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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    trying to figure out a way to increase bab for feat requirements, such as to allow a wizard to get improved Precise Shot or other such times when your level/HD are higher than your bab.

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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Gain levels! I know, cheesey, but it works!
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    Coventry's Avatar

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryabede View Post
    trying to figure out a way to increase bab for feat requirements, such as to allow a wizard to get improved Precise Shot or other such times when your level/HD are higher than your bab.
    Mike is correct. There are no alternatives except gaining levels or racial hit dice.

    Well, there is the optional system of gaining fractional BAB, so that a Wizard 1/Rogue 1 (0.5 +0.75) counts as BAB +1 instead of +0, but that is dependent upon the DM.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    shame, ty. guess ill start seeing what i can do to rework the build.

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    So then the question becomes whether there is a full bab prestige class that advances full caster levels that one can get into without losing caster levels to meet the prerequisites. Or something close. Abjurant Champion can work but it takes a while to get into it from just Wizard.
    Last edited by Particle_Man; 2019-08-19 at 08:16 PM.

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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    The way I'm reading skillful weapon enchantment, it should work. Only for that weapon, and only melee weapons. So no to Improved Precise Shot sadly. If it were great cleave you want I'd argue it worked.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Quote Originally Posted by Particle_Man View Post
    So then the question becomes whether there is a full ban prestige class that advances full caster levels that one can get into without losing caster levels to meet the prerequisites. Or something close.
    Actually spent a lot of time looking for this*. Unfortunately there isn't that I've been able to find in the 3e/3.5 first party stuff, unless you use questionable methods. Closest is Eldritch Knight, but it still requires all Martial Weapons to be proficient by the rules, so you're going to lose out on a level to get fighter or something similar, plus one at level 1. That brings you to at most 18 levels of casting.

    There IS a way to cheat your way in to EK early if your DM lets you use the "story-based prerequisite" option in UA, but this is a long-shot to say the least. However, an Elf caster could potentially do it, since they have multiple free weapon proficiencies to start and could thus prove well in three weapon-based duels with a bit of luck and magical aid.

    Spellsword is similar. It's a half-caster, but luckily starts with one level for you, and you thus could dip into it to get the armor penalty negation, a BAB, and a single level; however, you need BAB +4 and all those proficiencies, so you're still grabbing a full BAB level somewhere.

    *I was trying to find a way to make a Warlock who could get both all Disciple of Mephistopheles 10 and Hellfire Warlock by 20th level. The only way I could do it required the aforementioned "Storybased Prerequisite" with EK - you cheat on the spellcasting with Invocations and a feat or two, take Elf to get some weapon proficiencies for the archery and sword tests and get into EK as your fifth through seventh to get the BAB up for the DoM requisites while advancing your warlock powers JUST enough to get the necessary Invocation, all by 7th level. Then you can grab DoM for a few levels until you have enough Knowledge (Planes) to get Hellfire, take that for three levels, and finish off Disciple. But, obviously, it's hella cheesy and not street legal.
    Last edited by EndlessKng; 2019-08-19 at 08:37 PM.

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    Imp

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Ask your GM if temporarily having high BaB counts for meeting feat requirements (and a follow up on what happens when you lose the requirements). If the ruling is lenient, persist Divine Power to set BaB=HD.
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Gestalt could do it.

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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    A kensai cohort or hired npc can increase your BAB for limited amount of time. But it does increase your BAB so should help for early entry shenanigans.

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    Ursus Spelaeus's Avatar

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessKng View Post
    Actually spent a lot of time looking for this*. Unfortunately there isn't that I've been able to find in the 3e/3.5 first party stuff, unless you use questionable methods. Closest is Eldritch Knight, but it still requires all Martial Weapons to be proficient by the rules, so you're going to lose out on a level to get fighter or something similar, plus one at level 1. That brings you to at most 18 levels of casting.
    You could always take some kind of LA+0 Outsider race, like a savage progression Aasimar, or those frog guys from Planar Handbook. That will get you your martial weapons.

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    Griffon

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    You could increase your BAB through lycanthropy, it would severely gimp your xp gains but it's a clean-ish way of qualifying for most things above your pay grade.

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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryabede View Post
    trying to figure out a way to increase bab for feat requirements, such as to allow a wizard to get improved Precise Shot or other such times when your level/HD are higher than your bab.
    If PGtF is allowed, take the Militia feat at 1st level, gives you proficiency with all martial weapons. That will help you jump into Eldritch Knight and you only lose the 1st level spellcasting progression. Hopefully fractional progressions are the way your game goes.

