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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGirl

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    Jan 2011
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    Default Re: Chaotic Evil without Being the Joker

    I can think of two decent examples of 'chaotic evil' that aren't 'the joker'

    Trevor from Grand Theft Auto 5: Trevor was conceived of by the developers as a character who acts the way players do when they play a GTA game. He's wantonly destructive and murderous. He is seen as a monster and expects to be seen as a monster. That said, he values the few people who don't immediately harass him based on his appearance and odor. He'll go far out of his way on side quests and main quests for anyone who gives him the time of day and treats him like a normal person.

    Rick from Rick and Morty: It's possible to read Rick's deep nihilism as Chaotic Evil. The universe is frighteningly infinite. Cosmic power destroys trillions of lives a second and Rick doesn't have a problem using that power himself. He would prefer to just laze around drunk, but any time SCIENCE can solve a problem for him, he'll do it without concern of consequences/ collateral damage. There are other universes where things are worse/ perfect already, so why not do the amazingly crazy. All that said, he still just enjoys having people to talk to and do stuff with/for even if it seems pointless in the big picture.

    I think any level of 'The world is crap already and I don't care if I make it worse' can be 'Chaotic Evil'. It's entirely possible to half-donkey this philosophy in the same way people can be just kinda good.
    Quote Originally Posted by No brains View Post
    But as we've agreed, sometimes the real power was the friends we made along the way, including the DM. I wish I could go on more articulate rants about how I'm grateful for DMs putting in the effort on a hard job even when it isn't perfect.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Re: Chaotic Evil without Being the Joker

    I suppose the big thing about Chaotic Evil is that it is the corruption of an attitude of pure freedom by the selfishness that only YOUR freedom matters, or it is the adulteration of pure indifferent or malicious self-centeredness with the sense that nothing, not even you, should have to maintain control over your actions.

    Chaotic Evil is unrestrained cruelty. It loses a lot of the potential for impersonal evil by virtue of being more about the disruptive power thereof. It can be more dangerous than unadulterated evil, but in the same way that a crashing plane is more dangerous than a bomber on a precision mission. It is also more predictable than pure chaos, because it is a slave to its own vices.

    Undisciplined, savage, or impulsive malice characterize Chaotic Evil.

    The depraved hunters after "the most dangerous game" are chaotic evil. The "angel of mercy" nurse who "puts people out of their misery" is chaotic evil. The con man who takes because he enjoys the con itself, and never has a moment of true empathy for his victims as he takes and hurts for his own amusement is chaotic evil. The judge on the take who reinterprets the law to benefit himself every time he adjudicates is chaotic and likely evil due to his callous disregard for who gets hurt in the process. The businessman who sacrifices everything, including his company's profits, just to make his business practices hurt people or causes he dislikes ("Stop making more than one elevator button per rainforest tree you cut down! We're not being nearly wasteful enough to hurt Captain Planet!") is chaotic evil.

    Anybody who assumes the rules don't apply to him due to his position or influence, or just because he can get away with things, and uses the freedom that affords him to hurt others is Chaotic Evil.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Âmesang's Avatar

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    d20 Re: Chaotic Evil without Being the Joker

    My attempt at "Chaotic Evil" was an extreme form of being vain, conceited, selfish, self-centered, and egotistical — the ultimate expression of "Me! Me! Me!" The character saw everyone else as nothing more than tools to be used, pawns to be manipulated, toys to be played with…

    …and that last notion is how she was able to "play nice" with the party and defend them in combat — after all, she wouldn't want her favorite toys to break so soon, now would she?
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  4. - Top - End - #34
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Aug 2010
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    Bamako

    Default Re: Chaotic Evil without Being the Joker

    Quote Originally Posted by Âmesang View Post
    My attempt at "Chaotic Evil" was an extreme form of being vain, conceited, selfish, self-centered, and egotistical — the ultimate expression of "Me! Me! Me!" The character saw everyone else as nothing more than tools to be used, pawns to be manipulated, toys to be played with…

    …and that last notion is how she was able to "play nice" with the party and defend them in combat — after all, she wouldn't want her favorite toys to break so soon, now would she?
    That's similar to a literary character (and also movie character) I had in mind for this, Marquise Isabelle de Merteuil, of Liaisons Dangereuses. She also shows how such a character can function by presenting a wholesome facade while going against society's norms and rules in secret. Deception and manipulation in the service of petty vengeance and self-gratification.

    For another archetype that is somewhat outside the "typical" CE character, one could go with a dispassionate scientist who only cares for his research no matter what moral or ethical rules he has to break and who chafes at the restrictions that polite society tries to impose on him.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Jul 2005
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    Over there!
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    Default Re: Chaotic Evil without Being the Joker

    I've recently caught up with a show that has given me an interesting perspective on a CE character who is CE in large part via their innocence.

    Let me explain, but in a spoiler for Steven Universe all the way to the movie.

    Spoiler
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    Pink Diamond/Rose quartz.

    When we see her in flashbacks she literally only cares for herself, her own whims and desires and treats even the most loyal and dedicated of her servants as disposable objects that she can use and discard at will.

    She wants a colony not because she wants to be leader of because she wants to strengthen her people, but because her sisters have them and she doesn't.

    She sets up a zoo for humans because she finds them interesting and want so keep some of them around and, even when she decides that she doesn't like what the other diamonds are doing and that she wants to preserve organic life, she still wants to do it because the colony is hers and she finds the humans interesting. Note, finding something interesting does not mean having empathy for it. She then engages in a plan that allows her to play the hero, doesn't involve helping those she has already hurt (you could argue that she can't help the humans in the zoo but why not go back for Spirel at least?) and emotionally crippling her most loyal retainer, because it is what she wants and she never stops to consider others.

    She then goes on to imprison a friend that disagrees with her and doesn't even tell their friends what happened, letting them think Bismuth is dead, and I do feel that while she is fascinated by Garnet it is again as a thing to use and a novelty, she doesn't care about Garnet because of what matters to Garnet, she cares about Garnet because of what Garnet means for her.

    Her attitude is ultimately based in never having been exposed to the idea what other beings have life or value inherent to themselves and separate from her. She is a spoiled kid that, I would argue even until she meets Greg, views others as things. Nice things, things that she now realises can be taken away from her and broken irreparably, but still things, inherently less important than her. It is made clear that she has messed around with humans a number of times over the millennia, but always as a fling, a pleasant diversion. I think Greg may be the first ever person who she cared about more than herself or beyond their utility (in large part because Greg really has no utility).
    GNU Terry Pratchett

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