The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed - Coming in December and available for pre-order now
Page 6 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast
Results 151 to 180 of 316
  1. - Top - End - #151
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Flow of money is uninterrupted so I'd say that's largely academic. Again, assuming that Apollo Creed isn't the head honcho, which we have no indication of. Just saying that under your proposed super shady criminal enterprise where he's middle management, I doubt they'd care if employee #2576 for replaced with employee #6544.
    Structure hold when people don’t contest the structure. Again that’s how criminal and semi-criminal organisation works. They’re not democratic you go up the chain when the higher ups say you do.

    Also, that you do not like my answer does not mean I have not provided one.
    Oh, come on. Your answer was that he didn’t want imperial credits because he couldn’t use them to pay the armourer but at the same time you claim that he uses them for literally everything else. I’m sorry, but then asking why he wouldn’t take the credits to spend on something else, or even exchange them for flans that he could pay the armourer with is a perfectly legitimate question. Your answer doesn’t hold up.
    It also fails to explain why, if imperial credits are they usual manner of payment, Greef doesn’t bring that up or is in not in any way surprised that Mando would not accept them.
    It also fails to explain why, if Greef was legitimely unable to pay the Mandalorian in full in a currency he’d accept at the moment but at the able time able to pay his hunters in different currencies, he wouldn’t offer (or Mando wouldn’t demand him) to pay the rest later like business partners usually do.

    Instead of defending your position you claim that it would be suicidal for Greef to not be completely honest with Mando, despite the fact that Greef in the same scene misleads Mando by implying he’d be the only hunter after the Asset when he’s giving that assignment to every single bounty hunter who works for him.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law



    Forum Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  2. - Top - End - #152
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Structure hold when people don’t contest the structure. Again that’s how criminal and semi-criminal organisation works. They’re not democratic you go up the chain when the higher ups say you do.
    Black Sun seems to not mind. And, I have to stress yet again, there's no indication that Greef is not the top. Until you give any reason to believe that's the case, this is academic.

    Also, the Mando wanted an alternative then. He received the alternative then. He immediately spent the alternative then. He used credits at other points. We can see that he refused credits, got flan, and spent flan in a very short time period. He, to date, never again makes any distinction over currency. So yeah, I feel pretty confident saying "he wanted it then and got it then so it seems perfectly consistent."

    And, to cut 9ff "why not half and half," because Greef is, not to beat a dead horse, not a bank. He's not obligated to give you any denomination you want. If he has a little flan, he has it for a reason, and that reason is not to give convenient options. If Mando wants the flan, then he gets the half pay, because Greef is not a bank.
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: I'm the sun, I'm the sun
    Show
    Spoiler: I can move I can run
    Show
    Spoiler: But you'll never stop me burning
    Show

  3. - Top - End - #153
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Black Sun seems to not mind. And, I have to stress yet again, there's no indication that Greef is not the top. Until you give any reason to believe that's the case, this is academic.
    Granted but it's as academic as the idea that Mando is going to literally kill him over this. Greef is confident he can afford to rob Mando of some of his money because Mando needs him to find jobs but he doesn't need Mando to get his jobs done, as simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Also, the Mando wanted an alternative then. He received the alternative then. He immediately spent the alternative then. He used credits at other points.
    We don't know that. When we see him use his money it's too quick and out of focus to see if it's the same currency Greef offered him. It could literally be anything and given that he didn't want Imperial credits then, that's the one thing I'm confident it is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    We can see that he refused credits, got flan, and spent flan in a very short time period. He, to date, never again makes any distinction over currency. So yeah, I feel pretty confident saying "he wanted it then and got it then so it seems perfectly consistent."
    What's this about consistency?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    And, to cut 9ff "why not half and half," because Greef is, not to beat a dead horse, not a bank. He's not obligated to give you any denomination you want. If he has a little flan, he has it for a reason, and that reason is not to give convenient options. If Mando wants the flan, then he gets the half pay, because Greef is not a bank.
    Yeah, no. Mando did the job so Mando gets paid. Again Mando is surprised to see Imperial credits, that is not their usual arrangement. You can't change the currency agreed upon without consulting the other party and complain when they demand you pay them in something that's still going to be worth something in the near future. Besides Greef offered to give either the flans or the imperial credits to Mando so even if he had a use for them later on, he could use the other half of imperial credits for that. he is clearly willing to part with the flans. And again, again, he could offer to pay the rest later which is what honest people do.

