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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    I think you missed the point.

    And the point is that this is all pointless -- it's cross-universe garbage on the level of "Stardestroyer vs Enterprise". It's two incompatible sets of assumptions. There is literally no way of knowing if Max or Halo would be immune to some power from some other comic universe, so for all we know, they're immune. As it stands, you're all arguing as if the ad-hoc assumptions of this other comic universe were true in the "Haloverse".

    Now, if you guys want to keep discussing some other webcomic full of Villain Sues and such, please, start a separate thread for that.
    And you absolutely missed the point, unlike a lot of other super hero media the mechanics of various powers are explained in fairly specific detail which means when you compare them to other things it’s fairly easy. And no, the discussion is about character interaction with this comic and I’ll yak about it as long as it pleases me too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Exactly. It's the ultimate "nuh-uh, you can't hurt my character, because I said so" that deserves nothing more than an eye-roll.

    Every time I start to worry that some of my characters are a bit over-powered, I come across something like the Villain Sues in that other comic, and I'm reminded that they're fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    It sounds both badly written and badly defined.
    So i guess its impossible to know.
    The powers question aren’t poorly defined, they are actually extremely well defined with specific limitations and benefits. Just so happens the example tossed out as a potential challenge to Archon is uniquely difficult to deal with, it was sort of an entire arcs effort and then some from the main character to find a way to deal the character.
    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    I dont see any reason for why the paint idea would not work. Its not affecting it, its blocking its vision.
    And refreshing (another BS power) would certainly release the cat on it being some sort of force projection.
    Not to mention, just result in a new bucket of paint.
    Well first off the projection doesn’t actually see on that traditional sense in the first place so paint would likely not be a problem. Second, much like the projection has to actively choose to be effected by things like gravity it also does its giant hulk leaps by ignoring air resistance and friction. Also how is a power turning itself on and off again BS?
    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    It made quite a mess, required both Max and Anvil to step in, and would potentially have gotten a blood sample from Max if Hiro had not also been there.
    The situation there were potentially inches from a massive disaster.

    Sciona meanwhile became a problem because she didnt kick down a few buildings in main street to announce her presence like Vehemence did.
    She hid, so suddenly the actual challenge were to find her in time.
    Yea people underestimate Sciona’s strategy of fighting smarter and not harder when faced with an overwhelming threat, a threat that was really something of an outside context problem for her in the first place. The people she was actually prepared for would have been slaughter wholesale before they even knows she was there. And with blood magic scaling so well alongside a new super powered body she likely will only become a greater threat as time goes on. Also I get the feeling we still haven’t seen the heaviest hitter the supernaturally inclined folks might have to throw out. Or at least we have seen their dirtiest tricks.
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  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Agreed, I see stalwart hiro anvil and maybe amorphus taking the front line and getting it stuck in. I see brook and jiggawatt along with sydney strafing from a distance. Maxima is there to obliterate any real threat that shows itself. Math is likely going all over the place trying to avoid getting bogged down and brick breaking them one at a time. Harem is likely on equipment run again and will take on stragglers with her terminal velocity dropkicks.
    Actually, I expect Max might take Sydney against the main ship. What I think would be funny would be for Max to use Achilles as a battering ram on the enemy ship's shields. As Cora said that's where they need to be. And agree, nice to see Stalwart actually doing something and clearly doing it rather well.
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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    I'm going to be upset if the advanced aliens can't manage something on par with WWII tech.

    P.S. I'll be even more upset if the artifact can be somehow destroyed by WWII tech and Cora hasn't done it. Well, actually Cora might be Chaotic Evil.
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  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrinar View Post
    Why do I find it unsurprising that max killjoy and lord_khaine have strong opinions on the writing quality of something they know barely anything about?
    In response to this and another poster -- I have a strong opinion about whether any of this stuff about a wormy universe has jack to do with the comic that is the subject of this thread -- as in, it doesn't have a damn thing to do with this thread or Grrl Power, and some of us don't want to see page upon page of this thread wasted on this "but the Enterprise as better weapons" nonsense. And if I have to be dismissive of the thing to get that across, then so be it.

    And I'm basing my low, low opinion of its apparent quality on the way its fans are describing it in this thread, and the wikia I found when trying to figure out what the heck people were going on about... I find that quite often the fans of a work will start describing it, I'll take their descriptions at face value, do some reading up on the thing, come to a negative conclusion... and then they'll accuse me of "making statements about something I've never read".


    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrinar View Post
    (Btw, about it making you think your villains are fine. Whether bull**** powers are fine depends on how they are used in the story. Seeing higher lvls of ridiculous powers says little about whether one with lesser ones are fine because that is not what makes them good or bad. Though it is harder to handle the more ridiculous ones. PPS: Just having hard to beat powers is not what defines a sue, villain or otherwise.)
    I'm as much worried about the protagonists as the antagonists.

    And what makes me call Siberia (or whatever) a Villain Sue is the total no-sell, "nuh-uh, you can't" description of her powers and the total unstoppable brutal presentation in the wikia page, and the statements of those posting about her here, all telling us how unstoppable and unbeatable she is and how she'll ignore any attack or any defense brought up. Every character mentioned, she's stronger. Every character mentioned, her powers ignore their defenses. Blah. Whatever.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2019-08-26 at 02:32 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    In response to this and another poster -- I have a strong opinion about whether any of this stuff about a wormy universe has jack to do with the comic that is the subject of this thread
    See, that was my main issue until I clicked on the link to see what the hubbub was about and found it went directly to a picture of a naked woman. A little warning there would have been nice.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapak View Post
    See, that was my main issue until I clicked on the link to see what the hubbub was about and found it went directly to a picture of a naked woman. A little warning there would have been nice.
    Yeah, a little NSFW tag might have been cool there.
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  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    And what makes me call Siberia (or whatever) a Villain Sue is the total no-sell, "nuh-uh, you can't" description of her powers and the total unstoppable brutal presentation in the wikia page, and the statements of those posting about her here, all telling us how unstoppable and unbeatable she is and how she'll ignore any attack or any defense brought up. Every character mentioned, she's stronger. Every character mentioned, her powers ignore their defenses. Blah. Whatever.
    You realize the Siberian is a projection right? Trying to fight the Siberian directly is like a cat trying to catch the red dot. Archon won't be able to catch the red dot either. Opal can probably* make something dangerous using her portals. Archon would get similarly trashed by fighting said portals directly.

    Archon could beat Manton or a laser pointer or Opal. What makes the Siberian a bigger challenge is that the Siberian isn't obviously a projection. She's easy to mistake for a supervillain.

    One time tested formula for villains is
    1) Present seemingly unbeatable villain. Foreshadow weaknesses. Tension and danger ensue.
    2) Heroes discover weakness. Villain is still threatening, but beatable.
    3) Heroes use weaknesses to fight villain.
    Dracula did that.
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  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    I'm as much worried about the protagonists as the antagonists.
    The main protagonist has the ability to sense and control all insects/arachnids/etc. within a few city blocks' distance from her. Just that, no other powers unless you count the Required Secondary Power of being able to multitask coordinating them all. She has to get creative to beat her opponents, who have included a group that the Siberian was a member of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    And what makes me call Siberia (or whatever) a Villain Sue is the total no-sell, "nuh-uh, you can't" description of her powers and the total unstoppable brutal presentation in the wikia page, and the statements of those posting about her here, all telling us how unstoppable and unbeatable she is and how she'll ignore any attack or any defense brought up. Every character mentioned, she's stronger. Every character mentioned, her powers ignore their defenses. Blah. Whatever.
    The primary counterpoint to this is barely mentioned in the wiki article because it's a major spoiler. Specifically, the power in question is actually not some combination of super strength, toughness, etc. Instead, it's the ability to create and control a projection that takes the shape of a person.

    The projection functions by breaking physics rather than being conventionally strong or tough. Countering the projection can be done, but it requires an ability that also functions by breaking physics. The example I'm seeing brought up here is a character who can temporarily stop time for an object he touches.

    However, the real way to beat it is to go after the person who made it, a man named William Manton who is just as vulnerable as any normal person if you attack him rather than his projection.
    Last edited by Douglas; 2019-08-26 at 05:06 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    It sounds both badly written and badly defined.
    So i guess its impossible to know.



    I dont see any reason for why the paint idea would not work. Its not affecting it, its blocking its vision.
    And refreshing (another BS power) would certainly release the cat on it being some sort of force projection.
    Not to mention, just result in a new bucket of paint.



    It made quite a mess, required both Max and Anvil to step in, and would potentially have gotten a blood sample from Max if Hiro had not also been there.
    The situation there were potentially inches from a massive disaster.

