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Thread: Fun Learning 4e

  1. - Top - End - #91
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Fun Learning 4e

    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    No, because each defense is modified by the HIGHER or two stats
    AC: Dex/Int (or none when using heavy armor)
    Fortitude: Str/Con
    Reflex: Dex/Int (regardless of armor)
    Will: Wis/Cha
    Thanks!

    Spoiler: Cleric List of Options
    Show

    Class Feature Prayers
    Channel Divinity: Divine Fortune Cleric Feature
    Channel Divinity: Turn Undead Cleric Feature
    Healing Word Cleric Feature

    Level 1 At-Will Prayers
    Lance of Faith Cleric Attack 1
    Priestís Shield Cleric Attack 1
    Righteous Brand Cleric Attack 1
    Sacred Flame Cleric Attack 1

    Level 1 Encounter Prayers
    Cause Fear Cleric Attack 1
    Divine Glow Cleric Attack 1
    Healing Strike Cleric Attack 1
    Wrathful Thunder Cleric Attack 1

    Level 1 Daily Prayers
    Avenging Flame Cleric Attack 1
    Beacon of Hope
    Cleric Attack 1
    Cascade of Light Cleric Attack 1
    Guardian of Faith Cleric Attack 1


    Human: +2 to one Ability Score.
    One Bonus At-Will Power from Class:
    Edit = One Bonus Skill from Class. Arcana
    +1 to Fortitude, Reflex and Will defenses.
    Characteristic: Tolerant.

    Class Features: Channel Divinity, Healerís Lore, healing word, Ritual Casting.

    Cleric Skills: Religion; Insight, Persuasion, Heal

    Str 11 16 Con 10 Dex 11 08 Int 12 Wis 16 +2 Race = 18 Cha 12

    Hit Points
    Start = 22
    End of Heroic Tier = 72 (22 +45 +5 feat)
    End of Paragon Tier = 127 (72 +50 +5 feat)
    Epic Tier (30th) = 182 (127 +50 +5 feat)

    Healing Surges 7 +0 Con (5 HP each)
    11th = 9 + 0 Con (18 HP each)
    21st = 9 +1 Con (31 HP each)
    30th = 9 +2 Con (46 HP each)

    04 +1 Wis +1 Cha
    08 +1 Wis (20) +1 Cha (14)
    11 +1 all
    14 +1 Str +1 Cha
    18 +1 Str +1 (19) Cha (17)
    21 +1 all (Dex 10) (Wis 22)?
    24 +1 Con +1 Cha
    28 +1 Con +1 (14) Cha (20)

    NomGarret Feats: You mentioned 5 feats for Hero Tier.
    {H} Human Perseverance
    01 Armor of Bahamut
    02 Weapon Proficiency: Fullblade (Excession)
    Bastard Sword (tiornys)
    {IDK the two handed sword seems more like a (Str) Striker thing)

    04 Durable
    06 Alertness
    08 Action Surge
    10 Toughness (+5 HP/tier)

    Spoiler: Alternate Feats - WIP
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    04 Novice Power = (Attack)
    06 Alertness
    08 Acolyte Power = (Utility)
    10 Adept Power = (Attack)


    Spoiler: Armor Class
    Show

    01st level AC: 16 (Chainmail)
    10th level AC: 18
    20th level AC 20
    30th level AC 22


    Spoiler: Implement Attack
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    (Wis + Holy Symbol)
    01st Wis 4 + HS 0 = 04
    10th Wis 5 + HS 2 = 07
    21st Wis 6 + HS 4 = 10
    30th Wis 6 + HS 6 = 12


    Spoiler: Weapon Attack
    Show

    (half level)
    01st (00) + Str 3 + 0 = 04
    10th (05) + Str 5 + 2 = 12
    21st (10) + Str 5 + 4 = 19
    30th (15) + Str 5 + 6 = 26


