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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodSnake'sCha View Post
    When I play a tank I play a Sorcadin (Hexsorcadin most of the time).

    I walk straight into the enemies smiting and if I can with spirit guardians/Bless and far step.

    I chase the enemy casters and make sure it will be hard for them to cast.

    Most of the time I get 8-12 enemies on me(trying to save the leader/caster).

    As a paladin it is hard to fail saves and I have a lot of HP(upcast Aid).
    Most of my characters look for a clock of displacement and +x shield/armor/weapon (I like warhammers).

    Nobody ignore the block of metal if he is at range and killing you friends while cursing your god.
    Precisely what I'm playing right now. A sorcadin.

    Like you, instead of making your AC low, make yourself a threat.
    Also like you, I love warhammers, although I dropped mine in favor of a Staff of Power, because that staff is insane.

    Plus, if you get really close to them, it's hard to simply bypass you and reach your allies. They can't just ignore that AoO, much less when you have Warcaster and can booming blade their ass. (I also dropped Booming Blade in favor of Greenflame Blade once I got Sentinel feat)

    One more thing, positioning. If you position yourself in a way the enemies have to pass through you to get to the squishier targets, you also won't need low AC to make enemies want to hit you.

    And lastly, your party members who can't tank thenselves should devise a way to make reaching them more troublesome. The rogue should be hiding, the bow user should be far away, maybe over a hill even, casters have plenty of spells to make them hard to reach if they have the concentration to spare, and even if they don't (Mirror Image, for example).
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakmala View Post
    Being a good tank is a combination of factors:

    1. Durability
    2. Tempting Target
    3. Dangerous to Ignore


    My personal favorite formula for this, that can be achieved as early as Level 4 [with a Variant Human] is a Barbarian with GWM and Sentinel.

    • Reckless Attack: "Hey, this guy is really easy to hit. I like when my attacks hit!"
    • Great Weapon Master: "Hey, this guy's attacks really hurt! I want that to stop!"
    • Sentinel: "Every time I try to move away from this guy or attack his ally instead, I get hurt. I might as well just attack him instead."
    This is the definition of a tank. You have to deal with it, its easy to hit, and all the weapon damage is halved. And the enemy casters must now deal with this tank with magical means.

    And now the rogue can sneak attack with impunity, the paladin can dump shield of faith and concentrate on a smite spell, the party caster can forgo a defensive spell in favor of offense.

    The barbarian is very tough to take out and tough to ignore

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze View Post
    Don't be too harsh on GMs running "dumb" enemies using effective tactics, after all many Int 8 PCs use brutally efficient team tactics.
    Certainly not doing that. Just stating what I do with things that cannot identify a mage or cleric.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    ...
    The fact of the matter is, almost everything in D&D land is smart enough to employ decent tactics.
    I strongly disagree. Most things cannot identify a mage/cleric in the party and know that they should be the primary target.

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    Even wolves don't have hunting strategies that reduce to "attack nearest thing."

    That orc with 7 Int? They possess instincts honed by a lifetime of warfare, and were trained as a soldier in a battle-hardened warrior society, taught tried and true strategies developed over generations of trial and error in battle. They know what a spellcaster is and why it matters as surely as any modern soldier can recognize a tank, sniper, grenade, or artillery emplacement and has at least some idea of the correct way to respond.

    A low intelligence score is not a good excuse to play creatures like badly programmed videogame zombies.
    Wolves cannot identify a mage and single them out as the most dangerous, targeting them first. That's not something wolves do in the slightest.

    You and I disagree on the amount of training an orc has. Orcs are certainly not seasoned veterans of war. They only have 2 HD.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonslayer666 View Post
    Wolves cannot identify a mage and single them out as the most dangerous, targeting them first. That's not something wolves do in the slightest.
    As Doug Lampert pointed out upthread, some wild animals can recognize human weaponry (or even just "types of humans resembling other humans who are dangerous kinds of human") and will change their behavior towards those humans accordingly. Additionally, avoiding stronger members of the herd and going for a target that looks like it'll go down more easily first is a common tactic of many predator species. They certainly can tell a difference between big musclebound screaming axe man and skinny robe man, even if you assume that they'd have no concept of magical threats despite undergoing natural selection in a world lousy with the stuff.

