The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    He just needs to find an old copy of Dragon magazine with time travel spells.

    Then AFTER he ascends to be a god, he can go back in time and get the worshippers.
    Wait, D&D has time travel spells? How do you even manage that as a GM?
    Quote Originally Posted by mjasghar View Post
    The eastern pantheon in Oots is the Greek one
    The western one is the Babylonian one
    And not coincidentally the one with an evil top deity
    Have we had any indication that Marduk is evil? And why "not coincidentally"?
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-08-20 at 06:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  2. - Top - End - #212
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Wait, D&D has time travel spells? How do you even manage that as a GM?
    They're all locked in a small box with the words "Doctor Who RP only" inscribed in the sap of a treant.
    Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-08-20 at 06:15 PM.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    I gotta say, even though Hel is a wrongdoer, OOTS hits my "I hate my dad" bone every time.
    This signature was written by me, Aveline, to indicate that this message was written by me, Aveline.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    i'm guessing this might be addressed in the last several pages but there was alot on the first page so..

    i'm 95% sure that he wigs out when she exhausters herself and is THEN sad so i think it has little to do with her hating him and everything to do with the fact that she's malnourished and way more than he thought, which is made worse by the fact she's trying to destroy the world which she doesnt realize will kill her since she's not healthy enough to survive till they have new mortals again

    she wants to destroy the world because she's literally dying in this one but doing so will kill her

    its a loose loose unless they change how things work in THIS world which hopefully is related to how the pantheons will settle when this is all over.

    maybe it will end with them changing the rules because them going 'screw it, this is our millionth planet so why not screw each other over and mess with the mortals" has literally twice over (between Hel and The Dark One) screwed over any chance of them stopping the snarl forever
    Part of the "Raise Nale and Let Him Serve Life in Prison" fan-club

    "The only reason why people didn't like Durkon before was because he is the only member of the group that doesn't commit evil, like hurting others, or breaking the rules for giggles. I.E.' He's not cool'"

  5. - Top - End - #215
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    So The Giant's quote about Hel's lack of worshipers:
    No one worships Hel, as was mentioned here. That means literally not one single living person, ever.
    I take this to mean that it is completely impossible for any living being to do so, not simply some issues with not having clerics to tell her side of the story and grant boons to worshipers. If it were possible, there would certainly be some weirdos who would worshiper her, even if she couldn't do anything for them in this world (and probably wouldn't do anything for them in the afterlife). I think something more powerful than "she can't have clerics among the living" must be baked into the world, if The Giant's comment is right (and he would know).

    That said she's clearly suffering from the lack of worship (which she complains about specifically). Beyond that she's presumably getting plenty of belief since she's an important part of other god's stories, and should be getting dedication and souls, though Thor telling the dwarves about the bet is likely causing her to get less than she expected. I'm not sure all that is enough to destroy her between worlds though, Odin clearly didn't get much worship in the previous world, but he made it mostly intact.

  6. - Top - End - #216
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aveline View Post
    I gotta say, even though Hel is a wrongdoer, OOTS hits my "I hate my dad" bone every time.
    *Hugs, if given your permission*
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    *Hugs, if given your permission*
    No permission. I'm sorry.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aveline View Post
    No permission. I'm sorry.
    Okay, then... Please accept my sympathies.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

  9. - Top - End - #219
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    I really hope we get some kind of explanation for the bet. Seems like a terrible thing to do to your own daughter. Moreso knowing how the lack of believers can affect a god.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by facw View Post
    So The Giant's quote about Hel's lack of worshipers:

    I take this to mean that it is completely impossible for any living being to do so, not simply some issues with not having clerics to tell her side of the story and grant boons to worshipers. If it were possible, there would certainly be some weirdos who would worshiper her, even if she couldn't do anything for them in this world (and probably wouldn't do anything for them in the afterlife). I think something more powerful than "she can't have clerics among the living" must be baked into the world, if The Giant's comment is right (and he would know).

    That said she's clearly suffering from the lack of worship (which she complains about specifically). Beyond that she's presumably getting plenty of belief since she's an important part of other god's stories, and should be getting dedication and souls, though Thor telling the dwarves about the bet is likely causing her to get less than she expected. I'm not sure all that is enough to destroy her between worlds though, Odin clearly didn't get much worship in the previous world, but he made it mostly intact.
    I'd say that there's some sort of vague power that makes it so that whenever someone considers making a church of Hel, with clerics and living worshipers, they suddenly get the thought interrupted and start thinking about something unrelated.

    Or maybe there's something in the water.

    Hel is probably getting lots of belief because she is part of plenty of scary stories parents tell their children to keep them in line. "Don't steal, because that's dishonorable and then Hel will get you!" "If you lie, Hel's going to come out at night with her death giants and pluck you right out of bed!"
    Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-08-20 at 06:29 PM.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  11. - Top - End - #221
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    I think he is sad because he does genuinely care for her, and is coming to realise his little lesson may have had unintended results?
    Maybe Loki didn't prompt the wager to teach a lesson. Maybe Loki prompted the wager to help Thor become more powerful, so that a cleric of Thor would have enough strength to draw on in order to t-

    Er, nvm, the wager was made when the world was being created, and the Dark One ascended during the current world's tenure. So the wager could not have been in preparation for getting Durkon in position to talk with Redcloak. My bad.