    Sciona meanwhile became a problem because she didnt kick down a few buildings in main street to announce her presence like Vehemence did.
    She hid, so suddenly the actual challenge were to find her in time.
    It's not poorly defined at all. Or poorly written for that matter. She is however, an extremely minor character. Like, she gets something like 30 pages in a story that's over a 1000 pages long?

    And how is blocking her vision not affecting her? You can't affect the projection, full stop. If your plan involves affecting the projection in any way, your plan will almost certainly fail. Unless you are using powers that have their own absolutes. Then it's which absolute wins.

    It made a lot of noise, but it did effectively zero damage. If Sydney hadn't leveled up at that exact moment and panicked, they likely could have just relaxed under her shield while it did nothing.

    Sure. And I can respect that. If Sciona succeeding didn't mean jack squat. Her people were already dead and opening the portal would have achieved nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    In response to this and another poster -- I have a strong opinion about whether any of this stuff about a wormy universe has jack to do with the comic that is the subject of this thread -- as in, it doesn't have a damn thing to do with this thread or Grrl Power, and some of us don't want to see page upon page of this thread wasted on this "but the Enterprise as better weapons" nonsense. And if I have to be dismissive of the thing to get that across, then so be it.

    And I'm basing my low, low opinion of its apparent quality on the way its fans are describing it in this thread, and the wikia I found when trying to figure out what the heck people were going on about... I find that quite often the fans of a work will start describing it, I'll take their descriptions at face value, do some reading up on the thing, come to a negative conclusion... and then they'll accuse me of "making statements about something I've never read".




    I'm as much worried about the protagonists as the antagonists.

    And what makes me call Siberia (or whatever) a Villain Sue is the total no-sell, "nuh-uh, you can't" description of her powers and the total unstoppable brutal presentation in the wikia page, and the statements of those posting about her here, all telling us how unstoppable and unbeatable she is and how she'll ignore any attack or any defense brought up. Every character mentioned, she's stronger. Every character mentioned, her powers ignore their defenses. Blah. Whatever.
    We were talking about potential super powered villains Archon could fight and someone suggested a Siberian Expy.

    Honestly, the Siberian is easy to deal with. Once you know the trick behind her power in that the Siberian doesn't actually exist. Her 'creator' is a completely normal human who can't be affected by the Siberian's invincibility trick. Bait the Siberian away, and then blow him away. He might be able to resummon the Siberian, but his reaction time is human.

    The problem is figuring out that he's the source of the Siberian since he typically acts like a scared civilian. But it's not impossible, and likely relatively easy for someone who can sense emotions to figure out.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    It's not poorly defined at all. Or poorly written for that matter. She is however, an extremely minor character. Like, she gets something like 30 pages in a story that's over a 1000 pages long?

    And how is blocking her vision not affecting her? You can't affect the projection, full stop. If your plan involves affecting the projection in any way, your plan will almost certainly fail. Unless you are using powers that have their own absolutes. Then it's which absolute wins.

    It made a lot of noise, but it did effectively zero damage. If Sydney hadn't leveled up at that exact moment and panicked, they likely could have just relaxed under her shield while it did nothing.

    Sure. And I can respect that. If Sciona succeeding didn't mean jack squat. Her people were already dead and opening the portal would have achieved nothing.



    We were talking about potential super powered villains Archon could fight and someone suggested a Siberian Expy.

    Honestly, the Siberian is easy to deal with. Once you know the trick behind her power in that the Siberian doesn't actually exist. Her 'creator' is a completely normal human who can't be affected by the Siberian's invincibility trick. Bait the Siberian away, and then blow him away. He might be able to resummon the Siberian, but his reaction time is human.

    The problem is figuring out that he's the source of the Siberian since he typically acts like a scared civilian. But it's not impossible, and likely relatively easy for someone who can sense emotions to figure out.
    Point of order, the sciona portal opened up like 2 months into the future due to being messed up by the heroes. She very well COULD have gotten an invasion force had she been left alone to do her thing as the genocidal mystery aliens were 55 days away or whatever the actual figure was. Depends on how fast things could be organized and what the heck her people are actually like as we have seen scared decent seeming refugees and, well, sciona. Is she basically general Zod for her people?
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  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Well, her people were called out as complete *******s and got roflcurbstomped by the squiggly aliens, so I'm guessing the needle leans much closer to Sciona than some peasant refugees.

