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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Thrymm is rising in my estimation as he uses part of his power to restore her (panel 6). I'm reading him now a lot less "fake nice guy" and a lot closer to somebody who's devoted to somebody who's way unbalanced due to chemistry or addiction-type issues.

    LDW, Care-taker Thrymm, what is evil coming to?

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    "Nice guy" behavior isn't about being a friend. It's about pretending to be a friend and fawning over a woman you're only interested in sexually in hopes that you will be rewarded with sex.

    (I imagine any woman could tell you how quickly the "Nice Guy" facade drops when they tell their "Nice Guy" that they're only interested in being friends.)
    Eh, I dunno.
    The way Hel's been treating Thrym he might be a actual nice- and really, really dumb -guy.
    A tad clueless regarding the „you're just a tool for me” thing maybe, but genuinely in love with her.

    Seriously, the more we see him the more Thrym reminds me of a lovesick puppy that doesn't get that it should stay away from the crazy chick that kicks everyone and everything in reach.
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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcotix View Post
    YLoki hasn't been shown to be this incompetent, and he clearly cares about Hel, so what is he getting here?
    What he's getting here is a big lesson in unintended consequences, and how tricks at someone else's expense can have huge reprecussions.

    Hel may be the antagonist here, but it was the bet that put her in this position. What we are seeing, and what Loki is seeing for the first time, is what happens when you literally strip everything away from someone: their power, their dignity, their future, and leave them feeling trapped and impotent. And then, when she comes up with a plan to get out of this cycle before she literally wastes away and improve her station in the process, that gets stripped from her too (not that we should root for her here, of course).

    Take away everything from someone and then take away their hope, too, and this is what you get: someone who is so desperate, so miserable, so disenfranchised, that they will burn the world around them out of spite.

    Crazy thought time: Hel really is a victim here, and is so far gone she will victimize others in turn.

    Crazy thought #2: This may not be too far from how the Dark One felt about his people before ascending. It's heavily implied that they existed as canon fodder for PC's. And now he's in a position to do something about it.
    Last edited by Sky_Schemer; 2019-08-20 at 01:43 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    Well, this page shoots down my speculation that Loki would use this meeting to propose allowing the last vampire to form a temple in this world, although I suppose he could still do so later. On the other hand, the fact that the camera is away from the dwarves gives ample opportunity for Brightstone and Sigdi to explain what's going on to the council off-panel.
    Technically not her last vampire - just the last one that can pull off the hail-mary dwarven vote plan. (She still has a "high priest" standing around in the moot, unable to be attacked, and who will probably be allowed to depart peacefully too.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    We don't know that they were created at the same time. For all we know, Odin, Zeus, Dragon and someone from the Eastern Pantheon were the originals, and they created others (who are their children), who created some children of their own.

    Grey Wolf
    Marduk probably? Thor refers to the whole pantheon as "his clan." He also occupies a pretty prominent position in the mythology they are lifted from I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GM_3826 View Post
    She's right, you know.
    Yes, she certainly has an understandable motive for this grudge. The facts are that she got screwed by the wager and it is hurting her.

    And without that in play, she might not be willing to go to these lengths out of desperation to survive and thrive and give Loki his comeuppance. We aren't seeing Hel on her best day, but on her worst day. Out of all of the worlds that have come before now, this is one where Hel is at her worst, and for a pretty understandable reason.

    And she is not in a place where I think she can come back from it. She's determined to doom this world and destroy whoever she has to in order to get what she wants.

    A cornered goddess fighting with desperation who is already a goddess of death is not likely to care about the consequences of her actions, unless they serve her interest. And right now, she's willing to reset the scores for every god all the way to zero just so she doesn't lose.

    An understandable motive for destroying the world and dooming the souls within it makes for a compelling villain.

    Hel is not evil for the lolz or for teh evulz, she's evil because she's trying to not waste away, and she's been tricked into this position, and will settle the score or be destroyed trying.

    There's little negotiating with that kind of extremism. And it makes her as dangerous as she could possibly be. And there's a part of her that's right.

