The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Super powers are too easy. You make her do extra PT because she needs the conditioning as much as the discipline.

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    And yet she gets taken on secret missions to meet the supernatural factions for no reason other than maxima wanting to do something nice for her, "Yes sydney, the supernatural and aliens are real, dont talk to anyone about it without my direct permission" is how literally any other recruit would have been read into that secret due to their abilities letting them know about it already. And despite the dearth of training goes on active combat missions ALL THE TIME. Yes, I know, her power set is really impressive, but its no excuse to taking someone with a weeks training under their belt into active combat areas just because it turns out they have a really nice gun. She also gets cut ALL of the slack. She burst into a multinational meeting between archon, the president of america, canadas prime minister and the president of mexico and, afaik, didnt even have to do pushups. Maxima has clearly all but adopted sydney going by how she treats her.
    In-universe, the reason she got introduced to everything in detail, is because if she were just told "yes it's real no you can't ask questions", her personality would not let it stand. She has permanent access to a Veil-breaching vision mode, so the only way to avoid her causing a commotion over something trivial, is to saturate her curiosity and properly brief her on the situation. She got into the meeting with the Council because one was already scheduled, and it was easier than going over everything in theoretical terms with her ADHD-brain. She got into the secret Vault mission for basically political reasons, as Maxima wasn't sure she wouldn't need Council assistance to get there, and didn't want to show possible weakness. The rest kind of snowballed from there.

    And taking her on combat missions is possibly the least problematic point. Nominally, she'd never be at any risk - her shield is nigh impervious to sub-city-busting attacks, and she can observe things easily with the Lightbee. Frankly, it's one of the best ways for her to earn actual experience. The one time she was in danger, was because her upgrades came unlabeled and she activated an unexpected power at an inopportune time.

    Do agree about the slack though.
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  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    I think its important to remember that while Sydney is technically a soldier, of sorts, she and the entire team are not actually intended to be going out and fighting wars or punching terrorists or otherwise being Superman. Theyre post-earthquake response, or rescuing hikers stranded on some mountain somewhere, or putting out the California Wildfires for the umpteenth time. She doesn't get treated like a regular soldier because she isn't intended to do the things a regular soldier does. The fact that she got caught up in a couple super fights was (intended to be) extremely anomalous.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    The answer is no. Bombers and battleships need way more maintenance.
    Fair point. Messed up a double negative there.

    I think its important to remember that while Sydney is technically a soldier, of sorts, she and the entire team are not actually intended to be going out and fighting wars or punching terrorists or otherwise being Superman. Theyre post-earthquake response, or rescuing hikers stranded on some mountain somewhere, or putting out the California Wildfires for the umpteenth time. She doesn't get treated like a regular soldier because she isn't intended to do the things a regular soldier does. The fact that she got caught up in a couple super fights was (intended to be) extremely anomalous.
    Hmm.. i think the closest comparison to what she is being trained to be, is a cross between a Fireman and a Swat member.
    Because its nice enough having heroes around to handle the aftermaths of an earthquake.
    But you really want them when a super powered terrorist is tearing up a bridge.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  5. - Top - End - #215
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Fair point. Messed up a double negative there.



    Hmm.. i think the closest comparison to what she is being trained to be, is a cross between a Fireman and a Swat member.
    Because its nice enough having heroes around to handle the aftermaths of an earthquake.
    But you really want them when a super powered terrorist is tearing up a bridge.
    This. While disaster response was always a big part of the draw being used, they were very explicit in talking about dealing with super threats as well. Like using super guns on the giant robot, or talking about how they are more cost effective than rail mounted coil guns or whatever that mayor was flipping out over way back at the first press conference. And its a large part of why they had to form a new branch to put them under the auspices of. Because the scenarios they are meant to handle are so varied and vast that no existing setup encapsulates it. For example, national guard is very much so disaster recovery, and local threat response (on sufficient scale) However, they cant operate outside their borders like archon might be forced to do if spetsnaz employs their super soldier to create whirlpools at all beaches during spring break. Or if someone like sciona flees america they need the authority to GO AFTER HER because she is a present and clear threat that needs to be stopped.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    ...
    But you really want them when a super powered terrorist is tearing up a bridge.
    Yup, those were terrorists I tell ye.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Of course, as such if Sciona goes outside of America, then there isnt any branch of Archon who does have the authority to go after her.
    Not i guess, other than "Might makes right". But not even thats certain.

    Yup, those were terrorists I tell ye.
    Its all point of view. For some, like the foreign supers Max have killed, she is a terrorist.
    Of course in this case she were fixing something already broken.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Its all point of view. For some, like the foreign supers Max have killed, she is a terrorist.
    Of course in this case she were fixing something already broken.
    Maybe I should have linked the previous pages as well. Basically, it was Max's shot that broke the bridge and Sciona just blocked it without much control of where it will bounce off.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Well, that last panel ought to complicate things a lot.

