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    Default First generation in a world built by gods...

    I was inspired by something someone else wrote in another thread, but what happens to the first generation of people? Do they live knowing they were created directly by the gods, or do they start in media res, with some sort of backstory preceding them with?

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by MReav View Post
    I was inspired by something someone else wrote in another thread, but what happens to the first generation of people? Do they live knowing they were created directly by the gods, or do they start in media res, with some sort of backstory preceding them with?
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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by MReav View Post
    I was inspired by something someone else wrote in another thread, but what happens to the first generation of people? Do they live knowing they were created directly by the gods, or do they start in media res, with some sort of backstory preceding them with?
    It probably changes by the world and what the gods decide each time. With over a billion iterations, I'm sure they've tried every which way, more than once.

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    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    It probably changes by the world and what the gods decide each time. With over a billion iterations, I'm sure they've tried every which way, more than once.

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    Okah, additional question: do the mortals of this world know?

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by MReav View Post
    I was inspired by something someone else wrote in another thread, but what happens to the first generation of people? Do they live knowing they were created directly by the gods, or do they start in media res, with some sort of backstory preceding them with?
    Some of them start out as movie theater snacks ...
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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by MReav View Post
    Okah, additional question: do the mortals of this world know?
    Know that their distant ancestors where created with memories or without? Doubtful. Maybe some of the original dragons are still around (a couple thousand years isn't that much for them) and they'd know (in the sense that they remember waking up as adults, or if informed of the actual age of the world, they'd be able to count backwards and figure out which memories are implanted).

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    The Gods have a vested interest in mortals believing in their existence and worshipping them. So I don't find any reason why they would hide from the First Generation of Mortals the fact that they were created and nurtured by the Gods.
    Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2019-08-22 at 11:36 AM.

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    The "in media res" thing seems weird and convoluted to implement, so I'd imagine it's less likely. I expect that mortals are just created and put down in what the gods intend to be their homelands. To me, what's more interesting is whether they start off already having families, or towns built around them, or any other kind of infrastructure. My guess is no, on all counts - seeing what the mortals decide to do without any sort of prior constraint is half the fun of creating a new world, I'd imagine - but it's impossible to know for sure.

    The one thing I do feel fairly confident of is that they're all level 1, at least the ones that have class HD rather than racial HD. Otherwise, they wouldn't need to kill "monsters" like goblinoids in order to level up. Which brings up another interesting question - do they all start off as commoners, or do the gods assign a class to all the level 1 humanoids? Neither seems particularly more likely than the other.
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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    The Gods have a vested interest in mortals believing in their existence and worshipping them. So I don't find any reason why they would hide to the First Generation of Mortals the fact that they were created and nurtured by the Gods.
    Of course they could have created the first generation of mortals with the firm belief that they had mortal ancestors who were great legendary heroes created by/descended from the gods.

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Given that the worlds only get to last a few thousand years at most and that not all settings are D&D based, I'd argue for in media res. After all, it's hard to get a gritty cyberpunk campaign going if the world doesn't have cities and tech savvy citizens from the start.

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    We know that a lot of things we think of as abstractions are literally real in the Stickiverse. Like hit points, or experience levels. Presumably, "backstories" or "prologues" would be another abstraction-except-real. If you want an adventure world, your adventurers need to have dungeons they can delve into. So why not seed the lands with some "ancient" "ruins" full of marginally lethal traps and Longswords +1? You only have a few thousand years 'til the Snarl eats this world, you can't exactly sit on your hands and just hope some ruins crop up organically.

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by Khay View Post
    We know that a lot of things we think of as abstractions are literally real in the Stickiverse. Like hit points, or experience levels. Presumably, "backstories" or "prologues" would be another abstraction-except-real. If you want an adventure world, your adventurers need to have dungeons they can delve into. So why not seed the lands with some "ancient" "ruins" full of marginally lethal traps and Longswords +1? You only have a few thousand years 'til the Snarl eats this world, you can't exactly sit on your hands and just hope some ruins crop up organically.
    I agree with this. And from what we've been told it would seem the gods had a pretty specific theme in mind when they created this and every other world, so letting mortals build up what they envisioned almost from scratch doesn't sound very plausible to me unless there's, like, a huge degree of determinism at work.
    Last edited by hrožila; 2019-08-22 at 02:43 PM.
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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by hrožila View Post
    I agree with this. And from what we've been told it would seem the gods had a pretty specific theme in mind when they created this and every other world, so letting mortals build up what they envisioned almost from scratch doesn't sound very plausible to me unless there's, like, a huge degree of determinism at work.
    I think of it as sort of like Dwarf Fortress; the base world and its "historical" aspects are procedurally generated from parameters (which in this case, the gods take turns defining); and once the world is built, the mortals are given run of the place (with the gods having specific interactions with it).

