The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    We know all the weapons that Cora has been described as having are energy weapons. The Fel are rather well equipped to shut her down. Arc-Swat is comfortable with the hand-to-hand stuff and only has a couple people who toss energy attacks around (and Brooke(!) found a way to use an energy attack to great effect).

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Brook is said to process information differently that other people. So while she can seem dumb at times, she really isn't. Maybe she falls on the autistic spectrum some?
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    That was how I read that line back in the day. Of course, if we focused on and developed other characters, we'd have a better idea.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Brook is said to process information differently that other people. So while she can seem dumb at times, she really isn't. Maybe she falls on the autistic spectrum some?
    Well.. she apperently missed some rather obvious cues to the robbery thing.
    And instead picked up the rather subtle bit about how Max cant leave lipstick marks since her lips are naturally red.
    And connected it to something fishy going on.

    We know all the weapons that Cora has been described as having are energy weapons. The Fel are rather well equipped to shut her down. Arc-Swat is comfortable with the hand-to-hand stuff and only has a couple people who toss energy attacks around (and Brooke(!) found a way to use an energy attack to great effect).
    At the same time, Cora has been descriped as a "dps" type, compared to the more rounded Dabbler.
    So if the Fell is then specifically geared to counter her main stick (leaving smoking craters),
    then yes they are likely a bigger issue for her.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Ok well at least some of the supers need advice on how to fight them. Adds a little extra import to the fight.
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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    It is a bit weird though. So dabbler already knows an electricity based way to take down their shields? Are there really no scifi energy weapons that can do the same which would destroy their whole forced melee strategy?

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrinar View Post
    It is a bit weird though. So dabbler already knows an electricity based way to take down their shields? Are there really no scifi energy weapons that can do the same which would destroy their whole forced melee strategy?
    While you could certainly make devices that can put out the correct power, are you going to keep one of them around if you don't know the Fle are going to attack you?
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrinar View Post
    It is a bit weird though. So dabbler already knows an electricity based way to take down their shields? Are there really no scifi energy weapons that can do the same which would destroy their whole forced melee strategy?
    This might also be a theory dabbler had about their shields that she hadn't been in a position to test to test untill now.
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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    While you could certainly make devices that can put out the correct power, are you going to keep one of them around if you don't know the Fle are going to attack you?
    Dabbler can teleport weapons at will from her storage. It's absurd she wouldn't have a weapon like that in her toolbox.
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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Its possible that supplying the necessary kind of power was problematic.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Jiggawatt's look has... changed.
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  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    While you could certainly make devices that can put out the correct power, are you going to keep one of them around if you don't know the Fel are going to attack you?
    Yes. It's called an arc cannon, and like all weapons it has multiple uses against multiple targets.

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    I figure there are few possible options, first is that she has a weapon or device that can create a wide scale field to neutralize the shields but it would take longer to set up and use then she has right now or a relevant super can’t just do it do it faster. The second is that for some reason or another the Fel aren’t ever totally the same since they constantly assimilate people and things and she is working out an ad hoc solution to these particular shields on the fly. Or perhaps she has been thinking on this idea for a while but didn’t think she would be dealing the fel any time soon on earth and she used the parts for her anti fel shield gun for something else. Either way it reinforces the “supers are damn cool no matter where you are from” feel of the fight.
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  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Im uncertain about why there are any sort of surprise here
    Cora straight up explained "Energy weapons can wear down or overwhelm their shields".

    Its just likely limited how many energy weapons that are able to deliver the same sort of substained output as Jiggawat.
    And we also saw, that what Jiggawat mainly accomplished were to suppress the shield enough for Goose and Seneca to finish the job.

    If anything its kinda alarming, as it took 3 Archon Members to deal with 2 Fell Foot Soldiers.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrinar View Post
    It is a bit weird though. So dabbler already knows an electricity based way to take down their shields? Are there really no scifi energy weapons that can do the same which would destroy their whole forced melee strategy?
    Yeah, these shields are... not impressive. I was expecting that they would be able to standard up to modern weapons at least. I'm beginning to think they couldn't even stand up to weapons we were using 70+ years ago! Crap, Brook was able to overwhelm them and I don't see a mushroom cloud!

    That said, Jiggawatt is OP. She can apparently create electrons and positrons Ex Nihilo, and if she can do alternating current she must be able to hoover them back up. She's squishy when she isn't in lightning form though.
    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Im uncertain about why there are any sort of surprise here
    Cora straight up explained "Energy weapons can wear down or overwhelm their shields".
    The thing is that these shields are utterly weaksauce. Heatwave overwhelmed them with what appears to be far, far less power than would be in low-tier nuke.
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  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Yeah, these shields are... not impressive. I was expecting that they would be able to standard up to modern weapons at least. I'm beginning to think they couldn't even stand up to weapons we were using 70+ years ago! Crap, Brook was able to overwhelm them and I don't see a mushroom cloud!