    First Level
    Fortitude 10 + 0 (half Level) + 2 Con +1 Race = 13
    Reflex 10 + 0 (half Level) + 0 Dex +1 Race = 11
    Will 10 + 0 (half Level) +2 Class + 4 Wis +1 Race = 17

    Tenth Level
    Fortitude 10 + 5 (half Level) + 2 Con +1 Race +2 Amulet = 20
    Reflex 10 + 5 (half Level) + 0 Dex +1 Race +2 Amulet = 18
    Will 10 + 5 (half Level) +2 Class + 4 Wis +1 Race +2 Amulet = 24

    First Level Equipment:
    Chainmail +6 AC. 40# 40 gp. -1 check. -1 speed.

    Dagger +3 Prof 1d4 Pierce. Range:

    Mace +2 Prof. 5 gp. 6#. 1d8 Blunt.
    Versatile +1 Dmg when used two handed.

    Bastard Sword Prof 1d10 Slash

    Fullblade Prof 1d12 Slash

    Light Crossbow +2 Prof. 25 gp. 4#. 1d8 P.

    Holy symbol 10 gp. 1#.

    Standard Adventurer's Kit. 30#. 15 go.
    Backpack, Bedroll, Flint and Steel, Belt Pouch, 10 days Trail Rations, 50' Hemp Rope, 2 Sunrods, Waterskin.

    Ok. Currently carrying 81#.
    5 gold left.

    Spoiler: Heroic Powers
    Show


    First Level
    At Will: Priestís Shield; Sacred Flame; and Lance of Faith

    Encounter: Healing Strike

    Daily: Guardian of Faith Beacon of Hope

    Utility: Divine Fortune and Turn Undead

    Rituals: Gentle Repose and Identify

    2nd level
    Utility: [slCure Light Wounds[/s] Shield of Faith

    3rd Level
    Encounter: Daunting Light

    5th level
    Daily: Spiritual Weapon

    6th level
    Utility: Cure serious Wounds Bastion of Health

    7th level
    Encounter: Break the Spirit Searing Light

    9th level
    Daily: Divine Power Flame Strike

    10th level
    Utility: Mass Cure Light Wounds


    Spoiler: Heroic Equipment
    Show


    Second
    +1 Holy Symbol; +1 Viscous Mace (Critical = +1d12 damage per plus)

    Third
    +1 amulet of Protection; Gloves of Piercing;

    Fourth
    Wavestrider Boots;

    Fifth
    +1 Angelsteel (Chainmail) Armor; Everlasting Provisions;

    Sixth
    +2 Holy Symbol

    Seventh
    +2 Amulet of Protection; +2 Viscous Mace (Critical = +2d12 damage)

    Eighth
    Belt of Sacrifice;

    Ninth
    +2 Angelsteel (Chainmail) Armor;

    Tenth
    Handy Haversack;


    Got some help from my friend.
    @Excession: But, still need help figuring out what Paragon Powers replace which Heroic Powers.

    Paragon Saves
    Fortitude 10 + 10 (half Level) + 2 Con +1 Race = 23
    Reflex 10 + 10 (half Level) + 0 Dex +1 Race +2 feat = 23
    Will 10 + 10 (half Level) +2 Class + 4 Wis +1 Race = 27

    Feats
    11 Combat Anticipation
    12 Danger Sense
    14 Lightning Reflexes
    16 Mettle
    18 Uncanny Dodge
    20 Devastating Critical

    Spoiler: Paragon Powers
    Show

    Eleventh
    Solar Wrath (Attack)

    Twelveth
    Healing Sun (Utility)

    Thirteen
    Encounter: Inspiring Strike Healing Strike traded for Mantle of Glory

    Fifteen
    Daily: Seal of Warding

    Sixteen
    Utility: Divine Armor Hallowed Ground
    +2 AC and DR 5 to all allies for the encounter is nice, but +2 to saves, all defenses, and Attacks for the encounter is a little better, to my thinking.

