OOTS #1175 - The Discussion Thread

[RatElemental]

Can I just ask why we're calling the High Priest of Hel the frontarchist instead of her actual title?

[Fyraltari]

Can I just ask why we're calling the High Priest of Hel the frontarchist instead of her actual title?

Because nicknames are fun and because her position was so purely honorific that Hel herself forgot about it and we got into the habit.

[Ruck]

Because some people liked him and want him back in the story?

Yes, I was hoping there was a reason beyond that. As per the rest of your post, I agree-- it is possible but seems very unlikely to me.

[Fyraltari]

Yes, I was hoping there was a reason beyond that. As per the rest of your post, I agree-- it is possible but seems very unlikely to me.

I see no place for Tarquin now, but I don't think his part is done just now. As others have pointed out the Vector Legion ought to worry about the Rift after Miron's and Laurin's close call bt they don't know where the last Gate is and the IFCC needs new pawns now that the Linear Guild is destroyed. This would also help resolve this bit of foreshadowing.

The biggest counter to this reasonniing is that Elan's victory against Tarquin is as thematically complete as it can get but that can be sresolved by having Tarquin never actually getting face-to-face with Elan again and generally getting bullied into compliance by the rest of his group.

[Schroeswald]

I see no place for Tarquin now, but I don't think his part is done just now. As others have pointed out the Vector Legion ought to worry about the Rift after Miron's and Laurin's close call bt they don't know where the last Gate is and the IFCC needs new pawns now that the Linear Guild is destroyed. This would also help resolve this bit of foreshadowing.

The biggest counter to this reasonniing is that Elan's victory against Tarquin is as thematically complete as it can get but that can be sresolved by having Tarquin never actually getting face-to-face with Elan again and generally getting bullied into compliance by the rest of his group.

I think that no matter what Tarquin's arc and Blood Runs in the Family will be worse if he (and only him, the rest of the Legion can return or not and not impact the quality of BRitF) returns, though OoTS could be improved with a return (depending on what Rich would do with him in this unlikely scenario), the question would be if it the hurt of 936 not being his final appearance is outweighed by whatever else happened.

[Emanick]

Nope, that's absurd.

If this was the case, there would be no need for

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Shojo to emphasize the word "twice" nor will this be much of a bonus foreshadowing in the book.

The fact that he makes a big deal of the word "twice" there means that it's the time we saw (the assassination) and another time we haven't seen yet.

Did you quote me by mistake? Because I agree with you and I'm not sure how what I said contradicts any of this.

[Sir_Norbert]

I think that no matter what Tarquin's arc and Blood Runs in the Family will be worse if he (and only him, the rest of the Legion can return or not and not impact the quality of BRitF) returns

That's the part I don't agree with, though I've heard this opinion stated a few times. Elan won both the physical and intellectual battles, and that's settled and past now. The only way it could be undermined would be for Elan to backtrack on what he learned and go after Tarquin at the expense of fighting Xykon -- and I'm sure we can agree that is absolutely not going to happen!

Tarquin wasn't the main villain, but he isn't nobody either. He might still have a bit part to play in the last book.

[Anitar]

That farty Druid “leakywind”?

No, no, Leakywind is the doctor. The druid is Leakywind's _Staff_.

[SlashDash]

Did you quote me by mistake? Because I agree with you and I'm not sure how what I said contradicts any of this.

Yeah, I was referring to what Roger said. Your quote was a mistake.

I edit that out.

[Schroeswald]

That's the part I don't agree with, though I've heard this opinion stated a few times. Elan won both the physical and intellectual battles, and that's settled and past now. The only way it could be undermined would be for Elan to backtrack on what he learned and go after Tarquin at the expense of fighting Xykon -- and I'm sure we can agree that is absolutely not going to happen!

Tarquin wasn't the main villain, but he isn't nobody either. He might still have a bit part to play in the last book.

The reason I say this, is that Elan isn't the only one who matters to this. Tarquin also needs to stay exactly the same, he still needs to be devoted to his plan, to believe he is the true villain, to believe that Xykon is unimportant, and to believe in what the story is supposed to be, and for him to return in any major way (besides us spending a bunch of time in the Empire of Blood which hurts the main plot) he has to learn something he shouldn't learn. If he leaves his kingdom then his plan isn't the most important thing possible, and then if he is killed it means the story might be more fulfilling for him. It's best for him to not die with "one bad moment", his life and kingdom needs to fall apart for a long time before his death.

[jwhouk]

Yes, I was hoping there was a reason beyond that. As per the rest of your post, I agree-- it is possible but seems very unlikely to me.

I was only suggesting one possible person. Heck, it could be those squishy monsters from all the way back in the early books that come back for revenge.

[Riftwolf]

I was only suggesting one possible person. Heck, it could be those squishy monsters from all the way back in the early books that come back for revenge.

It's been foreshadowed they're currently in Dwarven lands...

[Schroeswald]

I was only suggesting one possible person. Heck, it could be those squishy monsters from all the way back in the early books that come back for revenge.

: The early books?

How dare you not remember their names!

It's been foreshadowed they're currently in Dwarven lands...

DUN Dun dun!

