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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    Okay what of the following are you claiming that is not true?
    [1] Upper SECs have money, money skills, and money behaviors.
    [2] The upper SECs holding onto money over generations is not only due to money, but also due to learned money skills, and money behaviors.
    [3] Higher SECs are a good place to look for learning about money skills, and money behaviors.
    [4] Teachers come from higher SECs (as in the population as a whole).
    All of them. Plus the connections you draw between them. Plus your conclusions.

    A person born or married to wealth who goes into teaching has not demonstrated "learned money skills, and money behaviors". It also does not follow they can teach them. It also does not follow they are "a good place to look for learning about money skills, and money behaviors" because "be born to the right rich family" is not a useful advice ("Marry money" is, I suppose, but you hardly need a teacher for that). Plus the already harped on about your misunderstanding of statistics. Plus the fact none of those facts in any way support "if you go into teaching, it'll make you a millionaire by the time you retire" conclusion.

    ETA: Wait, "SEC" stands for "Socio-Economic classification"? Sure, they do have money - by the very definition of socioeconomic classification - but yeah, I reject that it follows they must also have money skills or money behaviours, whatever the hell that latter one means. Some do, some don't, and as far as I am aware, the parsimonious hypothesis is that they posses any skill in equal proportion to the rest of society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    All of them. Plus the connections you draw between them. Plus whatever your definition of "SEC" is. Plus your conclusions.
    How do you figure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    A person born or married to wealth who goes into teaching has not demonstrated "learned money skills, and money behaviors".
    Learned money skills and behaviors make a difference in ones wealth! It is not that one chooses cultural capitol, it is what one is born into. Their parents are not all like "I am not going to talk about money stuff, because you will be a teacher one day." They just talk about money stuff, because that is what one does. Cultural capitol about money is nothing to do with what occupation or profession a kid ends up going into.

    Learned money skills and behaviors make a difference in ones wealth. Almost just knowing about compound interest is enough to make you a millionaire.

    Ignoring the pension a teacher saving $175 a month in the S&P 500 over 40-years at 10% would do it. Most teachers could afford this. This would be less than 10% of the starting salary for teachers.

    Anyone could do this that has $175 per month to invest. Anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    It also does not follow they can teach them. It also does not follow they are "a good place to look for learning about money skills, and money behaviors" because "be born to the right rich family" is not a useful advice. Plus the already harped on about your misunderstanding of statistics. Plus the fact none of those facts in any way support "if you go into teaching, it'll make you a millionaire by the time you retire" conclusion.
    SEC is socio economic class. Billionaires are a SEC, for example. The homeless are a SEC, for example. SEC can mean a lot of things, but commonly is what quintile you fall into income/wealth wise (separate but related scales). Basically they rank everyone from high to low income/wealth and split them into five groups called quintiles.

    The advice is (a) to ask over (b) not to ask. Always ask. Asking might get you something. Not asking ALWAYS gets you nothing. Ask groups that tend to be from the higher SEC is a good idea. Asking anyone is good idea. Asking the higher quintiles is where the likelihood of getting good advice is located (quantity, and probability).
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-08-19 at 10:49 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #273
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    confused Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    To say that the child of someone born into the lower-quintiles are as likely to have cultural capitol surrounding wealth is just not the way wealth works.
    Who ever said that? Ive said that your ideas of "cultural capital surrounding wealth" is optimistically misguided, to put it lightly.
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  4. - Top - End - #274
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Who ever said that? Ive said that your ideas of "cultural capital surrounding wealth" is optimistically misguided, to put it lightly.
    This very well may be, but it is a thing none the less. The risk/reward is none/high (as in could be high). I definitely learned a from teachers and/or those with cultural capitol surrounding wealth/income. Like I said I think that one lesson from a teacher on compound interest effected my life. [b]One[/] conversation with my wife's grandfather, I think, was quite profitable.
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-08-19 at 11:05 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    This very well may be, but it is a thing none the less. The risk/reward is none/high.
    I'm still not seeing how "be born to money" is remotely useful advice to anybody. If you have any desire to be remotely efficient with your time, your chosen method is actively detrimental to that. Yeah, technically given infinite time and infinite teachers, you might eventually find one with useful, applicable advice for you, but that's not really something you can count on happening within real world constraints.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  6. - Top - End - #276
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I'm still not seeing how "be born to money" is remotely useful advice to anybody. If you have any desire to be remotely efficient with your time, your chosen method is actively detrimental to that. Yeah, technically given infinite time and infinite teachers, you might eventually find one with useful, applicable advice for you, but that's not really something you can count on happening within real world constraints.
    You are not just born to a family with money. You are born to a way of thinking about money, and investing. You see how investing is a thing that your parents do, and talk about. You hear about how this or that was possible by selling investments at a profit. Little mentions like "that was a good investment you made dear, now we can afford this vacation / car / home". Just your parents talking about how investing is a good thing is a good thing . . . simple rules about investing is even better!