    Seventeen
    Encounter: Thunderous Word
    Iíd consider Enthrall if the immobilized effect was applied for all allies, but it looks like the targets are only unable to attack the caster, if said is successful in beating their (Wis vs) Will Defense.

    Nineteen
    Daily: Holy Wrath

    Twentieth
    Radiant Brilliance (Attack)


    Spoiler: Paragon Equipment
    Show


    Eleventh
    +3 Holy Symbol; Sending Stones (pair)

    Twelve
    +3 Amulet of Protection;

    Thirteen
    +3 Periapt of Wisdom; +3 Viscous Mace (Critical = +3d12 damage)

    Fourteen


    Fifteen
    +3 Angelsteel (Chainmail) Armor

    Sixteen
    +4 Amulet of Protection;

    Seventeen
    +4 Holy Symbol; +4 Viscous Mace (Critical = +4d12 damage)

    Eighteen
    Ring of Protection

    Nineteen
    Helm of Command;

    Twenty
    +4 Angelsteel (Chainmail) Armor


    Epic Saves
    Fortitude 15 + 10 (half Level) + 2 Con +1 Race +6 Amulet = 34
    Reflex 10 + 15 (half Level) + 0 Int +1 Race +2 Feat +6 Amulet = 34
    Will 10 + 15 (half Level) +2 Class + 4 Wis +1 Race +6 Amulet = 38

    Feats
    21 Epic Resurgence
    22 Blind-Fight
    24 Triumphant Attack
    26 Weapon Focus (?) +3 to damage
    28 Defensive Mobility +2 AC vs AoO
    30 Font of Radiance

    Even further down the list, what Paragon powers are traded for Epic powers
    Spoiler: Epic Powers
    Show


    Twenty-two
    Utility: Purify

    Twenty-three
    Encounter: Astral Blades of Death

    24th level +1 to two Abilities
    Str 17 Con 20 Dex 12 Int 14 Wis 20 Cha 13

    Twenty-five
    Daily: Seal of Protection

    Twenty-seven
    Encounter: Sunburst

    28th level +1 to two Abilities
    Str 18 Con 20 Dex 12 Int 14 Wis 20 Cha 14

    Twenty-nine
    Daily: Astral Storm


    Spoiler: Epic Equipment
    Show

    Twenty-one
    +5 Holy Symbol;

    Twenty-two
    +5 Amulet of Protection; +5 Viscous Mace (Critical = +5d12 damage)

    Twenty-three

    Twenty-four
    Ring of Regeneration; +5 Angelsteel (Chainmail) Armor

    Twenty-five
    +6 Amulet of Protection;

    Twenty-six
    +6 Holy Symbol;

    Twenty-seven
    +6 Viscous Mace (Critical = +6d12 damage)

    Twenty-eight

    Twenty-nine
    +6 Angelsteel (Chainmail) Armor

    Thirty
    +6 Scarab of Invulnerability


    Ok. Suggestions for Feats, Powers and Equipment from other books welcomed.

    Still working on Equipment

    Looking forward to responses.
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-08-24 at 10:51 AM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  2. - Top - End - #92
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Excession's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fun Learning 4e

    You don't have enough Con to qualify for the scale or plate proficiency feats, they need 13 and 15 respectively. You could take proficiency with light and then heavy shields instead, as those feats only require 13 and 15 strength. Getting just +1 AC for one feat isn't great value though. If you're not using a shield, consider using a two-handed weapon rather than a bastard sword. The fullblade (+3, 1d12, high crit) from Adventurer's Vault is the best of them.

    Personally I also don't much like critical boosting feats on cleric. Clerics don't get much in the way of multi-attack powers, which leads to not getting that many critical hits either. Look instead for feats that reliably boost accuracy or damage, improve your class features, or give you new options. Multiclass are some of the more interesting ones. Note that you can only multi-class into one other class, but you could take multiple multi-class feats with the same class.