    Also, dogs who have never seen a gun have been known to react to people wielding one. It's not a simple matter of knowing how a gun operates, but being able to sense something's wrong by other means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonslayer666 View Post
    You and I disagree on the amount of training an orc has. Orcs are certainly not seasoned veterans of war. They only have 2 HD.
    Irrelevant to the point. A soldier doesn't need to be a "seasoned veteran" to do any of the things listed. Simply being a member of the culture is sufficient. You cannot have a surviving warrior culture that does not have a basic awareness of the key elements of war.

    This is less of an "advanced tactic" than learning proper edge alignment for swinging a blade.

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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonslayer666 View Post
    Wolves cannot identify a mage and single them out as the most dangerous, targeting them first. That's not something wolves do in the slightest.

    You and I disagree on the amount of training an orc has. Orcs are certainly not seasoned veterans of war. They only have 2 HD.
    Wolves can tell who is not wearing armor, and among that group who seems the least physically capable of defending themselves, though. I would forgive them for going after a monk over a wizard, but a large enough group might have two of their pack engage the barbarian, possibly even being wary about it (dodging), while the rest circle around to go after the weakest member.
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    Irrelevant to the point. A soldier doesn't need to be a "seasoned veteran" to do any of the things listed. Simply being a member of the culture is sufficient. You cannot have a surviving warrior culture that does not have a basic awareness of the key elements of war.

    This is less of an "advanced tactic" than learning proper edge alignment for swinging a blade.
    So you disagree that HD can represent experience? I do, and I think that's very relevant.

    Well, at least we agree they are not trained now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus View Post
    Wolves can tell who is not wearing armor, and among that group who seems the least physically capable of defending themselves, though. I would forgive them for going after a monk over a wizard, but a large enough group might have two of their pack engage the barbarian, possibly even being wary about it (dodging), while the rest circle around to go after the weakest member.
    No, wolves have absolutely no concept of wearing armor. They can identify the weak and the slow, and the big and strong.
    Mages don't gave to be small, and barbarians don't have to be big.
    Last edited by Demonslayer666; 2019-08-27 at 11:17 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonslayer666 View Post
    So you disagree that HD can represent experience?
    What?

    I made no comment about HD, and the question of whether they're a "seasoned veteran" or not is irrelevant, because we're not talking about an advanced tactic. I would expect any member of a warrior class to have at least some idea of how to assess threats, just as surely as I would expect them to have some idea how to swing a sword. If they've got martial weapon proficiency, I would expect them to have some idea of what warfare is.

    A soldier in Eberron or Forgotten Realms or the like not knowing what magic is would be like a soldier in the real world having no concept of what a vehicle is.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Not to interrupt the age old argument of the paradox of DM meta of tactical options available to NPCs but I think the most important factor is that a DM is fairly consistent in how they deal with it.
    If orcs know that wizards are bad and tend to focus on them so the party starts to use that as a way to position the orcs to be flanked and over extended but suddenly other autonomous groups of orcs shift to different tactics is where I'd take issue.
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    Not to interrupt the age old argument of the paradox of DM meta of tactical options available to NPCs but I think the most important factor is that a DM is fairly consistent in how they deal with it.
    If orcs know that wizards are bad and tend to focus on them so the party starts to use that as a way to position the orcs to be flanked and over extended but suddenly other autonomous groups of orcs shift to different tactics is where I'd take issue.
    I personally make enemy tactics similar to the general tactics of TheMonstersKnow, such that the higher the general Int and Wis a particular creature has, the more they can discern between "big = bad target, small = good target" to more reactionary ones like "thing with stick thing make big boom, now it dangerous", while smarter beings begin to understand "That man holding a wand is definitely a wizard, kill him before he casts Fireball." However, that man holding a wand may have been a Goliath, so where the basic instinct enemies would have avoided him in the first example, now is being targeted by the strategists. Further, a leader can guide his dumber minions, which compounds the danger the leader represents on the battlefield. Additionally, enemies that have faced the party before know their general tactics, but of course if the next interaction happens after a few levels then the party may have switched it up since last encounter.