    It's the perfect toxic soup. I wonder if Hel could have been even a bit more relatable on a "good day". In other words, before this wager.

    Akin to Hades, a god of the underworld and of the dead (and the dishonored dead), a necessary god in the grand scheme of things but not maliciously evil (outside of the Hercules cartoon, that is).

    If the heroes succeed in this story, and there is some kind of grand compromise that contains the snarl forever, I think Hel still loses because of that damned wager.

    Unless the Gods are willing to undo this wager, Hel cannot be turned from her evil motivations and seems to be doomed.

    Its her or the rest of the world, unless the author pulls a rabbit out of his hat.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by happycrow View Post
    Thrymm is rising in my estimation as he uses part of his power to restore her (panel 6). I'm reading him now a lot less "fake nice guy" and a lot closer to somebody who's devoted to somebody who's way unbalanced due to chemistry or addiction-type issues.

    LDW, Care-taker Thrymm, what is evil coming to?
    It looked to me like she was able to recover, it looked more like he was just putting his hand on her shoulder.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    I dunno. She's still his daughter. He may be thinking once she starts eating right and getting her head back in the right space she'll calm down and get over the ichor-feud.
    I agree. Hel only threatened his worshippers, not him directly. She plans to hurt him, not kill him. *edit she did say die...I got caught up in my sympathy for Hel /*edit

    Also, the wager was on the creation of this world. To change the rules, they'd have to make a new world.

    It makes sense that Hel was surprised Thor informed the dwarves, because gods aren't supposed to directly intervene, and that sounds like a big technicality in Thor's favor.
    Last edited by Anansiil; 2019-08-20 at 05:08 PM. Reason: Misread

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    If it's true that Hel's unbalanced soul diet would preclude her surviving to see the next world begin, then that implies her plan could never have worked to begin with. Don't know how to feel about that, or how it can't be true if the same is likely true of the Dark One.

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I’m not even sure how Hel could be the child of Loki, everyone was created at the same time.
    Everyone in the North believing she is making her that? It worked for Thor's hair and Odin's sanity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    I think her appellation would be Lokisdottir, wouldn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by hroşila View Post
    Lokadóttir. Loki is a weak noun, so the genitive is Loka (see Lokasenna).
    If we're being strict, shouldn't it be [mother]dóttir?
    Quote Originally Posted by hroşila View Post
    I find it interesting that Hel may be suggesting that the world being undone by the Snarl (rather than safely demolished by the gods) is historically the most frequent outcome by far, and this world's expected fate too.
    I'm guessing Loki is being optimistict when he states they can pull the plug after the last Gate fall, if that was the case (or as probable as he implies) there would be no need for the current Moot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    As opposed to the happy, well-adjusted family you'd expect from being raised by, and swindled by, Loki.
    No, that's about what I expected, but that's still sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    Not really?
    He's a classic Nice Guy* and should've quit several pages ago (possibly after some Real Talk with Thor), but persists because he's Nice*and surely she'll see that one day**!
    *who expects shows of false sympathy and fawning to win over the girl because that's what every rom-com and love song tells him will work
    As for Hels little rant, it's very much in the 'I hate you forever!' category of teenage arguments, and Lokis probably a little stunned that she blames him, but also how impotent her threats are seeing as she might not survive to the next world (she's getting worn out from being angry now, never mind about after a fewer centuries without worship)
    **because putting someone else in charge of your own happiness is healthy. Unfortunately I can't mark that sentence as both white and blue. But consider it an Azorius statement
    I don't know that last line was the first time he wasn't broadcasting his niceness, I think he is (this one time at the very least) genuine here. Seeing people getting too worked up to stand tends to trigger that kind of reaction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcotix View Post
    Yeah wow, seems like none of the gods really though this through. The big missing piece of the puzzle, as I see it, is what Loki is getting / planned to get out of it.

    The best motive I've seen so far is "Teaching Hel a Lesson" combined with general incompetence/ unconcern.

