Results 91 to 120 of 125
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2019-09-17, 09:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2015
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Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
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2019-09-17, 09:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2019
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-09-17, 09:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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2019-09-17, 09:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2019
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
You can, but that requires more prayer on my part, and its perfectly possible to exist in a pantheon without worship from anyone, not something one would want because it seems to kill you, but I feel like to be raised you need more than just a bunch of deaths and whatnot, especially since they are clearly still for TDO, because why would I worship Thors pet dog?
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-09-17, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Last edited by Peelee; 2019-09-17 at 09:55 AM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-09-17, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2015
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Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Because Redcloak isn't any mere minion, he's a living legend in his own right. He may have been doing it all in the name of The Dark One, but he was the Supreme Leader, he marched his armies on the gates of Azure City, and he built a nation in the ashes of his people's bitterest foe.
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2019-09-17, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Exactly. They practically worship him already in the figurative sense and that's only one step removed from actual religious worship. The hobgoblins seemingly adore him and are blindly loyal to him, the only hints of disapproval being the racist hobgoblin prisoner and what the ill-fated patrol said about Shelby.
Last edited by hroțila; 2019-09-17 at 10:18 AM.
ungelic is us
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2019-09-17, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Of course, it was Xykon who did in Shelby instead of promoting him.
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2019-09-17, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Given what we know about The Dark One it's not that unlikely that Redcloak is the highest level goblin in history (most personally powerful) and likely the most accomplished. There's never been a goblin nation before iirc? Being a warlord is different from being a nation builder.
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2019-09-17, 11:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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2019-09-17, 11:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Because he's the high priest of The Dark One and also was leader of their nation-state, founded under the banner of TDO.
The hobgoblins were certainly on their way, and their Supreme Leader was blindly followed (which was what gave Reddie his foot in the door there).
Nothing Redcloak has done seems substantially different than what the Dark One wanted to do, and everything has been done in The Dark One's name. This would be like the northern pantheon having Thor, then Steve, the oddly named dwarf who built a Thoric nation while acting as the high priest of Thor, uniting all Thorites under the banner of Thor. Steve ain't gone get deified, because at best he'd be Thor Jr.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-09-17, 11:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Just because he did it in The Dark One's name doesn't mean he didn't make the decisions and do the leg work.
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2019-09-17, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2015
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Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Counterpoint: Dvalin, First King of the Dwarves.
If the Northern Pantheon was less populous, I could easily see Dvalin becoming more than a mere demigod.
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2019-09-17, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-09-17, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
I really don't see why that would matter when it comes to worshipping Redcloak, but regardless, from what we've seen, the goblinoids care about Redcloak as their leader more than they do about Redcloak as their high priest, which is an aspect of Redcloak they haven't discussed at all on panel. In fact, IIRC, the only non-cleric goblinoids who talk about the Dark One at all are Right-Eye (eventually in a negative way), Oona (in a neutral and more or less detached way) and Redcloak's potential date in SOD (in a positive and clearly devout way). In my opinion, the vast majority of goblinoids figuratively-worship Redcloak for his own sake, not as an agent of the Dark One, and that's how he'd come to be for-reals-worshipped.
Last edited by hroțila; 2019-09-17 at 11:50 AM.
ungelic is us
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2019-09-17, 11:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2015
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Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
One, we can't really prove he wasn't. Not that it matters too much one way or the other because...
Two, of course it isn't the same thing, but it's a decent analogue. Redcloak is the First Supreme Leader of Gobbotopia- he's the one who led their army to glory and conquest against the Azurites. He did it in The Dark One's name, yes, but the crucial bit is that he did it. Not The Dark One. Him. Redcloak.
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2019-09-17, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Note that outside of Start of Darkness [and other non-web material] Xykon's reason for becoming a lich is entirely to avoid this future: it is completely reasonable that Redcloak's (and Belkar's) future won't be good.
Redcloak's future also entirely depends on the passing the "don't screw this up" test. Should he fail (and the order & gods manage to keep the universe together), he can expect an eternity in the Dark One's torture facilities...