    But yes, a group of orcs that had no previous interaction with the party, should behave just as similarly as another group of orcs that had no previous interaction with the party. However, if one survivor of the first group met up with the second, he might have stories to tell...

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    I feel like you're putting words in my mouth. I made no comment about HD, and the question of whether they're a "seasoned veteran" or not is irrelevant, because we're not talking about an advanced tactic. I would expect any member of a warrior class to have at least some idea of how to assess threats, just as surely as I would expect them to have some idea how to swing a sword. If they've got martial weapon proficiency, I would expect them to have some idea of what warfare is.

    A soldier in Eberron or Forgotten Realms or the like not knowing what magic is would be like a soldier in the real world having no concept of what a vehicle is.
    I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. You said irrelevant without addressing it specifically. I assumed you meant me pointing out that they had low HD because that was the last thing I mentioned.

    Orcs experience with fighting adventurers should be extremely limited, but maybe that's just how I run my games. Heroes are rare, and orcs are off on their own. Mages are not anywhere near common. A common orc's experience with any other races should be limited to raids on undefended villages on the outskirts of civilization. The common orc is not one that has survived multiple engagements with the other races. And even if by chance they had survived one or two, it would not be against mages, only common foot soldiers. I can't justify a common orc being tactical at all against specific character classes. I feel like they would seriously underestimate a mage's ability, and then overreact once they saw it.

    But like I said, that's my take on how orcs operate.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonslayer666 View Post
    I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. You said irrelevant without addressing it specifically. I assumed you meant me pointing out that they had low HD because that was the last thing I mentioned.

    Orcs experience with fighting adventurers should be extremely limited, but maybe that's just how I run my games. Heroes are rare, and orcs are off on their own. Mages are not anywhere near common. A common orc's experience with any other races should be limited to raids on undefended villages on the outskirts of civilization. The common orc is not one that has survived multiple engagements with the other races. And even if by chance they had survived one or two, it would not be against mages, only common foot soldiers. I can't justify a common orc being tactical at all against specific character classes. I feel like they would seriously underestimate a mage's ability, and then overreact once they saw it.

    But like I said, that's my take on how orcs operate.
    Sounds more campaign/world specific as far as how your orcs operate. Some worlds has magic as being so common that even the village idiot could identify a mage and mages are as common as foot soldiers.

    Other worlds like yours would have mages be so rare that just seeing one would be straight up mystical.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stone-Ears View Post
    Sounds more campaign/world specific as far as how your orcs operate. Some worlds has magic as being so common that even the village idiot could identify a mage and mages are as common as foot soldiers.

    Other worlds like yours would have mages be so rare that just seeing one would be straight up mystical.
    Agreed.

    I'd also add that magic being common would not be required in order for it to be well-known. It would just have to be important to the outcome of historical wars.

    Heck, even if a PC's magic is entirely unique, PCs will have to be wary of enemies adapting to their tactics as they gain notoriety, or if they face the same faction more than once, or the like.

    But let's get back to the main topic of the thread. Ultimately if your character relies on enemies being uninformed, unintelligent, or otherwise making a major tactical error, they are not an especially effective character overall.

    This is the primary difference between a tank and a turtle. A tank actively pressures foes and punishes them for their choices, regardless of who they choose to target. A turtle withdraws into their shell and prays for the "DM meta" to choose to target them.

    If you're not a mere turtle, you can play confidently at any table, regardless of the DM's targeting tendencies or the rarity of magic in the setting.

    More elaboration on this here.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonslayer666 View Post
    I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. You said irrelevant without addressing it specifically. I assumed you meant me pointing out that they had low HD because that was the last thing I mentioned.

    Orcs experience with fighting adventurers should be extremely limited, but maybe that's just how I run my games. Heroes are rare, and orcs are off on their own. Mages are not anywhere near common. A common orc's experience with any other races should be limited to raids on undefended villages on the outskirts of civilization. The common orc is not one that has survived multiple engagements with the other races. And even if by chance they had survived one or two, it would not be against mages, only common foot soldiers. I can't justify a common orc being tactical at all against specific character classes. I feel like they would seriously underestimate a mage's ability, and then overreact once they saw it.

    But like I said, that's my take on how orcs operate.
    Orc's are known for marauding and in settings like the Forgotten Realms are known to overtake populated settlements if proper defense isn't established. They are portrayed as formidable enemies despite their mechanical statistics. They're actually portrayed as fairly intelligent, known for scouting ahead of their raids and even in some rare cases, subterfuge.

    You might have heard of a fairly famous incident where Orc's overran Citadel Felbarr and drove the Dwarves who lived there out for over 250 years. Some Dwarves lived through that entire time, but for the Orc's it would mean that there could have been as few as 6 generations (and as many as 10 if we assume their average lifespan) born in that time. Orc's are incredibly short lived. I'd be shocked if in the 250 years that they held Citadel Felbarr that they never once saw a spellcaster to develop a strategy against. After the first time any sort of spellcaster, you can bet your booty that they taught every whelp from then on how to spot and deal with them.

    They learn quick (or die), they're ruthless and they're intelligent enough to avoid blatantly obvious losing battles. That is unless Elves are involved, apparently they have such a deep seeded and intrinsic hate for them that the little reason and self preservation instincts that they have is thrown out the window.

    tl;dr - The way you run Orc's is not wrong but assuming that it's the standard or telling someone that they "should" always act unintelligent is. Always remember that in a game where you shape the world you run that you're bound to run into some differences.
    Last edited by ProsecutorGodot; 2019-08-27 at 01:56 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    When talking tanks, I like to use the World of Warcraft meta for them, and let the listener decide for themselves what they want to actually accomplish.

    WoW has three tanking subclasses. Armor - classic paladin or fighter in plate, simply not being hit. Avoidance - either through magical trickery (Mirror Image, Blur/Displacement) or dodging (Dodge, High Dex). And Mitigation, think Barbarian damage reduction, Temp Hit Points, Lay on Hands, etc.

    Basically, the more of each you have, the better you'll survive the encounter. And that's classically what tanking in an RPG means. Now, with the advent of MMOs, especially group friendly ones, tanking has also taken on a role of party support, trying to grab aggro and keep things from beating on your teammates. Which, a lot of this thread has covered.

    I've re-incorporated Marking into my game. The Cavalier is the only class that has the mechanic, though Recklessly Attacking is basically 'reverse marking'. But I give Marking to Fighters and Paladins at 1st level, just so they can taunt enemies into attacking them.

    My players haven't really taken to using it, though... I think they just forget, and focus fire their opponents down anyway. I need to start having fights where the enemy is using Marking, so they can see how devastating it can be, when suddenly they're having Disadvantage on trying to hit squishies.
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot View Post

    1.) I understand that most illusions block line of sight, but most illusions also have a clause that physical interaction causes them to be revealed as illusions to you, walking through them is a way to do that without making an investigation check and is often the go to strategy for a DM who really doesn't want to deal with the illusion.

    2.) Minor nitpicks but you're also not going to be casting Fog Cloud or Darkness in the same turn as you would use your Familiar's sight because it takes an action to do so. It doesn't seem like a very effective use of your time to cast and concentrate on one spell and then use all subsequent actions to use your familiars sight...


    3.)I think skipping Cleric altogether, instead starting with a level in Fighter and taking Booming Blade for War Caster would be more effective. Since you're only relying on obscurement spells and illusions (that are usually only tricking an enemy for a turn or two at best) then you can be a Juggernaut with just the 13 int requirement to multiclass, your ward scales much better with your Wizard level than it does intelligence anyway. This opens up grappling as an option since your strength score is good.

    I can't deny that if you manage to get all of that properly set up it would be effective (although I personally think you're overselling it just a bit) but it sounds complicated and it uses up several spells to do something not all that impressive in my opinion.
    I apologize for bad mobile formatting in advance.