    Loki hasn't been shown to be this incompetent, and he clearly cares about Hel, so what is he getting here?
    Whatever his plan was he didn't plan for a purple-essenced god to arise. That probably shuffled his goals around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcotix View Post
    Anyway, I wonder if a certain Epic Lich sorceror can/would sweep Hel and take her godhood?
    No-one worships or even likes Xykon and no god would sponsor him, so big fat no here.
    Quote Originally Posted by antipodeF View Post
    I never stopped to consider that Hel is basically a victim in all of this. She's over there dying from lack of Worship in a world that will only make her weaker and weaker. Of COURSE she wants to see it end! It's the only way she'll ever be healthy again!
    I just realize a thing: for mortals, death is a fact of life. We don't like to think about it but deep down we all know that everyone we know, and us ourselves, will die someday.

    But not immortals. Hel and the rest have existed since the beginning (probably) and the one thing that actually killed some of them is more-or-less caged (though there are still scared ****less of it eons later) and while it is possible for gods to starve according to Thor it seems to be only a problem for very recently (cosmically-speaking) ascended mortals.

    The idea of dying would be completely alien to Hel which would make it all the more terrifying. And it would also explain why Loki may not have foreseen the possibility of Hel withering away: the very idea of Hel not being alive (so to speak) would be inconceivable

    Quote Originally Posted by antipodeF View Post
    I hope there's something they can do for her... Maybe agree to see the wager end early? If all parties agree, then I can't see why they couldn't do that. Unless they signed a Signamancy contract with a "no backsies" clause. (Yes, wrong comic, I know. : P )
    Both Hel and Thor are unhappy with the state of things and have been for a long time. If they could just back out they would have. I'm guessing the Bet is baked into the fabric of this world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    No, the agreement that allows her to have temples and priests of her own, protected from adventurers randomly killing them due to them being undead would obviously be contingent on her never claiming a single other soul for dishonorable death. Give all of them a free pass to go to where they should.
    I'm not sure that's workable. While Clerics would certainly obey orders to let Hel's clergy in peace, most adventurers aren't Clerics and the Gods aren't really important to most folk if we assume Roy's case to be the usual one. Such an agreement would also give Hel's clergy free rein to murder and destroy which most people (and gods) would object to.
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  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Anansiil View Post
    I agree. Hel only threatened his worshippers, not him directly. She plans to hurt him, not kill him.

    Also, the wager was on the creation of this world. To change the rules, they'd have to make a new world.

    It makes sense that Hel was surprised Thor informed the dwarves, because gods aren't supposed to directly intervene, and that sounds like a big technicality in Thor's favor.
    “You will waste away and DIE!” is a pretty good indicator that she wants him dead.

    I disagree, if Strip 1 is any indication they can change the rules, and what else would having somewhat frequent Godsmoots (one dude who doesn’t seem all that old has come a few times to learn to bring snacks for Dvalin, especially considering he can’t always be called as a tie-breaking) do?

  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Presumably there are perks in life to be a Loki worshiper.
    I realized that I am crossing editions with this answer, but in 5e there is a Trickery Domain where one gets class features and domain spells for being a worshipper of Trickster deities ... such as Loki. (I suspect that there's a 3.5 analog but I can't get to SRD at the moment).

    EDIT: Oh, Trickery is a 3.5e domain. NVM. Woot, Time Stop as a level 9 spell. Nice.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I'm not sure that's workable. While Clerics would certainly obey orders to let Hel's clergy in peace, most adventurers aren't Clerics and the Gods aren't really important to most folk if we assume Roy's case to be the usual one. Such an agreement would also give Hel's clergy free rein to murder and destroy which most people (and gods) would object to.
    So you are suggesting that evil clerics are routinely shanked in cities by adventuring parties? Because the one(s) in Greysky seemed to be perfectly fine. So there must be something that protects those clerics from adventurers. And the same for good clerics from evil adventuring parties.

    Such agreement would also not give anyone free rein to murder, anymore than it gives anyone else in any city free rein to murder. The agreement is: you don't claim any souls, and we write into law that destroying your vampire priests is murder.

    It doesn't give those vampires carte blanche to murder, nor does it give a pass to adventurers that do the same (unlike now, where adventurers do get a pass when they murder vampires because they are vampires).

