The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed - Coming in December and available for pre-order now
Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    enderlord99's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    A film shoot.

    Default Why are some words automatically considered hate-speech yet NOT also in the filter?

    {Scrubbed}
    Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2019-08-22 at 10:03 AM.
    Spoiler: Previous avatars
    Show
    Spoiler: Vanity quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

    I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm.
    Explanation here.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    JNAProductions's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Fighting Demons!

    Default Re: Why are some words automatically considered hate-speech yet NOT also in the filte

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    {scrub the post, scrub the quote}
    No idea what the full words are, but if I had to guess, one of two things:

    1) They have a premade filter that just doesn't include those words.

    2) The words haven't come up enough to be worth putting in the filter.

    I question how you learned these words aren't filtered, but regardless, if you know a word shouldn't be said, don't say it, even if the forum doesn't automatically censor it.
    Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2019-08-22 at 10:04 AM.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

    Current Avatar by Elder Tsofu, who is awesome!

    Spoiler: Former Avatars
    Show
    Spoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Professor Gnoll!
    Show


    Spoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Cdr. Fallout!
    Show

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    enderlord99's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    A film shoot.

    Default Re: Why are some words automatically considered hate-speech yet NOT also in the filte

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    No idea what the full words are, but if I had to guess, one of two things:

    1) They have a premade filter that just doesn't include those words.

    2) The words haven't come up enough to be worth putting in the filter.

    I question how you learned these words aren't filtered, but regardless, if you know a word shouldn't be said, don't say it, even if the forum doesn't automatically censor it.
    I didn't know they were considered slurs until I got a warning for using one, along with a note that I would have been insta-banned if I referred to another poster by it.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2019-08-21 at 11:04 PM.
    Spoiler: Previous avatars
    Show
    Spoiler: Vanity quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

    I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm.
    Explanation here.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2017

    Default Re: Why are some words automatically considered hate-speech yet NOT also in the filte

    Individual moderators will call things at their discretion, while getting a word added to the filter takes more work. On top of that, what is and isn't considered a slur changes quickly. If everything were handled at the level of the board filter, it would take a ton of time keeping it up to date as well as making conversation much more difficult with the rate of false positives.

    Still, in a lot of cases, it's okay if you didn't know at the outset that people get upset around these words. If you think your context was okay you can PM the mod to ask them about it. As a rule of thumb, though, just acknowledge that it's a word that gets some people upset and strive to use other ones instead. Warnings are warnings instead of infractions precisely because they're there to give you a heads up.
    Last edited by Anymage; 2019-08-22 at 12:01 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Rynjin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2016

    Default Re: Why are some words automatically considered hate-speech yet NOT also in the filte

    I imagine it's because the former isn't super commonly used as a pejorative and the latter has other meanings if it's the word I'm thinking off, such as to move items from your high level character to a lower level one in a video game.

    The word filter in general could benefit from that kind of nuance, so we're not stuck having a hard time discussing the **** Van Dyke show, for example. Given the former is a very common name (a common shortening of the 8th most common name in the US) and the latter is ONLY used as a pejorative outside a very specific TV personality, it's weird the former is banned but the latter is not, to be honest.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why are some words automatically considered hate-speech yet NOT also in the filte

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    The word filter in general could benefit from that kind of nuance, so we're not stuck having a hard time discussing the **** Van Dyke show, for example. Given the former is a very common name (a common shortening of the 8th most common name in the US) and the latter is ONLY used as a pejorative outside a very specific TV personality, it's weird the former is banned but the latter is not, to be honest.
    If by "the latter" you are referring to the word "dyke", may I refer you to any decent dictionary, e.g.:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cambridge Dictionary
    dyke noun a wall built to prevent the sea or a river from covering an area, or a channel dug to take water away from an area.
    The amount of use this meaning gets depends on the area (so it is used a lot in low-lying wetlands, but not much in deserts), but since slang meaning is generally considered offensive, it is probably a more common use overall than the offensive one.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Ninja_Prawn's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    UK

    Default Re: Why are some words automatically considered hate-speech yet NOT also in the filte

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    I didn't know they were considered slurs until I got a warning for using one, along with a note that I would have been insta-banned if I referred to another poster by it.
    If there is a known list of words that will result in instant bans, it would be good to see it, becuase I think I know which words you're referring to and I didn't know either of them were considered to be hate speech... They're not words that I would normally hesitate over.
    Last edited by Ninja_Prawn; 2019-08-22 at 03:29 AM.
    Chibi Sora by zheida!