    Greef may not be a bank but he is a businessman dealing in semi-legal operations with several currencies, he might as well be one (this is not an attack on bankers, this is a simple observation that his job involves managing large amounts of money in several currencies, like bankers).


    So once more, if Imperial credits are stable money why does the dialog states they're not? If Mando is willing to use them to pay people, why couldn't he exchange them to an actual bank to get flans to pay the armourer? And if Mando is usually paid in imperial credits why make a fuss this one time?

    I'm proposing that Imperial credits are quickly falling out of value, because as stated by Greef "they still spend" and as countered by Mando "the Empire is gone" and that's why he doesn't want them, that the money he uses in other scenes is not Imperial credits and that Greef scammed him because Greef is shady and Mando is broke enough to work for someone like that as long as still makes a reasonnable amount of money and Greef knows that. There's nothing extraodinary about any of these propositions.

    Your proposition as far as I can tell, is that Mando decided he was going to go to the armourer before he had an actul need to upgrade his armor (despite being broke) and so decided not to get paid in imperial credits because the armourer would'nt accept them (despite the fact that he would and that they both have the same opinion on getting imperial-stamped beskar and that he is shown to be extremely dedicated to his Tribe's traditions and not hypocritical in any way) but did not tell Greef beforehand, was surprised when Greef offrered him the currency he ussually pays him with, instisted on something else and took half-payment rather than any other way to convert the full payment into something the armourer would take. Meanwhile, Greef while being completely honest with Mando does not suggest to pay him fully later on and lies by omission about his next job offer. Do I have that right?
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law



    Forum Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  4. - Top - End - #154
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Granted but it's as academic as the idea that Mando is going to literally kill him over this.
    That's only academic if you think that Greef is robbing him. He is not. He is offering full price, or half price in a different currency. The full price currency still spends. It's legit money. If i hire you to do a job for a piece of fruit and then say "good job, here's an orange" and you want an apple but I only have half an apple, your choices are the orange or the half apple. You would not be getting half of each fruit, and I would not be robbing you out of fruit if you chose the half apple.

    Also, it's not fast and out of focus, the Mando clearly gives the flan he received to the armorer, right beside the Beskar billet.
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: I'm the sun, I'm the sun
    Show
    Spoiler: I can move I can run
    Show
    Spoiler: But you'll never stop me burning
    Show

  5. - Top - End - #155
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    That's only academic if you think that Greef is robbing him. He is not. He is offering full price, or half price in a different currency. The full price currency still spends. It's legit money.
    Is it, though? The Empire is gone, since a couplke of years by the look of things, so even if it still spends less and less people will be accepting it. It's doomed money at the very most. And, again, clearly not their usual arrangement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    If i hire you to do a job for a piece of fruit and then say "good job, here's an orange" and you want an apple but I only have half an apple, your choices are the orange or the half apple. You would not be getting half of each fruit, and I would not be robbing you out of fruit if you chose the half apple.
    Nope. I'd take the half apple and you'd owe me half an apple that I would take later when you have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Also, it's not fast and out of focus, the Mando clearly gives the flan he received to the armorer, right beside the Beskar billet.
    That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about paying the driver, tipping the waitress and paying the Tatooine lady. We don't see what money he uses then so your claim that uses imperial credits when not dealing with other Mandos is unfounded. As far as I can tell, this is the only scene when someone tries to pay anyone in Imperial credits and that earns them a full refusal and a quip so it's pretty clear that Imperial credits are not a trustworthy currency.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law



    Forum Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  6. - Top - End - #156
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Nope. I'd take the half apple and you'd owe me half an apple that I would take later when you have it.
    Imean, you could want that second half all you like, but your choice is A.) the orange or B.) the apple but you only get half. If I later on have another half an apple and you want it, then you don't get it, because you chose half and got half. Transaction is done, and I, much like Greef, am not a bank and are not holding an account for you. You could have gotten a whole fruit by choosing the orange. You could have grabbed the bounties and left entirely. What you could not do is realistically expect my to owe you half an apple because the offer wasn't "a whole apple but I'll owe you," it was "half an apple, end of sentence, if you just absolutely insist on not wanting the orange. And even that because I happen to have half an apple on me, which really should not be expected because I'm not a fruit store."
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: I'm the sun, I'm the sun
    Show
    Spoiler: I can move I can run
    Show
    Spoiler: But you'll never stop me burning
    Show

  7. - Top - End - #157
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    If that were the case why was that not mentionned during that conversation? The Mando’s stayed reason for not accepting the imperial credits is that they don’t spend because the Empire is gone. And he was willing to sit down with the imperials before they showed him any beskar.
    Because "Im part of a Mandalorian commune who don't like the empire on principle and want to minimize contact with them." is not something he wants to admit.