    As for 1: with minor illusion you can create the illusion of a solid object that surrounds a square occupied by an ally (or some openings such as bars/windows/murderholes). In this case, the enemy can't move through the illusion because the space is occupied and must either investigate or try to attack through it without being able to see, thus incurring disadvantage. It also completely stops some spells and abilities that target "one creature you can see" (beholders eye rays for instance), so an enemy using those abilities must choose a different target or spend their action doing something that interacts with the illusion.

    2.) I was going to point out that familiar's sight last until you end it, but when I reread the card I noticed that is in fact only one turn. So while I did use this in conjunction with a hex blade who had devil's sight to completely trivialize an encounter, I was also apparently cheating.

    3.) I would definitely choose taking Int to 20 just because Wizard spells are so good. You can still do fine with shillelagh and booming blade or even a rapier if you went dexterity. You probably aren't spending your actions on melee past 6th level very often, anyway. Personally, I just prefer wisdom as a secondary for flavor reasons and because wisdom saving throw effects are more debilitating.

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodshed343 View Post
    I apologize for bad mobile formatting in advance.

    As for 1: with minor illusion you can create the illusion of a solid object that surrounds a square occupied by an ally (or some openings such as bars/windows/murderholes). In this case, the enemy can't move through the illusion because the space is occupied and must either investigate or try to attack through it without being able to see, thus incurring disadvantage. It also completely stops some spells and abilities that target "one creature you can see" (beholders eye rays for instance), so an enemy using those abilities must choose a different target or spend their action doing something that interacts with the illusion.

    2.) I was going to point out that familiar's sight last until you end it, but when I reread the card I noticed that is in fact only one turn. So while I did use this in conjunction with a hex blade who had devil's sight to completely trivialize an encounter, I was also apparently cheating.

    3.) I would definitely choose taking Int to 20 just because Wizard spells are so good. You can still do fine with shillelagh and booming blade or even a rapier if you went dexterity. You probably aren't spending your actions on melee past 6th level very often, anyway. Personally, I just prefer wisdom as a secondary for flavor reasons and because wisdom saving throw effects are more debilitating.
    1) I think it's a pretty gamey conclusion to say that they simply "aren't allowed" to move into the square because it's occupied. From a purely rules standpoint, this is technically true, but from a game realism standpoint the enemy (a) has no idea that the box is definitely occupied and (b) that since it is they're unable to even attempt walking through it. Attempting to advance into that square and meeting resistance would also fulfill the requirement of physically interacting with the illusion.

    I understand that this form of interacting with illusions could be considered metagaming on the DM's side but that's my point in this, that illusions run into several issues with how effective they are from table to table. Neither point of view is definitively wrong, it just depends on what type of table you're at.

    Minor nitpick, bringing up something I said before, creating cover with minor illusion is certainly an option but remember that just because medium creatures occupy a 5ft space on a grid doesn't mean they are all 5ft and under. In many cases, creating that 5ft cube to hide an ally in will result in their head poking out of whatever object you created to obscure them unless they've dropped prone inside of it. This is one of those cases where the "apparently throwaway" part of character creation in choosing your height has a meaningful impact on the mechanics.

    2) Yes, it's an often overlooked aspect of the spell that I myself am guilty of overlooking. Many DM's (in my experience) are more than willing to ignore the time limit since in most cases it doesn't end up being an issue. At my own table I don't bother so much with the time limit during exploration but I also don't really allow the players to make use of their familiars sight effectively in combat. They suffer penalties when doing so as fighting in a battle while also having a quite literal out of body experience makes it difficult to fight normally.

    3)If your plan is to take primarily Wizard levels, absolutely I would recommend maxing intelligence. If you're only using utility Wizard spells that don't involve a save (abjuration spells like shield for example) then only having just enough to multiclass into and out of Wizard is probably fine.

    I recall a rather well put together Orc Diviner Wizard build that circulates around here pretty often that focuses on control and utility type spells with a negative (or only as high as 13) intelligence modifier. 5E has made the idiot savant wizard a viable build.
    Last edited by ProsecutorGodot; 2019-08-28 at 12:18 AM.