    There's also a wizard variant in UA that gives you fighter bonus feats instead of the wizard bonus feats.

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    There is an exploit some people allow with Bardic Music (Inspire Greatness) that boosts HD by 2. If you get a Bard that can keep the music going 24/7 (Warforged etc.), the bonus HD persist long enough to select feat and otherwise help in meeting reqs.

    Definitely requires DM approval, at least IMHO.

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    I think there are some third party classes that get +25 BAB in 20 levels.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    As is typical of 3.x, the limits of martial classes are harder to circumvent than the limits of casters, and BAB is the quintessential example. To the best of my knowledge, nothing (official) *ever* allows any character to truly, permanently increase BAB without increasing HD. So the only way to achieve what you want is to pick up casting PrCs that have full BAB. Abjurant Champion, and the first level of Spellblade, are the only ways I can recall off the top of my head that offer full BAB and full CL. Most everything else drops at least one CL (or one BAB) for the first level, though fractional BAB might help (since you could take an odd number of Wizard levels). If you're willing to consider that, then Knight Phantom (a strictly-superior version of the Eldritch Knight) and some other options become valid.

    But yeah. There are no feats, augmentations, or other such things that actually increase your BAB in 3.5e. You might, MAYBE, justify a super long duration BAB-replacement spell (transformation or the like) in PF, because of the "effects that have lasted longer than 24 hours are considered permanent and can meet qualifications" rule. I wouldn't let it fly if I were running, but it's not unprecedented.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    If you got 5 levels? Access to dragon for feats? Consider that Athas was liscenced 1rst party material? Ever thought that soulbow was cool?

    If so I've got an idea that works. Google Athasian soulknife. We will notice a full base attack prestige class that copies the soulknife. Now there is a dragon feat that adds 4 to your soulknife level for enhancement bonuses. If we go look at soulbow later we will see its enhancement bonus adds to base attack.

    Oddly I find this less cheesy than qualifying with a spell.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Found a third-party option that may or may not be up your alley. There's a prestige class in Ravenloft: Champions of Darkness called "Master of Curses." You have to be Lawful and have a Base Will Save of 5, as well as Sense Motive 4, Skill Focus (Sense Motive), and a Ravenloft feat called Voice of Wrath; you also need to cast Arcane or Divine Spells (but no level requirement on this...)

    With multiclassing between two high Will classes, you could get Will 5 by level 3, as well as two feats (as long as one has Sense Motive as a skill). In exchange, you get a class that has a Full Caster progression AND a full BAB over five levels. Might be worth a look if 3rd party stuff is allowed.

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    Troacctid's Avatar

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    There are ways to increase BAB temporarily. The 10th level ability of the war chanter prestige class is the most dramatic, as it's not limited by HD, but Tenser's transformation and divine power are right there in core.

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    Planetar

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Quote Originally Posted by ezekielraiden View Post
    As is typical of 3.x, the limits of martial classes are harder to circumvent than the limits of casters, and BAB is the quintessential example. To the best of my knowledge, nothing (official) *ever* allows any character to truly, permanently increase BAB without increasing HD. So the only way to achieve what you want is to pick up casting PrCs that have full BAB. Abjurant Champion, and the first level of Spellblade, are the only ways I can recall off the top of my head that offer full BAB and full CL. Most everything else drops at least one CL (or one BAB) for the first level, though fractional BAB might help (since you could take an odd number of Wizard levels). If you're willing to consider that, then Knight Phantom (a strictly-superior version of the Eldritch Knight) and some other options become valid.

    But yeah. There are no feats, augmentations, or other such things that actually increase your BAB in 3.5e. You might, MAYBE, justify a super long duration BAB-replacement spell (transformation or the like) in PF, because of the "effects that have lasted longer than 24 hours are considered permanent and can meet qualifications" rule. I wouldn't let it fly if I were running, but it's not unprecedented.
    There is a feat that is a sort of Divine Power 0.75, though: Frenzied Hunt, out of Dragon 342. Blow a turn attempt and your BAB equals your Character Level, +4 to DEX, may only make physical attacks, must seek out and kill non-allied creatures; lasts as long as (in essence) your turning check, and fatigue follows it. If you had a barbarian with no space for lots of cleric levels this would sync nicely with it, although as said it's to DEX, not STR. Temporarily, then, BAB goes up. As to whether your DM would buy that that's a qualifier...