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I disagree, if Strip 1 is any indication they can change the rules
    We don't know thatw as their doing. If they could control the rules of the universe they'd make it so they are not dependent on mortal worship to survive. And wish the Snarl out of existence. These gods are clearly not omnipotent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    and what else would having somewhat frequent Godsmoots (one dude who doesn’t seem all that old has come a few times to learn to bring snacks for Dvalin, especially considering he can’t always be called as a tie-breaking) do?
    The same things political assemblies all over the world do: honestly, not much.

    But really, probably mostly resolve disputes between them.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    So you are suggesting that evil clerics are routinely shanked in cities by adventuring parties? Because the one(s) in Greysky seemed to be perfectly fine. So there must be something that protects those clerics from adventurers. And the same for good clerics from evil adventuring parties.
    My guess is firepower. Which Hel's church sorely lacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Such agreement would also not give anyone free rein to murder, anymore than it gives anyone else in any city free rein to murder. The agreement is: you don't claim any souls, and we write into law that destroying your vampire priests is murder.
    Since when do the gods write mortal laws?
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-08-20 at 02:37 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Possibly it's sad-dad that his kid would hate him THIS much.
    You mean after he tricked her into malnourishment over pretty much nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Sharper than a serpant's tooth is the tongue of an ungrateful child. On the other hand, CSN suggests teach your children well.

    Loki has, by tricking his daughter, set up a bit of bad blood between them (though perhaps with an intent to teach her a lesson?) so he is reaping from the crop that he had sown.
    Yep. Even sharper is the tongue of a child that is exactly as grateful as they should be, as Loki is learning here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    We don't know thatw as their doing. If they could control the rules of the universe they'd make it so they are not dependent on mortal worship to survive. And wish the Snarl out of existence. These gods are clearly not omnipotent.

    The same things political assemblies all over the world do: honestly, not much.

    But really, probably mostly resolve disputes between them.

    EDIT:

    My guess is firepower. Which Hel's church sorely lacks.


    Since when do the gods write mortal laws?
    Presumably they can change the rules of a world, make people "self-aware", and the mechanics have clearly changed several times in the past decades, and since presumably much of these mechanics were created by the gods, it makes sense that they could change it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    My guess is firepower. Which Hel's church sorely lacks.
    So the Church of Hel gets protected by other churches on their gods' commands until Hel's Church can stand on its own two undead feet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Since when do the gods write mortal laws?
    Since they can tell dwarves "write these laws and you won't have to fear Hel's gauntlet anymore". And can have their clerics everywhere else lobby for that elsewhere. Clerics tend to be powerful members of communities with a lot of political pull. And even non-clerics can be devoted followers of gods willing to listen to the gods' suggestions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    So you are suggesting that evil clerics are routinely shanked in cities by adventuring parties? Because the one(s) in Greysky seemed to be perfectly fine. So there must be something that protects those clerics from adventurers. And the same for good clerics from evil adventuring parties.

    Such agreement would also not give anyone free rein to murder, anymore than it gives anyone else in any city free rein to murder. The agreement is: you don't claim any souls, and we write into law that destroying your vampire priests is murder.

    It doesn't give those vampires carte blanche to murder, nor does it give a pass to adventurers that do the same (unlike now, where adventurers do get a pass when they murder vampires because they are vampires).

    Grey Wolf
    Even in the normal tabletop D & D is it normal for adventuring parties to slaughter priests? I did with one character I had, but he was chaotic evil, and his main goal in life was to get under the party leader's (A paladin) skin

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    I suspect nothing of this will be of great consequence. My prediction for the ending of OoTS is the snarl world, free of the control of gods, becomes the next and final world.

    I would however love to see another strip with the gods before the end of the book, hopefully a Loki-Thor conversation. It's surprising how those two are able to cooperate when needed.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    Eh, I dunno.
    The way Hel's been treating Thrym he might be a actual nice- and really, really dumb -guy.
    A tad clueless regarding the „you're just a tool for me” thing maybe, but genuinely in love with her.