    Spoiler: Acclaim
    Show
    Winner of Spellbrew Contest I & Subclass Contest II
    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    That is the perfect ending. Thread done, Ninja_Prawn won.
    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    We love our ninja prawn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Gnoll View Post
    NinjaPrawn, you are my favourite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir cryosin View Post
    Ninja you're like the forum's fairy godmother.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkMinty View Post
    This is why you're the best, Ninja Prawn.
    Spoiler: PbP
    Show

    Homebrew: Sig, MHP

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: Why are some words automatically considered hate-speech yet NOT also in the filte

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    If there is a known list of words that will result in instant bans, it would be good to see it, becuase I think I know which words you're referring to and I didn't know either of them were considered to be hate speech... They're not words that I would normally hesitate over.
    There is probably no such list because, as Anymage noted, we are an inventive bunch of bastards always coming up with new and interesting ways to denigrate those different from ourselves.

    I'm the last person in a position to say this, but the best defence against this is to not call anyone anything. If you honestly are not aware, say, that a british word for cigarette is also an american homophobic insult, then you shouldn't be in danger, since you aren't about to say, "Grey Wolf, you are such a cigarette", now are you?

    enderlord99 got the lowest level of infraction, and to contextualize why it was an infraction, was informed that the words they used, when used offensively, are enough to insta-ban. But they didn't get banned, or even (by the sound of it) got points, so the mods understood the context wasn't that bad. As long as you are in the same position, nothing bad is going to happen. So, to be safe, as I said, just don't call people names, even names you don't think should be offensive.

    Grey Wolf
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-08-22 at 07:47 AM.
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Over there!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why are some words automatically considered hate-speech yet NOT also in the filte

    I also wouldn't be surprised if the filter is rather out of date. Filter lists run afoul of the S****horpe problem so often and slang shifts so much many places have stopped trying to keep them up to date, leaving only the most egregious examples in and limiting the disruption to discussions of farmyard birds, vulnerable points in plate and actors incapable of cockney accents.

    After all if someone DOES use a word in an offensive manner what happens? The post gets reported and a mod steps in. The list doesn't help, because if were to call you a ing er from ing it is clear what I meant, meaning the list hasn't actually helped reduce upset and a mod can make just as effective a judgement.

    EDIT: OK, so I walked into that one. I swear I was just calling it by what I know it as, didn't stop to think that, OF COURSE, it would turn into a self-demonstrating example.
    Last edited by Evil DM Mark3; 2019-08-22 at 08:21 AM.
    GNU Terry Pratchett

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: Why are some words automatically considered hate-speech yet NOT also in the filte

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilDMMk3 View Post
    I also wouldn't be surprised if the filter is rather out of date. Filter lists run afoul of the S****horpe problem so often and slang shifts so much many places have stopped trying to keep them up to date, leaving only the most egregious examples in and limiting the disruption to discussions of farmyard birds, vulnerable points in plate and actors incapable of cockney accents.

    After all if someone DOES use a word in an offensive manner what happens? The post gets reported and a mod steps in. The list doesn't help, because if were to call you a ing er from ing it is clear what I meant, meaning the list hasn't actually helped reduce upset and a mod can make just as effective a judgement.

    EDIT: OK, so I walked into that one. I swear I was just calling it by what I know it as, didn't stop to think that, OF COURSE, it would turn into a self-demonstrating example.
    As an aside, we have discussed the Scunthorpe issue before, and Rawhide (& other mods) not only informed us that as long as we are discussing the town (or the issue) and not using it offensively, we are allowed to avoid the filter, and even taught us how to do so.

    As always, though, one should be cognizant of the reasons why we have a filter, and not get clever about abusing the mods' patience.

    Grey Wolf
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-08-22 at 08:38 AM.
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Sheriff in the Playground Administrator
     
    Roland St. Jude's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why are some words automatically considered hate-speech yet NOT also in the filte

    Sheriff: We know that the filter is over- and under-inclusive. I'm sure we've acknowledged that before in Board Issues. You can always work around the filter to post an innocuous usage of a filtered word. The filter is not there to govern what you post, it's there to prevent the appearance of certain words on the forum. By that I mean, the filter isn't moderation of your conduct - we do that through Warnings/Infractions. What the filter does is shield other posters from seeing your profanities or whatever. Posters should govern their own conduct, as we often say, erring on the side of caution.

    As for not knowing a given word is a slur, we're not going to give people a pass to post hate speech because they didn't know (or claim they didn't know) it was hate speech. That said, the default in the Forum Rules is to issue a Warning for first instance of any category of violation (including Hate Speech). So a banning based on a first instance would be exceedingly rare (but possible - directing the n-word at another poster in anger seems pretty blatantly in violation of the Forum Rules.)

    If you have an issue with a specific instance of moderation, please PM the moderator who took the action.
    Forum Rules

    Roland in the Dark by Djinn in Tonic

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •