Results 61 to 90 of 125
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2019-09-10, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2017
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
I'd argue that selfishness is chaotic, selfishness doesn't mean that you'll never give anything to somebody else, it just means that you do things for your sake without regards to somebody else's thought of the matter
a chaotic good person can for example empty the storehouses to feed the poor without jusrisdiction or regard that they'd need those supplies later
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2019-09-10, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
that's not selfish
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2019-09-10, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2017
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2019-09-10, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
idk illegal charity?
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2019-09-10, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Now Redcloak is gone
Where the good Goblins go
And no more with Redcloak will I roam
But if Goblins have a heaven there is one thing i know
Redcloak has a wonderful homeOriginally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
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2019-09-10, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2017
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
the point is that you do something because you want to do something (in this case the something you want to do is a good act) and wether or not you're allowed to do that something or if other people want you to do that something isn't important to you, to me that's selfishness, only what you want to do matters and damn the rest
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2019-09-10, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Selfishness is being self serving. This is a case for doing something to help others, but doing it outside of social structures and in opposition to authority.
Is a lawful evil character who uses the legal system to screw over people and get their money so they can be filthy rich not being selfish?
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2019-09-10, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Evil is actually defined as selfishness in 3.5, at least partially. Breaking into the storehouse to give the food to everyone would be chaotic good or maybe chaotic neutral at worst. Long term planning doesn't tend to be chaos' strong suit, but stealing from the rich to give to the poor is one of the classic archetypes that define what chaotic goodness is.
But your definition of selfishness can apply to literally everyone. The only reason anyone does anything ever is because they wanted to do it, on some level. Well, except for duress.Last edited by RatElemental; 2019-09-10 at 05:02 PM.
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2019-09-10, 05:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-09-14, 04:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
- Location
- Czech Republic
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
I hope that archetype you mentioned is not official, because it's completely wrong. Wealth has nothing to do with morality, there might well be Good rich and Evil poor. Goodness is about reducing suffering and opposing Evil, not about stealing and violating personal property rights.
There must be some sense of order - personal, political or dramatic - and if no one else is going to bring it to this world, I will.
Silent member of Zz'dtri's #698 Scrying Sensor Explanation Club.
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2019-09-14, 05:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
- Gender
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2019-09-15, 09:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
I don't know why, beyond PR. The lays make it clear his M.O. is a: take what I want, b: split with victim, c: let victim keep (mainly religious items) and lastly d: split three ways between myself, the victim and the poor (with a convenience fee for taking things to the poor). This does not scan as CG to me.
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2019-09-16, 03:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
"Is the Dark One morally justified?"
The interesting thing about the Dark One is that, if he just took the time to talk with the other gods, he might be able to end this entire conflict right now; they all need his quiddity to reinforce the world long-term, and he could simply agree to provide it on the condition that goblins get a better deal.
I'm guessing though that he's as bound to his programming (as coded by his followers and high priest, who fundamentally distrust all non-goblins). And amusingly, his followers feel that way precisely because all the other gods made them to be fodder races for their non-goblin adventurers in the first place. What a tangle.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2019-09-16, 04:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Yeah, the Dark one should totally talk to the gods, they sure look like a nice honest bunch that never told a lie to anyone, no sir! Which one should be first spoken to?
The Twelve gods that have been sponsoring an order of bloodthirsty psycopaths that constantly slaughter (goblinoid) women and children and live in a city that used to run in scheming and assassinations?
Senile Odin?
Loki the liar?
Thor "crossbow marriage or Hel(l), also I granted my followers a racial bonus to make them better at slaughtering goblinkind, because the only good gob is a dead gob, also you better die covered in blood or you still get Hel(l)" the drunk that tried to kill the Dark One first time they met?
Hel "I hate everything and everybody"?
Tiamat "I can see everything! Wait why did one fifth of black dragons suddenly died crapcrapcrap"?
Oh my, all of those surely look like completely trustworthy fellows, clearly it's 100% the Dark One's fault for not blindly following their orders while they reward their followers for butchering goblin women and children. Surely they wouldn't just backstab the Dark One once they consider they don't need him around anymore. Like how he died the first time before ascending.
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2019-09-16, 04:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Fair enough on these.
We don't know Thor made dwarves, we have only circumstantial evidence he has anything to do with arranged marriages being a thing (but I'm doubtful of that), and you say the "die covered in blood" bit as if he likes this state of affairs. Fair enough on trying to kill the dark one though.