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    The main protagonist has the ability to sense and control all insects/arachnids/etc. within a few city blocks' distance from her. Just that, no other powers unless you count the Required Secondary Power of being able to multitask coordinating them all. She has to get creative to beat her opponents, who have included a group that the Siberian was a member of.
    There was a sidebar there about characters like Siberian being a "good" counter to the nagging worry that I'm letting my own fiction characters get too powerful, or ridiculous.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2019-08-26 at 06:22 PM.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    There was a sidebar there about characters like Siberian being a "good" counter to the nagging worry that I'm letting my own fiction characters get too powerful, or ridiculous.
    Well to that I'll repeat that the Siberian is a very minor character. Really, she's more a plot device than character. An obstacle to overcome if you will. So I wouldn't say that she'd serve as a very good counter unless your own characters are in a similar position.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    I wonder whether her ship gets attacked often like this when people know where she is going? If so she should be more careful. Though In this case I suspect sidney could just replace the shield with her own if it broke. I wonder how her shield compares to the ship shield. Now that we know there is a visual effects when it gets really strained testing it properly would be possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    I'm as much worried about the protagonists as the antagonists.

    And what makes me call Siberia (or whatever) a Villain Sue is the total no-sell, "nuh-uh, you can't" description of her powers and the total unstoppable brutal presentation in the wikia page, and the statements of those posting about her here, all telling us how unstoppable and unbeatable she is and how she'll ignore any attack or any defense brought up. Every character mentioned, she's stronger. Every character mentioned, her powers ignore their defenses. Blah. Whatever.
    Achilles is invulnerable so if you asked the question whether a character can kill him or whether their powers affect him you can make a long list of supers who can't kill him and he no sells many forms of attack. He can easily be stopped in many other ways, but killing is likely not among them outside of stuff that can ignore invulnerability in which case it would be anyones guess whether it would affect him or not.

    Similarly going after the projection is not the way to beat Siberian unless you have weird or reality bending powers (and for weird and reality bending powers it tends to be hard to guess how they interact between settings). That would be like trying to bring more ships to bear against the death start instead of going against its design flaw. Dangers meant to be beaten by the protagonist by finding their weakness tend to be hard to impossible to handle by going for a traditional fight.


    In response to this and another poster -- I have a strong opinion about whether any of this stuff about a wormy universe has jack to do with the comic that is the subject of this thread -- as in, it doesn't have a damn thing to do with this thread or Grrl Power, and some of us don't want to see page upon page of this thread wasted on this "but the Enterprise as better weapons" nonsense. And if I have to be dismissive of the thing to get that across, then so be it.
    You did start that after 4 comments about the topic (or 5 if you want to count Lamechs example list). Not exactly pages. But if it was an attempt to prevent that topic, such comments don't seem likely to accomplish that. Writing ignorant sounding bait posts tends to lead to people correcting or at best ignoring them, not dropping the topic.

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrinar View Post
    I wonder whether her ship gets attacked often like this when people know where she is going? If so she should be more careful. Though In this case I suspect sidney could just replace the shield with her own if it broke. I wonder how her shield compares to the ship shield. Now that we know there is a visual effects when it gets really strained testing it properly would be possible.


    Achilles is invulnerable so if you asked the question whether a character can kill him or whether their powers affect him you can make a long list of supers who can't kill him and he no sells many forms of attack. He can easily be stopped in many other ways, but killing is likely not among them outside of stuff that can ignore invulnerability in which case it would be anyones guess whether it would affect him or not.

    Similarly going after the projection is not the way to beat Siberian unless you have weird or reality bending powers (and for weird and reality bending powers it tends to be hard to guess how they interact between settings). That would be like trying to bring more ships to bear against the death start instead of going against its design flaw. Dangers meant to be beaten by the protagonist by finding their weakness tend to be hard to impossible to handle by going for a traditional fight.




    You did start that after 4 comments about the topic (or 5 if you want to count Lamechs example list). Not exactly pages. But if it was an attempt to prevent that topic, such comments don't seem likely to accomplish that. Writing ignorant sounding bait posts tends to lead to people correcting or at best ignoring them, not dropping the topic.
    Achilles only has that ONE power, he's not also eating superhumans or whatever the heck nonsense is going on with her, ignoring physics, etc.

