The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    So the question is, where will the tension come from? It does not have to come from fights at all. Will Sydney's PTSD be explored more? Will there be a social and administrative fallout from this sudden battle with aliens to deal with? Will Stalwart spoil his perfect suit or lose that golden pin in the fray?

    I have my hopes for some interesting study of consequences to those super brawls. This was one of the interesing things about Grrl Power for me in the first place: addition of some common sense to a superhero story. We have seen so far heroes help with fixing up collateral damage, some questions concerning legal responsibility in state of being mind-controlled to a degree.
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  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    So the question is, where will the tension come from? It does not have to come from fights at all. Will Sydney's PTSD be explored more? Will there be a social and administrative fallout from this sudden battle with aliens to deal with? Will Stalwart spoil his perfect suit or lose that golden pin in the fray?

    I have my hopes for some interesting study of consequences to those super brawls. This was one of the interesing things about Grrl Power for me in the first place: addition of some common sense to a superhero story. We have seen so far heroes help with fixing up collateral damage, some questions concerning legal responsibility in state of being mind-controlled to a degree.
    That is very possible. We have already seen the dueling media portrayals of supers as good or bad, though I get the feeling it was meant more to mock real life media than to establish that archon will have a tough time getting fully accepted by the people. However, again, thats not really something the main cast is meant to handle. We have arianna doing the media spin cycle mostly in the background with some news conferences like this interrupted one to show they are happening. Its... the best analogy I can think of is, the xmen whenever a mutant registration law gets brought up. They know about it, they worry about it, but there isnt anything they directly DO about it. They are xmen, not politicians. So even while worrying about registration, they are taking care of magneto for the billionth time, or having to kill jean grey... AGAIN. And dealing with the act when or if it passes.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Aaaaand there goes the absolute last vestige of tension in the comic.
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    Because maxima can now core out fel supercarrier ships with a single focused blast of her hand. Im sure she had to stat dump into her blaster power and all but geez. Ok, so the big scary fel boogeymen of outer space are cosmic jokes to arcswat, the supernatural are jokes to arcswat. And there might be a handful of bad guys out there in the super community able to fight on par with maxima. Yay? Its funny, the first time I read the comic, I thought sydney had joined in on the blast because it looked like maxima was grabbing an orb and I was thinking, "Ok, a combo attack? It doesnt seem like sydney would add much, but if the shield was just BARELY holding, that little extra oomph could make a difference." But no, it was just maxima putting in an effort for a change.
    The tension is in the xenocidal titans being at least as overpowered as Max, and they are still out there somewhere. That Cora doesn't know about them is interesting, but they are bigger fish than this federation is used to, or capable of dealing with.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    The tension is in the xenocidal titans being at least as overpowered as Max, and they are still out there somewhere. That Cora doesn't know about them is interesting, but they are bigger fish than this federation is used to, or capable of dealing with.
    You mean the titans sydney blew apart roughly 30 seconds after she figured out their weak points? Yeah the chance of her dying was still very much so there, but if sydney could do it with her much weaker destructo beam, then maxima would have had far less issue as she doesnt require shutting down some of her powers to use others like sydney and her orb management. I mean seriously, we got one moment of them being really bad news, the time when sydney tanked what appears to be their primary weapon and it brought her shield down into the red. After that, she was back to insulting them and destroying them. Their other attacks werent hurting her.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    I wonder whether I should severely increase the estimation of Maximas attack power or assume that capital ship firepower is just kinda pathetic for advanced civilizations.

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    yeah, i think i already commented a few times about how Max is bad for the tension in this comic.
    In part because there are just about nothing, Achilles being the likely exception, that she cant hurt.
    Though she does also have an easily exploited weakness.

    then maxima would have had far less issue as she doesnt require shutting down some of her powers to use others
    Well thats not directly the entire story?
    She dont shut them down, but she can only focus one of them at the time.

    I wonder whether I should severely increase the estimation of Maximas attack power or assume that capital ship firepower is just kinda pathetic for advanced civilizations.
    Its likely just that this was a perfect setup for Max.
    Covered behind a 1-way shield she was able to not only focus her power pool upon the ability to blast things,
    but also cannibalize her baseline super abilities like speed, toughness, flight and super strenght, for even more blasting power.
    Here while she is busy taking down a capital ship, then its not impossible you could have killed her with a big sniper rifle.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    After that, she was back to insulting them and destroying them. Their other attacks werent hurting her.
    The main weapons of the aliens could break down her shield, but lighter ones could not. Once Sydney realized what the big attacks could do and that they required a short "charge up" time she avoided their attacks and ran. She knew if she stuck around they would figure out a way to get her.
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  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    The main weapons of the aliens could break down her shield, but lighter ones could not. Once Sydney realized what the big attacks could do and that they required a short "charge up" time she avoided their attacks and ran. She knew if she stuck around they would figure out a way to get her.
    She was worried about the possibility. Up till that point they had demonstrated nothing she couldnt handle but she played it safe and smart by not trying to "grind" like some sort of rpg where if they got lucky and killed her she could respawn. They may or may not have an ability they hadnt used yet that could have defeated her, but as things stood, by fighting smart she was able to overcome them. She was able to bypass their shield, and their tractor beam. Their main attack seems to be ground only and their air attacks arent enough to damage her shield. But it wasnt worth the risk, even if she might have gotten a third upgrade had she stuck around and taken out the second wave entirely (and survived of course).
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Well thats the key word there. Had she survived.
    The first one was still a danged had it managed to tag her in the air with an explosive blast.
    After that there came a team with a counter for her mobility. Sydney were at significant risk there.
    She would had died if not for her TP ability.

