The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #241
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Really they should be using spears rather than swords at all. I was hoping Rey would have one in Ep 9 to be honest (yay, I said something on topic!)

    Sure, there are methods of making armour that have some resistance to lightsabres, but they're generally not so effective as to tip the balance (see: Jango Fett, Praetorian guards.) I've never read any Darth Bane content so can't speak to the effectiveness of the 'let insects eat you' method, but it doesn't seem practical on a wide scale.


    I still can't forgive the grievous mis-use of Grievous in RotS. He got built up so well by Clone Wars, and then was utterly ruined by the movie.
    And then in the other Clone Wars, he got defeated humiliatingly by virtually everyone.

  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    Really they should be using spears rather than swords at all. I was hoping Rey would have one in Ep 9 to be honest (yay, I said something on topic!)
    It seems like having Rey make a double-bladed saber staff would have been the best idea; conforms to the staff style of fighting she started with, unique design for her, can sell new toys. Checks all the boxes.

    Also, the crab armor wasn't even practical on a small scale, which was a fairly big plot point later on in the books.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2019-09-13 at 11:18 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    It seems like having Rey make a double-bladed saber staff would have been the best idea; conforms to the staff style of fighting she started with, unique design for her, can sell new toys. Checks all the boxes.
    I assume the reason they didn't is that it's too similar to the one Darth Maul used.

    Still a crummy reason, but dollars to doughnuts that discussion was had.

  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Still a crummy reason, but dollars to doughnuts that discussion was had.
    I don't know. One of the hallmarks of the new movies, whether you like them or not, is they are not producing as much new material for toys as the previous movies. New ships, new vehicles, new weapons, new aliens, these were present in copious quantities in the older movies and seem lost in the new ones. I'm not sure why they decided to go this route; I mean, you're making models and CGI anyway, why not make new ship designs as well. It's a curious decision that I have to wonder was made at a high level, or was it just a coincidence?
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  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I assume the reason they didn't is that it's too similar to the one Darth Maul used.

    Still a crummy reason, but dollars to doughnuts that discussion was had.
    Spoiler: Good thing they sidestepped that, then.
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  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    That just invites comparisons to Maul, though. Rey needs her own distinct style.

  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    That just invites comparisons to Maul, though. Rey needs her own distinct style.
    First off, they already did it (even if that's just a vision or something, which I think likely). A longer staff would be her own unique style, is the thing. Or, if that's really an issue, a single-bladed saber staff, which would still incorporate staff-fighting (already her own thing) with the established Jedi weapon.
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  8. - Top - End - #248
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    It's what they have done. It's not what I would have wanted em to do.

    Otherwise, I think we're agreeing.

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    First off, they already did it (even if that's just a vision or something, which I think likely). A longer staff would be her own unique style, is the thing. Or, if that's really an issue, a single-bladed saber staff, which would still incorporate staff-fighting (already her own thing) with the established Jedi weapon.
    Just a vision, and likely a vision that Kylo Ren is having. So yeah it doesn't really do anything to take away from Rey. Though Rey with a Naginata would be wonderful. or just a good ole Force Pike like the Imperal guards used.
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  10. - Top - End - #250
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Honestly I don't really understand why people thought destroying Starkiller base meant the First Order was gonna be in a bad shape? While it's certainly not ideal to have your base destroyed, before it got blown up starkiller base literally destroyed like all of the planets the rebel alliance was at, this is very much a case of one shot being all you need. Like, to be honest they probably weren't even sure what to do with the thing at that point, pretty much all of the targets they had to destroy were destroyed at that point.