    That said, Jiggawatt is OP. She can apparently create electrons and positrons Ex Nihilo, and if she can do alternating current she must be able to hoover them back up. She's squishy when she isn't in lightning form though.
    You can hardly claim the shields dont stand up to modern weapons, when Jiggawat is actively working on supressing them
    Of course they wont block anything if they are down.

    The thing is that these shields are utterly weaksauce. Heatwave overwhelmed them with what appears to be far, far less power than would be in low-tier nuke.
    Heatwave didnt overwhelm them. But the shields are not perfect, and does let small amounts of energy though if heavily focused upon.
    And Heatwave then focused that energy on a grenade, who blew up.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Heatwave didnt overwhelm them. But the shields are not perfect, and does let small amounts of energy though if heavily focused upon.
    Yeah, if you use enough energy some gets through and can cook off their grenades etc. That's how they get overwhelmed. The commentary explicitly said that.
    That’s what Cora was talking about when she said their shields could be overwhelmed.
    WWII weaponry can unleash massively more destruction than Brook did. If those shields can't stand up to the stuff we had in WWII, how the hell do the Fell use their energy shields to make a melee slog? Secondly, the aliens don't appear to have any sort of serious weaponry of their own. Nuke the heroes already! Aliens invaders should have weaponry at least as good as modern weaponry. Similarly what the heck is up with the tiny explosions they are using on the Cora's ship's shield? Don't they have nuclear weapons? This is the minimum of what their weapons should be able to do. Minimum.
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  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    You do realize they are firing into the atmosphere, and on a backwater planet that shouldn't have any high-end weapons, while trying to retrieve something valuable that Cora looted? Limiting the engagement and environmental concerns are going to play a role. Which is why Cora wants to book it, before these chumps up the ante.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamech View Post
    Yeah, if you use enough energy some gets through and can cook off their grenades etc. That's how they get overwhelmed. The commentary explicitly said that.

    WWII weaponry can unleash massively more destruction than Brook did. If those shields can't stand up to the stuff we had in WWII, how the hell do the Fell use their energy shields to make a melee slog? Secondly, the aliens don't appear to have any sort of serious weaponry of their own. Nuke the heroes already! Aliens invaders should have weaponry at least as good as modern weaponry. Similarly what the heck is up with the tiny explosions they are using on the Cora's ship's shield? Don't they have nuclear weapons? This is the minimum of what their weapons should be able to do. Minimum.
    Or, you know, this Seeing as this is what modern culture thinks when it sees sci fi battles. We dont know how the weapons interact with a ships shield. Are they ameliorated when they connect? And remember the ships shields are covering the battlefield for now as well.

    As for brook, she doesnt just fire off heat beams, she can heat anything she targets to the point where it turns into PLASMA. Her being able to burn a small hole in their shields and target a grenade arent that extraordinary. Im honestly unsure what ww2 weapons you are talking about, as im not sure what short of nukes can reduce an area with pinpoint accuracy to plasma, if even that can.
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  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Also, I feel like people suggesting that they should be able to tank nukes are failing to consider the ramifications of setting off a nuke on an army attempting to engage yours in melee.
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  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Or, you know, this Seeing as this is what modern culture thinks when it sees sci fi battles. We dont know how the weapons interact with a ships shield. Are they ameliorated when they connect? And remember the ships shields are covering the battlefield for now as well.

    As for brook, she doesnt just fire off heat beams, she can heat anything she targets to the point where it turns into PLASMA. Her being able to burn a small hole in their shields and target a grenade arent that extraordinary. Im honestly unsure what ww2 weapons you are talking about, as im not sure what short of nukes can reduce an area with pinpoint accuracy to plasma, if even that can.
    Lamech has been pretty consistently stating the opening salvos in any engagement should be city buster nukes (q.f. Fat Man and Little Boy). An idea loaded with so much politics I got a Warning just thinking about it.

  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    As for brook, she doesnt just fire off heat beams, she can heat anything she targets to the point where it turns into PLASMA. Her being able to burn a small hole in their shields and target a grenade arent that extraordinary. Im honestly unsure what ww2 weapons you are talking about, as im not sure what short of nukes can reduce an area with pinpoint accuracy to plasma, if even that can.
    As not even that she directly burned an actual hole in the shield.
    Its just that it only managed to block 90% of the heat she was producing.
    Apperently, that focused was enough to set off a grenade.

    WWII weaponry can unleash massively more destruction than Brook did. If those shields can't stand up to the stuff we had in WWII, how the hell do the Fell use their energy shields to make a melee slog? Secondly, the aliens don't appear to have any sort of serious weaponry of their own. Nuke the heroes already! Aliens invaders should have weaponry at least as good as modern weaponry. Similarly what the heck is up with the tiny explosions they are using on the Cora's ship's shield? Don't they have nuclear weapons? This is the minimum of what their weapons should be able to do. Minimum.
    Likely individual foot soldiers dont have shields powerful enough to block a direct nuke.
    Thats not a problem if they drop their expendable melee chaff in close range of the opposition.
    If nukes are an issue then they likely just drop one of their big beasts.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Or, you know, this Seeing as this is what modern culture thinks when it sees sci fi battles.
    Boo! Hiss! Star Trek also has absurd space battles. How is everything so close together? Actually, the Original Series from what I've seen had better space battles.