    Just being raised not hearing how investing is gambling, or how investing is a zero sum game to be avoid at all costs is a good thing. I know I was told investing was bad. I still am being told this is a thing . . . even after telling my family how specifically this is not a thing and giving examples. They just think that I am some special snowflake that survived the summer. I do better than average (luck and/or skill), but average is really good! I would be pleased to be average!

    Compound interest is an idea that will change your life. Embracing it, and not being told to avoid it is that way to go . . . hands down.
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-08-19 at 11:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    You are not just born to a family with money. You are born to a way of thinking about money, and investing. You see how investing is a thing that your parents do, and talk about. You hear about how this or that was possible by selling investments at a profit. Little mentions like "that was a good investment you made dear, now we can afford this vacation / car / home". Just your parents talking about how investing is a good thing is a good thing . . . simple rules about investing is even better!

    Just being raised not hearing how investing is gambling, or how investing is a zero sum game to be avoid at all costs is a good thing. I know I was told investing was bad. I still am told this is a thing . . . even after telling my family how specifically this is not a thing and giving examples. They just think that I am some special snowflake thae survived the summer.

    Compound interest is an idea that will change your life. Embracing it, and not being told to avoid it is that way to go . . . hands down.
    History would suggest that second or third generation wealthy are in fact rather poor people to ask for advice on how to get rich. They never started from a lower or middle class background, and everything they learned and applied would be from the basis of starting already wealthy.

    As has been mentioned, its really, really easy to take wealth and turn it into more wealth, but that doesn't do you any good without that starting capital to work with, and if you have that you don't need the advice anyway.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  8. - Top - End - #278
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    .
    I swear to C3P-O that I could write down 10 investing commandments (nothing that is innovative) and hand them to ANYONE and if followed they will do a stellar job saving and investing. Compound interest is just that good, and people COMMOMONLY do stupid things when investing. The basics of investing: (a) that would make anyone successful, (b) could definitely be understood by a teenager, and (c) if that teenager lived with me, then it would 100% be cultural capitol. This stuff is not rocket science. Time + money + leaving it alone = piles of money.
    Then what exactly is it that these teachers are supposed to be bringing to the table, for said people looking for good advice?

    Basic investment rules are simple, and could be told and demonstrated to a child. This is what cultural capitol is. To deny that basic investment rules are a thing, that people commonly make stupid investment decisions that go against these simple rules, and that being told not to do these stupid things is a wildly profitable idea.

    Are we arguing against these, to me obvious, ideas?
    Every time you reframe the argument, asking if people are arguing against straightforward truisms, you are mistaken that people are arguing against them. The only person you do a disservice to is yourself, in that you have shut yourself off from the one thing that could be accomplished in this thread: changing anyone's mind. By (falsely or mistakenly) framing your debate opposition as straw fools, in a way obvious to everyone else, you make yourself less convincing, since apparently the only way you will engage people's points is by mis-re-stating what they are arguing.

    If you have the opportunity to learn cultural capitol surrounding wealth, then I am of the opinion that you 100% should. Anyone saying otherwise is simply beyond my understanding on how to operate.
    Like this. Pretending that people are arguing against this only makes you look ridiculous.