    And he was "willing" in as much as he was already there when he discovered they were imperial, and was about half a second away from shooting them all. He's very definitely only hearing them out due to his professionalism.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  8. - Top - End - #158
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Cikomyr's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Montreal
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Because "Im part of a Mandalorian commune who don't like the empire on principle and want to minimize contact with them." is not something he wants to admit.

    And he was "willing" in as much as he was already there when he discovered they were imperial, and was about half a second away from shooting them all. He's very definitely only hearing them out due to his professionalism.
    And Beskar

  9. - Top - End - #159
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Imean, you could want that second half all you like, but your choice is A.) the orange or B.) the apple but you only get half. If I later on have another half an apple and you want it, then you don't get it, because you chose half and got half. Transaction is done, and I, much like Greef, am not a bank and are not holding an account for you. You could have gotten a whole fruit by choosing the orange. You could have grabbed the bounties and left entirely. What you could not do is realistically expect my to owe you half an apple because the offer wasn't "a whole apple but I'll owe you," it was "half an apple, end of sentence, if you just absolutely insist on not wanting the orange. And even that because I happen to have half an apple on me, which really should not be expected because I'm not a fruit store."
    This is ridiculous, Peelee.
    For one why would you be the only one entitled to set the conditions and for a second do you seriously not realize that many businesses pay their employee late when they are temporarily short on cash? An employer owing an employee money is nothing novel and being indebted to someone is not reserved for banks.
    The agreement was on a set amount of money, Greef tried to weasel out by paying in a different currency than their usual agreement, one that he knows the Mandalorian will object to as worthless (since he insist they aren’t before Mando even argues). Mando would be perfectly in his right to demand Greef pay him in full in a currency that has value. He doesn’t because he realizes the power imbalance between the two is such that this ‘altered deal’ to paraphrase somebody else is the best he can do to make some money out of this (even if he had left with the targets, what would he do with them?). That Mando chose to take what he could salvage doesn’t mean that Greef wasn’t being unfair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Because "Im part of a Mandalorian commune who don't like the empire on principle and want to minimize contact with them." is not something he wants to admit.
    ‘I’m a Mandalorian, the Empire purged my people’ boom no admission of the Tribe’s existence.

    And he was "willing" in as much as he was already there when he discovered they were imperial, and was about half a second away from shooting them all. He's very definitely only hearing them out due to his professionalism.
    I never said he liked them, I said he was willing to work for them, people who will not work for someone on moral principles don’t hear them out, they leave.

    It would be one thing if he saw the Imperials, said no, turned away and then the client tells him he has beskar and then Mando goes back but that’s not what happened. Mando was willing to take their money, why would he be unwilling to use their currency?
    Hell, the issue with the beskar isn’t even that it was given to him by imperial, it’s that it was stolen from them by imperials who are offering it as payment as if it belonged to them.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law



    Forum Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  10. - Top - End - #160
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    This is ridiculous, Peelee.
    For one why would you be the only one entitled to set the conditions and for a second do you seriously not realize that many businesses pay their employee late when they are temporarily short on cash? An employer owing an employee money is nothing novel and being indebted to someone is not reserved for banks.
    The agreement was on a set amount of money, Greef tried to weasel out by paying in a different currency than their usual agreement, one that he knows the Mandalorian will object to as worthless (since he insist they aren’t before Mando even argues). Mando would be perfectly in his right to demand Greef pay him in full in a currency that has value. He doesn’t because he realizes the power imbalance between the two is such that this ‘altered deal’ to paraphrase somebody else is the best he can do to make some money out of this (even if he had left with the targets, what would he do with them?). That Mando chose to take what he could salvage doesn’t mean that Greef wasn’t being unfair.