    While on the topic of sabers, I don't really think everyone should have their own special thing, honestly some saber designs can get pretty silly. I just feel like Star Wars has a problem where they're always trying to out-cool what came before, like, a lot of bad guys follow on the Darth Vader design of broad dudes on black armor but with just more stuff plastered on top of it, and honestly it can get pretty silly. I don't think a character needs a unique piece of gear to be cool, and this idea that "well lightsabers were cool, so what if we had a dude wielding like 4 lightsabers at once!" just make things feel a bit cheap to me.
    Last edited by Morgana; 2019-09-14 at 06:01 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    Honestly I don't really understand why people thought destroying Starkiller base meant the First Order was gonna be in a bad shape? While it's certainly not ideal to have your base destroyed, before it got blown up starkiller base literally destroyed like all of the planets the rebel alliance was at, this is very much a case of one shot being all you need. Like, to be honest they probably weren't even sure what to do with the thing at that point, pretty much all of the targets they had to destroy were destroyed at that point.

    While on the topic of sabers, I don't really think everyone should have their own special thing, honestly some saber designs can get pretty silly. I just feel like Star Wars has a problem where they're always trying to out-cool what came before, like, a lot of bad guys follow on the Darth Vader design of broad dudes on black armor but with just more stuff plastered on top of it, and honestly it can get pretty silly. I don't think a character needs a unique piece of gear to be cool, and this idea that "well lightsabers were cool, so what if we had a dude wielding like 4 lightsabers at once!" just make things feel a bit cheap to me.

    For me it's more that Rey is established as a Staff fighter, turning her into someone just using a light saber felt like a bit boring for her.
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  12. - Top - End - #252
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    I'm fine with a staff or a pike, but like, I don't want them to jump the boat like have her wield a double blade that his half red and half blue

  13. - Top - End - #253
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    I'm fine with a staff or a pike, but like, I don't want them to jump the boat like have her wield a double blade that his half red and half blue
    Still feel that the double blade thing is not something real that she's ever going to hold in the film. And I don't want her with a double bladed light saber, it kind of defeats the purpose of using a staff weapon. That purpose being the ability to fight without killing your opponent.
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  14. - Top - End - #254
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    Still feel that the double blade thing is not something real that she's ever going to hold in the film. And I don't want her with a double bladed light saber, it kind of defeats the purpose of using a staff weapon. That purpose being the ability to fight without killing your opponent.
    I am pretty certain this is trailer bait, just like C3PO with the red eyes. Kind of like Finn wielding a light saber in the first TFA trailer, it made people think he was a Jedi.

  15. - Top - End - #255
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    Honestly I don't really understand why people thought destroying Starkiller base meant the First Order was gonna be in a bad shape? While it's certainly not ideal to have your base destroyed, before it got blown up starkiller base literally destroyed like all of the planets the rebel alliance was at, this is very much a case of one shot being all you need. Like, to be honest they probably weren't even sure what to do with the thing at that point, pretty much all of the targets they had to destroy were destroyed at that point.
    That is impressively wrong. There is no Rebel Alliance, because there's nothing to rebel against; the New Republic rules the galaxy.

    The Resistance (because they're resisting the First Order) is not based in the Hosnian System, and is in fact not officially backed by the New Republic at all.

    The First Order is portrayed as significantly smaller and having fewer resources than the Empire, but had a superweapon at a massively larger scale than anything done by the Empire. An obvious implication (that the following SW media bucked) was that this would be a crippling blow for the First Order.

    The planets that were destroyed was the temporary location of the NR government, which was nowhere near all the FO wanted destroyed. For example, if Starkiller Base hadn't been destroyed, then the FO could have also blown up the actual Resistance base, which they are shown invading in the beginning of Episode VIII. Or, if you would like an even more blatant example, they are charging up Starkiller Base for a second shot during the climax of Episode VII, so even only watching that movie without the followup demonstrates that they absolutely wanted to destroy more planets.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2019-09-14 at 09:23 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #256
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    I mean, I guess they aren't called the rebels and instead the resistance, but still... during force awakens, the first order is portrayed as being much more powerful than the new republic. Also, yeah, their base was fine but their whole chain of command and main seats of power were utterly destroyed. Like, a big criticism of episode 7 was that even though the names were changed, the conflict was pretty similar to when new hope roled around. I mean, that's the whole reason why the resistance relies on the same tactics that the rebels did, while the first order just flexes it's superior might and sends hordes of goons basically