    A great place to look for cultural capitol surrounding wealth is a teacher. Not the best place, not the only place, but a great place due to accessibility, and probability.
    I do not think that I am explaining myself clearly. The upper quintiles (to rank, and then divide into five groups) AS A WHOLE are a good place to look for cultural capitol on investing. The upper quintiles are not a bad place to look for advice on cultural capitol on investing. Teachers tend to come from the upper two quintiles, ergo are not a bad place, but a good place to look for advice on cultural capitol on investing.
    This is the other thing you do that we all see, that absolutely cripples your ability to convince others. You keep mixing 'not a bad,' 'good,' and 'great,' as convenient to you (actually, inconvenient, as it has hamstrung your case). I think others would agree that you have done nothing to support the notion that teachers are a great place to go to for cultural capital surrounding wealth, OR for financial advice. Likewise, as I've repeatedly pointed out, no one is saying that teachers are a bad place to go. So that leaves 'good.' I guess we could just have a difference of opinion as to what constitutes good -- is anything over the absolute population average 'good' in your mind? Because, simply by merit of being able to hold down a job and to being able to get through college, teachers come ahead of a population average which includes people that can't meet those standards. However, not many people would consider that sufficient criteria for a standard of 'good.'
    Last edited by Willie the Duck; 2019-08-19 at 11:44 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #279
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    History would suggest that second or third generation wealthy are in fact rather poor people to ask for advice on how to get rich. They never started from a lower or middle class background, and everything they learned and applied would be from the basis of starting already wealthy.

    As has been mentioned, its really, really easy to take wealth and turn it into more wealth, but that doesn't do you any good without that starting capital to work with, and if you have that you don't need the advice anyway.
    I saw a study that found that the third generation (grandkids) did better than the second (kids). Also look into the probability of the next generation moving quintiles. The studies will break your heart. We do not live in a meritocracy. Oh sorry . . . we in the USA.
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-08-19 at 11:20 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #280
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    How do you figure?
    How do I figure that your case has no legs? Well, I look at your stated facts, and I look at the conclusion, and I note that there is no relation between them. Your entire case is "rich people go into teaching, therefore teachers are a good source of information about how to make money". Your case is crippled from the fact that it's at best 1/6, further crippled by misunderstanding of causality, and statistics, and further further crippled by the fact that you have not proven any of the absolutes you require ("all rich people can tell you how to become rich", for starters).

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    Learned money skills and behaviors make a difference in ones wealth!
    So? Prove that every rich person that goes into teaching has those skills. Until you do, the far more parsimonious theories are "rich people who don't care about money go into teaching" and "rich people who have money skills employ those skills to make money, and thus don't have time to go into teaching".

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    You are born to a way of thinking about money, and investing.
    No matter how often you repeat it, it will not suddenly start being true.
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    No matter how often you repeat it, it will not suddenly start being true.
    At the very least, this is huge part of OP's argument that actually needs to be supported with some kind of evidence, rather than simply declared as fact.

    Honestly, there's nothing specifically about OP's (most basic) suppositions that aren't bad theories (with some huge caveats), we have just never seen the coherent and supported arguments in their defense.
    Last edited by Willie the Duck; 2019-08-19 at 11:54 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #283
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    No matter how often you repeat it, it will not suddenly start being true.
    And even if it was, it doesn't mean any learnt behaviours will be applicable to those not born to the same. "Don't overspend your trust fund, give the money to the family accountant and not to NuMadoff" is probably great advice, and utterly useless to anyone that doesn't have a trust fund to start with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    Then what exactly is it that these teachers are supposed to be bringing to the table, for said people looking for good advice?
    Availability, and ease of access to adults that have a high probability (as opposed to the population in general) to have exposure to ideas on how to manage wealth and investments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    Every time you reframe the argument, asking if people are arguing against straightforward truisms, you are mistaken that people are arguing against them. The only person you do a disservice to is yourself, in that you have shut yourself off from the one thing that could be accomplished in this thread: changing anyone's mind. By (falsely or mistakenly) framing your debate opposition as straw fools, in a way obvious to everyone else, you make yourself less convincing, since apparently the only way you will engage people's points is by mis-re-stating what they are arguing.
    I just do not see what dots are not there that need to be connected. I need to be explicitly told what part of the event chain is not understood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    Like this. Pretending that people are arguing against this only makes you look ridiculous.
    This is the VERY point that this whole thread has sprang from and has become about. The Rich Dad, Poor Dad argument that teachers don’t know how to be wealthy nonsense.

