The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Okay, up-front, I just want to say that I'm answering the question in the title, not actually asking it. I have a theory that I haven't seen anyone mention so I'm gonna put it out there because why not.

    Alright, so. Here's what we know: The Oracle of the Sunken Valley prophesied that "Belkar will draw his last breath- ever- before the end of the year."

    Now, obviously, the interpretation of "Belkar dies and goes to Hell" is a completely reasonable one. I don't blame anyone for taking the prophecy at face value and assuming he's just gonna straight-up die, no frills. That's reasonable, and if it's what ends up happening, I won't have any trouble accepting that.

    But here's the thing: Vampires don't breathe. There's a vampire-shaped loose end running around, and it's entirely possible she's there for more than just giving Hel and Loki something to talk about briefly before they move into "I'll kill you!"

    The Teal Deer(TL;DR) here is, "what if Belkar fulfills the Oracle's prophecy by becoming a vampire?"

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Belkar will still be on the world (another thing the Oracle said he wouldn’t do), and, um, change the title? Because that is very misleading, the answer to that question is of course “HARDCORE introspection” (I.e. redemption).

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Given how vampires work here, Belkar being turned into a vampire means Belkar becoming trapped inside his own head. Given that we have already gone trough such a plot this book, that would be boresome repetitive. Also the Party already knows how vampires work so they would know that the vampire is not him and would kill him on the spot.

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    Given how vampires work here, Belkar being turned into a vampire means Belkar becoming trapped inside his own head. Given that we have already gone trough such a plot this book, that would be boresome repetitive. Also the Party already knows how vampires work so they would know that the vampire is not him and would kill him on the spot.
    Unless vampire Belkar convinces them that he'd actually be less of a hassle to deal with than mundane Belkar.

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by HorizonWalker View Post
    Okay, up-front, I just want to say that I'm answering the question in the title, not actually asking it. I have a theory that I haven't seen anyone mention so I'm gonna put it out there because why not.

    Alright, so. Here's what we know: The Oracle of the Sunken Valley prophesied that "Belkar will draw his last breath- ever- before the end of the year."

    Now, obviously, the interpretation of "Belkar dies and goes to Hell" is a completely reasonable one. I don't blame anyone for taking the prophecy at face value and assuming he's just gonna straight-up die, no frills. That's reasonable, and if it's what ends up happening, I won't have any trouble accepting that.

    But here's the thing: Vampires don't breathe. There's a vampire-shaped loose end running around, and it's entirely possible she's there for more than just giving Hel and Loki something to talk about briefly before they move into "I'll kill you!"

    The Teal Deer(TL;DR) here is, "what if Belkar fulfills the Oracle's prophecy by becoming a vampire?"
    I'm afraid you are not even in the first ten to suggest this. Vampires may not breathe, but they definitely stay in this world, so the only way Belkar can stay within the "not long for this world" portion of the prophecy is, in addition to becoming chained inside his own head by a negative energy spirit, is if that spirit then somehow ends up in the outer planes.

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-08-22 at 04:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    And I don't see why vampires couldn't enjoy cake. Or retire.
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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    After just going through all of this vampire stuff with Durkon, you really think the "subversion" of Belkar's prophecy is just going to amount to doing that over again?

    As others have said, even if you can wiggle room a single piece of what the Oracle said, when you piece all of the things he's said only leads to one conclusion: Belkar's permanent death.
    I'd just like to point out that saying that something unsupported is the case unless someone else can prove that it is not is an utter failure of logic. - Kish

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Also, Curly is out of spells, low-level, alone, running away and scared of Belkar. I will admit that I would be very surprised if she turned out to be the one to do him in.
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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Worldsong View Post
    Unless vampire Belkar convinces them that he'd actually be less of a hassle to deal with than mundane Belkar.
    LOL! I could actually see this.

    Roy: Kill him! He's a vampire!
    Belkarula: Wait! Wait! Yes, I am a vampire. But Belker's darkest day was the day he had to pay attention in class and behave. I was created to fill that hole. So…
    Haley: He does have a point.
    Roy:
    Durkon: …
    Last edited by xroads; 2019-08-22 at 05:01 PM.

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by xroads View Post
    LOL! I could actually see this.

    Roy: Kill him! He's a vampire!
    Belkarula: Wait! Wait! Yes, I am a vampire. But Belker's darkest day was the day he had to pay attention in class and behave. I was created to fill that hole. So…
    Haley: He does have a point.
    Roy:
    Durkon: …
    I mean I’d say his worst day was the same day as Tarquin’s, so I’m not sure what that would do.

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I mean I’d say his worst day was the same day as Tarquin’s, so I’m not sure what that would do.
    "Are you Evil now?"
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    Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-08-22 at 05:00 PM.
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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    I was going to say a combination of hubris and gravity because that's what always gets me in Dark Souls.

    But then I remembered that's what killed Roy.

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    At Roy's judgement in the afterlife, they had to come up with a meaningful unit of evil to describe Belkar's evil -- Kilonazi's. Belkar was hovering at 3 Kilonazi's when he first met Roy, and then hovered at around 1, after meeting Roy. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html

    Were Belkar turned into a vampire, his new driver might be less evil than Belkar.

    Roy: "How evil are you?"
    Belkar*: "Surprisingly, not as evil as Belkar. Frankly, Belkar terrifies me."
    Roy: ....


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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    I was going to say a combination of hubris and gravity because that's what always gets me in Dark Souls.

    But then I remembered that's what killed Roy.
    True, but gravity isn't stingy, it'll kill everyone as many times as needs be.

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by xroads View Post
    LOL! I could actually see this.