    The resistance literally lost it's entire home fleet, which is huge considering they always relied on the tactics of quality over quantity, keep in mind that this was the large majority of thhe republic's fleet
    Last edited by Morgana; 2019-09-14 at 10:06 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #257
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    I mean, I guess they aren't called the rebels and instead the resistance, but still... during force awakens, the first order is portrayed as being much more powerful than the New Republic. Also, yeah, their base was fine but their whole chain of command and main seats of power were utterly destroyed. Like, a big criticism of episode 7 was that even though the names were changed, the conflict was pretty similar to when new hope roled around. I mean, that's the whole reason why the resistance relies on the same tactics that the rebels did, while the first order just flexes it's superior might and sends hordes of goons basically

    The resistance literally lost it's entire home fleet, which is huge considering they always relied on the tactics of quality over quantity, keep in mind that this was the large majority of thhe republic's fleet
    Again, that was not Resistance seats of power, Resistance fleets, or Resistance planets. Also, the entire reason the New Republic doesnt back the Resistance is because the First Order isn't seen as a noteworthy threat, and what we see in that movie shows that Starkiller Base is the vast majority of that threat. This is substantially different to the original movie, where the Empire is in charge; we don't need to see their resources because they are constantly re-inforced throughout the movie. We don't get that treatment in TFA because the NR is in charge and the FO is largely known as a small sideline government.
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  18. - Top - End - #258
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Again, that was not Resistance seats of power, Resistance fleets, or Resistance planets. Also, the entire reason the New Republic doesnt back the Resistance is because the First Order isn't seen as a noteworthy threat, and what we see in that movie shows that Starkiller Base is the vast majority of that threat. This is substantially different to the original movie, where the Empire is in charge; we don't need to see their resources because they are constantly re-inforced throughout the movie. We don't get that treatment in TFA because the NR is in charge and the FO is largely known as a small sideline government.
    If you told me that the forces the FO had in TLJ were the entirety of what they had left, I could believe it, and would not consider it problematic that they had more after Starkiller base. If you told me that was a fraction of their fleet, which was otherwise going around conquering planets in the New Republic, I would take the writers by the shoulders and shake them until their eyes crossed.
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  19. - Top - End - #259
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    The republic doesn't back the resistance because it's deeply corrupt from the inside out, and also full of burocracy where they can't really mobilize an united force of attack and need to pretty much let every system fend for themselves. The First Order is for sure a credible threat, they literally went from world to world taking them out one by one and only growing stronger, and they had a way bigger level of technology and military resources that the republic had, cause after the war with the empire ended they made a series of treaties limiting their own military development.
    Last edited by Morgana; 2019-09-14 at 01:05 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #260
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    If you told me that the forces the FO had in TLJ were the entirety of what they had left, I could believe it, and would not consider it problematic that they had more after Starkiller base. If you told me that was a fraction of their fleet, which was otherwise going around conquering planets in the New Republic, I would take the writers by the shoulders and shake them until their eyes crossed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Last Jedi Opening Crawl
    The FIRST ORDER reigns.
    Having decimated the peaceful
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    now deploys the merciless
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    Only General Leia Organa's
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    stand against the rising
    tyranny, certain that Jedi
    Master Luke Skywalker will
    return and restore a spark of
    hope to the fight.

    But the Resistance has been
    exposed. As the First Order
    speeds toward the rebel base,
    the brave heroes mount a
    desperate escape....
    The forces we saw in TLJ were far too few to "seize military control of the galaxy". That can't have been the only FO fleet.
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  21. - Top - End - #261
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Haven't read most of the thread yet, but I'll be honest: I had absolutely no clue there was a new trailer until I saw this thread. And that isn't me being all "sequels suck Disney is the worst"; I truthfully don't care about the Star Wars movies. Then again, I've been a Star Wars fan for about a year, and I'm just sick of all the controversy. Maybe that's why I don't care about the films- they just spawn a gazillion different flame wars. I love Star Wars, but I hate drama. It sucks all the enjoyment out of being a fan, and there's far too much of it.