    ‘I’m a Mandalorian, the Empire purged my people’ boom no admission of the Tribe’s existence.


    I never said he liked them, I said he was willing to work for them, people who will not work for someone on moral principles don’t hear them out, they leave.

    It would be one thing if he saw the Imperials, said no, turned away and then the client tells him he has beskar and then Mando goes back but that’s not what happened. Mando was willing to take their money, why would he be unwilling to use their currency?
    Hell, the issue with the beskar isn’t even that it was given to him by imperial, it’s that it was stolen from them by imperials who are offering it as payment as if it belonged to them.
    I think youre missing the point. Yes, he could have done things differently. But he didn't. The fact that there are alternative ways he could have expressed his feelings does not make the one that he did do somehow illegitimate. He doesn't like the imperials. He obviously, visibly doesn't like the imperials. Why are you trying to make it more complicated than it needs to be?
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  11. - Top - End - #161
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    There's a game of hot potato going on with Imperial credits. The Empire is no longer around to guarantee the value of its currency. They still have value because the minute someone refuses to acknowledge that value, their entire stash becomes worthless.

    Greef and the Mando both realize this. The flan is worth more than the credits in the long run because it will retain its value indefinitely.

    Also, Greef has a lot of 'hunters looking to take the Mando's place, all very hungry for opportunity. What's more, the Mando is taking all their work. If word gets around that he gouged his employee, his position actually rises, because he's taking from someone they're coming to hate. You can bet that Greef is cultivating exactly that attitude as well. I can easily imagine him apologetically telling the others that he can't offer them good bounties because the Mando has already taken them all.

    Greef also told the Mando that there was plenty of work, but that people didn't want to pay guild rates. This shows a transition taking place. The guild no longer has its monopoly on "asset retrieval." The fact that Greef isn't particularly distraught by this, and has been hiring his people to the Imperial remnant, shows that he isn't particularly loyal to the organization -- and may, in fact, be taking a bigger slice of the pie from these side jobs.

    The bounty hunters' guild is in an existential struggle right now, and one of the few things it has going for it is reputation. Taking out the Mando, even though he essentially did them a solid by burning Greef, is a big priority for them. They need to save face.

  12. - Top - End - #162
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    This is ridiculous, Peelee.
    For one why would you be the only one entitled to set the conditions and for a second do you seriously not realize that many businesses pay their employee late when they are temporarily short on cash?
    A.) I'm not the only one setting the conditions. You are free to say "no full apple, no bounties" and walk away. That didn't happen. Mando said, "I will accept the half offer of flan," if not in so many words.

    2.) Greef is not short on cash. Businesses are in no way obligated to pay me in Euros if I refuse the USD they offer. And in any event, it's Star Wars, not Star Civil Disputes Based On How Labor and Wage Practices Work IRL. And if you think that title is long, wait til you see the opening crawl!

    iii.) Everything Keltest said.
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: I'm the sun, I'm the sun
    Show
    Spoiler: I can move I can run
    Show
    Spoiler: But you'll never stop me burning
    Show

  13. - Top - End - #163
    Troll in the Playground
     
    druid91's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Lemuria
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    A.) I'm not the only one setting the conditions. You are free to say "no full apple, no bounties" and walk away. That didn't happen. Mando said, "I will accept the half offer of flan," if not in so many words.

    2.) Greef is not short on cash. Businesses are in no way obligated to pay me in Euros if I refuse the USD they offer. And in any event, it's Star Wars, not Star Civil Disputes Based On How Labor and Wage Practices Work IRL. And if you think that title is long, wait til you see the opening crawl!

    iii.) Everything Keltest said.
    There's also the fact that he outright says he's paying Tattooine Mechanic Woman in Imperial Credits. There's no such distinction in episode 4, but the fact that he pays Mechanic woman in 5 with Imperial Credits implies he has and had been spending imperial credits in past episodes.

    It could even be that he wasn't surprised at all and was leveraging his facelessness to attempt a con of Greef to get alternative currencies to pay the forgemaster.

    Greef even says "Cut out the Dramatics." So it's possibly not even the first time it's happened. Which would help to explain WHY he has the Flan to start with.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

    Torumekian knight Avatar by Licoot.

    Note to self: Never get involved in an ethics thread again...Especially if I'm defending the empire.

  14. - Top - End - #164
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    There's also the fact that he outright says he's paying Tattooine Mechanic Woman in Imperial Credits. There's no such distinction in episode 4, but the fact that he pays Mechanic woman in 5 with Imperial Credits implies he has and had been spending imperial credits in past episodes.

    It could even be that he wasn't surprised at all and was leveraging his facelessness to attempt a con of Greef to get alternative currencies to pay the forgemaster.

    Greef even says "Cut out the Dramatics." So it's possibly not even the first time it's happened. Which would help to explain WHY he has the Flan to start with.
    I agree on all points but the last one; as old as Greef is, and being (to the best of our knowledge) the head of the guild, it's likely that "take all the fobs back and leave" is about as old a trick in the book as "get up to walk out of the car dealership," and Greef is just tired of the dance.
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: I'm the sun, I'm the sun
    Show
    Spoiler: I can move I can run
    Show
    Spoiler: But you'll never stop me burning
    Show

  15. - Top - End - #165
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Leewei View Post
    Greef also told the Mando that there was plenty of work, but that people didn't want to pay guild rates. This shows a transition taking place. The guild no longer has its monopoly on "asset retrieval." The fact that Greef isn't particularly distraught by this, and has been hiring his people to the Imperial remnant, shows that he isn't particularly loyal to the organization -- and may, in fact, be taking a bigger slice of the pie from these side jobs.

    The bounty hunters' guild is in an existential struggle right now, and one of the few things it has going for it is reputation. Taking out the Mando, even though he essentially did them a solid by burning Greef, is a big priority for them. They need to save face.
    Somewhat ironically, the source of the Guild's lost monopoly was almost certainly the Empire, which made significant efforts to control 'the Fringe' of the galaxy and was also ruthless enough to simply have Stormtroopers shoot unauthorized hunters and the like. One of the important bits in Episode 5 is that it does reveal that Guild reputation is still a big deal for some reason (perhaps they have some kind of monopoly on the 'tracking fob' technology) and that there are big jobs out there, but they're high risk. The Mando is, when his blood's not up, surprisingly risk-averse. He was tried to avoid attacking the compound in episode 1 in favor of sneaking in but IG-11 forced his hand. He wanted to cut and run following the AT-ST reveal in episode 4, and he initially considered the job in episode 5 too dangerous. He really tries to play the cool professional, weighing the costs and benefits, but he keeps falling for emotional triggers.
    Resvier: a P6 homebrew setting

  16. - Top - End - #166
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    Somewhat ironically, the source of the Guild's lost monopoly was almost certainly the Empire, which made significant efforts to control 'the Fringe' of the galaxy and was also ruthless enough to simply have Stormtroopers shoot unauthorized hunters and the like. One of the important bits in Episode 5 is that it does reveal that Guild reputation is still a big deal for some reason (perhaps they have some kind of monopoly on the 'tracking fob' technology) and that there are big jobs out there, but they're high risk. The Mando is, when his blood's not up, surprisingly risk-averse. He was tried to avoid attacking the compound in episode 1 in favor of sneaking in but IG-11 forced his hand. He wanted to cut and run following the AT-ST reveal in episode 4, and he initially considered the job in episode 5 too dangerous. He really tries to play the cool professional, weighing the costs and benefits, but he keeps falling for emotional triggers.
    I got the impression that he was doing recon in chapter 1 and was unhappy that IG-11 didn't allow any time for that. As for the AT-ST, it was risk vs reward; the value in being hidden was outweighed by having to take down the walker. And he was right, too, in that doing so let him be found. Still got suckered into it, though, you're bang-on there.
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: I'm the sun, I'm the sun
    Show
    Spoiler: I can move I can run
    Show
    Spoiler: But you'll never stop me burning
    Show

  17. - Top - End - #167
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2009

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Spoiler: Episode 6
    Show

    I liked it - a good enjoyable episode, with some character and back story for our protaganist.

    Having said that I am left feeling that nothing has really progressed since episode 3 in any significant manner, if 4-6 had not happened than would I notice it in 7? I will have to find out next week I guess.

    Still a decent piece of entertainment.

  18. - Top - End - #168
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Finally! I've been waiting over two hours to talk about this one!