    Seriously, the more we see him the more Thrym reminds me of a lovesick puppy that doesn't get that it should stay away from the crazy chick that kicks everyone and everything in reach.
    Maybe he likes the verbal abuse.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    So the Church of Hel gets protected by other churches on their gods' commands until Hel's Church can stand on its own two undead feet.



    Since they can tell dwarves "write these laws and you won't have to fear Hel's gauntlet anymore". And can have their clerics everywhere else lobby for that elsewhere. Clerics tend to be powerful members of communities with a lot of political pull. And even non-clerics can be devoted followers of gods willing to listen to the gods' suggestions.

    Grey Wolf
    Thor can’t even get his own clergy to accept that trees aren’t evil, so I am not confident in believing that the gods could get their followers to not only accept undead priests of an evil deity but to cover their asses while they recruit which would necessarily involve making some more undead (which in both cases I know of of undead that can serve as her Clerics (wights and vampires*) means trapping people’s souls).

    *I call dibs on that name for a metal band, by the way.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    I don't think Thor ever told the dwarves to write any laws or do anything in particular, I think he simply told them about the bet and dwarven society developed in a certain way as a result, until some aspects of it were codified into law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    If we're being strict, shouldn't it be [mother]dóttir?
    Nah, women used the name of their father too, as they still do in Iceland. Matronymics did and do happen, but they're not the norm.
    Last edited by hroşila; 2019-08-20 at 03:16 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Hel's little outburst was genuinely terrifying, but the aftermath was more tragic than anything. The irony is that if it weren't for well-known gods directly connected to her like Loki, she probably wouldn't survive to the making of the new world as she is.

    I'm still a little iffy about why Loki arranged for the bet at all. I'm sure we'll get an explanation eventually, but as it stands, it feels like everyone gets a raw deal. The Dwarves, Hel, heck, even the other gods of the pantheon have to go out of their way to argue with a malnourished death goddess prone to tantrums just to get their Dwarven followers' souls to their rightful domains.

    I can't even argue that this was Loki being myth-classic Loki and doing it for the laughs, because:
    Where's the punchline?

    ...Also, poor Thrym. He's doing his best to be as supportive as possible. I'm pretty sure he's sincere about all this and it's just another one of Hel's toxic relationships. Well, maybe things were better in a previous world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kranerian View Post
    Oof, she's not looking well. I have to wonder though, would a vendetta of that scale between two gods of the same pantheon risk creating a mini-snarl? Or is that only when gods of different pantheons clash?
    I'm going to assume no. The Snarl happened because (as far as we know) the different quiddities got tangled up to create a 4-color being. Since there's only one color, I assume it's either pretty hard to tangle anything at all, or any tangles would only be as potent as a cantrip to the gods.
    Last edited by Psychronia; 2019-08-20 at 03:21 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    which in both cases I know of of undead that can serve as her Clerics (wights and vampires*
    Hardly the only ones. Mummies can also become self-aware, as do, of course, litches, which technically trap souls but do so voluntarily. But there is a whole host of skeletons that could also serve, including the one already in the comic created by RC.

    And IIRC, when Hel complained about her priests getting shanked as low-level bosses, wasn't she talking of regular skeletons with class levels?

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    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Thor can’t even get his own clergy to accept that trees aren’t evil, so I am not confident in believing that the gods could get their followers to not only accept undead priests of an evil deity but to cover their asses while they recruit which would necessarily involve making some more undead (which in both cases I know of of undead that can serve as her Clerics (wights and vampires*) means trapping people’s souls).

    *I call dibs on that name for a metal band, by the way.
    My read is that Thor could get his clergy to accept that trees are evil (witness him explaining to Durkon and Minrah that they don't have to be afraid of the trees around Valhalla), but that he chooses not to try, perhaps in order to give dwarves one more way to die in battle (witness him also, after sighing heavily, going on to tell them that the trees around Valhalla are rebel trees and that most of Leeky Windstaff's deciduous and coniferous brothers are still class-A villains).

    Also, aren't wights neither capable of becoming clerics nor beings that trap souls?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    No, Hel doesn't look healthy. She started fading away in front of Loki and Thyrm.