  12. - Top - End - #222
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I'd say that there's some sort of vague power that makes it so that whenever someone considers making a church of Hel, with clerics and living worshipers, they suddenly get the thought interrupted and start thinking about something unrelated.

    Or maybe there's something in the water.

    Hel is probably getting lots of belief because she is part of plenty of scary stories parents tell their children to keep them in line. "Don't steal, because that's dishonorable and then Hel will get you!" "If you lie, Hel's going to come out at night with her death giants and pluck you right out of bed!"
    It could be mortals, especially evil ones, go where the power is. And while worshipping a God who can't bestow spells or anything to her clerics might get some hipster cred, the Church of Fenrir, Loki, Thrym, Surtr, or any other evil God can give the clerics power.
    What Hel needs is dwarves to set up prayers for the dishonoured, asking Hel to be lenient to those who died in shame. While she won't get as much worship as she did before, maybe now she'll be more grateful for it.
    Of course it's very likely she'll try to get Curly to vamp Hilgya out of spite and for everything to go horribly wrong.

    As for my previous ragging on Thrym... Maybe I'm being a bit harsh. I did try and script out a conversation with Thor and him about getting his act together and resuming old hobbies... But the only hobby I could really think of was 'fighting Thor', which probably wouldn't be healthy either.

  13. - Top - End - #223
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Something else just occurred to me: if Hel succeeds at her plan to get the world destroyed, what would that make her?

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    Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds. : P

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    He just needs to find an old copy of Dragon magazine with time travel spells.

    Then AFTER he ascends to be a god, he can go back in time and get the worshippers.
    Or some solid illusions and super high bluff/dipl, go hang with the kuo-toa for a while....

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by facw View Post
    So The Giant's quote about Hel's lack of worshipers:

    I take this to mean that it is completely impossible for any living being to do so, .[...] If it were possible, there would certainly be some weirdos who would worshiper her, even if she couldn't do anything for them in this world (and probably wouldn't do anything for them in the afterlife).[...]

    That said she's clearly suffering from the lack of worship (which she complains about specifically). intact.
    That quote is helpful because it lines up with the words in her flashback. Hel has no choice but to forgoe worship in this incarnation of the world.
    In the past, she had the normal setup. I wonder what she was like in normal circumstances?

    Loki seems like a truly awful father.

    Quote Originally Posted by flyinglemur View Post
    I, for one, have no sympathy for Hel. The only reason she is dying is because she chose to make her afterlife such a terrible place. She actively enslaves and tortures the souls she gets, which is exactly why the dwarves don't want to go to her plane. If she was kind to those souls she could have easily become one of the more powerful gods in this world. [...]

    Compare that to the Dark One, whose afterlife is a great reward for his followers, at least by goblin standards.
    Ok... I'm nearly speechless, as that is fascinating. Why is Hel cruel to the dwarves? I assumed it was because she got a terrible deal, by her father.

    In dnd lore, is Hel normally vicious towards souls or is that specific to OOTS?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Compare and contrast Loki's reaction from Hel's outrage and stated desire to see her father DEAD, to Tarquin's reaction to Nale saying he simply wanted nothing at all from his father.

    Tarquin is far more sociopathic than the God of "I Do Whatever's Best For Me".

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by antipodeF View Post
    Something else just occurred to me: if Hel succeeds at her plan to get the world destroyed, what would that make her?

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    Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds. : P
    She'd need to be sympathetic for that. We've seen not a single depiction of her that wasn't nasty and unsympathetic. She got conned but that doesn't make her likeable.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Anansiil View Post
    Loki seems like a truly awful father.
    In OotS, Loki being evil may be a factor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anansiil View Post
    Ok... I'm nearly speechless, as that is fascinating. Why is Hel cruel to the dwarves? I assumed it was because she got a terrible deal, by her father.

    In dnd lore, is Hel normally vicious towards souls or is that specific to OOTS?
    In OotS, Hel being Evil may be a factor.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandor View Post
    Compare and contrast Loki's reaction from Hel's outrage and stated desire to see her father DEAD, to Tarquin's reaction to Nale saying he simply wanted nothing at all from his father.

    Tarquin is far more sociopathic than the God of "I Do Whatever's Best For Me".
    Lawful vs. Chaotic. Lawful Evil people tend to be way colder - and, thus, more sociopathic - than Chaotic Evil ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Are you serious? This is exactly what not believing someone but being unwilling to contradict them looks like.
    Better put than I said it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt620 View Post
    The deity version of a spoiled tantrum. I hope that's enough from Hel for the time being.
    She's literally dying (from all available evidence). It's not a "spoiled tantrum."

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I mean the reason she's so bad right now comes from her giving power to the clerics and giving up a bunch of souls for a better chance to get the 10 million.
    [citation needed]

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Lawful vs. Chaotic. Lawful Evil people tend to be way colder - and, thus, more sociopathic - than Chaotic Evil ones.
    Um, could that just be that Loki is someone who is more willing to care about people/gods (or maybe he's just less Evil), and not that Lawful people are somehow more sociopathic? Because I'd call Xykon much more sociopathic than Tarquin.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Um, could that just be that Loki is someone who is more willing to care about people/gods (or maybe he's just less Evil), and not that Lawful people are somehow more sociopathic? Because I'd call Xykon much more sociopathic than Tarquin.
    I wouldn't. Xykon is (arguably) more evil than Tarquin, but what I mean by sociopathic here is uncaring or unfeeling. Xykon is sadistic. Tarquin is a dictator.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Um, could that just be that Loki is someone who is more willing to care about people/gods (or maybe he's just less Evil), and not that Lawful people are somehow more sociopathic? Because I'd call Xykon much more sociopathic than Tarquin.
    Loki might be vaguely Neutral in comparison to most CE gods, though that's besides the point. Loki is Loki: he's a trickster, a man who rigs a scene where Thor suddenly starts kisses a cow, the sort of guy who follows his own agenda, but is also here for laughs. While he is no less dangerous than the likes of Xykon, Redcloak or Tarquin, Loki is (from what we've seen) a more entertaining person ("a better person" is not readily true, not sure how else to put it), not because of his spot in the alignment chart, but because of who he is.

    For Xykon v Tarquin: Xykon kills and enjoys the killing.

    Tarquin kills because it gets people out of the way quickly. (He arguably appreciates it in an academic sense though)
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    [citation needed]
    While there's no direct source, belief, souls and dedications are what powers her, and she just lost a bunch of her souls, she also just gave up more power to give spells to clerics, that means her power just got dropped a lot lower than normal, its quite possible that this situation would be the same, this definitely hurt her a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    I wouldn't. Xykon is (arguably) more evil than Tarquin, but what I mean by sociopathic here is uncaring or unfeeling. Xykon is sadistic. Tarquin is a dictator.
    Profile of a sociopath I'd say it applies to them fairly similarly, I'd call Xykon more because he is much more sadistic, you can say Tarquin is more unfeeling but you can't say he's more sociopathic due to his Lawful nature.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    While there's no direct source, belief, souls and dedications are what powers her, and she just lost a bunch of her souls, she also just gave up more power to give spells to clerics, that means her power just got dropped a lot lower than normal, its quite possible that this situation would be the same, this definitely hurt her a lot.


    Profile of a sociopath I'd say it applies to them fairly similarly, I'd call Xykon more because he is much more sadistic, you can say Tarquin is more unfeeling but you can't say he's more sociopathic due to his Lawful nature.
    Eh. Fair, I guess. I suppose I am very much biased against Lawful Evil.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    I wouldn't. Xykon is (arguably) more evil than Tarquin, but what I mean by sociopathic here is uncaring or unfeeling. Xykon is sadistic. Tarquin is a dictator.
    That last sentence doesn't connect with the rest.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    That last sentence doesn't connect with the rest.
    Most (successful) dictators in fiction tend to be much more pragmatic with regards to whom they hurt and even, sometimes, why. Imitating some Caligula-like figure, naming your horse consul or giving some sort of high post to your idiot son, only gets you so far before everyone else teams up to take you out.
    Last edited by The_Weirdo; 2019-08-20 at 08:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Most (successful) dictators in fiction tend to be much more pragmatic with regards to whom they hurt and even, sometimes, why. Imitating some Caligula-like figure, naming your horse consul or giving some sort of high post to your idiot son, only gets you so far before everyone else teams up to take you out.
    Regardless, if you're discussing a specific character, then trends that others may or may not follow don't necessarily relate.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    That last sentence doesn't connect with the rest.
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Most (successful) dictators in fiction tend to be much more pragmatic with regards to whom they hurt and even, sometimes, why. Imitating some Caligula-like figure, naming your horse consul or giving some sort of high post to your idiot son, only gets you so far before everyone else teams up to take you out.

    Basically, it seems to be "I killed you because you put your feet on my bed" suggests an emotional trigger for the killing, while "I killed you so I can maximize my council vote next weekend" suggests a political, detached mindset (thus more in line with various views of sociopath ideologies).
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  30. - Top - End - #240
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    Default Re: OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    Basically, it seems to be "I killed you because you put your feet on my bed" suggests an emotional trigger for the killing, while "I killed you so I can maximize my council vote next weekend" suggests a political, detached mindset (thus more in line with various views of sociopath ideologies).
    Yeah, but Tarquin strikes me as the kind of person who really likes his bed.
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    Spoiler: But you'll never stop me burning
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