The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    So... Loki's still an ass, but he does genuinely care for Hel? Sounds fair.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Standard Operating Procedure?
    Better than Soggy Old Poutine.
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Is it flimsier than giving dwarves that drank themselves to death a pass on the honor thing?
    You mean the one that was almost certainly introduced by their god, who has a bit of a drinking problem? Because I thought you're operating under "Hilgya's god didn't need to be involved."
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    You mean the one that was almost certainly introduced by their god, who has a bit of a drinking problem? Because I thought you're operating under "Hilgya's god didn't need to be involved."
    Besides, in the case of the drunken deaths, it's not the dwarves that are being honored... (those livers deserve it, you know? :-p )
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Werbaer View Post
    Verbing weirds language.
    Academia, here I come!

    I know it's not the same strip. Don't correct me.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Language informs culture which informs language, all of it wrapped up in a snuggly blanket of environment and change. Philology does an interesting thing as it explores how story, song, culture/heritage, and language are intermeshed.
    And also as it increases our knowledge of Phils.

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Well, the main thing I'm taking from this strip is that Durkon is not going to be perma-stoned for the rest of the comic's run.
    Although after the conclusion, he might get perma-drunk. (I couldn't resist the low-hanging fruit; sorry.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    And also as it increases our knowledge of Phils.
    But not to the point of being Philled with chichés, one hopes. :)
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    I guess this strip goes into the "Some Anvils Need To Be Dropped" section, under "necessary reminder that Evil-aligned gods and characters are still self-centered a-holes at heart and don't deserve to be held up as being cool".

    Seriously, there seems to be this trend among popular media, in recent years, to worship a-holes and villains above the heroes and positive role models. I find it unhealthy on many levels, but I digress.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNecrocomicon View Post
    I guess this strip goes into the "Some Anvils Need To Be Dropped" section, under "necessary reminder that Evil-aligned gods and characters are still self-centered a-holes at heart and don't deserve to be held up as being cool".

    Seriously, there seems to be this trend among popular media, in recent years, to worship a-holes and villains above the heroes and positive role models. I find it unhealthy on many levels, but I digress.
    I like how Loki's "freedom" to not have to give a toss about the rules is just as binding, in its own way, as O'Chul's oaths are.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNecrocomicon View Post
    Seriously, there seems to be this trend among popular media, in recent years, to worship a-holes and villains above the heroes and positive role models. I find it unhealthy on many levels,
    My wife agrees with you about 100%. The number of movies that we can watch together is thus significantly reduced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNecrocomicon View Post
    I guess this strip goes into the "Some Anvils Need To Be Dropped" section, under "necessary reminder that Evil-aligned gods and characters are still self-centered a-holes at heart and don't deserve to be held up as being cool".

    Seriously, there seems to be this trend among popular media, in recent years, to worship a-holes and villains above the heroes and positive role models. I find it unhealthy on many levels, but I digress.
    It’s also a major problem with fandoms, I like how this comic is showing that Evil is Evil, no ifs ands or buts about it.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNecrocomicon View Post
    Seriously, there seems to be this trend among popular media, in recent years, to worship a-holes and villains above the heroes and positive role models. I find it unhealthy on many levels, but I digress.
    Sounds familiar.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Also, undercutting that so-called "redefinition of evil" is sort of the point. Because it's bull****. It's not a real thing. You can't be a torturing, mass-murdering rapist and then go home and turn your Evil Switch to the "off" position to spend time with your kids. It doesn't work that way. If you are the sort of person that can commit the acts that Tarquin does daily, then that will find its way into every aspect of your existence. It's who you are. This idea that Tarquin was this perfectly rational actor despite being a complete monster at his Day Job is a pipe dream. Tarquin wants you (and Elan) to think that what he does is separate from who he is—that he's a fundamentally decent man who just so happens to murder a bunch of people here and there—because that's how he tricks you into slowly accepting his blatant Evil as a valid life choice that needs to be respected. Which it is not.

    Some people want to love the villain without having to face the fact that villains are largely terrible people who do horrific things with deficient reasoning. Not on my watch.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    What I found odd was that people tried to claim that he was not Evil because he was lovable. I don't understand that. I've never understood the need of some people to rationalize that a character they like is somehow less Evil just because they like them. Thog is Evil; Thog is lovable. Those two facts do not need to be in opposition. I don't understand treating his lovability as overriding his Evilness, nor his Evilness overriding his lovability. Because he's a fictional character and it's not necessary that we pass a binding absolute judgment on how we feel about him. We can simultaneously appreciate his comedy in this corner of our brain while condemning his evil in that corner.

    Apparently, though, that's not how some people see it, and that's what continues to baffle me. I don't see how one could appreciate fiction on any serious level if every character has to boil down to a single LOVE/HATE toggle switch.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ the Ronin View Post
    I think the first time I saw the trope was in Neil Gaiman's The Sandman back in the 90's. Something that he further expanded in American Gods.

    I mean, the whole, how the gods look to mortal thing is straight of how in the Sandman mortals perceive the Endless.
    I like the way it is in Hogfather does it
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    THE SUN WOULD NOT HAVE RISEN.
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    That's interesting as the god in question didn't start the sun raising but the people of the world believed that he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    By the way, as the highest-profile French person I know around these parts, I, a Brazilian, want to apologize, personally, to you, for something for which I am not responsible and which I tried my very best to avert. You likely know what it is.
    Eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Or Apples for that matter.
    The pine thing I think is to do with the look of a pine cone. And apple is probably just the taste. They really don't taste like rhubarb, pairs or other English fruit.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Athas View Post
    That's interesting as the god in question didn't start the sun raising but the people of the world believed that he did.
    Specifically, he's in charge of bringing up the sun after the Winter Solstice. Not every sunrise is in his purview, just the end of the longest night.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athas View Post
    The pine thing I think is to do with the look of a pine cone. And apple is probably just the taste. They really don't taste like rhubarb, pairs or other English fruit.
    Like someone said earlier, "apple" used to mean "fruit" (Old English æppel "apple; any kind of fruit; fruit in general,"). A pineapple is the fruit that looks sort of like a pine cone. It's a logical name.

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    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNecrocomicon View Post
    Seriously, there seems to be this trend among popular media, in recent years, to worship a-holes and villains above the heroes and positive role models. I find it unhealthy on many levels, but I digress.
    What do you mean, recent? Ain’t nobody reading Jonhattan Harker. Tell people ‘‘Professor Aronax’’ and you get blank stares, but when you say ‘‘Captain Nemo’’ you get ‘‘Oh, the cool submarine dude’’.

    Villains have been more popular than heroes pretty much ever since villains were allowed to be characters rather than plot devices.

    I mean Paradise Lost, anyone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Athas View Post
    Eh
    It’s really not worth anybody’s time but if you must know you should google it. It would not be an appropriate subject of discussion around here.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-08-27 at 01:50 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Athas View Post
    I like the way it is in Hogfather does it


    That's interesting as the god in question didn't start the sun raising but the people of the world believed that he did.



    Eh?



    The pine thing I think is to do with the look of a pine cone. And apple is probably just the taste. They really don't taste like rhubarb, pairs or other English fruit.
    Conefruit probably would have been better, but pineapple isn't an awful name IMO.

    If you want a really odd one, why did English people decide to call Unicorns Rhinos?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Conefruit probably would have been better, but pineapple isn't an awful name IMO.

    If you want a really odd one, why did English people decide to call Unicorns Rhinos?
    Rhinoceros is greek for "horned-nose". Which is a better description than unicorn.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Conefruit probably would have been better, but pineapple isn't an awful name IMO.

    If you want a really odd one, why did English people decide to call Unicorns Rhinos?
    Why didn't we call animals with two horns "one-horn"?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Why didn't we call animals with two horns "one-horn"?
    Same reason we renamed camelopard to giraffe. Bad PR firms.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Conefruit probably would have been better, but pineapple isn't an awful name IMO.
    According to my really brief search, "cone" wasn't in common use in English at the the time.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Why didn't we call animals with two horns "one-horn"?
    Spoiler: Not all rhinos have two horns
    Show


    Also a prehistoric rhino which looked much more like a horned horse than modern rhinos do was recently-ish found to have lived at the same time as humans.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-08-27 at 02:42 PM. Reason: Forgot word
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Why didn't we call animals with two horns "one-horn"?
    The boring answer is that most, if not all, assigned meaning in language is arbitrary. That is, if a wolf bares its teeth or a bear raises its claws or a swordsman draws his sword or Clint Eastwood throws back his poncho, the resulting communication is iconic rather than representational. There’s no reason for cats to be represented by “cat” or by “felis domesticus” or by “James Corden.” So there’s no reason why anything like or similar to cats (eg, lions) should be referred to by any word used for cats. Likewise, there’s no reason that the aforementioned Lions should be represented by, say, a decent quarterback or a healthy special teams unit.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    A lot of medieval bestiaries are full of real animals that they knew of from bad descriptions or from Roman fragments. Rome had imported Rhinos, Giraffes, Rhinos, and possibly Norwegian Brown Bears. Imagine reading about a Nile Crocodile and the biggest reptile you have seen is a garden snake.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Spoiler: Not all rhinos have two horns
    Show
    No, but I'd expect all unicorns to have one. "Two-horned horned-noses" and "one-horned horned-noses" make sense. "Two-horned one-horn" doesn't.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    No, but I'd expect all unicorns to have one. "Two-horned horned-noses" and "one-horned horned-noses" make sense. "Two-horned one-horn" doesn't.
    One would need to know that both kinds exist. Animals with horns pretty much always have two, so seeing an animal with one and needing a name for it "One-horn" is in fact an excellent idea. And then when you find a two-horned rhino you call it something else since it's a different (if obviously close) kind of animal, just like horses and donkeys.

    We gave animals names long before we came up with taxonomy is what I'm saying.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    No, but I'd expect all unicorns to have one. "Two-horned horned-noses" and "one-horned horned-noses" make sense. "Two-horned one-horn" doesn't.
    Changing the name of something because it turns out to be wrong is the height of folly.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    make sense
    But words don’t have to, as every morning DJ (“why do we drive on the parkway and park on the driveway”) has observed. Ladybugs aren’t ladies, nor are they bugs; butterflies aren’t made of butter, nor do they eat it, make it, or use it for nests; a ham radio has no pork; a baker’s dozen isn’t a dozen. To your point, we call centipedes “hundred feet” when it is not necessarily so.
    Last edited by Fish; 2019-08-27 at 02:37 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post

    Also a prehistoric rhino which looked much more like a horned horse than modern rhinos was recently-ish found to have lived at the same time as humans.
    Elasmotherium? It had slightly longer legs than regular rhinos - but would still have looked much more like a (very furry) rhino than like a horned horse IMO.

    Harry-the-Fox is one of the best prehistoric animal artists on Deviantart: here's his takes on the woolly rhino, white rhino, and Elasmotherium:

    White Rhino
    Woolly Rhino
    Elasmotherium
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2019-08-27 at 02:40 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fish View Post
    But words don’t have to, as every morning DJ (“why do we drive on the parkway and park on the driveway”) has observed.
    You make an excellent case for revolting against morning DJs.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2019-08-27 at 02:40 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Changing the name of something because it turns out to be wrong is the height of folly.
    I had a big ass issue with multiverse theory because to me the word "universe" meant "everything that is", so having several would be nonsensical. Then I realised it didn't bother me in the slightest that atoms can be dismantled in smaller parts despite the etymology of the word explicitly indicating they shouldn't, and now I'm cured of my prescriptivism.
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    Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Too much to bet, the next comic might be IFCC offering something to Hel?
    we look forward in waiting your revenge

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