The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Feb 2017

    Default Hel's situation (and how to fix it)

    Something tells me the status quo with Hel has to be addressed to eliminate her as a threat. I don't see her getting Snarled/fading away before the story ends. There's two ways I can think of to resolve her arc.
    1) Durkon, knowing about how she doesn't need a full blown church to survive, just worship, gets the Dwarves to pray for the Dishonoured, asking Hel to be lenient with those who died in shame. While not an ideal situation, it could work to stop Hel being so invested in this world's destruction.

    2) Loki, as bet broker, and Thor, as the competition, both agree to end the Bet prematurely. If all parties are in agreement I don't see why this wouldn't be possible (unless, as I've considered before, deific bets are hard-coded into the universe and can only be undone by unmaking reality). However, to end the bet, Hel will have to back down, either admitting living clerics are more important than souls in the long-term, or accepting the end of the bet when her masterplan could still turn around (see Sunk Cost Fallacy).

    Thoughts?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Hel's situation (and how to fix it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    2) Loki, as bet broker, and Thor, as the competition, both agree to end the Bet prematurely. If all parties are in agreement I don't see why this wouldn't be possible (unless, as I've considered before, deific bets are hard-coded into the universe and can only be undone by unmaking reality). However, to end the bet, Hel will have to back down, either admitting living clerics are more important than souls in the long-term, or accepting the end of the bet when her masterplan could still turn around (see Sunk Cost Fallacy).
    If nothing else, this involves Hel admitting she was wrong. This doesn't seem likely.
    Formerly known as Stu42.

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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Jasdoif's Avatar

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    Mar 2007
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    Oregon, USA

    Default Re: Hel's situation (and how to fix it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    Something tells me the status quo with Hel has to be addressed to eliminate her as a threat. I don't see her getting Snarled/fading away before the story ends. There's two ways I can think of to resolve her arc.
    1) Durkon, knowing about how she doesn't need a full blown church to survive, just worship, gets the Dwarves to pray for the Dishonoured, asking Hel to be lenient with those who died in shame. While not an ideal situation, it could work to stop Hel being so invested in this world's destruction.

    2) Loki, as bet broker, and Thor, as the competition, both agree to end the Bet prematurely. If all parties are in agreement I don't see why this wouldn't be possible (unless, as I've considered before, deific bets are hard-coded into the universe and can only be undone by unmaking reality). However, to end the bet, Hel will have to back down, either admitting living clerics are more important than souls in the long-term, or accepting the end of the bet when her masterplan could still turn around (see Sunk Cost Fallacy).

    Thoughts?
    3) Sidestep the bet: Hel can relinquish souls en masse, so it's certainly feasible that she could agree to let future dwarves go onto their respective afterlife even if the bet is still in play. There's a rather critical problem, though: Those dwarves are her only source of subsistence; not only would whatever she gets in return be worth the loss, it'd also need to supplement supplant her diet. And...I have no idea what form such an offer could take.

    4) Destroy the world. Obvious. The aftermath is anything but obvious, of course; what with the story having a happy ending for Elan. Maybe something esoteric like the Order plunging through the Snarl to disable the threat it poses from the other side, time-compression style, before it destroys the inhabited portions of the planet; and the gods weaving the surviving pieces of the planet back together constitutes a new world. (Maybe "esoteric" is far too gentle a word....)
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Aug 2018

    Default Re: Hel's situation (and how to fix it)

    5. If Hel survives to see the threat of the Snarl resolved, and the cycle being broken, the fact that the world won't be destroyed and the cut-off of the bet will never come could be used as a justification for ending it. Maybe Thor and Loki use Hel's plot with the Godsmoot, even if unsuccessful, as a win for the wager

    6. Maybe the Frontarch and Curly can go start up a Church of Hel somewhere.
    Last edited by BasiliskSoldier; 2019-08-30 at 09:23 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Hel's situation (and how to fix it)

    I do not believe the bet can end with a mere concession. I believe it is baked into the world and cannot be ended until the strands of reality are undone.

    On the other hand:

    A) Hel can empower undead clerics. Any undead templated character can earn exp. With clerics and time she can create narcissitic death cults. Liches, for example, are most commonly arcanists, but can be clerics.

    B) Hel can threaten plague and demand appeasement to avoid it. In dwarf lands she will gain the souls of those who do not appease her as a bonus.

    Similarly, she can offer to limit the suffering of those dishonored dead whose living families appease her.

    C) Hel can offer undeath as a reward for worship. The souls of loyal followers can be used to animate undead which may exist virtually forever.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Jun 2009

    Default Re: Hel's situation (and how to fix it)

    The Problem with this is that "her winning" does not only mean "My clerics manage to convince Dwarlin to vote to destroy the world!", it can ALSO end her way with "Ok, now the last gate's been destroyed, let's wrap this up guys." Which one of those options it is, as long as the gods get to destroy the world, would be irrelevant for her.

    The risk of waiting for it, is that the Snarl has a good chance of eating everyone then she gets nothing of course. And considering all that, it would be silly for her to step down and cancel the bet. If the world gets destroyed she gets nothing either way, since the bet is off she lost dominion over the dwarves, and she has no worshippers, or the snarl eats everyone. And if it survives... well no world has survived so far, why should this one? Maybe it will last another 50 or 100 years, but its gonna go boom soon enough. Likely not enough time to restock on enough Worship in a world that hates her, to compensate for the souls she loses that way.

    If she sticks to it, she has a chance to win, if she surrenders she loses either way. (She does not know about the Purple color, so that can't factor into her decission making)

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Sep 2018

    Default Re: Hel's situation (and how to fix it)

    There’s an implication the world will have purple quiddity woven into it.
    So the world will change
    I think we will see a last panel or even a last few pages where everything is given that extra shading to add depth
    This implies the world can be rewritten into something approximating modern d & d with humanoids getting full access to classes
    'Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! “The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered, crying:'Auta i lómë!" The night is passing!"

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2015

    Default Re: Hel's situation (and how to fix it)

    Quote Originally Posted by mjasghar View Post
    There’s an implication the world will have purple quiddity woven into it.
    So the world will change
    I think we will see a last panel or even a last few pages where everything is given that extra shading to add depth
    This implies the world can be rewritten into something approximating modern d & d with humanoids getting full access to classes
    While I get your point, and I think the idea of the art becoming more realistic and detailed, in accordance with a more typical fantasy art style, to show the world evolving from 3 to 4 colors...What do you mean by that last bit?

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Hel's situation (and how to fix it)

    Quote Originally Posted by mjasghar View Post
    There’s an implication the world will have purple quiddity woven into it.
    So the world will change
    I think we will see a last panel or even a last few pages where everything is given that extra shading to add depth
    This implies the world can be rewritten into something approximating modern d & d with humanoids getting full access to classes
    Are you talking about an implication I missed?

    I thought the Dark One wouldn't be able to survive to the next world if the Snarl undoes this one.

    Or do you mean when the rifts are sealed up with his new quiddity?

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Aug 2015
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    Female

    Default Re: Hel's situation (and how to fix it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    Are you talking about an implication I missed?

    I thought the Dark One wouldn't be able to survive to the next world if the Snarl undoes this one.

    Or do you mean when the rifts are sealed up with his new quiddity?
    Probably the latter- rifts sealed up with purple quiddity. It'd be a bit weirder if the new influence didn't change things any.

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