    Everything I know about the other character, the comic, etc, is from FANS of that other comic posting about it here, and the Wikia. If I have the wrong impression of it, consider why.

    At this point, I don't care. Some sicko's naked tiger lady Villain Sue mind projection thing in some other low-grade comic has nothing to do with Grrl Power or this thread. But I'm done responding to any of this garbage about that other comic, obviously no one else minds if we waste the entire 50 pages on off-topic low-grade nonsense.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2019-08-26 at 08:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Achilles only has that ONE power, he's not also eating superhumans or whatever the heck nonsense is going on with her, ignoring physics, etc.

    Everything I know about the other character, the comic, etc, is from FANS of that other comic posting about it here, and the Wikia. If I have the wrong impression of it, consider why.

    At this point, I don't care. Some sicko's naked tiger lady Villain Sue mind projection thing in some other low-grade comic has nothing to do with Grrl Power or this thread. But I'm done responding to any of this garbage about that other comic, obviously no one else minds if we waste the entire 50 pages on off-topic low-grade nonsense.
    Because you act like a jerk, leading people to respond to you antagonistically, leading to you getting a worse impression of the work in question, which makes you act more like a jerk, and thus creating a continuous downward spiral until you've upset multiple people and you hate an otherwise widely liked story?


    As for off topic, it really isn't. We are literally talking about Grrl Power and how an expy of a different villain would be handled by the cast. In between those posts we are talking about the comic itself. How much more on topic do you need, a literal retelling of what happened in today's comic?



    On a side note, is anyone feeling any tension from this invasion? I know I'm not, but I think that's because we just came from Sydney fighting giant monsters who wiped out a planet.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Frankly, I don't feel much tension ever in this comic. You read it to see what crazy plan will be tried (and inevitably succeed) this time.

  18. - Top - End - #138
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post

    On a side note, is anyone feeling any tension from this invasion? I know I'm not, but I think that's because we just came from Sydney fighting giant monsters who wiped out a planet.
    Not really. If I we had a different author, I expect that our heroes are about to get nuked, at a minimum. Expendable peons getting wrecked by enemy elites? If you drop a nuke they are down elites and you are down pawns. That's a win.

    It is possible the artifact is fragile and Cora is just Chaotic Evil. Honestly that's the most likely scenario.

    In general, I recommend making the villains more powerful than the heroes when its a sort of direct conflict story. At least apparently at the start. Plucky hacker against the crime ring. Goku against generic alien overlord #57. Modern day humans against high-tech alien invasion. Then the story is about how the hacker outwits the crime ring. Goku overcomes his constipation to become more powerful or the humans discover vampires. Villains get to be OP and nigh-invulnerable.
    Last edited by Lamech; 2019-08-26 at 09:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamech View Post
    It is possible the artifact is fragile and Cora is just Chaotic Evil. Honestly that's the most likely scenario.
    Most murder-hobos are chaotic evil I agree. No matter what their listed alignment may be.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Achilles only has that ONE power, he's not also eating superhumans or whatever the heck nonsense is going on with her, ignoring physics, etc.
    And I’ve said Achilles could probably pop her, or at least hold her still.
    Pretend not to understand her powers all you want but I’ve made some posts to very concisely describe them plus a whole wiki page got posted so snidely acting like like it’s beneath you to remember details like that or the character name is fairy silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Everything I know about the other character, the comic, etc, is from FANS of that other comic posting about it here, and the Wikia. If I have the wrong impression of it, consider why.
    I have considered, and it says a lot more about you and how you over reacted to a couple posts talking about potential interactions between characters powers by insulting the quality of the story Siberian is in, the fans of the web serial, and right down here the popularity of series despite it likely being far bigger then the webcomic we are talking about right now, and the character of the writer. Entirely based on your distaste for a conversation I have zero intention of being chased off of because you want to be nasty about it for no reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    At this point, I don't care. Some sicko's naked tiger lady Villain Sue mind projection thing in some other low-grade comic has nothing to do with Grrl Power or this thread. But I'm done responding to any of this garbage about that other comic, obviously no one else minds if we waste the entire 50 pages on off-topic low-grade nonsense.
    Ohhhhhh no, if you want to keep insulting literally everyone tangentially related to this conversation and refusing to even pretend to engage in the thread then you don’t get to call other people’s posts “low grade” or “off topic”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Frankly, I don't feel much tension ever in this comic. You read it to see what crazy plan will be tried (and inevitably succeed) this time.
    In a different story I would expect the press to send all kinds of video of heroes cutting loose on alien invaders with the safety’s off to turn into a PR nightmare and make an entire arc of even long term plot of dealing with the fallout once the alien invasion thing was handled but here I think this will be a nice showcase of the side characters and funny example of why you never invade a planet next to a military funded justice leagues home base with one or two people getting hurt but not long term badly angers Max who either blows that ship out of the sky with extreme prejudice or personally just enters the thing and clears it out to stop the danger. Either way I think this fight will show off Max’s heights of collateral pain with some explosive Deus Ex Maxima action.
    Last edited by Dragonus45; 2019-08-27 at 03:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    I mean, calling Worm a „low-grade comic" isn't exactly wrong, in a Obi-Wan kinda way.