That said, there are gasp! Other Gods you didn't list! Besides, he can't be attacked now without risking another snarl. The problem is establishing a place for him in the framework to allow communication without that risk. Well, if he were willing to play ball. His unwillingness to do so is a second roadblock for that to happen.
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2019-09-16, 04:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
I like how deuterio's gripes with Thor are completely made up.
(Also, we don't know that Tiamat is all-seeing, even if her Oracle is and his power derives from her)Last edited by hroþila; 2019-09-16 at 04:55 AM.
ungelic is us
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2019-09-16, 05:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Well the thing is, no one cares about the lays, the basics of Robin Hood in culture is steal from the rich, give to the poor, something that is generally considered Chaotic Good (cause no one likes the rich, and the rich are superior to the poor and earned it, and the rich are big meany-heads and should be punished {Scrubbed} ), and that is what is adapted time and time again, take from the wealthy who don’t deserve the money and don’t need it and use it to help the poor who do (basically involuntary taxation through Robin Hood).
Last edited by truemane; 2019-09-16 at 07:21 AM.
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-09-16, 09:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2019-09-16, 11:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Oxford, UK
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
And there's also the likelihood that he doesn't even know that the strange purple-aura-thingy that's been floating around him since he ascended has any of the significance that we now know about... after all, the rest of the Gods, even Loki, Rat and Tiamat, didn't tell him about the Snarl, he had to find out about it on his own - and promptly stopped talking to even Loki, Rat & Tiamat. So how would he know about the significance of his unique quiddity being able to combine with the quiddity of the other Gods?
As far as he knows about the rest of the Gods they (a) are the jerks who created his race to be adventurer fodder in the first place; (b) encourage their races to slaughter his followers for XP; (c) contain some that tried to destroy him on sight; and (d) even the ones that tried to talk to him were lying and concealing stuff from him, probably still are*.
So he really has no reason to take the time to trust any of them, even to talk to, until he has leverage....
(*And if he does think this, he's probably right: it's quite possible that he isn't aware this isn't the second world...)Last edited by DeliaP; 2019-09-16 at 11:06 AM.
Geez, what is it with that guy and needing to figure out all the fiddly little details?
I know, right? It's called "Suspension of Disbelief"...
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2019-09-16, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
I highly doubt that the Dark One knows there's been more than 2 worlds. That would likely involve explaining how all those other worlds were destroyed, which the others clearly didn't do.
The point seems to be that this whole problem could've been avoided by actually communicating.
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2019-09-16, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-09-16, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
I definitely can lay some of the blame on Loki too, he can't be honest (to anyone but Thor, who just discovered his physical inability) and so he really shouldn't be trying to lead anything thats end goal is honesty, Thor does trust Loki's self-preservation instincts and so trusting Loki to follow his "help yourself above all else" philosophy and tell TDO when the time is right is reasonable when you think he isn't physically unable to be honest.
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-09-16, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-09-16, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-09-16, 07:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-09-16, 07:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-09-16, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2019-09-17, 06:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Jumping in a bit late in the conversation here, but honestly, I have my own pet theory as to Redcloak's status after his demise. To wit, I feel it is very likely that he will become the second member of the new 'purple pantheon' when he dies. Though we don't know all the details of the transition from mortals to gods, we know it requires:
-a large amount of power on the mortal plane
-many believers/followers to carry on your legend after one dies
-either a ridiculously large amount of dedication to them OR sponsorship from previous deities of the same pantheon.
As it stands, Redcloak is more powerful than any goblin that ever existed except perhaps the dark one himself, he already is known more by a menacing moniker than his actual name, more than 10,000 goblin have died for him, and a nation has been created in his wake before he vanished once more as a martyr to the goblin cause. Honestly, I feel gods have been built on less than that. As for his actual plane, depending on whether he attempts some sort of redemption or not and what his final legacy looks like, he might either end up as pure Lawful or, more likely given all he's done, some sort of Hell/pure LE plane.
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2019-09-17, 08:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Again, I feel like Redcloak isn't gonna end up rewarded. He wants two things: Equality for goblins, and vindication for
. He'll get the first one, but he'll never get the second. It will not have ended up all having been "worth it", as he put it.Spoilerhaving murdered his little brother
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2019-09-17, 09:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Why? What substantially differentiates Redcloak from The Dark One? TDO is a Lawful Evil goblin who wants equality for all goblinoids and is willing to use any means at his disposal to achieve that. Redcloak is... well, a Lawful Evil goblin who wants equality for all goblinoids and is willing to use any means at his disposal to achieve that, and also is green.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2