    Roy: Kill him! He's a vampire!
    Belkarula: Wait! Wait! Yes, I am a vampire. But Belker's darkest day was the day he had to pay attention in class and behave. I was created to fill that hole. So…
    Haley: He does have a point.
    Roy:
    Durkon: …
    If a vampire spirit was built around that memory, he wouldn't be well-behaved. He would resent and instinctively rebel against all authority, because that was what made his host sit up and listen against his will. He would be like the old Belkar, only more focused. Bad news all around.
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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by hroþila View Post
    If a vampire spirit was built around that memory, he wouldn't be well-behaved. He would resent and instinctively rebel against all authority, because that was what made his host sit up and listen against his will. He would be like the old Belkar, only more focused. Bad news all around.
    What about a vampire made from this memory (I'd do Durkan's death, but that strip doesn't even show Belkar)? Because I feel like a vampire made from that would have a good chance of being good.

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    What about a vampire made from this memory (I'd do Durkan's death, but that strip doesn't even show Belkar)? Because I feel like a vampire made from that would have a good chance of being good.
    I suspect that the negative energy that vampires are made of twists any possible goodness into evil.

    So far as I can read that scene Belkar is feeling guilt and shame, for being too weak and for having someone else die to protect him. His vampire self could just become one of the most power hungry creatures out there.
    Last edited by Worldsong; 2019-08-22 at 08:11 PM.

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    And I don't see why vampires couldn't enjoy cake. Or retire.
    Vampires usually have trouble digesting or even enjoying non-blood food. We can't be sure that is the case in OotS, but it is not an unreasonable hypothesis. And the problem with immortality is that you can't retire, because you aren't getting any older, and thus at best you'd take sabbaticals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    You're not the first person to suggest this. Vampires are still in the world. Plus, it's not like this is any better for Belkar: I imagine Vampire him would basically just go "huh, well, it looks like your past mainly consists of random destruction and murder: So pretty similar to your future then! But, uh, what's this crap about caring for another creature? I'm gonna go murder that cat while you watch helplessly!"
    Last edited by woweedd; 2019-08-23 at 03:15 AM.

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Vampires usually have trouble digesting or even enjoying non-blood food. We can't be sure that is the case in OotS, but it is not an unreasonable hypothesis. And the problem with immortality is that you can't retire, because you aren't getting any older, and thus at best you'd take sabbaticals.

    Grey Wolf
    Malack didn't eat the food at the banquet. I assume he would have eaten if he could, so for now I assume vampires can only eat blood.

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    I'm gonna put my quatloos on throwing axe kilt guy doing it.

    And now to actually read the thread.

    Edit: Oh the old "Belkar becomes a vampire" theory. That one's gotten less and less plausible with each passing update, especially now that the only two vampires we know about are currently miles away or doing their best to also be miles away.
    Last edited by RatElemental; 2019-08-23 at 03:38 AM.

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Vampires usually have trouble digesting or even enjoying non-blood food. We can't be sure that is the case in OotS, but it is not an unreasonable hypothesis. And the problem with immortality is that you can't retire, because you aren't getting any older, and thus at best you'd take sabbaticals.

    Grey Wolf
    Wether vampires can digest (and/or taste) regular food varies wildly from one universe to another. I’m not making any assumption about OOTS.

    No, being ageless gives you even more reason to retire (especially from a dangerous profession when you don’t have true immortality). When you tire of your current profession, you retire and go gardening or backpacking across Tartarus or whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quebbster View Post
    Malack didn't eat the food at the banquet. I assume he would have eaten if he could, so for now I assume vampires can only eat blood.
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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by RaveDave92084 View Post

    Roy: "How evil are you?"
    Belkar*: "Surprisingly, not as evil as Belkar. Frankly, Belkar terrifies me."
    Roy: ....

    Ok, that one got me laughing


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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    No, being ageless gives you even more reason to retire (especially from a dangerous profession when you don’t have true immortality). When you tire of your current profession, you retire and go gardening or backpacking across Tartarus or whatever.
    Which is what is called a sabbatical, if when you are done blowing through your savings you have to go back to working.

    Although fair enough, a vampire wouldn't need to fund an IRA any more than a soon-to-be-dead person, since neither can make use of it. To a vampire, an IRA is just a savings account with penalties for withdrawing the money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  25. - Top - End - #25
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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Belkar will not die.

    Overdeity Mr. Scruffy will deem the halfling the first being in all the world cycles worthy of ascending him into an higher form of being beyond the understanding of even the current gods, and that of course includes no longer needing to breath.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Belkar will not die.

    Overdeity Mr. Scruffy will deem the halfling the first being in all the world cycles worthy of ascending him into an higher form of being beyond the understanding of even the current gods, and that of course includes no longer needing to breath.
    And, apparently, losing the capabilty to enjoy cakes...
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by HorizonWalker View Post
    Now, obviously, the interpretation of "Belkar dies and goes to Hell" is a completely reasonable one.
    Thats not reasonable at all!

    He'd go to the Abyss, of course.
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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Which is what is called a sabbatical, if when you are done blowing through your savings you have to go back to working.
    Only if you do get another job (the same one even!). With enough capital and how little expansed they have undead could easily unlive by annuities alone.

    Although fair enough, a vampire wouldn't need to fund an IRA any more than a soon-to-be-dead person, since neither can make use of it. To a vampire, an IRA is just a savings account with penalties for withdrawing the money.

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    Xykon.
    /thread

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    Default Re: What's Going To Kill Belkar?

    The Sphinx Pox.

    C'mon, it's so dang obvious.
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