The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gatemansgc View Post
    dang, was totally not expecting that from loki. though honestly i should have, cause he's LOKI. but um, he just helped take away a century of dwarf souls from her? so he removed a century of fuel from her...
    I don't think he did that, he just threatened to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
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  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I’m pretty sure that the idea of gods being shaped by their followers’ beliefs instead of being objective realities the way mortals are is a recent-ish fantasy invention.
    {scrubbed}
    Last edited by Peelee; 2019-08-26 at 03:31 PM.
    'Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! “The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered, crying:'Auta i lómë!" The night is passing!"

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mjasghar View Post
    {scrub the post, scrub the quote}
    And that's where the conversation should be left lest it stumbles into real life stuff.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2019-08-26 at 03:31 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Pity Thor’s not humming a certain Sting song in regards to followers like Durkon. I would be, were I in his place. :)

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I’m pretty sure that the idea of gods being shaped by their followers’ beliefs instead of being objective realities the way mortals are is a recent-ish fantasy invention.
    I think the first time I saw the trope was in Neil Gaiman's The Sandman back in the 90's. Something that he further expanded in American Gods.

    I mean, the whole, how the gods look to mortal thing is straight of how in the Sandman mortals perceive the Endless.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pax_Chi View Post
    You know, this also explains another aspect of the Thor / Loki dynamic, namely why Loki hangs around with Thor so much despite their vastly different personalities, alignments and so forth.

    Thor is literally the only person Loki can have an honest conversation with.
    this makes a ton of sense, actually.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gatemansgc View Post
    this makes a ton of sense, actually.
    They are both chaotic (CG Thor vs CE-or-CN-pick-what-you-want-for-Loki) so their personalities are not all that different except for the critical difference.

    I note up thread that someone picked out the "nothing matters" Neutral Evil for Hell's domain. Works for me. Hmm, I just noticed the Lulz blob has an orange tinge. Wonder if that's Loki's domain.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-08-26 at 01:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) ... 2D8HP told me so
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ruy343 View Post
    I just wanted to pop in to say that Thor's quote in the last panel...



    That quote gave me chills. Superb! Bravo!
    Looks like Durkon is about to ascend! He's got Belief!
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pax_Chi View Post
    You know, this also explains another aspect of the Thor / Loki dynamic, namely why Loki hangs around with Thor so much despite their vastly different personalities, alignments and so forth.

    Thor is literally the only person Loki can have an honest conversation with.
    Heh, now I'm thinking of a certain scene in Catch Me If You Can. "You have no one else to call!"

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Heh, now I'm thinking of a certain scene in Catch Me If You Can. "You have no one else to call!"
    That was a damn good movie, if heavily dramatized from real life.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    They are both chaotic (CG Thor vs CE-or-CN-pick-what-you-want-for-Loki) so their personalities are not all that different except for the critical difference.

    I note up thread that someone picked out the "nothing matters" Neutral Evil for Hell's domain. Works for me. Hmm, I just noticed the Lulz blob has an orange tinge. Wonder if that's Loki's domain.
    I though we had already figured out Hel was Neutral Evil but nice to see some semi-confirmation, and yeah Lulz is definitely Loki’s house.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    They are both chaotic (CG Thor vs CE-or-CN-pick-what-you-want-for-Loki) so their personalities are not all that different except for the critical difference.
    Thor: "You were gone too soon Laser Snail."
    Loki: "I should be helping slam dunk this clichéd* world in the trash where it belongs so my daughter can ride a tidal wave of dead dwarves to victory."

    Tells you anything you need to know about these two.

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I note up thread that someone picked out the "nothing matters" Neutral Evil for Hell's domain. Works for me. Hmm, I just noticed the Lulz blob has an orange tinge. Wonder if that's Loki's domain.
    These are the Outer Planes, the gods live there but the Planes don't belong to any one of them. According to Hilgya Loki lives in Valhalla with Thor, anyway.

    *"Clichéd"? Is cliché an English verb now?
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-08-26 at 02:07 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    This is the first time the Giant has used the same title for a 3rd strip. Guess he's really into Role play.
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JT View Post
    “fitting”

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  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Except we know the answer to the chicken and the egg. The egg predated avian life by millions of years, and beyond that, the chicken as we know it is a domesticated form of the red junglefowl of Southeast Asia. At some point, an almost-chicken junglefowl laid an egg with what we would consider a chicken in it.

    In a similar way, the fact that the gods are the way they are now does not preclude them having existed in some other form in the past—one that we might not have thought of as "gods." It's just that the mechanism for change isn't reproduction and evolution. Or rather, it's memetic evolution, not genetic.

    EDIT: I also think you're forgetting that the gods originated "from beyond the chaos." Their initial creation and/or ascension would involve how things work in that other place, wherever that might be, and has little bearing on the story.
    So does that mean that the gods can survive without worship, but worships somehow enhances or affects them anyway due to the rules of the 'verse being different from beyond the chaos?

    Or does it mean that the gods have actually tied their very existence to worship now which balances out their godly power?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    *"Clichéd"? Is cliché an English verb now?
    Everything can be an English verb. You could say their verbs have been everythinged, even.

