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Thread: Fun Learning 4e
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2019-08-23, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
- Location
- Portland, Oregon
- Gender
Re: Fun Learning 4e
Thanks!
Spoiler: Cleric List of Options
Class Feature Prayers
Channel Divinity: Divine Fortune Cleric Feature
Channel Divinity: Turn Undead Cleric Feature
Healing Word Cleric Feature
Level 1 At-Will Prayers
Lance of Faith Cleric Attack 1
Priest’s Shield Cleric Attack 1
Righteous Brand Cleric Attack 1
Sacred Flame Cleric Attack 1
Level 1 Encounter Prayers
Cause Fear Cleric Attack 1
Divine Glow Cleric Attack 1
Healing Strike Cleric Attack 1
Wrathful Thunder Cleric Attack 1
Level 1 Daily Prayers
Avenging Flame Cleric Attack 1
Beacon of Hope Cleric Attack 1
Cascade of Light Cleric Attack 1
Guardian of Faith Cleric Attack 1
Human: +2 to one Ability Score.
One Bonus At-Will Power from Class:
Edit = One Bonus Skill from Class. Arcana
+1 to Fortitude, Reflex and Will defenses.
Characteristic: Tolerant.
Class Features: Channel Divinity, Healer’s Lore, healing word, Ritual Casting.
Cleric Skills: Religion; Insight, Persuasion, Heal
Str1116 Con 10 Dex1108 Int 12 Wis 16 +2 Race = 18 Cha 12
Hit PointsStart = 22
End of Heroic Tier = 72 (22 +45 +5 feat)
End of Paragon Tier = 127 (72 +50 +5 feat)
Epic Tier (30th) = 182 (127 +50 +5 feat)
Healing Surges 7 +0 Con (5 HP each)
11th = 9 + 0 Con (18 HP each)
21st = 9 +1 Con (31 HP each)
30th = 9 +2 Con (46 HP each)
04 +1 Wis +1 Cha
08 +1 Wis (20) +1 Cha (14)
11 +1 all
14 +1 Str +1 Cha
18 +1 Str +1 (19) Cha (17)
21 +1 all (Dex 10) (Wis 22)?
24 +1 Con +1 Cha
28 +1 Con +1 (14) Cha (20)
NomGarret Feats: You mentioned 5 feats for Hero Tier.
{H} Human Perseverance
01 Armor of Bahamut
02 Weapon Proficiency: Fullblade (Excession)
Bastard Sword (tiornys)
{IDK the two handed sword seems more like a (Str) Striker thing)
04 Durable
06 Alertness
08 Action Surge
10 Toughness (+5 HP/tier)
Spoiler: Alternate Feats - WIP
04 Novice Power = (Attack)
06 Alertness
08 Acolyte Power = (Utility)
10 Adept Power = (Attack)
Spoiler: Armor Class
01st level AC: 16 (Chainmail)
10th level AC: 18
20th level AC 20
30th level AC 22
Spoiler: Implement Attack
(Wis + Holy Symbol)
01st Wis 4 + HS 0 = 04
10th Wis 5 + HS 2 = 07
21st Wis 6 + HS 4 = 10
30th Wis 6 + HS 6 = 12
Spoiler: Weapon Attack
(half level)
01st (00) + Str 3 + 0 = 04
10th (05) + Str 5 + 2 = 12
21st (10) + Str 5 + 4 = 19
30th (15) + Str 5 + 6 = 26
First Level
Fortitude 10 + 0 (half Level) + 2 Con +1 Race = 13
Reflex 10 + 0 (half Level) + 0 Dex +1 Race = 11
Will 10 + 0 (half Level) +2 Class + 4 Wis +1 Race = 17
Tenth Level
Fortitude 10 + 5 (half Level) + 2 Con +1 Race +2 Amulet = 20
Reflex 10 + 5 (half Level) + 0 Dex +1 Race +2 Amulet = 18
Will 10 + 5 (half Level) +2 Class + 4 Wis +1 Race +2 Amulet = 24
First Level Equipment:
Chainmail +6 AC. 40# 40 gp. -1 check. -1 speed.
Dagger +3 Prof 1d4 Pierce. Range:
Mace +2 Prof. 5 gp. 6#. 1d8 Blunt.
Versatile +1 Dmg when used two handed.
Bastard Sword Prof 1d10 Slash
Fullblade Prof 1d12 Slash
Light Crossbow +2 Prof. 25 gp. 4#. 1d8 P.