[Cazero]

: The early books?

How dare you not remember their names!

But we've never been told their names !

[Schroeswald]

But we've never been told their names !

Or have we? We know they are Lawful Good Flumphs, so they are clearly named Flurkon and Floy.

[brian 333]

Or have we? We know they are Lawful Good Flumphs, so they are clearly named Flurkon and Floy.

Yes, but which is Redcloak's niece?

[Schroeswald]

Yes, but which is Redcloak's niece?

She is the ghost of Lame Monsters Past.

[Aaron L]

*gasp!*

Hopefully the Dwarves will have things explained to them and understand just what's going on, now.

Hopefully!

[TheNecrocomicon]

Re all of the Tarquin speculation -- I agree he could come back, but his explicit (and rather meta) plot was to make the storyline revolve around himself as the main villain so that he could either live as a conqueror or die as a legend.

For Tarquin's defeat to truly be complete, he needs to die an anticlimactic, throwaway death offscreen, in some ignominious way befitting a minor villain with delusions of grandeur.

The other surviving Linear GuildVector Legion members, however? Nothing stopping them from resurfacing in some way later on, and indeed they probably will have some role to play is my guess.

[Peelee]

For Tarquin's defeat to truly be complete, he needs to die an anticlimactic, throwaway death offscreen

I agree.

in some ignominious way befitting a minor villain with delusions of grandeur.

You're repeating yourself though.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The Giant has indicated interest in doing a prequel book on the Linear Guild/Vector Legion (and I would guess, by extension, building up the Western Continent in general). If that aim still holds, any material related to those characters would likely go there.

[Fyraltari]

The Giant has indicated interest in doing a prequel book on the Linear Guild/Vector Legion (and I would guess, by extension, building up the Western Continent in general). If that aim still holds, any material related to those characters would likely go there.

Has he? I mean, many playgrounders have expressed’interest in reading that but I don’t remember The Giant saying he would make one.

Re all of the Tarquin speculation -- I agree he could come back, but his explicit (and rather meta) plot was to make the storyline revolve around himself as the main villain so that he could either live as a conqueror or die as a legend.

For Tarquin's defeat to truly be complete, he needs to die an anticlimactic, throwaway death offscreen, in some ignominious way befitting a minor villain with delusions of grandeur.

My guesses are, in no particular order.

1) Killed by Amun-Zora, Ian & Co while he rants that they’re just part of a subplot and it ought not to go like this.

2) Killed by Sabine while he rants that she is a minor antagonist and it ought not to go like this.

3) Killed by Xykon (who doesn’t even get his name right) while he rants that he is a minor antagonist and it ought not to go like this.

[Peelee]

Has he?

Sort of. I don't believe the book he's taking about there has been released, and it may never be if he decidee it doesn't interest him any longer.

[Kantaki]

My guesses are, in no particular order.

1) Killed by Amun-Zora, Ian & Co while he rants that they’re just part of a subplot and it ought not to go like this.

2) Killed by Sabine while he rants that she is a minor antagonist and it ought not to go like this.

3) Killed by Xykon (who doesn’t even get his name right) while he rants that he is a minor antagonist and it ought not to go like this.

Nah. The most fitting death for Tarquin would be dying of old age.
Powerless and forgotten.

[Schroeswald]

Has he? I mean, many playgrounders have expressed’interest in reading that but I don’t remember The Giant saying he would make one.


My guesses are, in no particular order.

1) Killed by Amun-Zora, Ian & Co while he rants that they’re just part of a subplot and it ought not to go like this.

2) Killed by Sabine while he rants that she is a minor antagonist and it ought not to go like this.

3) Killed by Xykon (who doesn’t even get his name right) while he rants that he is a minor antagonist and it ought not to go like this.

My personal guess is number 1, but its done slowly by taking apart the empire bit by bit, until its just a city, and then they kill him, after torturing him and breaking him for months (they're Neutral, they can do stuff like that).

[Fyraltari]

(they're Neutral, they can do stuff like that).

Let’s not go there.

[Riftwolf]

Let’s not go there.

They're Neutral, so they can be as Evil as we like. I know of so many games ruined by this notion...

[Schroeswald]

They're Neutral, so they can be as Evil as we like. I know of so many games ruined by this notion...

They're Neutral, so they can do a very Evil thing (I would like to remind everyone that I find torture very very evil, and Tarquin is one of the very few people I'd accept the death penalty for), to a very Evil person, without immediately dropping alignments, V cast familicide, as long as they continue hovering between doing Good things (like overthrowing some brutal military dictators, Neutral things (like stealing from the rich and giving 40% to the people after expenses) and Evil things (like torture), they'll stay that way.

[Squire Doodad]

Nah. The most fitting death for Tarquin would be dying of old age.
Powerless and forgotten.

I'm sorry, who are we talking about dying again? The name seems familiar, but I can't quite recall where I heard it.

[Fyraltari]

I'm sorry, who are we talking about dying again? The name seems familiar, but I can't quite recall where I heard it.

I think that's the last king of Rome, Tarquin the Prideful, a pretty nasty fellow, all things considered.

Or maybe Grand Moff Tarkin, as Star Wars bad guy.