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Well, I guess the Fel ship shields can stand up to piddly Earth grade nukes. A petajoule is about a quarter of a megaton of TnTs. Focusing hundreds of them into a square meter is beyond piddly Earth weaponry.

    Although I guess I do need to upscale my estimates of Maxima's firepower.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    The Tsar Bomba was 240 Peta joule. I wonder whether he really wanted to make her a one shot city destroyer or just picked a big number.

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    This isnt as such news, i have repeatedly mentioned, that according to the authors blog,
    then Max is able to boost 1 attribute to high end marvel comic level.
    That means mimicing one of Hulk/Thor/Silver Surfers feats.
    And so i think thats about right.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Well, that last panel ought to complicate things a lot.
    Oh yes. I kind of expect the same problem Waco kid had - being that extrordinary will attract the wrong kind of attention.

    Also some nice reference: there is the detector from Ghostbusters and the other one also looks kind of familiar, but I cannot find it frankly.

    Also, also: I love the grin Harem has in panel 2.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Is Harem being a fangirl of her own team? What's interesting is that not only does no one know why people are supers, they can't even figure out how their powers work even with super advanced tech.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    The last two panels are a reference to the Mycon race from Star Control 2. Great game, one of my favorite classics.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Well, that last panel ought to complicate things a lot.
    Not necessarily?
    I mean there were Aliens on the Council, so the big-wigs might already know.

    The official version might be that the Fel spontaneously self-combusted.
    Because of a gas leak on Vega.
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  17. - Top - End - #227
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrinar View Post
    The Tsar Bomba was 240 Peta joule. I wonder whether he really wanted to make her a one shot city destroyer or just picked a big number.
    The issue is anything less than a Tsar Bomb, city buster etc. and it becomes silly that such a ship could survive a broadside from another ship in space.

    Quote Originally Posted by handofshadows
    Is Harem being a fangirl of her own team? What's interesting is that not only does no one know why people are supers, they can't even figure out how their powers work even with super advanced tech.
    Max isn't a super. She's infected with SpaceFlu.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamech View Post
    The issue is anything less than a Tsar Bomb, city buster etc. and it becomes silly that such a ship could survive a broadside from another ship in space.
    True it is the right strength for overpowering scifi ships that can stand up to scifi weapons. But I tend to dislike characters reaching that kind of powerlevel when they often fight other humans in close range and especially when they do so near the ground in populated areas. It tends to lead to inconsistencies that annoy me a bit.

  19. - Top - End - #229
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Max isn't a super. She's infected with SpaceFlu.
    Max is a unique case even among super.
    Most likely she is a regular super that has somehow been argumented by an artifact from the same guys who made Sydney's orbs.

    True it is the right strength for overpowering scifi ships that can stand up to scifi weapons. But I tend to dislike characters reaching that kind of powerlevel when they often fight other humans in close range and especially when they do so near the ground in populated areas. It tends to lead to inconsistencies that annoy me a bit.
    There isnt really any inconsistency there. Yes its a move Max has available to her.
    No its not relevant in most cases, since using it turns her about as slow and squishy as a regular human.
    In most cases thats a death sentence when there are unknow enemy supers around. And your target #1.
    As such, this was about the only situation where that move was useable.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Max is a unique case even among super.
    There isnt really any inconsistency there. Yes its a move Max has available to her.
    No its not relevant in most cases, since using it turns her about as slow and squishy as a regular human.
    In most cases thats a death sentence when there are unknow enemy supers around. And your target #1.
    As such, this was about the only situation where that move was useable.
    The same way when she went all defence against Vehemence, she could not do anything else except just surviving. On the other hand it also shows just how crazy powerful he got back then.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    The same way when she went all defence against Vehemence, she could not do anything else except just surviving. On the other hand it also shows just how crazy powerful he got back then.
    Yeah exactly. In this case she just clearly did more than just divert all free "power" to her energy blast.
    She likely also drew on her baseline super strenght/speed/toughness to overcharge her energy blast ability.
    A large part of Max's power really is her flexibility, and ability to jump from glass canon, to speedster, flying brick or artilery.

    So when Vehemence hits Max with a continious attack it does a lot to lock down her ability to fight back.
    Even so, yeah it is insanely impressive from Vehemence, since it shows the sum of his power had grown to surpass Max.
    And likely why they are holding him in reserve for something like an alien invasion.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Why assume that "space battle broadside" = "Tsar bomba, focused"?

    Is there some math I missed?
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Why assume that "space battle broadside" = "Tsar bomba, focused"?

    Is there some math I missed?
    It was more that Maxima's blast (for which we do have a precise number) delivered energy comparable with Tsar bomba just in a very narrow beam.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Max is a unique case even among super.
    Most likely she is a regular super that has somehow been argumented by an artifact from the same guys who made Sydney's orbs.



    There isnt really any inconsistency there. Yes its a move Max has available to her.
    No its not relevant in most cases, since using it turns her about as slow and squishy as a regular human.
    In most cases thats a death sentence when there are unknow enemy supers around. And your target #1.
    As such, this was about the only situation where that move was useable.
    I didn't actually say there was an inconsistency here, though I feel comfortable declaring that either everything beside blasting is really power inefficient or the vehemence fight should have caused far more collateral damage to make her struggle.

