Results 1 to 24 of 24
Thread: How Good is the Brute?
-
2019-08-17, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2019
- Location
- Iceland
- Gender
How Good is the Brute?
I stumbled upon this a few weeks back, and it honestly looks like a subclass that only cares about having the fighter's damage scale as needed. Sorta like "if you only want to play fighter you pick this, and then you won't fall behind in damage". Can this be used as a reliable representation of "ideal damage scaling", since it is not add usefulness via utility?
Q: Is the brute subclass a viable representation of 5e's damage scaling?
-
2019-08-17, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
- Location
- Maine
- Gender
Re: How Good is the Brute?
It's a tad too strong but not by much. The all day 1d6 to all saves is probably the most powerful part of this class. Needs a limit maybe X times a day equal to con modifier.
what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?
All credit to the amazing avatar goes to thoroughlyS
-
2019-08-17, 06:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2019
- Location
- Hearth
Re: How Good is the Brute?
Agreed, it's a tad bit on the more powerful side. 5e's damage scaling sits comfortably in the margin between this scaling and the Monk's Martial Arts Die scaling. MA is a tad slow, Brute's is a tad too strong.
"I may be a Hobgoblin, but the real mythical creature I'm playing is an Ethical Billionaire"
-
2019-08-17, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2018
Re: How Good is the Brute?
Brute is pretty middle of the road compared to EK/Monster Hunter fighters.
The main complaint with the sub seems to be that folks find it to be better-champion IE boring.
-
2019-08-17, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
Re: How Good is the Brute?
Are there people who think Fighter damage scales poorly?
Because their nova, action surge barrages are the highest source of damage output in most of our games at mid to high level.
It gets even worse if they have magic support via haste, or something granting advantage.
In regard to the topic:
Brute is strong.
It’s like an upgraded champion, and the Champion isn’t as bad as in play as most people say it is. It just takes time to build up steam, much like the Fighter class.
The saves thing is kinda balanced since it only applies to the brute, unlike the Paladin aura.
-
2019-08-17, 07:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2019
-
2019-08-18, 04:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: How Good is the Brute?
I find the “upgrade to Champion” philosophy a bit odd, since in my experience the only people who find Champions boring are the ones who don’t play them.
I love playing Champions. I find their simplicity incredibly freeing from a role-playing point of view, and the base class is well designed enough that I never feel like I’m not contributing.
-
2019-08-18, 09:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2018
-
2019-08-18, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
-
2019-08-18, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: How Good is the Brute?
The game appears to be designed around an adventuring day of 3 encounters, short rest, 3 encounters, short rest, 3 encounters, long rest. That's what I aim for at my table but apparently that's not how most people actually run the game; a number of people take short rests after every single encounter. If that's what people consider normal gameplay, then that explains why the Battlemaster seems to be so much more powerful than the Champion, and if the DM is allowing long rests more frequently than expected that creates a benefit for the EK over the champion as well.
-
2019-08-18, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2018
-
2019-08-18, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: How Good is the Brute?
You're correct, but IIRC the exact assumption is "6-8 medium or hard encounters" which doesn't account for easy encounters. Giving the party a way to turn a hard encounter into an easy and a medium encounter by clever tactics, roleplay or skill use is almost always something I try to allow for.
-
2019-08-18, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
Re: How Good is the Brute?
It's just a chore mostly to have so many encounters. It's chore to run them, deisgn them, make them meaningful. After like 5th encounter same they it's pretty much more like "god, again???" then "ow, this is gonna be interesting". I get it shifts balance more towards long rest classes, however imo it's design flow, not DM. I prefer few good, well designed fights per day, then many that are just there to "meet requirement of draining players resources".
I honestly saw only one DM that was running 8 encounters per day sessions, but whole table was munchkins and they were just running pretty much battle-simulator to go all out with their optimized characters.
-
2019-08-18, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: How Good is the Brute?
-
2019-08-19, 11:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: How Good is the Brute?
the brute is a lot of fun to play - I think that the it represents a lot of heroes in folklore pretty well - master of martial combat and able to power through the attacks of wizards and dragons without being a spellcaster itself. I really like the saving throw bonus, it's potent, yes, but I don't feel it throws balance out the window, it's still random and adds an element of tough SOB that you don't see elsewhere.
-
2019-08-19, 11:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: How Good is the Brute?
-
2019-08-19, 11:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
Re: How Good is the Brute?
Well, there are plenty of people that don't want fancy buttons, do want a simple fighter, and disagree that Champion is the right implementation of that. Some simply do not agree that Champion is correctly balanced (the, 'I don't care about your fancy analysis, I've seen how they play at my table, and it doesn't live up to my standards' crowd), where I think maybe it is the gaming group and rest-frequency that is the big problem (although, if it is a problem in your group, it is a problem. Just maybe one where houseruling makes more sense than pushing for a new archetype). There's also the 'that's not a generic simple-fighter archetype, that's a crit-fisher archetype' crowd, who well, are kinda right.
Agreed, Damon_Tor. Mitsu, there are explicit sections of the DMG that actively discuss this potential issue and offer multiple optional rules specifically to address this.
-
2019-08-19, 07:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
Re: How Good is the Brute?
I don't know how this thread became about encounter frequency, but I want to say again that it's more like 4-6 medium to hard encounters per day. 3-7 if you must include the absolute outliers.
-
2019-08-19, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: How Good is the Brute?
-
2019-08-19, 08:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Location
- Charlotte NC
- Gender
Re: How Good is the Brute?
So if the champion is a 'long way from being the worst fighter', I'm curious as to what is considered to be the worst? I was under the impression that it IS considered the worst fighter subclass.
I'm not worried or asking about boring. The brute looks like it is probably more 'boring' than the champion. Flat consistent damage without any crit fishing/gambling addiction 'fun'. I suppose it is important to note that Champion is my favorite fighter, but I'd ditch it in a heartbeat for Brute, even a slightly nerfed version. Maybe a heavily nerfed version. (I hate crit fishing. I hate gambling.)
-
2019-08-19, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
-
2019-08-19, 09:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2019
Re: How Good is the Brute?
Last edited by TyGuy; 2019-08-19 at 09:50 PM.
-
2019-08-19, 10:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
Re: How Good is the Brute?
In 1 fight a day tables, yes samurai is good, but even in long day games samurai is alright. Using fighting spirit alongside action surge lets you start multiple fights in a day with a decent nova (especially when combined with SS or GWM). The temp hp also adds up to make you that little bit more tanky to keep going until the end of the day.
At 7th level you get wisdom saving throw proficiency. That's huge, especially when you Indomitable.
15th level in a lot of parties will simply be like getting extra attack early. Compared to other level 15 features, that's insane.
Basically they start decent, but then every feature afterwards is a decent step forward, which is more then what can be said for a lot of fighter subclass features.Last edited by Frozenstep; 2019-08-19 at 10:13 PM.
-
2019-08-19, 10:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2018