    Anyway, this was me the entire episode. Mostly because it was pretty predictable but I didn't care, it was still exactly what I wanted.

    Spoiler
    Show
    I really liked the change to horror-movie vibe. It really gave a sense of what it's like to be hunted by the Mandalorian, which is to say, sheer terror.

    Really disliked the stormtrooper joke. Fan theories that don't really line up with established canon shouldn't be made canon for a cheap laugh, IMO.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2019-12-13 at 09:10 AM.
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: I'm the sun, I'm the sun
    Show
    Spoiler: I can move I can run
    Show
    Spoiler: But you'll never stop me burning
    Show

  19. - Top - End - #169
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Spoiler: V6
    Show
    Meh. I didn't really like this one. The characters were very one-note. Psycho assassin/ex-girlfriend. Brute. Bully (who used to be Imperial, totally not gonna turn on the Mandlorian). Unfeeling robot.Another psycho assassin. Untrustworthy former partner. A backstory of the Mando is teased (used to work with Beard guy and date Xi'an) but we don't actually learn anything about him. Not really sure why Mando's former partner even wants him dead though.
    Also I'm disappointed in the lack of progression of the story, I had hoped that the prisoner was going to be linked to the Client and the Child in some way but noes.;
    Also, also Mando sparing the rest of the crew feels weird.

    Really liked the droid designs and the robot arm to wield a third gun as well.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law



    Forum Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  20. - Top - End - #170
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Spoiler: V6
    Show
    Meh. I didn't really like this one. The characters were very one-note. Psycho assassin/ex-girlfriend. Brute. Bully (who used to be Imperial, totally not gonna turn on the Mandlorian). Unfeeling robot.Another psycho assassin. Untrustworthy former partner. A backstory of the Mando is teased (used to work with Beard guy and date Xi'an) but we don't actually learn anything about him. Not really sure why Mando's former partner even wants him dead though.
    Also I'm disappointed in the lack of progression of the story, I had hoped that the prisoner was going to be linked to the Client and the Child in some way but noes.;
    Also, also Mando sparing the rest of the crew feels weird.

    Really liked the droid designs and the robot arm to wield a third gun as well.
    Spoiler
    Show
    I can see that. I didn't mind their being fairly flat, though, because this episode was basically Friday the 13th: the Star Wars version. It was super fun seeing what it would be like to be hunted by the Mandalorian. Could also call it the SW version of Alien.

    Though yeah, his commitment to not killing in general this episode seems pretty odd.
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: I'm the sun, I'm the sun
    Show
    Spoiler: I can move I can run
    Show
    Spoiler: But you'll never stop me burning
    Show

  21. - Top - End - #171
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    I have no real desire for everything to be tied back to the Child, or any plot around it. This is a world, a galaxy. I want to see the things in it. Last episode is more of the stuff I want in the series. This one was good, I like it in concept, just not in execution.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Kekkersboy

    My gaming and ideas channel.

  22. - Top - End - #172
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    I have no real desire for everything to be tied back to the Child, or any plot around it. This is a world, a galaxy. I want to see the things in it. Last episode is more of the stuff I want in the series. This one was good, I like it in concept, just not in execution.
    Given that a lot of shows now are one continuous plot line, where every episode furthers the plot and character arcs in various ways, having a show where the first three-4 episodes are done like that and the next 2-3 as "adventure of the week" style episodes, there is going to be some confusion over which route they're taking. Doctor Who, for example, was able to do adventure of the week with an overarching series plot line hidden in the background (much less subtly as seasons progressed), but it didn't have a good percent of the episodes specifically dedicated to that overarching plotline.
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: I'm the sun, I'm the sun
    Show
    Spoiler: I can move I can run
    Show
    Spoiler: But you'll never stop me burning
    Show

  23. - Top - End - #173
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    I really liked it.

    Spoiler: S01E06
    Show
    It doesn't really advance the overarching story (there barely is one at this point), but I'm completely fine with some (even most) episodes just being weekly "cool adventure + new characters" session if they are as entertaining as this one.

    I wish the fight scenes had lasted a little longer, but otherwise, a really enjoyable episode with some great horror movie scenes. The one with big red brute was ok, and the mandalorian stalking 3-guns guys was awesome... But I hoped to see a little more of the fight with the twi'lek lady. Her knife-throwing was cool and all, but too short.

    Definitely better than episode 5, IMO, which was a tad too forgettable and not very exciting.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2019-12-13 at 10:48 PM.
    Homebrew Stuff:

  24. - Top - End - #174
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    Though yeah, his commitment to not killing in general this episode seems pretty odd.
    Spoiler
    Show
    I think it's both a combination of his going soft and his recognition that it's basically him and The Child alone against the entire galaxy and he's trying to avoid drawing attention. He doesn't want 'the heat,' and this episode very clearly shows said heat at the end in the form of a trio of X-wings - which apparently quite seriously outgun the kind of marginally-function fringe ships the Mando and his general circle are operating. If the Mando kills the rest of the crew on the prison barge the NR (and by the way I must say I truly appreciate how The Mandalorian has embraced New Republic name in a way the ST never did) has no one to go after but him. So it makes sense for him to leave at least two of them alive (because two people can't spin a web of lies when interrogated separately). I am surprised he didn't off the Devaronian though, though it may be a plot point in the hopes of bringing the whole crew back at some later date.


    Given that a lot of shows now are one continuous plot line, where every episode furthers the plot and character arcs in various ways, having a show where the first three-4 episodes are done like that and the next 2-3 as "adventure of the week" style episodes, there is going to be some confusion over which route they're taking. Doctor Who, for example, was able to do adventure of the week with an overarching series plot line hidden in the background (much less subtly as seasons progressed), but it didn't have a good percent of the episodes specifically dedicated to that overarching plotline.
    I actually think the best point of comparison here is probably TCW - considering how involved Filoni is with the show. TCW had both several overarching plotlines centered around the prolonged development of several characters - Ashoka, Ventress, Rex, Delta Squad, etc. - but it was mostly portrayed through both a series of short two-four episode arcs and also had a number of standalone episodes, some of which were completely throw away. It seems we'll likely get much the same thing here, with the difference being that our titular Mando is going to be in every episode instead of just most of them for both character and cost reasons. The next two episodes are almost certain to be a mini-arc since Cara Dune is going to be in both of them, which means the season breakdown will be: one 3-episode arc, one 2-episode arc, two completely stand-alone episodes, and one nominally stand-alone episode that served as the introduction for a significant recurring character (this could change to two if any of the rogues from episode 6 return later). That seems like a fine balance.

    Somewhat unrelated, but it's become clear through six episodes that people in Hollywood want to be in this show. Pretty much every single speaking role through the first six episodes has been played by someone who could reasonably be cast as a lead in a typical show. I feel like this can only be a good thing since it means the show has broad support among the community responsible for creating it which can only mean more and better performances in Star Wars TV (not just future seasons of Mandalorian but the Obi-Wan show and others) going forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy
    Spoiler
    Show
    I wish the fight scenes had lasted a little longer, but otherwise, a really enjoyable episode with some great horror movie scenes. The one with big red brute was ok, and the mandalorian stalking 3-guns guys was awesome... But I wish Ihoped to see a little more of the fight with the twi'lek lady. Her knife-throwing was cool and all, but too short.
    Spoiler
    Show
    I think that might have been a cost-related issue. The way the fight was structured it's entirely possible Natalia Tena did all her own moves, since the fight doesn't involve any real stunts - there are no flips or falls, she mostly just shifts back and forth while doing the throwing motions - and the actual knife-in-air effects were surely added in post. If so, that means they would have avoided the considerable expense of putting a stuntwoman into Twi'lek prosthetics in order to shoot that. Prosthetics are a surprisingly expensive aspect of makeup, in part because they have to be essentially completely remade for each shooting day compared to a suit or mask that can be reused, so there's a tendency to try to minimize them.
    Resvier: a P6 homebrew setting

  25. - Top - End - #175
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    If the Mando kills the rest of the crew on the prison barge the NR (and by the way I must say I truly appreciate how The Mandalorian has embraced New Republic name in a way the ST never did) has no one to go after but him.
    Spoiler
    Show
    ... Why? They wouldn't know who he is, or what his involvement was. So far as they know, he's on the station they just shot down. Heck, with the crew being left alive, he's enabled them all to totally rat him out as the ringleader who betrayed them, or whatever they'd like to spin it as. They're in the same room, they can coordinate stories, and they can pin it all on him, with detailed descriptions of who he is. Dead, they couldn't.