    And it is quite relevant. It creates reasonable expectations about how high she can go with her normal blasts, look at her power redistribution: I find it reasonable to expect that the scaling in her attributes is somewhat similar. if her tankiest dump everything in armor form is 20 times tankier than her base but her dump everything into blasting blast is 2000 times more energetic I will consider it a bit weird.

    If we assume the factors are similar though that suggest either that vehemence electricity was an enormous damage increase, that she by dumping everything into armor could have kept shrugging him off for quite a while or that the multis aren't insanely high. If they aren't insanely high, well we now know that if she really tries she she can output hundreds of PT. A single PT is 239 KT and as explosion destroys all buildings in a 1.5km radius and does plenty damage outside (at 38 km it still shatters windows). 0.1PJ still flatten buildings in a .44 mile radius. 0.1 is less than a 1/1000 of this blast, I expect she should be able to do at least that much normally.

    Yes normally she holds back on blasts so they can be as weak as necessary. The inconsistencies for high powered characters usually come either when a serious enemy appears and the collateral damage is much too low for for the level of power both can throw around, when something is harder for them than it should be considering their top power, or when taking someone non serious down takes them much longer than it should at their power level (fine if the enemy isn't causing damage to others during that time, not fine otherwise).

    It also changes threat levels or should change them. Like Sciona barely deflected an attack that we then saw explode, over the bridge, from the effects it was probably far less than a KT. We knew that was a weak attack for Maxima now we know just how weak. Someone said the threat with Sciona was her finishing her ritual. Say there was actually an army of her species on the other side. Assuming Sciona wasn't a total weakling compared to the rest of her species a full power blast of Maxima would have killed any army that could have come through and collapsed the mountain on top of the portal.

    And stuff like that. Lack of reasonable collateral damage tends to be the most common.

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    Im.. finding this post kinda hard to follow in what point it want to deliver
    I mean, yes energy blasts are likely the most energy efficient power Max have, when we look at her focused beam.
    And yes we already saw in the desert that Max have some really nasty energy blasts, that she likely rarely dials up because of the collatoral damage.
    She is this worlds closest analog to Superman, even if she is still far, far weaker.

    But at the same, yes the lightning Vehemence produced was immensely destructive?
    I believe an author comment noted that had Sydney been hit then she would have been reduced to ash.
    The treat Vehemence posed was that while Max might be able to tank him for a long time, then it would not have helped,
    because he kept growing stronger.

    And i guess that Max could likely destroy an entire invasion army in a single charged blast.
    The problem there is that trying to would leave her vulnerable to a sniper or a missile.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Or the blastwave of her own shot.

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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Or the blastwave of her own shot.
    That would be a tad embarrassing, yes.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    I could see her tossing an arcing shot over the attacking army multiple ranks back as the blast wave stops short of reaching her but engulfs the enemy army. She seems to really have a VERY precise knowledge of her abilities, their limits, and how to most effectively use them. probably from being in the military for the last couple decades. (Im assuming as I have no idea what sort of time it takes to hit lt cmndr normally, let alone when you are a living weapon of mass destruction the military would REALLY like to have the loyalty of.) Or she might just beam spam and carve the army up like a christmas turkey with a single sweep as it chops through an entire armored division and the infantry companies behind them.

    Now my thought is, the impact force on the shield thing. Is it sort of like the difference between swinging a giant novelty mallet into a target like harlequinn versus using a war hammer spike in that the same force has a GREATLY magnified psi due to the concentration of surface area? Im just wondering why a narrow beam would be so much more devastating than a wider one with the same number of petajoules. So im guessing that concentrating it into a narrow beam also magnifies the power of the blast.
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Now my thought is, the impact force on the shield thing. Is it sort of like the difference between swinging a giant novelty mallet into a target like harlequinn versus using a war hammer spike in that the same force has a GREATLY magnified psi due to the concentration of surface area? Im just wondering why a narrow beam would be so much more devastating than a wider one with the same number of petajoules. So im guessing that concentrating it into a narrow beam also magnifies the power of the blast.
    Yes, stilleto heals are much more dangerous, just because women are heavier than men.

    There are two things with Max, she has a beam, but she also has some sort of projectile, beams don't go "bang".
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    Default Re: Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Why assume that "space battle broadside" = "Tsar bomba, focused"?

    Is there some math I missed?
    I'm not really assuming the focus part. I am assuming, that space-faring FTL aliens have weapons comparable with Earth. Also Max was MORE effective than a space battle broadside, since she beat the ship.

    I do agree with Ibrinar that having characters that throw around that sort of power tends to result in weirdness though. For example, does that mean V was at nuclear weapon grade power? He didn't really show it though. Which is a weird. (Well other than the create pants thing, if we want to nitpick. Maybe. It is also possible he synthesized it from existing matter.)

    One more reason to give everything an AT Field.
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