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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Would he go to Hell or would he go to the Dark One's domain?
    Are the faithful followers of Evil deities spared the punishment of the lower planes?

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    He would go to the Dark One's domain... which is on one of the Lower Planes.

    Probably Acheron.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    He would go to the Dark One's domain... which is on one of the Lower Planes.

    Probably Acheron.

    Definitely Acheron.

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    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    If it's not stated in the comic, it's still just a "probably". A god's domain can differ from the general traits of whatever plane it's on!
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    The same place Jirix went. To his God, the Dark One. Providing he actually dies, and is not devoured by Snarl or does not get any other "special" comeuppance.
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    There must be some sense of order - personal, political or dramatic - and if no one else is going to bring it to this world, I will.

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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kruploy View Post
    Are the faithful followers of Evil deities spared the punishment of the lower planes?
    I feel this needs some clarification too. The lower planes aren't supposed to be punishment, they're just places that work the way evil people think things should work: the strong subjugate the weak. Evil people just usually think they are the strong ones.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    I feel this needs some clarification too. The lower planes aren't supposed to be punishment, they're just places that work the way evil people think things should work: the strong subjugate the weak. Evil people just usually think they are the strong ones.
    Huh. I thought evil people were tortured down in the lower planes. I suppose that means people like Redcloak will get away with everything at the very end. It is up to the Dark One of course but I can't imagine him actually tormenting Redcloak for no reason unless he ****s up real bad.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kruploy View Post
    Huh. I thought evil people were tortured down in the lower planes. I suppose that means people like Redcloak will get away with everything at the very end. It is up to the Dark One of course but I can't imagine him actually tormenting Redcloak for no reason unless he ****s up real bad.
    Unfortunately for dear Wrongeye success is not a particularly common cause of death in his line of work.
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Unless he forsakes the Dark One, he'd go to the Dark One's domain, which is apparently somewhere in Acheron?

    If it turns out the Dark One is actually a Lawful Neutral character with strong Evil tendencies so loads of goblins are sent there to fight battles...I guess fighting Slaadi would work?
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    the Dark One is actually a Lawful Neutral character with strong Evil tendencies
    Pardon me. How does that work?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kruploy View Post
    Pardon me. How does that work?
    Magic, of course.

    The Dark One actively strived to improve the relations between Goblins and Humans, and even went out of his way for diplomatic negotiations. Okay, that's the sign of a great leader, not G/N/E, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut eh. It strikes me as a more Good/Neutral thing to do than Evil though.
    Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-07-24 at 08:46 PM.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    Magic, of course.

    The Dark One actively strived to improve the relations between Goblins and Humans, and even went out of his way for diplomatic negotiations. Okay, that's the sign of a great leader, not G/N/E, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut eh. It strikes me as a more Good/Neutral thing to do than Evil though.
    Hmmn. Is selfishness evil? I think not. The Dark One could be Neutral yeah.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kruploy View Post
    Hmmn. Is selfishness evil? I think not. The Dark One could be Neutral yeah.
    Just because 98% of your demographic doesn't share you alignment doesn't mean it won't work- look at Thor! He's Chaotic or at least Neutral Good, but the dwarves are super duper Lawful with the odd Neutral.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
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    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    If he's camped in Acheron, then yes, TDO straddles the LN/LE line.

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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kruploy View Post
    Huh. I thought evil people were tortured down in the lower planes. I suppose that means people like Redcloak will get away with everything at the very end. It is up to the Dark One of course but I can't imagine him actually tormenting Redcloak for no reason unless he ****s up real bad.
    Most evil people are tortured in most of the evil afterlives, but the truly despicable and cutthroat end up becoming fiends and getting to do the torturing (at least in the great wheel cosmology as it's usually used). Acheron, however, is the lawful evil plane that leans towards lawful neutral (or vice versa). You don't get tortured there, you just fight in endless wars across an endless sea of giant floating metal cubes for no reason.

    It's kinda like Valhalla except instead of fighting for glory and then going to drink beer with all your friends you fight because some god or archfiend said so and then go fight some more. Also if you get killed you don't magically resurrect to partake in said beer drinking (if there was any that is).
    Last edited by RatElemental; 2019-07-25 at 06:41 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    If he's camped in Acheron, then yes, TDO straddles the LN/LE line.
    I think he jaws been stated as LE. A god doesn’t nessicarly reside on the plane whose alignment matches their own.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kruploy View Post
    Would he go to Hell or would he go to the Dark One's domain?
    Are the faithful followers of Evil deities spared the punishment of the lower planes?
    Probably Dark One's Domain, that may or may not be within the Nine Hells or Acheron (or someplace else). Certainly not Hel, because only dwarves go there.
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    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    Lawful Neutral character with strong Evil tendencies
    Is there anything functionally separating "Neutral with strong Evil tendencies" and "Evil but kind of low-level Evil" other than the words? It seems like a distinction without a difference.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Is there anything functionally separating "Neutral with strong Evil tendencies" and "Evil but kind of low-level Evil" other than the words? It seems like a distinction without a difference.
    Only in the sense of "Did this white shirt get really grubby, or did this black shirt fade a lot?". Direction of travel can be important, but only if you are interested in that.