    Really the visual medium is to blame. You want fancy detail and cool shots, but its difficult to justify in space.

    Side note, you can go the route of Eva and give everything an Absolute Terror Field. But those can withstand nukes.
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  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Side note, you can go the route of Eva and give everything an Absolute Terror Field. But those can withstand nukes.
    Well again, the big things Sydney killed likely did have such a field.
    It did look like something you needed capital ship weapons to beat down, if you tried for a brute force solution.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Well again, the big things Sydney killed likely did have such a field.
    It did look like something you needed capital ship weapons to beat down, if you tried for a brute force solution.
    Yeah she had to teleport inside its shield to hit it, and even then, her tank confetti beam took several shots to bring the first guy down. Though it may have been an issue of sheer size disparity then. Lets face it, it doesnt matter if your fist sized laser beam can go straight through an imperial star destroyer because thats a tiny freaking hole, so until it hits something vital or carves a very long swath of destruction, its not going to bring down the star destroyer fast.
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  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Actually, Star Trek battles are likely more right than wrong. Read up on light speed lag.

  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    If your engagement range is at even 0.01 light seconds that are 3000km. At 0.01 seconds you need truly ridiculous acceleration compared to your size to make prediction useless by random movement. (If you want to change your position by 100m from its projected position in 0.01s you need an acceleration of 2000000 m/s^2) (And smart missiles with a greater acceleration than the target could compensate for the trouble with aiming, and thanks to the lag if you have really fast ones, like >0.5c you would only see them once they have passed half the distance or more.)

    Star trek combat is closer than they should need to hit.

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    Aaaaand there goes the absolute last vestige of tension in the comic.
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    Because maxima can now core out fel supercarrier ships with a single focused blast of her hand. Im sure she had to stat dump into her blaster power and all but geez. Ok, so the big scary fel boogeymen of outer space are cosmic jokes to arcswat, the supernatural are jokes to arcswat. And there might be a handful of bad guys out there in the super community able to fight on par with maxima. Yay? Its funny, the first time I read the comic, I thought sydney had joined in on the blast because it looked like maxima was grabbing an orb and I was thinking, "Ok, a combo attack? It doesnt seem like sydney would add much, but if the shield was just BARELY holding, that little extra oomph could make a difference." But no, it was just maxima putting in an effort for a change.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Aaaaand there goes the absolute last vestige of tension in the comic.
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    Because maxima can now core out fel supercarrier ships with a single focused blast of her hand. Im sure she had to stat dump into her blaster power and all but geez. Ok, so the big scary fel boogeymen of outer space are cosmic jokes to arcswat, the supernatural are jokes to arcswat. And there might be a handful of bad guys out there in the super community able to fight on par with maxima. Yay? Its funny, the first time I read the comic, I thought sydney had joined in on the blast because it looked like maxima was grabbing an orb and I was thinking, "Ok, a combo attack? It doesnt seem like sydney would add much, but if the shield was just BARELY holding, that little extra oomph could make a difference." But no, it was just maxima putting in an effort for a change.
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    It's not like it was not established early on that Maxima is way bayond typical power scale. We only had two fights which had some real struggle in them so far: super brawl at the parking lot and the fight between Sydney and those xenocidal titans. The point of this fight right now is yet to be seen and sometimes the conflict is not about fisticuffs but the fallout that comes from it. It is more challenging to write about characters, which cannot be challenged directly, but it is not impossible. I will wait and see how things will play out, to make any judgment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
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    It's not like it was not established early on that Maxima is way bayond typical power scale. We only had two fights which had some real struggle in them so far: super brawl at the parking lot and the fight between Sydney and those xenocidal titans. The point of this fight right now is yet to be seen and sometimes the conflict is not about fisticuffs but the fallout that comes from it. It is more challenging to write about characters, which cannot be challenged directly, but it is not impossible. I will wait and see how things will play out, to make any judgment.
    I mean yeah we know maxima is basically top tier super level. But the rest of arcswat took part in the absolute stomp fest of these big scary aliens as well as the supernatural enemies. Vehemence was a great inclusion into the series because it established that arcswat CANT take down every threat with ease. But since then all we have seen is stomp, after stomp, after stomp. And yes there are enemies that cant just be punched, but those are the responsibility of arclight or arc dark to handle. Arcswat is the fist in face portion of archon and so far they have yet to face an enemy besides vehemence that they cant fairly easily take down in that manner.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

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