The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #241
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

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    Default Re: By request: Workshopping another Ranger

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    This is the same as double quarry dice, but less fun since you don't get to roll the dice. If you're okay with this, why not just use double quarry dice. Where is all this coming from? Why are you so desperately trying to avoid using my suggestion
    Basically because iím trying to be very careful about both the power floor and ceiling. Currently both appear to be within tolerance compared to other classes, and less than 10 between each other is actually pretty damn good. Funnily enough if you compare what we have now to the UA released over the years I reckons this is a lot more polished for relatively little time invested and I commend everyone for that accomplishment.

    Iím curious though, I might be reading the charts wrong but under the current rules are you applying quarry damage twice on the 2nd round from level 5 onwards?

  2. - Top - End - #242
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: By request: Workshopping another Ranger

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Basically because iím trying to be very careful about both the power floor and ceiling. Currently both appear to be within tolerance compared to other classes, and less than 10 between each other is actually pretty damn good. Funnily enough if you compare what we have now to the UA released over the years I reckons this is a lot more polished for relatively little time invested and I commend everyone for that accomplishment.

    Iím curious though, I might be reading the charts wrong but under the current rules are you applying quarry damage twice on the 2nd round from level 5 onwards?
    Yeah, I understand that concern. This is exactly why I have also marked by red each cell that lands outside the ideal-floor-and-ceiling margin. For example tables 1 and 2, at 3rd level, you can see TWF is marked with either red, yellow or green based on how far it is from the ideal damage curve. Most green is most good, most red is most bad.

    Then you must also account for the first attack against a new target, since Quarry damage is not applied. This is likely to happen a few times each combat, since there's usually more than just one enemy. Quarry 1/turn helps with that a lot, and of course the volley at 10th level. This is why we are comparing our damage to maximum damage averages between multiple classes. We can afford to be in the upper limits of the damage list, since we can't always trigger the Quarry.

    In table 1 It's applied once per attack
    In table 2 it's applied once per turn, but doubled for the Hunter
    In table 3 it's applied once per attack made as a part of the attack action
    In table 4 it's applied once per attack made as a part of the attack action, but doubled for Hunter.
    Last edited by Bjarkmundur; 2019-09-21 at 06:19 PM.

    Spoiler: How to Make Custom Monsters
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    The damage column shows total damage output on hit over an entire round, and is modified based on factors like recharge, AoE etc.

  3. - Top - End - #243
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

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    Default Re: By request: Workshopping another Ranger

    Hmm. As an executive decision i'm going to keep Quarry as is and not change it to once per round or to be reliant on the attack action. I find those too much of a loss of interesting interplay to be worth the change.

    Now that said, the Hunter specifically does need something changed at level 3 because as-is the damage benefit doesn't kick in until quarry damage comes in, either next turn before level 5 or by using a bonus action attack like TWF. That is an unbalancing issue as pointed out.

    So, the Quarry reroll is a fun quality of life benefit but not enough compared to the immediate damage spike BM is capable of. How about we combine the Quarry reroll with the Hunter being able to immediately add Quarry damage to the damage of the attack he marks a target with. This is only a raw increase of damage on turn 1 when it appears to be needed.

    Thoughts? I don't want to just hand out straight extra quarry dice to the Hunter because they can then use it with TWF to come out equal to or in front of the BM without the drawbacks the BM faces. But that's just me.

  4. - Top - End - #244
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: By request: Workshopping another Ranger

    So basically give the Hunter barbarian rage in dice form? It loses the 'study your target, adapt to your enemy' flavor of the Quarry, but it works.

    Warden changes look nice btw. I would never have thought of using 'Ley'. Very well done.
    Last edited by Bjarkmundur; 2019-09-21 at 06:29 PM.

    Spoiler: How to Make Custom Monsters
    Show

    The damage column shows total damage output on hit over an entire round, and is modified based on factors like recharge, AoE etc.

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