    The argument is that teachers are a good source for information, not a bad source. Black and white. On or off. 1 or 0.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    This is the other thing you do that we all see, that absolutely cripples your ability to convince others. You keep mixing 'not a bad,' 'good,' and 'great,' as convenient to you (actually, inconvenient, as it has hamstrung your case). I think others would agree that you have done nothing to support the notion that teachers are a great place to go to for cultural capital surrounding wealth, OR for financial advice. Likewise, as I've repeatedly pointed out, no one is saying that teachers are a bad place to go. So that leaves 'good.' I guess we could just have a difference of opinion as to what constitutes good -- is anything over the absolute population average 'good' in your mind? Because, simply by merit of being able to hold down a job and to being able to get through college, teachers come ahead of a population average which includes people that can't meet those standards. However, not many people would consider that sufficient criteria for a standard of 'good.'
    Okay so if we split the population into five quintiles by wealth, then the upper two quintiles would be the upper-class, and the upper-middle-class. This would be the upper 40% of the population. I would place the probability of graining useful information about wealth and income from the upper 40% to be much higher than looking for the same information from the bottom 60%.

    A bad place to look would be somewhere I would not actively look. A good place to look would be someplace that I would actively look. I would actively look from adults that I knew that were from the upper 40%. As a child I would have access to teachers that tend to be from the upper 40%, I would look there.

    The claim that they would not be a good source of information about wealth or investments is loopy. I would definitely find a point or two in the school year to ask about money and investing. “I am interested in investing, what can you tell me about it?” Done.

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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    Availability, and ease of access to adults that have a high probability (as opposed to the population in general) to have exposure to ideas on how to manage wealth and investments.
    You know what those ideas on managing wealth and investment are? They're a guy called Howard who the family hired to do that so they don't have to, who charges two hundred an hour.
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    I searched "socioeconomic investing" on Google and found:

    Socioeconomic Status and Learning from Financial Information

    "The majority of lower socioeconomic status (SES) households do not have any stock investments, which is detrimental to wealth accumulation. Here, we examine one potential driver of this puzzling fact, namely, that SES may influence the process by which people learn from information in financial markets. In an experimental setting we find that low SES participants, relative to medium or high SES ones, form more pessimistic beliefs about the distribution of stock investment outcomes and are less likely to invest in stocks. The pessimism bias in assessing risky assets induced by low SES is robust to several ways of measuring one’s socioeconomic standing and it replicates out of sample. These results suggest that SES shapes in predictable ways people’s beliefs about financial assets, which in turn may induce large differences across households in their propensity to participate in financial markets." https://www.nber.org/papers/w21214

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    You know what those ideas on managing wealth and investment are? They're a guy called Howard who the family hired to do that so they don't have to, who charges two hundred an hour.
    Yes that is also cultural capitol . . . hiring an expert.

    The problem is that most of what that expert does is tell people not to sell after a crash. Also diversify and dollar cost average.
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-08-19 at 12:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    I have to question the legitimacy of any study that wants to claim that poorer households don't invest because theyre misinformed about it rather than because they don't have an abundance of capital which they have no immediate need for and aren't holding in reserve for an emergency.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I have to question the legitimacy of any study that wants to claim that poorer households don't invest because theyre misinformed about it rather than because they don't have an abundance of capital which they have no immediate need for and aren't holding in reserve for an emergency.
    And the amount being held is pitiful. The median American household has less than five thousand in savings. That's a car crash under poor conditions away from being broke.
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I have to question the legitimacy of any study that wants to claim that poorer households don't invest because theyre misinformed about it rather than because they don't have an abundance of capital which they have no immediate need for and aren't holding in reserve for an emergency.
    It is a perspective thing. The poor want to access the investments when they need it. If the time-frame is in the short-term this is not investing, this is gambling. The longer out an investment is, the more investment worthy it is. At least when one just wants to use compound interest and nigh-idiot-proof investing for the long-term. It is hard to plan 10-years out when you cannot (due to lack of resources) plan 6-months out.