    It really does seem to be on Acheron, which makes sense as I suspect The Dark One wouldn't trust The Archfiends too much and Tiamat as a neighbour would probably bug him, considering what he now knows (all that assuming that the world of Oots is as the standard 3.5 DnD setting, which it usually is).
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kruploy View Post
    Huh. I thought evil people were tortured down in the lower planes. I suppose that means people like Redcloak will get away with everything at the very end. It is up to the Dark One of course but I can't imagine him actually tormenting Redcloak for no reason unless he ****s up real bad.
    Evil people are tortured on the lower planes, but that's because they're surrounded by other evil creatures, not because of some systematic policy.

    You START as a 2HD petitioner, no matter how strong you were in life. Which means everyone enters at the bottom of the heap in a dog eat dog utterly ruthless world where there are epic level creatures in large numbers, so it doesn't matter how strong you were in life, you're nothing much in death.

    As for the Dark One protecting Red Cloak, is that like how he's "protecting" every living goblin by endangering their souls on the basis that if he loses he can have a voice in the next world (he thinks, not realizing that he's unlikely to survive to the next world).

    Or is it more like how Red Cloak "protected" the 10,000 hobgoblins that he DELIBERATELY got killed, or the entirety of his brother's peaceful village which was ALSO living in peace with the neighboring humans or the way he "protected" his "beloved" little brother by murdering him.

    I would not care to count on the Dark One's good will in the afterlife when a tool is no longer of significant use to him. This is a god whose alleged GOOD deed was to try extortion rather than murder.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    Evil people are tortured on the lower planes, but that's because they're surrounded by other evil creatures, not because of some systematic policy.
    Depends on the plane. In the Hells it definitely is policy, indeed it is a major industry, because you can get divine power out of it. I think it might be policy in Hades too, because the daemons deal with their being trapped there by making out like they are jailer for the petitioners (less sure of that). In the abyss, its because they are surrounded on all sides by every flavour of sadistic sociopath imaginable and are weaker.
    GNU Terry Pratchett

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilDMMk3 View Post
    Depends on the plane. In the Hells it definitely is policy, indeed it is a major industry, because you can get divine power out of it. I think it might be policy in Hades too, because the daemons deal with their being trapped there by making out like they are jailer for the petitioners (less sure of that). In the abyss, its because they are surrounded on all sides by every flavour of sadistic sociopath imaginable and are weaker.
    Ultimately, all the afterlives are the answer to the question "what would a world inhabited only by that one alignment look like"? For the Evil planes, that answer is "Awful for all involved".

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Havran View Post
    The same place Jirix went. To his God, the Dark One.
    Let's add another vote to this answer.
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  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    As for the Dark One protecting Red Cloak, is that like how he's "protecting" every living goblin by endangering their souls on the basis that if he loses he can have a voice in the next world (he thinks, not realizing that he's unlikely to survive to the next world).
    The gods don't care about their High Priests to the point of being willing to sacrifice everything for them, but I imagine they'd give them an important role within their domain. And for someone like TDO who has had only a couple High Priests? Redcloak is probably quite important to him (in the "this is my most trusted Sargent" sense).
    That doesn't mean RC will start off with double HD and super omega powers, but he will probably be a candidate for a tactician or be chosen to in charge of rallying the troops. You don't need to shoot uber lasers to be strong.
    *is tempted to make godchild pun*
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
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    "I think, therefore I am,
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    I sleep, therefore I dream;
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    TDO is explicitly stated to be an evil god by in SoD when meeting his nephew for the first time.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel View Post
    TDO is explicitly stated to be an evil god by in SoD when meeting his nephew for the first time.
    Sure he represents an evil religion, but c'mon man that doesn't mean he has to be evil! Get with the times!
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    And for someone like TDO who has had only a couple High Priests
    Couple? Start of Darkness lists at least four others, just since the Crimson Mantle was made.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Couple? Start of Darkness lists at least four others, just since the Crimson Mantle was made.
    In comparison to most other gods, who have had more high priests than there are people alive on the current world.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

  29. - Top - End - #29
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Given that The Dark One has only risen recently he can't have had that many High Priests compared to other gods. Also, given that The Dark One was special and not like the other goblins just by virtue of having class levels, and that the other bearers of the Crimson Mantle had much shorter tenures in the position than Redcloak (Redcloak has had it for a large chunk of time that it has existed, and he's at least the 4th one to wear it) it is pretty likely that Redcloak is among the highest level goblin characters to have existed and may well be the most powerful goblin character ever. What with their short life spans, the indication that goblins didn't have PC class levels until The Dark One came about, and the fact that they cling to the edges of civilization it seems pretty likely. From a meta perspective, how often do campaigns actually have high level goblin NPCs? They are almost exclusively mooks and low level villains.

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    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?

    Being evil doesn't mean you're evil

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