Pennyworth

[random11]

So is this technically a Gotham spin-off or not? I can't place it.

Not related to Gotham, loosely related to DC world itself (Unless there is some obscure comic I'm unaware of).

Only characters so far are Alfred, Thomas Wayne and Martha, and it's in London and not Gotham so it doesn't look like it's going to be related to any Batman villain.

[dancrilis]

... so it doesn't look like it's going to be related to any Batman villain.

Well Gotham had a bit of a creative licence with that.

Seperately I think it is best to look at it (and Gotham) as a live action comic book - rather than a live action television series.

Comic books are frequently all over the place (in tone, content ect) - television follows clear behaviour.

[random11]

Well Gotham had a bit of a creative licence with that.

Seperately I think it is best to look at it (and Gotham) as a live action comic book - rather than a live action television series.

Comic books are frequently all over the place (in tone, content ect) - television follows clear behaviour.

I don't see why it should make a difference.

Comics and TV shows are different art forms, but in terms of basic criticism they are the same.
An adaptation, regardless of the form can be good or it can be bad, it can be meaningful or pointless, it can come from the heart and the will to try new things or it can come from cynical marketing reasons.

The only difference is that comics tend to be more "adventures" since it's cheaper to produce, but that's not my problem when I ask or talk about how good a show is by itself or as an adaptation.

In terms of quality, I think Pennyworth is on the lead compared to Gotham (although it's hard to tell, since I don't remember what I thought of Gotham in the first season)
But in terms of an adaptation, I can't stop the feeling that Gotham tried something and failed, while Pennyworth tried to distance itself as much as possible, and attach the Batman franchise only for marketing reasons.

[random11]

So far, Unrelated to the adaptation question, the show is pretty good but my main problem is that it's all over the place.

Pretty much just started, and we already have three unrelated stories in parallel:
The personal story of Alfred, how he deals with his anger issues and how he sees himself in the world.
Thomas and Martha, the story pretty much just started to kick in during the previous episode.
The clans, societies, CIA, and all the other stuff around that.

While I do believe the three plots will somehow combine later, I also think that's a bit too much to chew on, especially in the first season when non of the characters are established.
IMO, the season should have been about Alfred's story alone, with Thomas and Martha as support characters and the rest as fluff and atmosphere alone.

But I guess I'll see where they want to take it, who knows, maybe the raven thing will go somewhere interesting.

[Palanan]

Another month, another free Epix preview, so I decided to pick up where I left off and try Episode 4.

I made it about thirty minutes, had to pause for something, and then realized I had no interest in resuming.

Spoiler

Show

Partly this is because it seems so utterly ridiculous that Bruce Wayne’s parents met in England while working for some clandestine organization that does…something, I’m not entirely sure what.

And I don’t really care, because an action-hero background for Alfred is stretching it enough, but giving Thomas and Martha Wayne secret histories in a secret war is just ludicrous, and completely undoes the characters as I’ve always known them.

So, I will just let this one go. The pilot had such promise, but I can’t understand why they insisted on throwing in Batman’s parents. Not to mention, you know, pretty much every other design and character decision they made for this show.

[random11]

Episode 10

On the positive side, they finally combined the three different plots.
Well, sort of, since the plot line I was worried will be tossed aside was pretty much ignored.

On the negative side, combining three plots where only one was actually interesting meant it's now one plot that I'm only 1/3 invested in.

I would complain about how ridiculously fast paced this episode was, but it felt like eternity since it was just BORING.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by random11
On the positive side, they finally combined the three different plots.

Wait, there were plots? That must have happened after I bowed out.

Please feel free to elaborate, in spoilers if you like. I won't be investing much more time in this, but I do have a lingering interest in what exactly is going on.

[random11]

Wait, there were plots? That must have happened after I bowed out.

Please feel free to elaborate, in spoilers if you like. I won't be investing much more time in this, but I do have a lingering interest in what exactly is going on.

Well, perhaps "plot" is a bit generous to describe it, but it's shorter than saying "a jumble of random sentences" every time.

First one is the only one I consider decent, which is Alfred himself, his friends and family.
Soldier comes back from the war, torn between violence and the desire to live a quiet life, finds a loved one, loses a loves one, avenges a loved one, and gets into more complicated businesses as a result of his choices.
Nothing new or innovative, but all things considered it's okay, and with a decent actor to play the role.

Second is everything between Thomas and Martha.
The only purpose of this plot and characters in general is only to remind us that this show is somehow related to Batman, and as a result it's only a distraction from what could have been a fine show.
The "plot" for this is generally which of them works for which group and why, constant bickering, and an endless wait for the obvious romantic relationship.
The only exception is an event in episode 6-7, which you have to see in order to believe, but it was pretty much ignored in later episodes.

Third is the political stuff.
We've got the British government, the Ravens, the No-names, and the CIA.
I wish I could describe the differences between the groups, motivation, or relevance to the main plot, but this is usually when I dose off for a few minutes.
The climax of this was in the last episode, and it was done so fast it was boring, laughable and merciful all at the same time.
Think about this: Kidnapping the queen of England, starting a coup, and resolving it in about 20 minutes while still wasting time in the middle and with enough leftover for an epilogue.



Could it have been a good show? Maybe.
I'll repeat what I wrote earlier in the thread - what they should have done is:
1) Focus only on Alfred's personal life - Family, his attempts to start a business and relationships.
2) Keep Wayne out.
If they insist on the connection, just toss him in one episode that he hires Alfred, give him a business card "if he ever wants a job in Gotham", and at the end of the series, just show that Alfred is looking at the card.
3) Make the political stuff only as a background fluff to contribute to the main plot, and then MAYBE in the second season make them more relevant when the groups are more defined.