    Seeing that it is a novel.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Though I do not agree with the way Max has been conveying the message, I do agree that the whole 'would this character from this other universe be able to beat characters from this universe' is kinda off-topic, and if it grows into a big discussion it definitely does deserve thread of its own.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I never really got into dark stories much. Ive read all of one dark universe and that was anne bishops dark jewels trilogy where the high lord of hell is both a main character and one of the good guys. For a given definition of good. Honestly, I like my books like I like my movies and games, escapism through light hearteded happiness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Frankly, I don't feel much tension ever in this comic. You read it to see what crazy plan will be tried (and inevitably succeed) this time.
    Here is the thing.

    You can't have tensions and light-hearted happiness. There needs to be a threat, that will cause protagonist substantial grief, in order to create tension, at least in terms of superheroes. The best you can do with tensions and light-hearted happiness is some kind of romantic drama, but that doesn't have as much tension as something more dark.

    For example Teletubbies have light-hearted happiness, but there aren't any tensions there.
    OTOH Fullmetal Alchemist has a ton of tensions and payoff, but not much light-hearted happiness.
    Last edited by -D-; 2019-08-27 at 04:48 AM.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Frankly, I don't feel much tension ever in this comic. You read it to see what crazy plan will be tried (and inevitably succeed) this time.
    There isn't supposed to be much tension in the comic. Look at the description "Grrl Power is a comic about a crazy nerdette that becomes a superheroine. Humor, action, cheesecake, beefcake, 'splosions, and maybe some drama. Possibly ninjas." Notice humor and action are at the front and "maybe drama" is at the end.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    There isn't supposed to be much tension in the comic. Look at the description "Grrl Power is a comic about a crazy nerdette that becomes a superheroine. Humor, action, cheesecake, beefcake, 'splosions, and maybe some drama. Possibly ninjas." Notice humor and action are at the front and "maybe drama" is at the end.
    Plus it's all still in a flashback in which the world is safe, the characters are happy, and several of the supers in ARC are shown to still be alive.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    And I’ve said Achilles could probably pop her, or at least hold her still.
    Pretend not to understand her powers all you want but I’ve made some posts to very concisely describe them plus a whole wiki page got posted so snidely acting like like it’s beneath you to remember details like that or the character name is fairy silly.

    I have considered, and it says a lot more about you and how you over reacted to a couple posts talking about potential interactions between characters powers by insulting the quality of the story Siberian is in, the fans of the web serial, and right down here the popularity of series despite it likely being far bigger then the webcomic we are talking about right now, and the character of the writer. Entirely based on your distaste for a conversation I have zero intention of being chased off of because you want to be nasty about it for no reason.

    Ohhhhhh no, if you want to keep insulting literally everyone tangentially related to this conversation and refusing to even pretend to engage in the thread then you don’t get to call other people’s posts “low grade” or “off topic”.
    Here's the original post, with a link to a wiki page featuring amateur-hour art of a naked tiger lady, and a description of an unstoppable untouchable cannibal...

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...n#post24105810
    (but it appears the target of the link has changed?)

    So the first thing I've ever heard of this character ever is that an expy of her would be a huge threat to Archon, and then a description of the character that includes "both the unstoppable force and immovable object", "unaffected by physical forces or any parahuman ability", "immune to teleportation", "immune to biological manipulation", "ignores armor", "ignores invulnerability", "ignores gravity selectively", "ignores physics selectively", etc.