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    I think of it as sort of like Dwarf Fortress; the base world and its "historical" aspects are procedurally generated from parameters (which in this case, the gods take turns defining); and once the world is built, the mortals are given run of the place (with the gods having specific interactions with it).
    And, in the case of present OotSworld, when the mortals "awake", they know they have a "backstory" and "ancient tales" premade by the gods. They are self-aware, after all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    The one thing I do feel fairly confident of is that they're all level 1, at least the ones that have class HD rather than racial HD. Otherwise, they wouldn't need to kill "monsters" like goblinoids in order to level up. Which brings up another interesting question - do they all start off as commoners, or do the gods assign a class to all the level 1 humanoids? Neither seems particularly more likely than the other.
    I'd imagine that they'd have a field of people of varying intended "skillsets". In some worlds, this manifests as classes, in others it manifests as them having a surprisingly good knack for their job.
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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    I think of it as sort of like Dwarf Fortress; the base world and its "historical" aspects are procedurally generated from parameters (which in this case, the gods take turns defining); and once the world is built, the mortals are given run of the place (with the gods having specific interactions with it).
    Yes, I agree.
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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    I think Mr Burlew probably didn't think that far into it.
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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by thereaper View Post
    I think Mr Burlew probably didn't think that far into it.
    Can the gods roll on a chart to determine how true this is?

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by Snails View Post
    Can the gods roll on a chart to determine how true this is?
    Let me see...

    *rolls a d20*

    Yes, but only because they got a circumstance bonus as Gary Gygax is up there with them.

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    n remember, th frst humans were in first edition....
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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    I think of it as sort of like Dwarf Fortress; the base world and its "historical" aspects are procedurally generated from parameters (which in this case, the gods take turns defining); and once the world is built, the mortals are given run of the place (with the gods having specific interactions with it).
    Is this the "they are created when we start, but they have always been there" mindset?
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    Is this the "they are created when we start, but they have always been there" mindset?
    Kind of! The world generation models what the gods imagine mortals might do to the world that the gods care about; but mortals aren't constrained to a god's imagination (which is why the gods are entertained by them, all the surprises at what do and come up with). So you end up with ruins that look like what the gods imagine ruins would look like, without anything existing beforehand to have been ruined and without necessarily resembling what mortals' ruins are actually like.

    Kinda like the abandoned mineshafts in Minecraft; which aren't even created until a player is close enough to the chunk of land they're in, even though no in-game entity other than players are truly capable of making those kinds of linear tunnels.

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Kinda like the abandoned mineshafts in Minecraft; which aren't even created until a player is close enough to the chunk of land they're in, even though no in-game entity other than players are truly capable of making those kinds of linear tunnels.
    Not quite the same thing, because both the chunk of land and any mineshafts within it are generated when a player gets close--the land doesn't exist first, then mineshafts get added later.

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Was just reminded of one of my favorite quotes from Wreck-It Ralph: "It's not her fault. She was programmed with a very tragic backstory". That quote probably wouldn't be out of place in OotS, as long as you drop the programming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    Let me see...

    *rolls a d20*

    Yes, but only because they got a circumstance bonus as Gary Gygax is up there with them.
    Technically we have no confirmation of that, he was just passing through deciding where to stay after all. Might have ended up in the Feywild or something.

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by Khay View Post
    We know that a lot of things we think of as abstractions are literally real in the Stickiverse. Like hit points, or experience levels. Presumably, "backstories" or "prologues" would be another abstraction-except-real. If you want an adventure world, your adventurers need to have dungeons they can delve into. So why not seed the lands with some "ancient" "ruins" full of marginally lethal traps and Longswords +1? You only have a few thousand years 'til the Snarl eats this world, you can't exactly sit on your hands and just hope some ruins crop up organically.
    That may only apply to Stickverse
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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Not quite the same thing, because both the chunk of land and any mineshafts within it are generated when a player gets close--the land doesn't exist first, then mineshafts get added later.
    Yes, that would be the heavy part of the "kinda".

    But since that's a boring answer....What does "exist" mean? If a tree falls in a forest with no one around to hear it, does it make a sound? If you had never seen a post by me, would I never have been? If a chunk's exact content before anyone can interact with it is predetermined, does it not exist before it's detected? Quasi-random question hinting at a subjective view of an objective reality?

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    In medias res. "In the middle of things."

    Because "in middles things" would make no sense.

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Yes, that would be the heavy part of the "kinda".

    But since that's a boring answer....What does "exist" mean? If a tree falls in a forest with no one around to hear it, does it make a sound? If you had never seen a post by me, would I never have been? If a chunk's exact content before anyone can interact with it is predetermined, does it not exist before it's detected? Quasi-random question hinting at a subjective view of an objective reality?
    Do we need to know something is there for it to exist? No. Electrons are seemingly non-existent, and they are important for. Well. Everything.
    However, many things - people, places, fine cheeses - we know probably exist somewhere, and they may well exist, but unless they are made important we would not know nor care about their existence.
    Ultimately, while entities, objects and things can exist without our recognition, an overly roundabout way of thinking may suggest that ideas have no importance or relevance unless they occur to us, physically or otherwise.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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    Default Re: First generation in a world built by gods...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Yes, that would be the heavy part of the "kinda".

    But since that's a boring answer....What does "exist" mean? If a tree falls in a forest with no one around to hear it, does it make a sound? If you had never seen a post by me, would I never have been? If a chunk's exact content before anyone can interact with it is predetermined, does it not exist before it's detected? Quasi-random question hinting at a subjective view of an objective reality?
    Well in the case of minecraft, the contents of the chunk actually aren't determined necessarily. If you update editions, install mods that affect world generation or perhaps change the seed somehow then when the chunk generates it will be different.

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