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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    It is a perspective thing. The poor want to access the investments when they need it. If the time-frame is in the short-term this is not investing, this is gambling. The longer out an investment is, the more investment worthy it is. At least when one just wants to use compound interest and nigh-idiot-proof investing for the long-term. It is hard to plan 10-years out when you cannot (due to lack of resources) plan 6-months out.
    I don't think you understand. Its not a perspective thing, its a "I literally do not have the money required to do this" thing. Investment requires capital, and lower-income households definitionally do not have this. Its not that they don't want to invest, its that they literally cannot.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    And the amount being held is pitiful. The median American household has less than five thousand in savings. That's a car crash under poor conditions away from being broke.
    My sister and her husband makes more than I do, and I have more money than they do because of saving and investing (just me and my 401k).

    One of my brothers-in-law (I have three) ignored my advice, and did not let his inheritance grow with compound interest (he paid off his house). The amount my wife inherited is moved about, has been used, and is at about the place she got it at (she picked the investment, I would take some out, like $5,000 at a time to invest it in a Kickstarter, make a ~40% profit over 1-2 years, and my wife would then use it all to go on a vacation before I could put the money and the proceeds back . . nothing I can do about it). By the time we retire it should have earned us a lot more than just a one-shot use.

    My friend buys every damned thing he sees, never has money, and is always looking for a loan. He could have less crap and more investments.

    I have so many friends that get a bonus and spend it within a week. Not on anything long-term that would help them long-term or for when they retire. They could have less crap and more investments.

    I am still mad at all my friends who are always broke that did not want to go play with plastic ships at a tournament, for guaranteed money. I made ~$800 that day (over ~10 hours). Not one of my broke friends came to make money . . . even after I told them that at the minimum this would be $20/hour. We could have made enough to collectively have gone to GenCon and bought plenty of crap. They all chose not-money over money.

    If I told my wife that my friend would guarantee me at least $20 per hour to play with little plastic spaceships . . . perhaps even win more money (prizes that sell on eBay), then she would have pushed me out the door, wished me luck, and perhaps would want to have gone on a nice date in the future. The wife's could have even come as well . . . any warm body.

    You cannot even lead a horse to water! People will always (more than you would think) choose not-money over money . . . even if you tell them it is a 100% guarantee.
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-08-19 at 01:22 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #292
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    I just do not see what dots are not there that need to be connected. I need to be explicitly told what part of the event chain is not understood.
    I didn't mention connecting a chain. I said you keep reframing arguments, asking if people are arguing against straightforward truisms. People will say ABC, and you will respond with 'so, what you are saying is XYZ?' You keep arguing against the arguments you would like people to have made, instead of the ones they did.


    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    This is the VERY point that this whole thread has sprang from and has become about. The Rich Dad, Poor Dad argument that teachers don’t know how to be wealthy nonsense.

    The argument is that teachers are a good source for information, not a bad source. Black and white. On or off. 1 or 0.
    I don't think others agree that we are still talking exclusively about Rich Dad, Poor Dad, but rather further claims that you have made. I also do not think anyone else agrees that there is a straight Boolean 1/0 choice (as you seem to acknowledge in the next paragraph). There is bad, there is good, and then there is 'neither bad, nor good.'

    You are correct that the Rich Dad, Poor Dad argument that teachers would specifically be a bad source of investment information is loopy. It is the statement of someone who wanted to convince people that all other sources they had easy access to were not as knowledgeable as he was, and thus they should listen to him. Everyone was in agreement with you on that one. If you somehow thought that you'd just spent the last five pages defending teachers from the accusation that they were specifically bad at investment advice, despite people repeatedly all but yelling at you that that was not what they were saying, I don't know what to say except that you clearly had not been listening to what people were saying.
    Last edited by Willie the Duck; 2019-08-19 at 01:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    Yes that is also cultural capitol . . . hiring an expert.

    The problem is that most of what that expert does is tell people not to sell after a crash. Also diversify and dollar cost average.
    If only they hired a teacher instead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    If only they hired a teacher instead.
    Seriously I had a conversation with a financial planner and he said mostly what he did was to calm folks down so they did not take their money out after a crash. I am sure that they also help folks narrow down the choices.