    ETA:
    Quote Originally Posted by knag View Post
    This is the first time the Giant has used the same title for a 3rd strip. Guess he's really into Role play.
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    Ten: There's two of us. I'm reversing it, you're reversing it back again. We're confusing the polarity!
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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-08-26 at 02:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Dad of the Year material, there.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ the Ronin View Post
    I mean, the whole, how the gods look to mortal thing is straight of how in the Sandman mortals perceive the Endless.
    I'm not sure it's quite the same. In the Sandman, the way the Endless are perceived is entirely a function of who's looking at them--so the Martian Manhunter sees something different than a modern-day Earthly mortal does, and Nada sees something else again. Dream's personality is the same in all cases, though. The belief in the Stickverse seems to actually shape how the gods look and act for everyone, so even someone who believes Thor should have ginger hair will see him as blond if they meet him, because that's the majority viewpoint over many years.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Everything can be an English verb. You could say their verbs have been everythinged, even.
    Excuse me, but I believe you're using language wrong. I dare claim that one ought to say that everything has been verbed.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Everything can be an English verb. You could say their verbs have been everythinged, even.
    Grey Wolf
    Yeah we really like to verb everything.

    My predictions have been pretty on point.
    If you look at it from the perspective of the gods.
    It's not that different from meeting up with your friends and playing board/card games.
    Just replace "souls" for "fun".

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    *"Clichéd"? Is cliché an English verb now?
    I am pretty sure that is an adjective.
    marked by or abounding in clichés
    That usage is a few decades old. At least. I recall seeing it in both movie criticism and literary criticism. I'll check to see its origin.

    EDIT: Apparently, 1925 is the first cited usage. Synonym is hackneyed.

    My source is Merriam Webster, not sure what OED citations would be for that.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-08-26 at 02:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) ... 2D8HP told me so
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cazero View Post
    Excuse me, but I believe you're using language wrong. I dare claim that one ought to say that everything has been verbed.
    To toot my own horn:
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    English: so broken, you technically cannot use it wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I am pretty sure that is an adjective. That usage is a few decades old. At least. I recall seeing it in both movie criticism and literary criticism. I'll check to see its origin. (Appartnely, 1925) Synonym is hackneyed.
    Cliché is the past particple of the French verb clicher which means "to click" (no longer in use, replaced by "cliquer"). It was substantized so that "un cliché" means a photograph and, by metaphor, a sterotype.

    What confuses me is the d, that in English usually marks the past participle at the end of "clichéd". That implies that English use "to cliché" as a verb. I'm guessing to mean "filling something with clichés".
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  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I'm guessing to mean "filling something with clichés".
    Yes, that appears to be about the intended meaning.

    In the last panel, I believe that we'll see no more of the gods for a while. Cut back to actions of the mortals in the next strip.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) ... 2D8HP told me so
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    To toot my own horn:
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    English: so broken, you technically cannot use it wrong.
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    edit :
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    What confuses me is the d, that in English usually marks the past participle at the end of "clichéd". That implies that English use "to cliché" as a verb. I'm guessing to mean "filling something with clichés".
    You missed the alternate possibility, "something filled with clichés", wich fits perfectly.
    Last edited by Cazero; 2019-08-26 at 02:54 PM. Reason: fused double post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari
    Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    In the last panel, I believe that we'll see no more of the gods for a while. Cut back to actions of the mortals in the next strip.
    Yes, this looks like a way to mirror, this transition.

    I like how we cut to and back to the gods through their devices to observe the world, Hel's basin does that a lot too.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cazero View Post
    You missed the alternate possibility, "something filled with clichés", wich fits perfectly.
    A verb cannot mean "something that is X" that is an adjective or a noun. In order for "clichéd" to mean "something filledwith clichés", "to cliché" would need to mean "filling something with clichés".
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-08-26 at 02:56 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    I'm not sure it's quite the same. In the Sandman, the way the Endless are perceived is entirely a function of who's looking at them--so the Martian Manhunter sees something different than a modern-day Earthly mortal does, and Nada sees something else again. Dream's personality is the same in all cases, though. The belief in the Stickverse seems to actually shape how the gods look and act for everyone, so even someone who believes Thor should have ginger hair will see him as blond if they meet him, because that's the majority viewpoint over many years.
    It is not a 100% the same, true. Then again, the pantheons are not as defined as the Stickverse.

    The gods do need worship, but unlike in the Sandman and American Gods, the Stickverse gods have the whole "worship me for power" thing set up and they don't find themselves pole dancing for some worship (well, Hel may end up doing that, who knows)

    Like in Sandman, the gods without believers or forgotten gods are the dead gods (there is a line on how people and gods truly die when no one remembers them).
    Last edited by AJ the Ronin; 2019-08-26 at 02:58 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    A verb cannot mean "something that is X" that is an adjective or a noun. In order for "clichéd" to mean "something filledwith clichés", "to cliché" would need to mean "filling something with clichés".
    "Cliché" is used as a noun in English.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    "The only thing you'll know for sure is that you'll never see it coming." - That is one badass threat.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
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    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1177 - The Discussion Thread

    There is some evidence that English should be classified as a creole language — that is, one formed by the co-mingling of two or more languages through close contact, borrowing the lexicon of both and simplifying the grammar as it goes. It has many of the hallmarks of other languages formed in this way. It’s not completely convincing, based on what we know of modern creole languages (not much).

    The idea of “verbing” a non-verb comes from the ability in English to freely change a word’s part of speech without necessarily marking it. Normally we do this with Latin suffixes, like -al (noun to adj), -ness (adj to n), -ment (v to n). Sometimes we do it with stress (proJECT vs PROject). Other times we just say, “Meh, screw it, it’s a verb now.”
    Last edited by Fish; 2019-08-26 at 03:08 PM.
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