    Anyway, mini-rant over. Maybe I should actually go watch the trailer now...
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  22. - Top - End - #262
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    I think the only thing Star Wars fans can agree on is that we all hate Star Wars lol(sarcasm font, but not fully, so like a light-ish shade of blue)
    Last edited by Morgana; 2019-09-14 at 01:17 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #263
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    I think the only thing Star Wars fans can agree on is that we all hate Star Wars lol(sarcasm font)
    I know this is supposed to be sarcastic, but it actually feels very true. Being a fan of Star Wars isn't about *liking* something anymore. It's about hating just about everything. It's just so...exhausting.

    I feel people have let nostalgia blind them. People hated the prequels, did they not? I'd say the prequels are objectively worse movies than the sequels, and suffer from an acute lack of subtlety. And-though I feel people would rip my head clean off for suggesting this- I don't think George Lucas is a very good filmmaker, at least when it comes to Star Wars.

    Should I cower under my bed now? Also, can I sig this?
    Last edited by MossyMeow; 2019-09-14 at 01:30 PM.
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  24. - Top - End - #264
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by MossyMeow View Post
    I know this is supposed to be sarcastic, but it actually feels very true. Being a fan of Star Wars isn't about *liking* something anymore. It's about hating just about everything. It's just so...exhausting.

    I feel people have let nostalgia blind them. People hated the prequels, did they not? I'd say the prequels are objectively worse movies than the sequels, and suffer from an acute lack of subtlety. And-though I feel people would rip my head clean off for suggesting this- I don't think George Lucas is a very good filmmaker, at least when it comes to Star Wars.

    Should I cower under my bed now?

    Also, can I sig this?
    It's kind of funny, I really like American Graffti. And with the original triology, he had some good people working with him to reign him in a little. So, I don't think you're far off the mark.

    I don't really care for the prequels, but I don't hate them. They're entertaining though there's some moments where I just kind wince. Can't blame Lucas for the new stuff though.
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Yep, and that's the problem. People (speaking very generally, so my apologies) like to wail that 'Disney' ruined everything, but nobody points out that nobody made Lucas sell his company. Unless he was falling on hard times that I'm completely unaware of, he chose to sell to Disney, chose to surrender his (very, very flawed) brainchild. Why doesn't anyone condemn Lucas for being a sellout?

    Oh right, because he's George freakin' Lucas, and is beyond criticism, because there's a new kid on the playground. Let's ignore EVERYTHING that happened pre-Disney, because we hate someone else now. Never mind that we USED to hate the prequels- they're awesome now, because we have something else to bash.

    *beleaguered sigh*

    I'm not trying to say Lucas is a bad person - I mean, I've never met him, so how can I judge? I don't mean to say the prequels were terrible, or that the sequels are the greatest thing since sliced bread, but the community at large seems more interested in reacting emotionally than analyzing what worked. I just wish people would, instead of condemning an entire freakin' company, judge each piece of media on its own terms.

    Then again, I have so many opinions that are...unpopular, to say the least. I mean, I liked the Last Jedi, even if it was trying too hard to subvert expectations. Solo is probably my favorite Star Wars movie, because...well, it's the only one I could follow the first time I saw it. Heck, I think the 2003 Clone Wars series is ugly and boring, with horrible voice acting. And I don't expect anyone else to share my opinions. I just wish the sane people in the Star Wars fandom wouldn't get drowned out by the haters.
    Last edited by MossyMeow; 2019-09-14 at 01:46 PM.
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  26. - Top - End - #266
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    I've never seen any explaination about why Lucas sold it, so I just default to "I don't want to deal with this fan base anymore."

    edit: With the old Legends and ongoing comics, novels and what not, I keep thinking about a saying I read somewhere. Wars can be begun at will, but ending them is seldom so easy.
    Last edited by Lurkmoar; 2019-09-14 at 01:56 PM.
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkmoar View Post
    I've never seen any explaination about why Lucas sold it, so I just default to "I don't want to deal with this fan base anymore."
    A large portion of my own frustration is that I'm a very new fan - I only started enjoying Star Wars, much less loving it, about a year ago after I discovered the Clone Wars on Netflix. I guess I never saw the fandom at its best, only the negative side.

    Fortunately, I do think it can heal. It will take time, and effort, but it's possible...I hope.
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  28. - Top - End - #268
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Wait people stopped hating Lucas? I mean they’re certainly more focused on Kennedy and Disney right now but I think there’s still some vitriol headed towards Lucas from time to time.

    Also Star Wars is great until you deal with the fans.
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by MossyMeow View Post
    A large portion of my own frustration is that I'm a very new fan - I only started enjoying Star Wars, much less loving it, about a year ago after I discovered the Clone Wars on Netflix. I guess I never saw the fandom at its best, only the negative side.

    Fortunately, I do think it can heal. It will take time, and effort, but it's possible...I hope.
    Should probably start with some common ground. You like the John Williams score Imperial March? Star Wars has IMHO, some really great music.

    It can be tough to deal with toxic human behavior, but one can only attempt to control their own.
    Don't know your name but bring the pain.

  30. - Top - End - #270
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    Default Re: So, there's a new Star Wars trailer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    The republic doesn't back the resistance because it's deeply corrupt from the inside out, and also full of burocracy where they can't really mobilize an united force of attack and need to pretty much let every system fend for themselves. The First Order is for sure a credible threat, they literally went from world to world taking them out one by one and only growing stronger, and they had a way bigger level of technology and military resources that the republic had, cause after the war with the empire ended they made a series of treaties limiting their own military development.
    Bloodlines established the New Republic as pretty different than that; not too bureaucratic to militarize, but rather not wanting to be too strong and centralized like the Empire was and overcorrecting in the opposite direction. Also, that book and the Aftermath books* establish that the First Order, to the extent that anyone outside is aware of it, is very much a fringe element and nobody knows the true scope (which isn't openly revealed until the TLJ opening crawl).
    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    I think the only thing Star Wars fans can agree on is that we all hate Star Wars lol(sarcasm font, but not fully, so like a light-ish shade of blue)
    Indeed, nobody hates Star Wars as much as Star Wars fans.

    *
    Spoiler: on the Aftermath books...
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    I'm annoyed that most readily available images with that text can't be bothered to even get the right scene.
    Quote Originally Posted by MossyMeow View Post
    Yep, and that's the problem. People (speaking very generally, so my apologies) like to wail that 'Disney' ruined everything, but nobody points out that nobody made Lucas sell his company. Unless he was falling on hard times that I'm completely unaware of, he chose to sell to Disney, chose to surrender his (very, very flawed) brainchild. Why doesn't anyone condemn Lucas for being a sellout?

    Oh right, because he's George freakin' Lucas, and is beyond criticism
    Because you're relatively new to liking it, you may have missed the massive amounts of criticism that got lobbied at Lucas over the prequel trilogy (and, unfairly, at the actors, including the ten-year-old Jake Lloyd (whose career was basically killed by this, and again, was a freaking child) and Ahmed Best, who nearly committed suicide over fan backlash directed at him. And if you don't even know who he is, that's even worse because he never even showed his face in those movies and STILL got the ridiculous amounts of hate over something he had no control over).

    Also, there was Lucas actively going out of his way to get people to criticize him.
    Spoiler: Any sane person's reaction to that article
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    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.

    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed
    In a Forum full of dorks, you are truly King Dork. Long may you reign!
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    Spoiler: I'm the sun, I'm the sun
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