Holy symbol 10 gp. 1#.
Standard Adventurer's Kit. 30#. 15 go.
Backpack, Bedroll, Flint and Steel, Belt Pouch, 10 days Trail Rations, 50' Hemp Rope, 2 Sunrods, Waterskin.
Ok. Currently carrying 81#.
5 gold left.
Spoiler: Heroic Powers
First LevelAt Will: Priest’s Shield; Sacred Flame; and Lance of Faith
Encounter: Healing Strike
Daily:Guardian of FaithBeacon of Hope
Utility: Divine Fortune and Turn Undead
Rituals: Gentle Repose and Identify
2nd levelUtility: [slCure Light Wounds[/s] Shield of Faith
3rd LevelEncounter: Daunting Light
5th levelDaily: Spiritual Weapon
6th levelUtility:Cure serious WoundsBastion of Health
7th levelEncounter:Break the SpiritSearing Light
9th levelDaily:Divine PowerFlame Strike
10th levelUtility: Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spoiler: Heroic Equipment
Second+1 Holy Symbol; +1 Viscous Mace (Critical = +1d12 damage per plus)
Third+1 amulet of Protection; Gloves of Piercing;
FourthWavestrider Boots;
Fifth+1 Angelsteel (Chainmail) Armor; Everlasting Provisions;
Sixth+2 Holy Symbol
Seventh+2 Amulet of Protection; +2 Viscous Mace (Critical = +2d12 damage)
EighthBelt of Sacrifice;
Ninth+2 Angelsteel (Chainmail) Armor;
TenthHandy Haversack;
Got some help from my friend.
@Excession: But, still need help figuring out what Paragon Powers replace which Heroic Powers.
Paragon SavesFortitude 10 + 10 (half Level) + 2 Con +1 Race = 23
Reflex 10 + 10 (half Level) + 0 Dex +1 Race +2 feat = 23
Will 10 + 10 (half Level) +2 Class + 4 Wis +1 Race = 27
Feats
11 Combat Anticipation
12 Danger Sense
14 Lightning Reflexes
16 Mettle
18 Uncanny Dodge
20 Devastating Critical
Spoiler: Paragon Powers
EleventhSolar Wrath (Attack)
TwelvethHealing Sun (Utility)
ThirteenEncounter:Inspiring StrikeHealing Strike traded for Mantle of Glory
FifteenDaily: Seal of Warding
SixteenUtility:Divine ArmorHallowed Ground
+2 AC and DR 5 to all allies for the encounter is nice, but +2 to saves, all defenses, and Attacks for the encounter is a little better, to my thinking.
SeventeenEncounter: Thunderous Word
I’d consider Enthrall if the immobilized effect was applied for all allies, but it looks like the targets are only unable to attack the caster, if said is successful in beating their (Wis vs) Will Defense.
NineteenDaily: Holy Wrath
TwentiethRadiant Brilliance (Attack)
Spoiler: Paragon Equipment
Eleventh+3 Holy Symbol; Sending Stones (pair)
Twelve+3 Amulet of Protection;
Thirteen+3 Periapt of Wisdom; +3 Viscous Mace (Critical = +3d12 damage)
Fourteen+3 Angelsteel (Chainmail) Armor
Fifteen
Sixteen+4 Amulet of Protection;
Seventeen+4 Holy Symbol; +4 Viscous Mace (Critical = +4d12 damage)
EighteenRing of Protection
NineteenHelm of Command;
Twenty+4 Angelsteel (Chainmail) Armor
Epic SavesFortitude 15 + 10 (half Level) + 2 Con +1 Race +6 Amulet = 34
Reflex 10 + 15 (half Level) + 0 Int +1 Race +2 Feat +6 Amulet = 34
Will 10 + 15 (half Level) +2 Class + 4 Wis +1 Race +6 Amulet = 38
Feats
21 Epic Resurgence
22 Blind-Fight
24 Triumphant Attack
26 Weapon Focus (?) +3 to damage
28 Defensive Mobility +2 AC vs AoO
30 Font of Radiance
Even further down the list, what Paragon powers are traded for Epic powers
Spoiler: Epic Powers
Twenty-twoUtility: Purify
Twenty-threeEncounter: Astral Blades of Death
24th level +1 to two Abilities
Str 17 Con 20 Dex 12 Int 14 Wis 20 Cha 13
Twenty-fiveDaily: Seal of Protection
Twenty-sevenEncounter: Sunburst
28th level +1 to two Abilities
Str 18 Con 20 Dex 12 Int 14 Wis 20 Cha 14
Twenty-nineDaily: Astral Storm
Spoiler: Epic Equipment
Twenty-one+5 Holy Symbol;
Twenty-two+5 Amulet of Protection; +5 Viscous Mace (Critical = +5d12 damage)
Twenty-threeRing of Regeneration; +5 Angelsteel (Chainmail) Armor
Twenty-four
Twenty-five+6 Amulet of Protection;
Twenty-six+6 Holy Symbol;
Twenty-seven+6 Viscous Mace (Critical = +6d12 damage)
Twenty-eight+6 Angelsteel (Chainmail) Armor
Twenty-nine
Thirty+6 Scarab of Invulnerability
Ok. Suggestions for Feats, Powers and Equipment from other books welcomed.