I've been assuming that Belkar would have a bit more of an advantage on the plains of Hades (battlefield), but that is still the best means for him to truly become the "sexy shoeless god of war".
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2019-09-17, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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2019-09-17, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
You just named the other two significant goblinoids who arent clerics, Right-Eye only grew detached through the Plan (which was only known by a few) and Oona and the bugbears explicitly dont care about TDO, or Redcloak and are seperate from the other goblinoids, Jirix is Well-liked and the first thing he brings up is TDO, to massive applause for everything he says.
I think the important thing is he explicitly always puts TDO above him, every single time he leads, showing he does it in a way that wont cause him to be remembered as a god.Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-09-17, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Last edited by Peelee; 2019-09-17 at 12:04 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-09-17, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
I disagree that explicit submission to a higher deity would preclude Redcloak from being worshipped. Obvious real-world religion reference not included.
ungelic is us
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2019-09-17, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Honestly, I don't feel as if this is a disqualifier. After all, multiple polytheistic religions have one god 'above' the others (Zeus, Odin, sort of Ra/Osiris). Any new affiliates of TDO pantheon would probably be of lower rank than TDO, whether they worshipped him in life or not. And while in most cases, many of the gods of polytheistic religions are usually of a single deific family, some of them included promotion of real life mortals, such as in Rome and Egypt, where major leaders such as Caesars and Pharaohs would be 'deified' and prayed to after their death.
In a slightly more controversial example, even monotheistic religions have saints or other major figures that can be to some extent prayed to, even though they are all clearly on a lower order than the one god.
To top it off, Oots has VERY clearly established that these pantheons can readily expand with mortals.
Most other addendums I had on the subject were perfectly well expressed by hroțila.Last edited by Darkone; 2019-09-17 at 12:45 PM.
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2019-09-17, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Again, i'd say the biggest flaw in the "Redcloak ascends" senarciuo is the one where he gets rewarded. Why should an evil ******* getting to continue being an evil ******* but now as a god, be considered a happy and fulfilling ending?
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2019-09-17, 02:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
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Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
BTW, it isn't worrisome at all that a personality cult will turn the worshipped person in a honest-to-God god.
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
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2019-09-17, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
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2019-09-17, 03:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Well with another purple god, that increases the chances of there being a purple god who will work with the others to save the world for good. As a side effect of the dark one no longer being the sole gate keeper of sponsorship into the pantheon, the chances of neutral and then good gods ascending to purple also increases.
It is also possible that if Redcloak did ascend, it would be after a heel realization or possibly even full blown heel face turn.
I don't think it's particularly likely he'll ascend at all, but if he does I expect it would be, narratively, to facilitate the world not ending.
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2019-09-17, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
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2019-09-17, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2015
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Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Maybe he becomes the Patron Deity of Thresholds- both in that he helps keep the Gates closed, and he's an object lesson in which lines you shouldn't cross.
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2019-09-20, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2019
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- Florida
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Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
As I understand it, in the OotS-verse a soul's disposition is first done by pantheon. Note that Roy was already separated from the Azurites before any kind of judgement. Also note that the different pantheons have been shown to be able to do basically nothing together without great difficulty.
I'm not sure how exactly Roy was matched with the deva that judged his case, but I think it's fair to assume that the northern gods (collectively) set that policy.
Also I'm not sure if the dark one puts stock in the standard alignment system, so I think a goblin's fate is determined solely by what The Dark One thinks of you.
He did it in his mother's name. page #422, last panel.
More than one religion does that.
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2019-09-22, 09:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
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Re: If Redcloak died, where would he go?
Odds are if there was a Good Goblin (I dunno, maybe that one dead hobgoblin?) who worshipped TDO but wasn't a Cleric they would be sent to the standard Good afterlife? Or maybe they'd go to TDO's place and fight the battles anyways?
We're nearing the point where we probably need to cite someone's work in order to get an idea.An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
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I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
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