    To be fair mostly what I do is help people narrow down choices, and fill out forms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    The poor want to access the investments when they need it.
    NO. The poor do not "want" access the investments. They NEED to have access to their money. Because they aren't so rich they can have both investments and rainy fund money. Because when you are poor, you need money for necessities and emergencies, and you can't simply park it in a bank account for years. They literally do NOT have "$175 a month" they can afford to put in a bank for 40 years at an impossible-to-find 10% rate, not when a significant percentage of their months have higher expenditures than they have income.

    This harkens back to your original assertion that "Wealth and IQ and education are correlated", and I've had enough. Your logic doesn't follow, your assertions are cherry-picking, and therefore your conclusions are false. You have no leg to stand on.

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    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    NO. The poor do not "want" access the investments. They NEED to have access to their money. Because they aren't so rich they can have both investments and rainy fund money. Because when you are poor, you need money for necessities and emergencies, and you can't simply park it in a bank account for years. They literally do NOT have "$175 a month" they can afford to put in a bank for 40 years at an impossible-to-find 10% rate, not when a significant percentage of their months have higher expenditures than they have income.

    This harkens back to your original assertion that "Wealth and IQ and education are correlated", and I've had enough. Your logic doesn't follow, your assertions are false, and your conclusions cherry-picking. You have no leg to stand on.

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    I think that if the OP could assuage the image that this is all just a bit of stealth class warfare/the poor are poor because they deserve to be, since they make poor choices, there would be less reason to reject their total premise (which, again, if it is simply that Kiyosaki's is wrong that teachers are a bad investment information source, is not controversial).

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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    I think that if the OP could assuage the image that this is all just a bit of stealth class warfare/the poor are poor because they deserve to be, since they make poor choices, there would be less reason to reject their total premise (which, again, if it is simply that Kiyosaki's is wrong that teachers are a bad investment information source, is not controversial).
    The OP was a classic example of overstretching a hypothesis past breaking point. "A minority of teachers are rich" + "a minority of rich people should be able to tell you how to manage money" ≠ "teachers are a good source of financial knowledge" (the null hypothesis "teachers are about as good at financial advice as any other member of society whose training is not in financial advice" remains plausible).

    The logic never held for even a moment, but whilst at the onset I thought there could be a way to highlight this to the OP so they'd understand where the gaps in their logic are, the way they've morphed their argument twice now to a variation of "therefore the poor are poor is because they refuse/don't have enough IQ to park money they don't have for 40 years" is just making me need a shower or three.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    To the best of my knowledge, DR50 still hasn't acknowledged the detail that you're equally likely to get advice from any random white person, since they have about the same likelihood of being millionaires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    The OP was a classic example of overstretching a hypothesis past breaking point. "A minority of teachers are rich" + "a minority of rich people should be able to tell you how to manage money" ≠ "teachers are a good source of financial knowledge" (the null hypothesis "teachers are about as good at financial advice as any other member of society whose training is not in financial advice" remains plausible).

    The logic never held for even a moment, but whilst at the onset I thought there could be a way to highlight this to the OP so they'd understand where the gaps in their logic are, the way they've morphed their argument twice now to a variation of "therefore the poor are poor is because they refuse/don't have enough IQ to park money they don't have for 40 years" is just making me need a shower or three.
    I do not disagree. Once we got past 'Kiyosaki's is wrong,' the OP had a position they wanted to be right and worked backwards from there. That's almost inherently a recipe for disaster.

    What I am saying, is that if every other point didn't seem like codeword social Darwinism, there might be more general willingness to work with them, as you apparently were. Since the people that might have been willing are the ones that didn't stick with the thread, we'll undoubtedly never know.

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    Default Re: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad poor Dad

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    Seriously I had a conversation with a financial planner and he said mostly what he did was to calm folks down so they did not take their money out after a crash. I am sure that they also help folks narrow down the choices.
    You're missing the point. Here is your argument so far, as I understand it:

    Teachers are great for advice on investing because they become wealthy through pensions (which have nothing whatsoever to do with investing) or they come from wealth, so they have knowledge and resources on how to manage wealth (in the forms of "start off rich" and "hire useless people").

    Surely you can see the problems.
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