Still working on Equipment
Looking forward to responses.Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-08-24 at 10:51 AM.
My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
No offense is intended by anything I post.*Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
*I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!
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2019-08-23, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
- Location
- New Zealand
- Gender
Re: Fun Learning 4e
You don't have enough Con to qualify for the scale or plate proficiency feats, they need 13 and 15 respectively. You could take proficiency with light and then heavy shields instead, as those feats only require 13 and 15 strength. Getting just +1 AC for one feat isn't great value though. If you're not using a shield, consider using a two-handed weapon rather than a bastard sword. The fullblade (+3, 1d12, high crit) from Adventurer's Vault is the best of them.
Personally I also don't much like critical boosting feats on cleric. Clerics don't get much in the way of multi-attack powers, which leads to not getting that many critical hits either. Look instead for feats that reliably boost accuracy or damage, improve your class features, or give you new options. Multiclass are some of the more interesting ones. Note that you can only multi-class into one other class, but you could take multiple multi-class feats with the same class.
Here's the character sheet from a Wizard I played a while back, if you want to see what a fully built paragon character look like. This game was relatively low on magic items, so we were using the inherent bonus system from DMG2.Last edited by Excession; 2019-08-23 at 07:51 PM.
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2019-08-25, 01:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
Re: Fun Learning 4e
I should note, if you're looking at other sources- Dragon #400 has a feature called "Battle Cleric's Lore" that can replace "Healer's Lore." One of the parts of that feature is that you get Scale proficiency and a +2 Shield bonus to AC- it basically solves all Cleric AC issues, full stop.
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2019-08-25, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
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- Portland, Oregon
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Re: Fun Learning 4e
Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-08-27 at 03:35 PM.
My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
No offense is intended by anything I post.*Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
*I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!
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2019-08-28, 12:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2015
Re: Fun Learning 4e
Given PHB only, your paragon and epic power choices look good to me. The only one I'd seriously quibble with is L25, where I think both Seal of Binding and Sacred Word are much better than Seal of Protection. Part of that might be my valuing the Stunned condition higher than you do--but Stunned is really, really good.
For which encounter/daily attack powers you trade, you always drop the lowest level slot in the category and gain a slot at your current level. I like to think about it is as follows:
(L11: your paragon path gives you an encounter power. This power is outside the trading of powers from your class)
L13: you have 3 encounter powers from your class (plus one from your paragon path), and those powers are E13, E7, and E3*.
L15: you have 3 daily powers from your class at levels D15, D9, and D5.
L17: your 3 encounter powers are now E17, E13, and E7.
L19: your 3 daily powers are now D19, D15, and D9.
(L20: your paragon path gives you a daily power. This power is also outside the trading of powers)
L23: your 3 encounter powers are now E23, E17, and E13.
L25: your 3 daily powers are now D25, D19, and D15.
L27: your 3 encounter powers are now E27, E23, and E17.
L29: your 3 daily powers are now D29, D25, and D19.
*: note that you can always stick a lower level power into a slot. If you want to have a D29, D15, and D1 at level 29, you can.
And for completeness, I'll mention that you keep all Utility powers, so eventually you have U2, U6, (U12--paragon path), U16, U22, (U26--epic destiny)
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2019-08-29, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
- Location
- Portland, Oregon
- Gender
Re: Fun Learning 4e
Originally Posted by tiornys
Sacred Word's psychic damage and stun is ok, but only affects one target.
Seal of Protection does Radiant damage to target, and grants +2 AC to all Allies, and stops the movement of Foes that enter the Zone.