    She couldnt know if the 3rd team had a counter for that.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    I guess I'm just weird, because I don't see what all this fuss about "drama" and "tension" is about.

    Too much effort goes into trying to gin up artificial tension in many works of fiction, anyway.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Well thats the key word there. Had she survived.
    The first one was still a danged had it managed to tag her in the air with an explosive blast.
    After that there came a team with a counter for her mobility. Sydney were at significant risk there.
    She would had died if not for her TP ability.

    She couldnt know if the 3rd team had a counter for that.
    She destroyed the first one, then shot the second one right in the eye. Not sure if that took it out or not. As for its counter for her mobility, not so much as sydney countered that counter in seconds flat. The risk was, "Will they be able to block my teleportation now that they may have figured out what im doing?" The answer is unknown, because wisely, she decided to get out of there. We cant just assume that they would magically be able to block teleportation, but it was also an unnecessary risk for her to take.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    I guess I'm just weird, because I don't see what all this fuss about "drama" and "tension" is about.

    Too much effort goes into trying to gin up artificial tension in many works of fiction, anyway.
    Honestly I'm not convinced that there is no chance for real tension to enter the story from here on out. Dave may have issues with pacing and story structure but his world building is on point and there are still plenty of ways I could think of to create tension in the plot, and if I could manage it I'm sure Dave could as well.
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  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Still in a flashback, guys.

    There can't really realiably be any tension.
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    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    I guess I'm just weird, because I don't see what all this fuss about "drama" and "tension" is about.

    Too much effort goes into trying to gin up artificial tension in many works of fiction, anyway.
    The problem with no tension is the fight scenes. If there is no tension in a fight scene, then it's just noise and shiny explosions. And basically a waste of time. So the fight scenes become boring and with how long a fight scene can take, well it sucks the fun and interest out of things. Without tension that is.
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  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    The problem with no tension is the fight scenes. If there is no tension in a fight scene, then it's just noise and shiny explosions. And basically a waste of time. So the fight scenes become boring and with how long a fight scene can take, well it sucks the fun and interest out of things. Without tension that is.
    Agreed, take the super brawl for example. While there wasnt much in the way of tension for the general melee, we at least got entertainment out of finally seeing how everyone fights. Then vehemence showed up and demonstrated very visibly that there was going to be no stomping going on against him. Every time it looked like they were winning he reversed it by displaying either that he was playing possum to get more energy, or used a new ability, or just in general was outclassing everyone but maxima, and even wearing her down as well. That was well done, balancing tension with spectacle. But since then, meh. Most fights have been a solid rout. Like this one.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Most fights have been a solid rout. Like this one.
    https://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/...stacle-course/

    I'm seeing Sydney on the routed end of that page.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    https://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/...stacle-course/

    I'm seeing Sydney on the routed end of that page.
    Congrats. Last time comic had tension was... A year ago. And few update aftee that Sydney wipes the floor with those.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    https://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/...stacle-course/

    I'm seeing Sydney on the routed end of that page.
    Most, not all. The fight against the big monsters did have tension. Against Sciona, her minions, and the supernatural council? Not so much. And now the aliens.
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  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Most, not all. The fight against the big monsters did have tension. Against Sciona, her minions, and the supernatural council? Not so much. And now the aliens.
    It had tension for two-three strips and then we were back to Sydney more or less curbstomping the aliens.
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  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Most, not all. The fight against the big monsters did have tension. Against Sciona, her minions, and the supernatural council? Not so much. And now the aliens.
    With Sciona, the tension came from failing to stop her plan in time.
    And with the Super Husk, from failing to stop it drawing blood from the wrong super.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    With Sciona, the tension came from failing to stop her plan in time.
    And with the Super Husk, from failing to stop it drawing blood from the wrong super.
    Which is generally how tension in the high-power super stories works. It's never a question about whether superman can punch Lex Luthor hard enough, because we all know that he can. The tension lies in the civilians trapped in a burning building that need to be rescued, or in the pressures of keeping up a secret identity or whatever. In that way the most recent sequence was actually quite interesting. Yes, Archon kicked a bunch of alien but without much trouble, but in the process they also showed to any interested alien factions that there's some really interesting stuff on earth, and not all of those aliens can be dealt with by punching them really hard.
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  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    And Sydney herps the derp again.

    Or more accurately, it seems, Dave does, because the pacing is so bad he completely forgot what he was doing earlier and didn't bother to check (or fix it when he did check, same deal).
    Last edited by Rogar Demonblud; 2019-09-05 at 11:55 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    And Sydney herps the derp again.

    Or more accurately, it seems, Dave does, because the pacing is so bad he completely forgot what he was doing earlier and didn't bother to check (or fix it when he did check, same deal).
    You know, I prefer this as canon for one reason;

    1. It implies that Sydney is actually just joking most of the time. She's got a persona of being a flaky comedic character, but it's not 100% true. She plays it up for humor, but she can also get serious when the time calls for it. Sure, it's somewhat true, she is extremely ADD, is clumsy, and a gigantic nerd on top of it, but she leans into those traits for a laugh which is always an interesting personality trait to me.
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  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Another interesting tidbit is maximas extra attention to sydney is being noticed. Makes you wonder if it will cause any trouble. Peggy strikes me as fairly chill and unlikely to care unless something absurd happens, but there could be issues with favoritism claims. And its not like it would be hard to prove. She gets an awful lot of extra consideration for a new recruit.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
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    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    She's also absurdly high maintenance and needs direct supervision to make sure she completes the most basic tasks. And besides, one of the core tenets of grunt life is that it's a bad thing to be noticed by any officer ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Another interesting tidbit is maximas extra attention to sydney is being noticed. Makes you wonder if it will cause any trouble. Peggy strikes me as fairly chill and unlikely to care unless something absurd happens, but there could be issues with favoritism claims. And its not like it would be hard to prove. She gets an awful lot of extra consideration for a new recruit.
    She needs extra help to "catch up" -- she has zero background that would prep her for police or military work, has focus issues etc to work on, and she has one of the most complex and varied and powerful ability sets without any real training in using them.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    She needs extra help to "catch up" -- she has zero background that would prep her for police or military work, has focus issues etc to work on, and she has one of the most complex and varied and powerful ability sets without any real training in using them.
    And yet she gets taken on secret missions to meet the supernatural factions for no reason other than maxima wanting to do something nice for her, "Yes sydney, the supernatural and aliens are real, dont talk to anyone about it without my direct permission" is how literally any other recruit would have been read into that secret due to their abilities letting them know about it already. And despite the dearth of training goes on active combat missions ALL THE TIME. Yes, I know, her power set is really impressive, but its no excuse to taking someone with a weeks training under their belt into active combat areas just because it turns out they have a really nice gun. She also gets cut ALL of the slack. She burst into a multinational meeting between archon, the president of america, canadas prime minister and the president of mexico and, afaik, didnt even have to do pushups. Maxima has clearly all but adopted sydney going by how she treats her.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    You realize this is a comedy strip first... "rule of cool" and cheesecake/beefcake somewhere in the middle... and a "drama" strip a distant and minuscule last, yes?
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2019-09-05 at 03:12 PM.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    She's also absurdly high maintenance and needs direct supervision to make sure she completes the most basic tasks. And besides, one of the core tenets of grunt life is that it's a bad thing to be noticed by any officer ever.
    Its also important to remember, that she is -not- a grunt.
    A grunt is something expendable, easily replaceable, and grateful for the employment you offer.
    Sydney is one of a kind, and litterally priceless.

    Whenever Sydney acts like a moron, we should ask "would a battleship or a stealth bomber require less maintenance and supervision?"
    And since the answer will always be yes, then the reply ends up as "worth the deal twice over".
    If Sydney required constant, 24/7 supervision from Peggy or someone equally responsible it would still be worth it.
    I do hate to say it, but she is that valuable.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Whenever Sydney acts like a moron, we should ask "would a battleship or a stealth bomber require less maintenance and supervision?"
    And since the answer will always be yes, then the reply ends up as "worth the deal twice over".
    The answer is no. Bombers and battleships need way more maintenance.

    But you would probably want to make her do push ups when she does stuff like burst into a meeting. Or maybe whoever forgot to lock the door. Wait..... Make the guy who forgot to lock the door do pushups! Although I suppose in Sydney's case it probably wouldn't be push ups, but lifting cars with the molestorb for xp or something. Possibly make her do laps around the planet.
    Last edited by Lamech; 2019-09-05 at 09:32 PM.
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    Spytrap III, Ultimate Kaos II, Monty Python, Twin Village, Invasion of the Zombies: Outbreak, Vampires III

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow
    I think Lamech will make a great Sephiroth.
    A new New York IC OOC

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