    Followed up by a bunch of posts going on and on about how even Achilles shouldn't be able to resist her attacks, and whatever, how none of the characters in this comic would be a match for her, and trying to excuse the character and excuse the powerset and so on...

    And she's not even a character in this comic... the basic underlying worldbuilding assumptions are all different, the "physics" are different, so the whole thing also hits square on loathsome "would the Enterprise or a Star Destroyer win?" arguments.

    At the end, every effort made to defend the whole thing has just proven a more convincing argument that my original reaction was correct.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2019-08-27 at 11:01 AM.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Here's the original post, with a link to a wiki page featuring amateur-hour art of a naked tiger lady, and a description of an unstoppable untouchable cannibal...

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...n#post24105810
    (but it appears the target of the link has changed?)
    You mean this

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    Of course, it's amateur hour. The work in question is a Web Novel or something as in NO PICTURES. The picture on the wiki is fan works. You don't blame Grrlpower for some random dude drawing a stick figure of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    So the first thing I've ever heard of this character ever is that an expy of her would be a huge threat to Archon, and then a description of a character that includes "both the unstoppable force and immovable object", "unaffected by physical forces or any parahuman ability", "immune to teleportation", "immune to biological manipulation", "ignores armor", "ignores invulnerability", "ignores gravity selectively", "ignores physics selectively", etc.


    And she's not even a character in this comic... the basic underlying worldbuilding assumptions are all different, the "physics" are different, so the whole thing also hits square on loathsome "would the Enterprise or a Star Destroyer win?" arguments.
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    I think the original poster was just comparing different character matchups and suggesting giving something as powerful as Siberian to fight the Archon, to up the ante (instead of hordes of easily dispatchable bad guys).

    Just because two characters are from different universes never stopped anyone from asking "Who would win in a fight between X and Y?". People do it all the time. You may not like it, but people are gonna do it regardless.

    But to your greater point. Siberian is not a Villain Sue. Is she powerful? Yes. She's a force to be reckoned? Yes. But she's not omnipotent or on the same level as Villain Sue. You can't defeat her, for the same reason you can't kill an Angel in Evangelion without killing its core. And her core is some guy, located miles away. Basically, she's a walking hard-light/mental projection. And even if you "destroy her", another projection just pops up and kills you.
    Last edited by -D-; 2019-08-27 at 11:15 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #148
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    The thing with tension is, we need a reason to feel it. We dont get that here because the first impact between arcswat and evil aliens is evil aliens being knocked over like bowling pins. Had they shut down the super powers or showed they could take them, or even demonstrated that there were so many of them they could drown our heroes under a mountain of dead bodies, there would be tension. But none of that has happened yet. Instead its supers versus goons. Its like pretending there is tension when batman takes on the jokers troops. Yeah, we all know this isnt going to be a fight, but a butt whuppin. Even if the joker himself later pulls off a big scary move, taking out the trash isnt going to make readers edgy.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by -D- View Post
    Here is the thing.

    You can't have tensions and light-hearted happiness. There needs to be a threat, that will cause protagonist substantial grief, in order to create tension, at least in terms of superheroes. The best you can do with tensions and light-hearted happiness is some kind of romantic drama, but that doesn't have as much tension as something more dark.

    For example Teletubbies have light-hearted happiness, but there aren't any tensions there.
    OTOH Fullmetal Alchemist has a ton of tensions and payoff, but not much light-hearted happiness.
    The problem is that the action is played straight, not funny. In this case at least. Cora vs the muggers was light hearted if a bit morbid.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    The problem is that the action is played straight, not funny. In this case at least. Cora vs the muggers was light hearted if a bit morbid.
    I feel like Dave wants to show off how cool and vast his world is, I vaguely remember there was actually a webcomic before this that Dabbler is actually from but I never read it and I’m not sure if it’s cannon or not, and I think the rapid fire pace we have had for showing us everything has lead to odd inconsistencies in the tone of different portion of the setting. This fight at least feels like it will be a clear cut example of the supers showing off how awesome they are to wow Cora. Theeeeeeen some non mook will show up to be a vague threat they take down and move on to fun party times with potential social fallout from this happening at a press release and space cops also showing up to witness the bloodbath. Problem is, we know that Cora don’t play when it comes to a fight and she considers these fel folks to be a real threat so we automatically think this should be a more desperate fight then it’s going to actually be after this page established the real tone. The whole situation comes with some real whiplash.
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