    And speaking of...
    Spoiler
    Show
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: I'm the sun, I'm the sun
    Show
    Spoiler: I can move I can run
    Show
    Spoiler: But you'll never stop me burning
    Show

  26. - Top - End - #176
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    I think that might have been a cost-related issue. The way the fight was structured it's entirely possible Natalia Tena did all her own moves, since the fight doesn't involve any real stunts - there are no flips or falls, she mostly just shifts back and forth while doing the throwing motions - and the actual knife-in-air effects were surely added in post. If so, that means they would have avoided the considerable expense of putting a stuntwoman into Twi'lek prosthetics in order to shoot that. Prosthetics are a surprisingly expensive aspect of makeup, in part because they have to be essentially completely remade for each shooting day compared to a suit or mask that can be reused, so there's a tendency to try to minimize them.
    They could still have given them a slightly longer fight. Even if only 30~60 sec. No need for super complex choreography, just a few extra moves to make it more exciting.
    Homebrew Stuff:

  27. - Top - End - #177
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    I’m fine with every episode not continuing the storyline but I want the standalone to bring more to the table than just action. The Gunslinger was more character driven than the Prisoner and I enjoyed it more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    I can see that. I didn't mind their being fairly flat, though, because this episode was basically Friday the 13th: the Star Wars version. It was super fun seeing what it would be like to be hunted by the Mandalorian. Could also call it the SW version of Alien.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Meh, I would have liked the characters to have more of a personality for that. Since Mando had both ‘main character’ and ‘horror monster’ guarantees of winning the fight I need something more to be invested. Though the fact that I watched it in poor resolution and the last two fights happened in the dark may have been a factor.


    Spoiler
    Show
    Though yeah, his commitment to not killing in general this episode seems pretty odd.
    [spoiler]Especially since he doesn’t extend that to droids and the episode spells out that he hates them that makes him look more prejudiced than merciful. Mayfeld used to be an Imperial for crying out loud.[/quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    They could still have given them a slightly longer fight. Even if only 30~60 sec. No need for super complex choreography, just a few extra moves to make it more exciting.
    30seconds is a long time in term of fighting. Rule of thumb is that a minute of film takes a day of filming and fight scenes are much harder and longer to do because every move must be right.
    They already had a lot of that with the first fight (which was supe good).

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    Spoiler
    Show
    Yeah that bothered me too. The beacon is supposed to be some kind of emergency distress call, right? So I understand taking out the gunship but why destroy the whole space station?
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-12-14 at 06:17 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #178
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Spoiler: Ep6
    Show
    The station was about to launch a ship with weapons powered up. Also, they may well have already known the human staffer was dead.

  29. - Top - End - #179
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Leewei View Post
    Spoiler: Ep6
    Show
    The station was about to launch a ship with weapons powered up. Also, they may well have already known the human staffer was dead.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Imean really, the logic in that meme doesn't hold up; there's no reason to take a hostage in that situation, and it would make more sense that the guard planted it on the jailbreakers. No prison ship, no reason to hold back. If anything, it's odd they let the Mando's ship slip through.

    I just thought it was amusing. There's a lot of the show you can use the "so anyway I started blasting" bit for.
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: I'm the sun, I'm the sun
    Show
    Spoiler: I can move I can run
    Show
    Spoiler: But you'll never stop me burning
    Show

  30. - Top - End - #180
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: The Mandalorian: First Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    Imean really, the logic in that meme doesn't hold up; there's no reason to take a hostage in that situation, and it would make more sense that the guard planted it on the jailbreakers. No prison ship, no reason to hold back. If anything, it's odd they let the Mando's ship slip through.

    I just thought it was amusing. There's a lot of the show you can use the "so anyway I started blasting" bit for.
    Spoiler
    Show
    I would add that it makes sense for a group of X-wing pilots to just go in guns blazing. Fighter pilots are a notoriously trigger-happy bunch - flying through the blackness of space in a tiny tin can will do that to you - so it makes comparatively more sense for them to shoot first as opposed to a response team comprised of an assault shuttle and a marine platoon. And I think this counts double for a squadron composed of three directors who aren't going to insert themselves into their own show without getting to blow something up (I know I wouldn't).
    Resvier: a P6 homebrew setting

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •