danger. She just won my "Woah, Cool!" award for dodging and then point-blank shot counter-critting 3 Warriors in a single turn. 40% crit rate will do that. Currently deciding whether I keep her as an Assassin or whether I move her into Falcon Knight for the last few chapters.

    I also just ran into the most difficult thing Hard difficulty has thrown at me yet - a bonus boss Wyvern Lord with a Brave Axe. Anyone coming within 8 tiles of him would be taking two 60 damage hits to the face, guaranteed. The fastest move of anybody in my army is 6 (because for SOME reason there isn't a Pegasus Advanced class ), so I had to get inventive. Turns out Linhardt is pretty good at the old "fastball special", and I'm sure Hubert enjoyed materializing at point blank range with a Dark Spikes spell ready to insert where the sun don't shine. Took me about 20 turns to set it up by luring away the guards, but it was so worth it.

    Edit: Oh, and Brawlers/Grapplers are insane. The 50% HP restore combat art means that they can hold off an army by themselves as long as they don't get one-rounded.
    Yes, sniper vs bow knight really comes down to map terrain and how much lethality you need. If the map is very open and big a bow knight may be better. If the map is small and there are loads of very dangerous mages that need to be eliminated for your physical wall you're probably better off with a sniper. Good thing you can change class on a whim in the prep screen!


    And ok I think my Caspar just unlocked healing focus will need to try that out then.


    Edit: For scenarios like that I would double dance my ashe in, murder the target than get flayn to bail him out via rescue
    Last edited by Rising Phoenix; 2019-08-06 at 07:39 PM.
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    So, starting my Golden Deer file, I find myself trying to think through plans for each character, and there's a couple I'm not sure about. Lorenz and Ignatz.

    I look at Lorenz's favored skills and his growth rates, and my first instinct is to go for the Cavalier line while also learning Reason, so that he can eventually be a Dark Knight... but then I noticed his speed growth rate of 40%. Which would be fine except that the Cavalier classes will drop it by 10% (still really confused why they did that...), leaving it actually uncomfortably low. Not sure if that path works out for him as such.

    And Ignatz I was thinking about trying to make into a Mortal Savant since his strength and magic growths are pretty close, probably going sword classes until the Master classes open up, but I fear that his magic growth (30%) may be too low for that to work without going into a magic class to boost it in the mid-game, which I don't really want to do since I've got Lysithea and Marianne for that, plus I plan on bringing in Dorothea as a third (and making her my Dancer this time, taking advantage of that class getting to use magic).

    Also, I'm curious, anyone who's done Golden Deer, which faculty members and Knights can you recruit on that path? I assume Flayn, Hanneman, and Manuela are universal, but not sure about the rest, from previous discussions it sounded like they varied.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I am similarly not reading any of the spoilered stuff. I don't know the late game Black Eagles stuff and literally nothing about the Blue Lions route. I do get the feeling that to fully understand the story you're going to have to go through all three of them. Which...will take a while.
    No kidding. And now that my vacation is done, probably going to be quite a while for me. I'm seriously worried I won't finish by the time Astral Chain comes out at the end of the month...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    My Bernadette is having serious strength issues. At level 20, she has only 12 Strength, and from the wiki I see that she starts with 8. If she were fast enough to double-attack that wouldn't be so bad, but she isn't. At least she has absurd range compared to any of my Golden Deer archers.
    And now you know why I had to make her my Dancer to avoid just dropping her entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Spoiler: Black Eagles timeskip, otherwise spoiler-free
    Show
    The game clearly does not expect you to side with Edelgard on a first playthrough of the game. I say this because there is a lot less effort put into it. There were at least two cinematics on the Golden Deer route, including one that shows how Byleth was knocked out/dead for 5 years. In this version, we just get a couple of still images and Byleth is hit by an off-screen rocks-fall-everyone-dies and the screen goes black in the most undramatic way possible. The way you meet your students is also kind of telling that this is not the "main" route of the game. I wonder if this will hold true throughout, as the route I'm on IS the kinda-sorta-hidden 4th route. I hope there's at least ONE special cinematic for completing it...

    My opinion of this route still hasn't changed much - if this were Erfworld, I'd be on the balcony of the monastery while Edelgard circled above me on a wyvern giving me the lecture on "what make you think we're the bad guys?" Obviously I can't tell how I would feel on a blind playthrough of Black Eagles, but I'd say it's at least 70/30 that I would have sided with Rhea. And I certainly would have felt like I made the wrong choice after Chapter 12. If you're having to fight against Flayn, ya dun goofed somewhere along the line.
    Spoiler: Also just through BE timeskip
    Show
    Really now? I knew it felt odd that that part was skimmed over a bit like that, but I chalked it up to a hiccup similar to the awkward way you're introduced to the fact that Rhea wants to make you a professor. Interesting to know that there's more detail to it in other routes, I'll be interested to see that.

    And you'd seriously consider siding with the Church there? I never would. As sketchy as Edelgard looked at that moment in the tomb, the Church is worse. Between their totalitarian tendencies, the way Rhea was quite clearly just manipulating and using you for her own unclear ends, plus the way that the stories of most of the students amply display the myriad problems with the feudal system that Edelgard wants to change while the Church supports, and just knowing Edelgard's motives from her supports compared to what we'd seen of Rhea and the church, there's no contest in which side I'd take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    My army continues to be...bizarre. Linhardt has FIFTEEN fewer points in Magic than Hubert. Ferdiand is just plain useless - I put him up against an enemy commander Fortress Knight because he had an Armorslayer, and he would have dealt 2 damage. Over two attacks. Meanwhile on the other side of the battlefied, Sylvain is chopping through armored knights with his Training Axe like they're tissue paper. Of course, he's only USING the Training Axe because he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if you picked him up and threw him at it. That boy has issues.
    Lindhart having less magic than Hubert is normal - Hubert has the second highest magic growth rate in the game after Lysithea, while Lindhart's is more average for a mage. They shouldn't bethat different, granted, but since Lindhart is more of a healer than an offensive Mage anyway he can probably get by even if he got screwed a bit like that. Ferdindand is just pure bad luck though, his growth rates should make him solid at just about any physical class you feel like giving him. Mine (who went straight Cavalier path, ending in Great Knight) lagged a touch in the early game but wound up as one of my stronger units in the late game, probably behind only Leonie (who was truly ridiculous as a Wyvern Lord), Edelgard, and Byleth, in that order. And maybe Dorothea, if only because of Meteor.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Concerning Black Eagle's path blind:
    Spoiler: Black Eagle Spoilers up to 12
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    I definitely considered myself to be on team evil during the first half of the game, but Edelgard managed to convince me that what she was doing was right. Destroying the nobility and crest system of rulership is actually good, and we are definitely going to murder the hell out of Those That Slither. I keyed in on Edelgard being the Flame Emperor fairly early on, but it still felt like a good twist. The church is also CLEARLY evil, purging the western church and Rhea saying that their job is to kill sinners. One of the religious books even says any sort of deviation from the church's teaching is punishable by death. Edelgard is clearly a "well intentioned extremist" who do actually have the ability to stay on the good side of things.
    Agreed.
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Regarding recruitment/classes in the deer:
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    Hanneman was literally the only instructor I couldn't pick up. However the only student I picked up was Felix (I didn't try too hard). He slots in well as a Mortal Savant so you let Ignatz go sniper and still have a really good mortal savant candidate. Sword strength not attached to a magic user is kind of rare though, may want Ignatz as a thief/assassin for chests.

    For Lorenz I did Soldier -> Mage -> I had a dark seal so warlock for the mastery -> Dark Knight.
    And I'd just like to say there is NO character in the deer that gets a good spell selection for using a dark seal. Lorenz just spammed fire the whole time.

    You also have to bend the game really hard if you want a lord/hero character since Claude has unique classes that's a flyer. If I did things over, I'd have put Leonie on a pegasus for access to tri-attack and kept the shy girl on the ground probably towards that master class that's light magic on a horse
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by MCerberus View Post
    Regarding recruitment/classes in the deer:
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    Hanneman was literally the only instructor I couldn't pick up. However the only student I picked up was Felix (I didn't try too hard). He slots in well as a Mortal Savant so you let Ignatz go sniper and still have a really good mortal savant candidate. Sword strength not attached to a magic user is kind of rare though, may want Ignatz as a thief/assassin for chests.

    For Lorenz I did Soldier -> Mage -> I had a dark seal so warlock for the mastery -> Dark Knight.
    And I'd just like to say there is NO character in the deer that gets a good spell selection for using a dark seal. Lorenz just spammed fire the whole time.

    You also have to bend the game really hard if you want a lord/hero character since Claude has unique classes that's a flyer. If I did things over, I'd have put Leonie on a pegasus for access to tri-attack and kept the shy girl on the ground probably towards that master class that's light magic on a horse
    Don't think anything here is a spoiler, so not going to use a block.

    Thief/Assassin might be a very good suggestion for Ignatz, actually. His defenses are kind of low, and the Stealth ability on those would be good for him if I don't want to go straight ranged. Plus he can still get use out of his bow skills that way. And I actually never had one in my previous file, since I left Petra in Swordmaster the whole way, so it'll be nice to have someone with lockpicking, rather than buying chest keys and handing them to mounted units every time I need some.

    And actually, that makes me think maybe I can have Lorenz take the swordsman-into-Mortal Savant route instead. He's definitely got the growths for it without absolutely needing to dip into a magic class if I don't want to, and while swords aren't one of his strong skills, they're not a weak one either, and I've already seen that developing someone along a path for skills they are only okay in can work out just great when I made Leonie a Wyvern Lord in my first file.

    I'm aware of Claude's unique classes, and actually I fully intend to go heavy on fliers this time around, just for fun. I'm aiming for Byleth and Leonie as Pegasus/Falcon Knights, recruiting Petra and making her a Wyvern Rider (or maybe Cyril if I can get him and feel like using him, we'll see), plus of course having Claude in his unique classes.

    Leaves me with no non-flying mounted character, at least not until/unless I get Marianne into Holy Knight (just planning on going straight caster with her for most of the game, then focusing on getting her lance and riding skill up via goals/instruction once she's in Bishop to qualify for that), but eh, maybe I can fill that in with a transfer student or instructor/knight.
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    From what I've seen in the campaign your flyers' avoidance is going to be outpacing the accuracy of soldier mobs, so yah that would be a strength of the house.

    I would still say dark knight for Lorenz though, he's pretty much made to end up there
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Spoiler: Also just through BE timeskip
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    Really now? I knew it felt odd that that part was skimmed over a bit like that, but I chalked it up to a hiccup similar to the awkward way you're introduced to the fact that Rhea wants to make you a professor. Interesting to know that there's more detail to it in other routes, I'll be interested to see that.

    And you'd seriously consider siding with the Church there? I never would. As sketchy as Edelgard looked at that moment in the tomb, the Church is worse. Between their totalitarian tendencies, the way Rhea was quite clearly just manipulating and using you for her own unclear ends, plus the way that the stories of most of the students amply display the myriad problems with the feudal system that Edelgard wants to change while the Church supports, and just knowing Edelgard's motives from her supports compared to what we'd seen of Rhea and the church, there's no contest in which side I'd take.
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    Like I say, it's really hard for me to tell because of what I know from the Golden Deer path. Without spoiling anything, it's much more complex.

    I will say that I never had the opinion that the church at large was evil. My initial opinion of Rhea was that she was pretty darn scary, and I also didn't trust Catherine all that much*. The rest of the knights all seemed like good people, and Seteth was humanized by his paralogue. He also clearly wasn't informed of everything Rhea had been up to. The church had some serious issues, but it was in shades of gray and wasn't a monolithic evil organization.

    So being given the choice to side with Edelgard who was on the same side as the Death Knight who rode through Remire Village laughing maniacally shouting "Kill! Kiil!", who was working with the ACTUAL bad guys for the game, at the exact moment where she desecrated a tomb by stealing all the corpses? With a cackling underling that's right out of the villainous side in every Fire Emblem game ever?

    Yeah, I would have hesitated. The game made it clear Rhea wasn't nice, but Edelgard at that point in the game had giant neon "BIG BAD VILLAIN" arrows pointing at her. As I get further into her route she's getting softer and the route is becoming lighter than the pitch black it started with, but at that exact spot in the story she was pretty evil. There's a little bit more I'd like to say, but it involves talking about things from the Golden Deer perspective so I'll hold off.

    The other thing I'll say is that I absolutely despise the "we have to burn the village to save it" mentality that Edelgard espouses. The idea that throwing the entire continent into years of warfare is somehow worth it to take down the church, even if it was a purely evil organization. If they gave you the choice of which House to join at the outset of war (instead of making it church or Edelgard), I would never, ever pick Edelgard. So that's a major element of my decision.

    *I should note here that I've never had a single support with Catherine - this opinion was purely informed by the one mission you share with her. I plan on recruiting her on the Blue Lions route to find out what her deal is



    Oddly enough, I had no Pegasus Knights in my Golden Deer playthrough. I had a flipping ton of Wyvern Riders though. I'm trying to do Byleth as a Falcon Knight on this playthrough, but given that I only have one person that teaches flying it is proving...difficult.

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    Nov 2008
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    So I managed to get Sylvain and Petra to be draco riders...I was gonna make ashe one too... but that's overkill. With Savage blow I really don't need the resistance to tank mage hits...coz they are dead before they can hit back...So he's back to sniper...after taking a detour through thief and brigand... sigh lol...Am also currently in the process of grinding rank c in heavy armor on basically everyone...
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  30. - Top - End - #240
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    LaZodiac's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Three Houses: Reach for my hand, I'll soar away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
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    Like I say, it's really hard for me to tell because of what I know from the Golden Deer path. Without spoiling anything, it's much more complex.

    I will say that I never had the opinion that the church at large was evil. My initial opinion of Rhea was that she was pretty darn scary, and I also didn't trust Catherine all that much*. The rest of the knights all seemed like good people, and Seteth was humanized by his paralogue. He also clearly wasn't informed of everything Rhea had been up to. The church had some serious issues, but it was in shades of gray and wasn't a monolithic evil organization.

    So being given the choice to side with Edelgard who was on the same side as the Death Knight who rode through Remire Village laughing maniacally shouting "Kill! Kiil!", who was working with the ACTUAL bad guys for the game, at the exact moment where she desecrated a tomb by stealing all the corpses? With a cackling underling that's right out of the villainous side in every Fire Emblem game ever?

    Yeah, I would have hesitated. The game made it clear Rhea wasn't nice, but Edelgard at that point in the game had giant neon "BIG BAD VILLAIN" arrows pointing at her. As I get further into her route she's getting softer and the route is becoming lighter than the pitch black it started with, but at that exact spot in the story she was pretty evil. There's a little bit more I'd like to say, but it involves talking about things from the Golden Deer perspective so I'll hold off.

    The other thing I'll say is that I absolutely despise the "we have to burn the village to save it" mentality that Edelgard espouses. The idea that throwing the entire continent into years of warfare is somehow worth it to take down the church, even if it was a purely evil organization. If they gave you the choice of which House to join at the outset of war (instead of making it church or Edelgard), I would never, ever pick Edelgard. So that's a major element of my decision.

    *I should note here that I've never had a single support with Catherine - this opinion was purely informed by the one mission you share with her. I plan on recruiting her on the Blue Lions route to find out what her deal is



    Oddly enough, I had no Pegasus Knights in my Golden Deer playthrough. I had a flipping ton of Wyvern Riders though. I'm trying to do Byleth as a Falcon Knight on this playthrough, but given that I only have one person that teaches flying it is proving...difficult.
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    The Death Knight does not do that, and literally his entire squad won't move to attack you if you don't approach him first. He is there purely as a distraction and to lay in wait for the Slitherers, just in case Edelgard orders it.

    Rhea literally is the Archbishop of the entire religion and her word is canon law. She purges an entire section of the church due to the actions of a few, and says it's their duty to kill all sinners, regardless of their status. That's concerning.


    Corvo-Zodi by Cuthalion. I'm not a murderer, I'm a good person! *kills everyone*
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