    I suspect that Hel may not survive another interregum and Loki is sad both at Hel's understandable hatred and the likelihood that his daughter of billions of years may die because of the bet he set up between Hel and Thor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychronia View Post
    Hel's little outburst was genuinely terrifying, but the aftermath was more tragic than anything. The irony is that if it weren't for well-known gods directly connected to her like Loki, she probably wouldn't survive to the making of the new world as she is.
    If it wasn't for these connections I doubt she'd still be alive right now.

    I'm still a little iffy about why Loki arranged for the bet at all. I'm sure we'll get an explanation eventually, but as it stands, it feels like everyone gets a raw deal. The Dwarves, Hel, heck, even the other gods of the pantheon have to go out of their way to argue with a malnourished death goddess prone to tantrums just to get their Dwarven followers' souls to their rightful domains.

    I can't even argue that this was Loki being myth-classic Loki and doing it for the laughs, because:
    Where's the punchline?
    It even hurts Loki, because he doesn't get all that many supporters if honor is against his preachings and the society is based on honor.
    Last edited by Schroeswald; 2019-08-20 at 03:23 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I disagree, if Strip 1 is any indication they can change the rules, ...
    This is a comic strip. I suspect that they can only change the rules within the parameters of the Roger Rabbit rule -- "Not any time. Only when it was funny."

    Quote Originally Posted by TRH View Post
    If it's true that Hel's unbalanced soul diet would preclude her surviving to see the next world begin, then that implies her plan could never have worked to begin with. Don't know how to feel about that, or how it can't be true if the same is likely true of the Dark One.
    Except that if this world falls, but they salvage all the souls in it, then all the dwarves who die at that moment are hers, since they didn't die in an honorable way.

    : But this world is almost done, and when it is, I'll collect millions of souls all at once -- and my winnings from the bet. Thor and Loki will have Hel to pay!

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    I guess Loki is finally seeing that the Bet really has destabilized Hel. Even for me, seeing the exact symptoms she’s suffering from in this comic is pretty saddening. I wonder if there’s some way to release her from the Bet without destroying the world?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    Except that if this world falls, but they salvage all the souls in it, then all the dwarves who die at that moment are hers, since they didn't die in an honorable way.

    : But this world is almost done, and when it is, I'll collect millions of souls all at once -- and my winnings from the bet. Thor and Loki will have Hel to pay!
    And yet there was talk about how the imbalance in her diet could cost her regardless. Also, look at the Dark One. If the world ends, he'll get all the souls of not one race, but several, and yet that's potentially not enough to tide him over. And he hasn't suffered from a lack of worship like Hel has. If he couldn't make it, how could she?
    Last edited by TRH; 2019-08-20 at 03:35 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Hardly the only ones. Mummies can also become self-aware, as do, of course, litches, which technically trap souls but do so voluntarily. But there is a whole host of skeletons that could also serve, including the one already in the comic created by RC.
    Well, I did say "That I know of".

    Can all of them become Clerics though? And this doesn,'t solve the fact that undead seem to be persona non-grata everywhere that isn't a criminal organisation in a city with more criminals than victims (and even the back-alley doctor doesn't like them) or at the Oracle's place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    And IIRC, when Hel complained about her priests getting shanked as low-level bosses, wasn't she talking of regular skeletons with class levels?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    My read is that Thor could get his clergy to accept that trees are evil (witness him explaining to Durkon and Minrah that they don't have to be afraid of the trees around Valhalla), but that he chooses not to try, perhaps in order to give dwarves one more way to die in battle (witness him also, after sighing heavily, going on to tell them that the trees around Valhalla are rebel trees and that most of Leeky Windstaff's deciduous and coniferous brothers are still class-A villains).
    But that's my point! Even after they are dead and safe and with him telling them point blank trees aren,'t evil they refuse to believe him! If a god were to order his flock to tolerate and protect the undead, I would expect the main result to be a severe drop in temple attendance. Or people just plain pretending he didn't say that or that people are taking it out of context or something.
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