    Here's the character sheet from a Wizard I played a while back, if you want to see what a fully built paragon character look like. This game was relatively low on magic items, so we were using the inherent bonus system from DMG2.
    Last edited by Excession; 2019-08-23 at 07:51 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #93
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Fun Learning 4e

    I should note, if you're looking at other sources- Dragon #400 has a feature called "Battle Cleric's Lore" that can replace "Healer's Lore." One of the parts of that feature is that you get Scale proficiency and a +2 Shield bonus to AC- it basically solves all Cleric AC issues, full stop.

  4. - Top - End - #94
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Fun Learning 4e

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    I should note, if you're looking at other sources- Dragon #400 has a feature called "Battle Cleric's Lore" that can replace "Healer's Lore." One of the parts of that feature is that you get Scale proficiency and a +2 Shield bonus to AC- it basically solves all Cleric AC issues, full stop.
    Which would be great for the Battle Cleric build.
    Thanks!!

    Edit: Got the Box of Books!
    For the Cleric, I'm staying with the PHB 1.

    I think I got everything?
    (Except the Muticlassing Feats, which I'll work on when I have time.)
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-08-27 at 03:35 PM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  5. - Top - End - #95
    Orc in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Fun Learning 4e

    Given PHB only, your paragon and epic power choices look good to me. The only one I'd seriously quibble with is L25, where I think both Seal of Binding and Sacred Word are much better than Seal of Protection. Part of that might be my valuing the Stunned condition higher than you do--but Stunned is really, really good.

    For which encounter/daily attack powers you trade, you always drop the lowest level slot in the category and gain a slot at your current level. I like to think about it is as follows:
    (L11: your paragon path gives you an encounter power. This power is outside the trading of powers from your class)
    L13: you have 3 encounter powers from your class (plus one from your paragon path), and those powers are E13, E7, and E3*.
    L15: you have 3 daily powers from your class at levels D15, D9, and D5.
    L17: your 3 encounter powers are now E17, E13, and E7.
    L19: your 3 daily powers are now D19, D15, and D9.
    (L20: your paragon path gives you a daily power. This power is also outside the trading of powers)
    L23: your 3 encounter powers are now E23, E17, and E13.
    L25: your 3 daily powers are now D25, D19, and D15.
    L27: your 3 encounter powers are now E27, E23, and E17.
    L29: your 3 daily powers are now D29, D25, and D19.
    *: note that you can always stick a lower level power into a slot. If you want to have a D29, D15, and D1 at level 29, you can.

    And for completeness, I'll mention that you keep all Utility powers, so eventually you have U2, U6, (U12--paragon path), U16, U22, (U26--epic destiny)

  6. - Top - End - #96
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Fun Learning 4e

    Quote Originally Posted by tiornys
    Given PHB only, your paragon and epic power choices look good to me. The only one I'd seriously quibble with is L25, where I think both Seal of Binding and Sacred Word are much better than Seal of Protection. Part of that might be my valuing the Stunned condition higher than you do--but Stunned is really, really good.
    I was not impressed by Seal of Binding, since it only affects a single target and seems to not allow any other of the Cleric's Allies attack the affected creature (am I reading that wrong?)

    Sacred Word's psychic damage and stun is ok, but only affects one target.

    Seal of Protection does Radiant damage to target, and grants +2 AC to all Allies, and stops the movement of Foes that enter the Zone.

    Seal seemed to be the most "Help Party" option for this Cleric.

    I'll also go over the Power List you provided, maybe Friday and more on Sunday.

    Thanks again for your help !
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Yakk's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fun Learning 4e

    Seal of Binding in a Solo + Other fight lets you shut down the solo, especially with regeneration effects.

    The party then cleans up everything else.

    The downside is creatures that shrug off stun (which later solos do).