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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    What if you turtle but are so tanky that the DM is forced to pit against the party monsters of too high CR just to hurt you, which ultimately down the rest of the party leaving you to 1v1 the monster kill it yourself?

    I mean... you won, right? ...I'm asking for a friend.
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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteNutButter View Post
    What if you turtle but are so tanky that the DM is forced to pit against the party monsters of too high CR just to hurt you, which ultimately down the rest of the party leaving you to 1v1 the monster kill it yourself?

    I mean... you won, right? ...I'm asking for a friend.
    Thatís just bad DM plenty of stuff that doesnít target AC and can wreck your day. Still CR appropriate. Send some intellect devourer and a mindflayer or two and watch that super tank cower behind the flimsy wizard and use him/her as the tank.

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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gignere View Post
    Thatís just bad DM plenty of stuff that doesnít target AC and can wreck your day. Still CR appropriate. Send some intellect devourer and a mindflayer or two and watch that super tank cower behind the flimsy wizard and use him/her as the tank.
    Or just have my luck, every 3 hits on me in a 70 hours dungeon crawl was a crit.

    When I got cloak of displacement it was 1 in 6 hits.

    (I tried to crit fish with EA and vengeance Paladin channel divinity and hexblade curse. I also had 2 monks that stuned everything, I had 3 crits in the same 70 hours).

    It is still a joke, Dirk the paladin is the unkilable unlucky tank.
    Last edited by BloodSnake'sCha; 2019-08-28 at 07:02 AM.

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    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gignere View Post
    Thatís just bad DM plenty of stuff that doesnít target AC and can wreck your day. Still CR appropriate. Send some intellect devourer and a mindflayer or two and watch that super tank cower behind the flimsy wizard and use him/her as the tank.
    I mean it was blue text sarcasm... But I've seen this thing happening a lot with Paladins(hexadins/sorcadins) with max cha and silly saves all around, especially in AL where you can pretty easily pick up a cloak & ring of protection to boot. I've seen plenty of characters that are insanely hard to kill from all dimensions. If a character turtles on defense, the gap between their survivability and the rest of the party gets larger and larger over the course of levels to the point where by tier 3 they are nearly unkillable by anything that wouldn't destroy the rest of he party.

    I'm not recommending it. I'm just saying it can happen, and sometimes DMs overcompensate... but most of the time the turtle just does less.
    Want to Multiclass? I wrote the book on it:http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...classing-Guide
    Expect advice on the optimization rules you are breaking: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...r-Optimization
    I am an avid optimizer and love to give fire to the people... So long as they are restrained first so they have disadvantage on their dex saves.
    Feel free to PM me for one on one build advice.

  21. - Top - End - #81
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Jan 2019

    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Okay I'll go ahead and be "that guy". I like tanking with a warlock. Armor of Ag might be my favorite spell in the game. At lvl 5 you get 15 thp that equal 15 points of damage to your mele foes with no save. You're hit die is okay, you've got the same AC opportunities as a rogue, and if you go Fiend Pact there's even more defensive boons and spells. Also most DMs hate warlocks and want to prove that they suck, so you're getting targeted.

  22. - Top - End - #82
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    SD
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Warlush View Post
    Okay I'll go ahead and be "that guy". I like tanking with a warlock. Armor of Ag might be my favorite spell in the game. At lvl 5 you get 15 thp that equal 15 points of damage to your mele foes with no save. You're hit die is okay, you've got the same AC opportunities as a rogue, and if you go Fiend Pact there's even more defensive boons and spells. Also most DMs hate warlocks and want to prove that they suck, so you're getting targeted.
    Depending on the party makeup And DM meta any class can play the role of the front liner trying to draw as much fire as possible.
    What you're describing is what I like to call them masochist tank. I wish there were more spells that caused reactionary damage. Fire shield is great but it's a tad high for most players to ever get long term
    what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?

  23. - Top - End - #83
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2018

    Default Re: Should Tanks have low AC?

    Man, I just thought barbs tanked by grabbing people and everyone else did it by magically grabbing people.

    Seems a lot simpler than running into more dudes than you can grab and exploding
    Last edited by Nhorianscum; 2019-09-01 at 01:18 PM.

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