Seal seemed to be the most "Help Party" option for this Cleric.
I'll also go over the Power List you provided, maybe Friday and more on Sunday.
Thanks again for your help !My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
No offense is intended by anything I post.*Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
*I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!
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2019-08-29, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: Fun Learning 4e
Seal of Binding in a Solo + Other fight lets you shut down the solo, especially with regeneration effects.
The party then cleans up everything else.
The downside is creatures that shrug off stun (which later solos do).
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2019-08-29, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2015
Re: Fun Learning 4e
More generally, Seal of Binding splits a hard fight into a manageable fight plus an easy fight. Ideally you target an elite, leader, and/or controller type with it on round 1 and keep them stunned until several/all of the other enemies are dead.
I remember Sacred Word hitting all enemies in a burst 2, but I'm away from book and can't cross check right now. If it's single target then I definitely prefer Seal of Binding.Last edited by tiornys; 2019-08-29 at 03:32 PM.
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2019-08-30, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
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- Portland, Oregon
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Re: Fun Learning 4e
Well, Binding is one target
Word is Burst 5.
Protection is Burst 2.
So, (only) for this PC concept, I'll stick with Seal of Protection - but Word is better for a (Battle) Cleric.
I need to read what Stunned does in 4e.Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-08-30 at 11:49 AM.
My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
No offense is intended by anything I post.*Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
*I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!
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2019-09-01, 12:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Boston, MA
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Re: Fun Learning 4e
If your PHB has arrived, you'll find the status effects on page 277. Stunned prevents all actions, even free actions. It also keeps the target from flanking, imposes CA (combat advantage, not Complete Arcane ), and with a later rule update it causes non-hovering flying creatures to fall.
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2019-09-07, 12:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
- Location
- Portland, Oregon
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Re: Fun Learning 4e
I'm still here, just rather busy.
Thanks for responding, and I hope to keep it it up.
I'm slowly working through the books.
Comparing all three PHBs plus Martials 1 & 2 is challenging.
I'll eventually get around to Arcane and Psionic books.
I'm doing what I can to show how I'm making progress learning.
Spoiler: Second Character
Halfling
+2 Dex and +2 Cha
Bold +5 to save versus Fear
Nimble Reaction: +2 AC versus Attacks of Opportunity.
Second Chance: (Encounter) Interrupt
Str 12 Dex 16+2 = 18 Con 10 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 16 +2 = 18
Rogue
Armor: Cloth, Leather.
Weapons: Dagger, Hand Crossbow, Sling, Shortsword
+2 to Reflex Defense.
HP 12 + 10 = 22
Surges 6 (5 hp each)
Deity: Avandra (Luck)
Build: Trickster
1st strike, Rogue Tactics, Rogue Weapon Talent, Sneak Attack.
Skills: Stealth, Thievery; Dungeoneering, Perception, Insight and Bluff.
Spoiler: Heroic Tier
Feats01 Backstabber (d8 SA)
02 Halfling Agility
04 Alertness
06 Improved Initiative
08 Lost in the Crowd
10 Defensive Mobility
4th +1 Dex +Cha
8th +1 Dex +Cha
PowersFirst
At Will: Deft Strike; Sly Flourish
Encounter: Positioning Strike
Daily: Trick Strike
Second (Utility) Master of Deceit
Third (Encounter) Setup Strike
Fifth (Daily) Clever Riposte
Sixth (Utility) Chameleon
Seventh (Encounter) Rogue Luck
{Sand in the Eyes?}
Ninth (Daily) Knockout
Tenth (Utility) Shadow Strike
Equipment
01 Starting
02 +1 Rapier
03 Delver's Leather +1
04 Bracers of Shot (+2 damage)
05 Acrobat Boots
06
07 Amulet of Protection +1
08 Delver's Leather +2
09 +2 Dragonslayer
10 Ironskin Belt
Hit Points tenth level 67
Fortitude 10 +5 (half level) + 0 Con +1 Amulet = 16
Reflex 10 + 5 + 5 Dex +2 Class +1 Amulet = 23
Will 10 + 5 + 5 +1 Wis +1 Amulet = 22
I think I got everything.
I'll need to check the other Books for possible Item replacement.
I'll work on Paragon Tier nextLast edited by Great Dragon; 2019-09-12 at 12:57 AM.
My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
No offense is intended by anything I post.*Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
*I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!