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Fun Learning 4e

    More generally, Seal of Binding splits a hard fight into a manageable fight plus an easy fight. Ideally you target an elite, leader, and/or controller type with it on round 1 and keep them stunned until several/all of the other enemies are dead.

    I remember Sacred Word hitting all enemies in a burst 2, but I'm away from book and can't cross check right now. If it's single target then I definitely prefer Seal of Binding.
    Last edited by tiornys; 2019-08-29 at 03:32 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #99
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Fun Learning 4e

    Well, Binding is one target

    Word is Burst 5.

    Protection is Burst 2.

    So, (only) for this PC concept, I'll stick with Seal of Protection - but Word is better for a (Battle) Cleric.

    I need to read what Stunned does in 4e.
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-08-30 at 11:49 AM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Dimers's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fun Learning 4e

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    I need to read what Stunned does in 4e.
    If your PHB has arrived, you'll find the status effects on page 277. Stunned prevents all actions, even free actions. It also keeps the target from flanking, imposes CA (combat advantage, not Complete Arcane ), and with a later rule update it causes non-hovering flying creatures to fall.
    Avatar by Meltheim: Eveve, dwarven battlemind, 4e Dark Sun

  11. - Top - End - #101
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Fun Learning 4e

    I'm still here, just rather busy.
    Thanks for responding, and I hope to keep it it up.

    I'm slowly working through the books.
    Comparing all three PHBs plus Martials 1 & 2 is challenging.

    I'll eventually get around to Arcane and Psionic books.

    I'm doing what I can to show how I'm making progress learning.

    Spoiler: Second Character
    Show

    Halfling
    +2 Dex and +2 Cha
    Bold +5 to save versus Fear
    Nimble Reaction: +2 AC versus Attacks of Opportunity.
    Second Chance: (Encounter) Interrupt

    Str 12 Dex 16+2 = 18 Con 10 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 16 +2 = 18

    Rogue
    Armor: Cloth, Leather.
    Weapons: Dagger, Hand Crossbow, Sling, Shortsword
    +2 to Reflex Defense.
    HP 12 + 10 = 22
    Surges 6 (5 hp each)
    Deity: Avandra (Luck)

    Build: Trickster
    1st strike, Rogue Tactics, Rogue Weapon Talent, Sneak Attack.

    Skills: Stealth, Thievery; Dungeoneering, Perception, Insight and Bluff.

    Spoiler: Heroic Tier
    Show

    Feats
    01 Backstabber (d8 SA)
    02 Halfling Agility
    04 Alertness
    06 Improved Initiative
    08 Lost in the Crowd
    10 Defensive Mobility

    4th +1 Dex +Cha
    8th +1 Dex +Cha

    Powers
    First
    At Will: Deft Strike; Sly Flourish
    Encounter: Positioning Strike
    Daily: Trick Strike

    Second (Utility) Master of Deceit
    Third (Encounter) Setup Strike
    Fifth (Daily) Clever Riposte
    Sixth (Utility) Chameleon
    Seventh (Encounter) Rogue Luck
    {Sand in the Eyes?}
    Ninth (Daily) Knockout
    Tenth (Utility) Shadow Strike

    Equipment
    01 Starting
    02 +1 Rapier
    03 Delver's Leather +1
    04 Bracers of Shot (+2 damage)
    05 Acrobat Boots
    06
    07 Amulet of Protection +1
    08 Delver's Leather +2
    09 +2 Dragonslayer
    10 Ironskin Belt

    Hit Points tenth level 67

    Fortitude 10 +5 (half level) + 0 Con +1 Amulet = 16

    Reflex 10 + 5 + 5 Dex +2 Class +1 Amulet = 23

    Will 10 + 5 + 5 +1 Wis +1 Amulet = 22


    I think I got everything.
    I'll need to check the other Books for possible Item replacement.


    I'll work on Paragon Tier next
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-09-12 at 12:57 AM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

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