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Quote Originally Posted by Coventry View Post
    Mike is correct. There are no alternatives except gaining levels or racial hit dice.

    Well, there is the optional system of gaining fractional BAB, so that a Wizard 1/Rogue 1 (0.5 +0.75) counts as BAB +1 instead of +0, but that is dependent upon the DM.
    TIL that this rule is not standard...

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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutr View Post
    If you got 5 levels? Access to dragon for feats? Consider that Athas was liscenced 1rst party material? Ever thought that soulbow was cool?

    If so I've got an idea that works. Google Athasian soulknife. We will notice a full base attack prestige class that copies the soulknife. Now there is a dragon feat that adds 4 to your soulknife level for enhancement bonuses. If we go look at soulbow later we will see its enhancement bonus adds to base attack.

    Oddly I find this less cheesy than qualifying with a spell.
    I'm after a bit more detail on this one. I found the Athasian Soulknife in Dragon Magazine #319, but it's based off the Soulknife which is a 3/4 BAB base class (and so is the Soulbow). I see that you can increase your character's base attack bonus with your Soulbow bonuses and your Soulknife bonuses which stack, but are you able to get over full BAB with this combo?
    Last edited by pabelfly; 2019-08-23 at 05:32 PM.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Well I just double checked but the idea does work with the base class as well. Practiced mind blade dragon 341: 4 levels soulknife 3 levels soulbow and x 1 level. Where x is a full base attack class has a 6 base attack and a +3 mindblade. The enhancement bonus from that is added to base attack so it would have a 9 base attack.

    X can be a 3/4 base attack class if fractional base attack is used. Honestly in my opinion this is less cheesy than a warchanter or casting long duration spells.

    This is more cheesy and what I was talking about. Athas.org was the license for dark sun during 3.5. They pdf printed a lot of prestige classes one being a full base attack soulknife, it's like 3.0 got it right the first time. Using that the feat and soulbow allows for more crazy than the above. If all 9 levels are taken with the feat(6 soulknife prestige +4 from feat and 3 levels soulbow) you end up with a +6 mindblade and 8 base attack. Total 14 base attack.

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    Troacctid's Avatar

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    I'm not seeing where the mind blade's enhancement bonus is added to BAB.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    http://archive.wizards.com/default.a...060403a&page=2

    Soulbow wrote, "likewise, these enhancement bonuses improve your soulnknife base attack bonus."

    Frankly it's weird cheesy and likely to get ignored, or nerfed. My reading, suggests enhancements gained before soulbow don't count but later one's do; which I hate, but it exists. I don't see it as worse than hiring an undead warchanter to follow you while you level up.

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutr View Post
    http://archive.wizards.com/default.a...060403a&page=2

    Soulbow wrote, "likewise, these enhancement bonuses improve your soulnknife base attack bonus."

    Frankly it's weird cheesy and likely to get ignored, or nerfed. My reading, suggests enhancements gained before soulbow don't count but later one's do; which I hate, but it exists. I don't see it as worse than hiring an undead warchanter to follow you while you level up.
    nice find.

    The other cheese is planar touchstone tied to the wereglade. For 9 hours, twice in total, you can be a werewolf, which grants 2 animal racial hit dice. If you play with videogame type level ups, you could count as 2 BAB more if you level up while a werewolf when choosing feats or prestige classes.

    Obviously, this is Theoretical Optimization, and highly likely to make people think negatively of you if you actually try it in real life.

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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutr View Post
    http://archive.wizards.com/default.a...060403a&page=2

    Soulbow wrote, "likewise, these enhancement bonuses improve your soulnknife base attack bonus."

    Frankly it's weird cheesy and likely to get ignored, or nerfed. My reading, suggests enhancements gained before soulbow don't count but later one's do; which I hate, but it exists. I don't see it as worse than hiring an undead warchanter to follow you while you level up.
    You do have the punishment of being a mindblade though.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Which is why I noted the Athas.org prestige class. It's perfectly decent as a prestige class.

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    Troacctid's Avatar

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    That's actually pretty interesting, but it looks like only the mind arrow enhancement bonus from soulbow would be added to BAB, not the total enhancement bonus of the mind blade. So it effectively just makes the class full BAB, but on a delay—e.g. you get +0 at 1st level, but +2 at 3rd.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: ways to increase bab for feat requirments

    Not my interpretation of the paragraph, but reasonable, and would then work in gestalt games.

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