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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    I've found windfury to be at once the best thing for warrior threat generation and the inevitable cause for them to lose it.
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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    Rend is fine. Rend costs 10 rage for 25 damage which ignores armor, where Heroic strike costs 15 range for 11 damage which is mitigated by armor. Now Heroic strike does have bonus threat, but not sufficient to overcome its high rage cost. Now Sunder does have more threat, doing 100 (as well as debuffing enemy armor), but that doesn't mean your damage has no effect, and as others have pointed out, you only need to out-threat the healer. You should have plenty of time in your threat cycle to stick on a rend.
    The point of the tank isn't to do damage. It's to hold aggro. Heroic strike or sunder are both far more effective at establishing a buffer of aggro during a pull. No one cares about your extra 2 dps on the several thousand health mob. Also, even if you want to compare the damage, rend is still lacking. Your damage numbers assume that you're doing to get the full duration of a rend before the mob dies. That's rarely true.

    Heroic strike at this level gives 21 bonus damage by the way, not 11. The comparison is moot though since you should literally never be using heroic strike to tank unless you have infinite rage anyway. Although i suppose that's my fault for bringing it up. You always want to dump your rage into sunder at the start of the pull over anything else. At least at these levels. Higher level tanking is obviously different.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    True, but it can't possible out-damage or out-threat a rend which runs its full course. Now Sunder does out-threat it, but not so amazingly as to dropping one rend every 15 seconds a bad idea.
    That's irrelevant. The important part of holding aggro is the first few seconds of the pull. If you're losing aggro during the later parts of the pull you're tanking wrong. Or your DPS is going hard on an off-target like a moron. Or you're incredibly out-geared. During the early parts of the pull you don't want to waste the time applying rend because you need to establish solid aggro quickly. During the later parts of the pull the mob will be dead soon and rend isn't going to give you its full value. It's extremely niche.

    Quote Originally Posted by MCerberus View Post
    I've found windfury to be at once the best thing for warrior threat generation and the inevitable cause for them to lose it.
    Windfury is amazing, but I don't think it's that useful for tanking. It's also only available to half the player base in classic unfortunately. Easily the biggest disparity in all of vanilla is that horde warriors get windfury and alliance warriors don't.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    So, went into WC last night, it was... vaguely disastrous. But we did eventually get there.

    Went in with me healing and RL friend tanking, joined a pug group of 3 DPS looking for a healer/tank. Worth noting this friend has not tanked since BC days, and I have never been a healer (outside of the RFC run a few days earlier) and am specced into Elemental (but I figure we're low enough level that doesn't matter much).


    First problem: I did not anticipate healing a dungeon last night. Showed up with no water. Asked if anybody had extra (everyone but the tank was a caster class) got no response. On top of that the Warlock in the group insisted on life tapping himself down to 10% health, and tab-dotting everything in the dungeon, to the point where the tank couldn't keep up with it. (The Warlock was also ~4 levels higher than the tank).

    Then we had a Hunter who did not understand the concept of LOS pulling, so we'd hit one of those caster mobs, run behind a wall, then he'd sit there just shooting the mob so the mob doesn't move, then we end up with twice as many mobs and me OOM and having to sit around for a minute or two to recover mana after the pull.

    The third pug was another Shaman (kind of a red flag since he was every bit as capable of healing as I was but sat around spamming for 20 minutes rather than considering trying to heal), who was level 17. So on the bright side he wasn't in danger of pulling aggro. On the downside I am pretty sure me auto attacking was out dpsing him on some pulls because he just couldn't hit.


    So we finish clearing about a third of the dungeon, and wipe to a too-big trash pull. Hunter disconnects. After we run back the Warlock's like "Yeah I don't have time to wait for someone to fill in for a half completed dungeons" and dips as well. We step out of the instance and put out the call to chat, get a couple people actually surprisingly quickly. So that's one mission accomplished.

    Enter our two new players, another Warlock (this one at least is less aggressive with life tapping so I can dig it), and an Enhancement Shaman. This enhancement shaman is actually specced into the shield block thing, is 3 levels higher than the tank, and insists he can tank the instance. So my warrior friend puts on a two-hander and says "go for it".

    While Shaman is correct that he can tank it, I am easily spending twice as much mana keeping him up as I was on the Warrior. Shield Block is a hell of an ability. Makes some pulls kind of testy, but we make it through most of the rest of the dungeon. Go back to the start, try to start the final encounter by talking to the druid dude... and he's not giving us the option to start.

    Well ****.

    Turns out when we swapped the two players out, we had skipped one of the 4 important bosses. So now we have to run all the way back to the end of the instance, take the turn we had missed, and go kill him, then run back and start the last boss. Upon realizing this Warlock#2 dips. Shaman Tank says he doesn't think we can 4-man it but decides to give it a shot anyway. We proceed along, wipe once to trash, but ultimately get through to the boss we had skipped and down it.

    Now we start running back to the start of the dungeon, and we've been in here long enough all of the trash starts respawning. Oozes and Raptors galore. Not really difficult (the only really tough trash is the caster druids which either don't respawn or we made it fast enough to avoid their respawn, and the tiny flower things that the tanks were having trouble grabbing aggro on), but super annoying and added probably at least an extra half hour to the dungeon.

    Now we're ready to start the last boss but the tank really doesn't want to do it with 4 people. So we put out the call through general and guilds, and after some time manage to backfill a level 26 hunter who's just willing to help out. From that point things go relatively smoothly because he's actually apparently a pretty good hunter and manages to avoid tanking everything while doing solid DPS.


    All told this adventure cut across a total of 8 players and took the better part of 3.5 hours.

    The cherry to top it all off? After the dungeon I realized I had missed picking up the two quests from the eyeball of the dungeon entrance, and one of the quests I had involved killing some NPC out in the pre-instance caverns. I normally wouldn't worry about it but one of those rewards is a 10slot bag which I could desperately use, so I am probably going to end up doing it again.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    So, went into WC last night, it was... vaguely disastrous. But we did eventually get there.
    Sounds like the classic experience to me!

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    So, went into WC last night, it was... vaguely disastrous. But we did eventually get there.

    *snip*

    All told this adventure cut across a total of 8 players and took the better part of 3.5 hours.

    The cherry to top it all off? After the dungeon I realized I had missed picking up the two quests from the eyeball of the dungeon entrance, and one of the quests I had involved killing some NPC out in the pre-instance caverns. I normally wouldn't worry about it but one of those rewards is a 10slot bag which I could desperately use, so I am probably going to end up doing it again.
    *Sniff*
    It's beautiful, just beautiful. What a trip down memory lane.

    I especially love the trash respawning due to you all being in there so long, that was a detail I'd forgotten too.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    *Sniff*
    It's beautiful, just beautiful. What a trip down memory lane.

    I especially love the trash respawning due to you all being in there so long, that was a detail I'd forgotten too.
    Oh man respawning trash, I remember that. Can't say I miss it.
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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    I feel like Wailing Caverns is a pretty cool instance. Yeah it has its issues here and there and some of the trash is annoying, but it feels so expansive and alive. There is a confusing bit near the third boss or so, but overall its pretty straight forward and the last part is pretty cool.

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    The point of the tank isn't to do damage.
    *scrubbed* In a 5 man group, your tank is still going to easily compose 15% of your party's damage, which is not insignificant. I've tanked virtually every content in the game from Vanilla to Legion, and at no point was rend "Not worth using". Never. *scrubbed*
    Last edited by flat_footed; 2019-09-09 at 11:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    *scrub the post, scrub the quote* In a 5 man group, your tank is still going to easily compose 15% of your party's damage, which is not insignificant. I've tanked virtually every content in the game from Vanilla to Legion, and at no point was rend "Not worth using". Never. *scrub the post, scrub the quote*
    The extra 2 dps you're doing per mob by dotting them up with rend is not worth risking losing aggro at the start of every pull because you've spent multiple global cooldowns and way too much rage trying to do the DPS' job instead of your own. It's not bad because you have to press a button to use it. It's bad because the time and resources you're using on it could be spent SO MUCH more effectively. I'm not saying you should never use it, but it's definitely situational. Having it as part of your basic tanking rotation like you described is objectively bad.
    Last edited by flat_footed; 2019-09-09 at 11:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    The extra 2 dps you're doing per mob by dotting them up with rend is not worth risking losing aggro at the start of every pull because you've spent multiple global cooldowns and way too much rage trying to do the DPS' job instead of your own. It's not bad because you have to press a button to use it. It's bad because the time and resources you're using on it could be spent SO MUCH more effectively. I'm not saying you should never use it, but it's definitely situational. Having it as part of your basic tanking rotation like you described is objectively bad.
    *scrubbed*
    Last edited by flat_footed; 2019-09-09 at 11:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    I kind of want to play a healer, but I also think I'll be doing a lot of solo play at 60. What healer is best for solo play in Classic? Kind of looks like Paladin but idk.

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    I kind of want to play a healer, but I also think I'll be doing a lot of solo play at 60. What healer is best for solo play in Classic? Kind of looks like Paladin but idk.
    Pally works (especially if you want to farm Plaguelands and the like), another good (and Horde-friendly) alternative could be Druid for a great overall levelling package (speedier, more varied levelling experience than Pally) and being able to escape anyone anytime due to powershifting. It's easier to tank dungeons with Druid than Pally, too, in case you wanted to try that. The drawback is that you don't have a non-combat resurrect, which makes it annoying in 5-man parties with no hybrid DPS (which is a likely scenario).
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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    I feel like Wailing Caverns is a pretty cool instance. Yeah it has its issues here and there and some of the trash is annoying, but it feels so expansive and alive. There is a confusing bit near the third boss or so, but overall its pretty straight forward and the last part is pretty cool.
    The only Classic Dungeons I want to re-experience are Deadmines, Shadowfang Keep, and Sunken Temple. Maaaybe Scarlet Monastery. I'm not convinced that's worth going through the pain of Vanilla mechanics and class design to experience though, and it's definitely not worth it while the world is so packed that people are lining up in-game for quest mobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    That... makes no sense. You've got several zones for each level bracket, plus instanced dungeons; you dont HAVE to queue any more than you have to do anything else, I dont think it could get that packed without crashing (as in, literally no spawns uncamped at 3 zones at the same time, plus all instances so saturated no more could be generated).

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    That... makes no sense. You've got several zones for each level bracket, plus instanced dungeons; you dont HAVE to queue any more than you have to do anything else, I dont think it could get that packed without crashing (as in, literally no spawns uncamped at 3 zones at the same time, plus all instances so saturated no more could be generated).
    And yet here we are: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...me-for-quests/

    You're underestimating / misremembering a few factors, such as how difficult it truly was to get around (many of those other zones in your "level bracket" were across the world, and/or required death runs through zones that were much too high for you with an aggro radius that extended well off the road, with a single flight path and graveyard), the game quality when you got there (even when you got there, many of these zones had sparse if any questing, swingy variation in mob level and density, outdoor elites that would absolutely wreck solo questers, and the QoL deficiencies previously mentioned), the value of zones that are close to population centers (going back across the world to train or visit a bank due to your meager bagspace isn't fun, and did I mention that quest items, keys and ammunition all took up space too?) etc.

    Not to mention that when you say "zones for each level bracket" - you're talking about a game that literally runs out of quests that can grant experience before you reach 60 and forces you to grind mobs the rest of the way. The leveling experience was smoother than its competitors, hence its popularity, but it doesn't exactly hold up today unless you really like mob grinding.

    And don't get me started on dungeons. There was no way to "queue" for those at all, you literally had to spam open chat channels and hope to find people as bored as you were. Most of them have elites outside the entrance too, so you need a group just to get to the meeting stone. (Classic has meeting stones, right?) And even once you had a group, god help you if any of them left partway through.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2019-09-10 at 04:50 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    (Classic has meeting stones, right?)
    That optimism is just ADORABLE.

    No, there were no meeting stones. I don't think they introduced meeting stones until shortly before Burning Crusade came out. I definitely had at least one character at level 60 before it happened, and I wasn't exactly powerleveling.

    Finding a group involved spamming chat in Orgrimmar or Ironforge for hours, with another member of your group in the zone of the dungeon spamming the chat there. You then all made your way to the dungeon entrance independently, or at least as far as you could get without running into Elites. Often this meant trying to guide newbies to the entrance of the dungeon via text alone, or manually walking your ass out to the flight master to meet them and lead them by the hand to the instance.

    I also remember queuing for quest mobs - that was just the expected thing. Of course, "queuing" wasn't the right word for it. Occasionally you would be around with a group that you could make a gentleman's agreement with, but most of the time it was catch as catch can. First team to spot the spawning boss and land a hit on it got the kill. Hogger was notorious for this.

    More common was just fighting over common enemies. When 100 players in the zone all need 20 Bear Asses at the same time and there are only a dozen bears that even spawn with a 5% chance of dropping an ass...yeah. I still have nightmares about trying to hunt boars in Dun Morogh during the beta.

    I've had a strong urge to play Classic just to experience the nostalgia rush. The lack of QoL stuff is keeping me away. There's just so much BS in Classic that people have forgotten over the years.

    Are 20 minute long flightpaths still a thing in modern WoW? Because that alone is enough to keep me away. I didn't mind as a college student, but these days I just have better things to do.
    Last edited by Rodin; 2019-09-10 at 05:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    And yet here we are: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...me-for-quests/

    You're underestimating / misremembering a few factors, such as how difficult it truly was to get around (many of those other zones in your "level bracket" were across the world, and/or required death runs through zones that were much too high for you with an aggro radius that extended well off the road, with a single flight path and graveyard), the game quality when you got there (even when you got there, many of these zones had sparse if any questing, swingy variation in mob level and density, outdoor elites that would absolutely wreck solo questers, and the QoL deficiencies previously mentioned), the value of zones that are close to population centers (going back across the world to train or visit a bank due to your meager bagspace isn't fun, and did I mention that quest items, keys and ammunition all took up space too?) etc.

    Not to mention that when you say "zones for each level bracket" - you're talking about a game that literally runs out of quests that can grant experience before you reach 60 and forces you to grind mobs the rest of the way. The leveling experience was smoother than its competitors, hence its popularity, but it doesn't exactly hold up today unless you really like mob grinding.

    And don't get me started on dungeons. There was no way to "queue" for those at all, you literally had to spam open chat channels and hope to find people as bored as you were. Most of them have elites outside the entrance too, so you need a group just to get to the meeting stone. (Classic has meeting stones, right?) And even once you had a group, god help you if any of them left partway through.
    This. This has all of my love. I got so tired of pointing this out to people who go, "See? There are like 3-4 zones in your level range! Go there if you run out of quests!" Yes, because spending an hour walking, on foot, with no way to travel fast, across a dozen+ zones, probably dying at least a few times in the process, just to reach another zone where I can do a handful of quests is totally a great idea and super easy. We are so freaking SPOILED with easy access to mounts at 20 as the most unnoticed benefit to the current game possible (assuming you dont have an heirloom mount and so start at level 1 on a motorcycle) And most dont even consider the sheer difference between how much mobs hurt you in modern wow, versus classic. In modern wow you practically have to go afk to die while solo. You can grab an entire campsite full of spawns, slaughter them with ease, and end the fight full health. Back then? Even a double pull could kill you if you werent good at juggling crowd control and such. Running from higher level mobs? Enjoy perma daze and a quick death.

    Look, I loved classic WoW. There are a ton of things I think the game did very right in classic and I enjoyed it greatly. However, we cant allow ourselves to forget all the truly terrible things that existed that we havent experienced for a decade now. Good luck running a dungeon without a eager guild. Yeah NOW its probably fairly easy due to everything being new and exciting so the zones are crowded. I remember those days. New expansion comes out EVERYONE wants to help the group quests and run dungeons because they need it too. A couple months later, good luck.
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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    I concur with the last few posters in this thread. Y'all think you want it, but you don't.

    Hazelnuttygames, a retail streamer who initially figured Classic content wasn't for her, ended up noticing after actually trying it out that as much as she still loves retail, Classic forces one to notice that any change, including QoL ones, takes away something from that pristine, original state of the game that is still precious and worth upholding or taking lessons from. Considering the Classic sub numbers I think that is self-evident; a lot of people who have no nostalgia for Classic appreciate some of its perks.
    Last edited by Winthur; 2019-09-10 at 06:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    And yet here we are: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...me-for-quests/

    You're underestimating / misremembering a few factors, such as how difficult it truly was to get around (many of those other zones in your "level bracket" were across the world, and/or required death runs through zones that were much too high for you with an aggro radius that extended well off the road, with a single flight path and graveyard)
    Wat.

    So you start as an Orc, you can take a zeppelin to Mulgore, or a zeppelin to EK, or go through Barrens by walking south. Sure, not all of them are popular destinations, but its not all that hard. Alliance side, sure, but there were plenty of empty spaces to level even back dring classic, its just that people dont often go off the beaten path / less popular areas.


    (going back across the world to train or visit a bank due to your meager bagspace isn't fun, and did I mention that quest items, keys and ammunition all took up space too?) etc.
    So you dont pick up random junk, and HS right before logging off (or go do something else why on flight path. I mean, I know its suboptimal, but when the option is 'stand in a queue for an hour' it makes no sense.


    And don't get me started on dungeons. There was no way to "queue" for those at all, you literally had to spam open chat channels and hope to find people as bored as you were
    .

    I know, I played since the beta. It wasnt that hard, I liked being social on open chat and when spam / trollish behaviour would arise, well, its just letters on a screen, big deal. At least for the level bracket seen in the article you have RFC right inside the main capital, and WC in the most popular area and 1 flight path away at Crossroads. Or you could walk from the zeppelin near UC into SFK, and later you get RFK and the earliest SM. I mean, whats there to rush for? Onyxia and Ragnaros? I thought the whole point of Classic was to enjoy the game? If playing it is 'boring' then why even re-sub?

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Wat.

    So you start as an Orc, you can take a zeppelin to Mulgore, or a zeppelin to EK, or go through Barrens by walking south. Sure, not all of them are popular destinations, but its not all that hard.
    It's... cute that you think Mulgore isn't crowded too with only 5 races, only one of which can be druids.

    Just schlepping your way down the barrens below level 12-15 or so is a great way to learn where the few graveyards are.

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Alliance side, sure, but there were plenty of empty spaces to level even back dring classic, its just that people dont often go off the beaten path / less popular areas.
    ...
    So you dont pick up random junk, and HS right before logging off (or go do something else why on flight path. I mean, I know its suboptimal, but when the option is 'stand in a queue for an hour' it makes no sense.
    I imagine that the trouble is leveling enough that getting to these empty areas is less of a chore than simply waiting around or tediously grinding mobs.

    But truthfully, I don't see the appeal of using my precious leisure time to join a login queue, get in the game, then join a virtual one either. Go talk to those folks; I'm just telling you it's a thing that's happening in the game.

    The hype will die down eventually (especially now the world first nutters have been satisifed) so I'm happy to wait until then.

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    I know, I played since the beta. It wasnt that hard, I liked being social on open chat and when spam / trollish behaviour would arise, well, its just letters on a screen, big deal. At least for the level bracket seen in the article you have RFC right inside the main capital, and WC in the most popular area and 1 flight path away at Crossroads. Or you could walk from the zeppelin near UC into SFK, and later you get RFK and the earliest SM. I mean, whats there to rush for? Onyxia and Ragnaros? I thought the whole point of Classic was to enjoy the game? If playing it is 'boring' then why even re-sub?
    Spamming a chat channel obviously isn't hard, but I don't find it fun either. I didn't back then and I sure as hell don't now. I rejoiced when they invented LFG.

    As for "why even resub" - you realize it uses the same sub as retail right?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Wat.

    So you start as an Orc, you can take a zeppelin to Mulgore, or a zeppelin to EK, or go through Barrens by walking south. Sure, not all of them are popular destinations, but its not all that hard. Alliance side, sure, but there were plenty of empty spaces to level even back dring classic, its just that people dont often go off the beaten path / less popular areas.

    From memory, the Org-TB zeppelins weren't available when the game was released. You had to run all the way from the Org to TB just to learnt the flight paths. And if you wanted to learn certain weapon skills you had to do so. Only TB had maces. And that was a long run, especially if you got jumped by mobs that could kill you easily. The Barrens was a massive zone with almost no graveyards but at Crossroads.

    Actually, just checked it up. Zepps from Org to TB weren't added until late WotLK. So they shouldn't be in classic.

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Spamming a chat channel obviously isn't hard, but I don't find it fun either. I didn't back then and I sure as hell don't now. I rejoiced when they invented LFG.
    I sure don't find LFG fun. Convenient? Sure, especially when you have limited time. But zoning in, running in silence, hitting the last boss without more than a "ty" in chat is... dull. I was spamming dungeons to level a healer on retail, but it really feels like playing with NPCs.

    Finding a group manually is frustrating, time consuming, and inconsistent, but at least it's more interesting and involved.

    That's not to say one is better than the other. Sometimes I want an MMO experience where I zone out and braindead level, and retail is great for that. But I've personally been hungering for a more unforgiving*, interactive experience, which is definitely what classic offers.



    *I wouldn't say harder, since neither game is hard other than occasionally super endgame content or PvP, but it definitely doesn't hold your hand like BfA does.

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    I was spamming dungeons to level a healer on retail, but it really feels like playing with NPCs.

    Finding a group manually is frustrating, time consuming, and inconsistent, but at least it's more interesting and involved.
    Why would you spam dungeons to level? It's not like you could do that in Classic either, so it can't be because you miss doing it. Leveling dungeons are there primarily for a gear spike, a little variety, and an XP spike from the group quests inside.

    And at least you CAN level as a healer in retail, i.e. switching your spec as needed. In Classic, speccing as a healer means any other activity becomes twice as slow if not more, while speccing as anything else doesn't give you much in the way of practice with your healing talents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    That's not to say one is better than the other. Sometimes I want an MMO experience where I zone out and braindead level, and retail is great for that. But I've personally been hungering for a more unforgiving*, interactive experience, which is definitely what classic offers.

    *I wouldn't say harder, since neither game is hard other than occasionally super endgame content or PvP, but it definitely doesn't hold your hand like BfA does.
    I actually wouldn't mind leveling content that is a bit harder. Mind you, you can do that in retail somewhat just by pulling extra mobs and using cooldowns. But what I would really like is faster leveling through skillful play, like how Diablo gives you bonus XP and move speed for killstreaks. If the fantasy of retail WoW is that you're a destined hero rather than an workaday schlub like in Classic, they should play that up. Not necessarily to Nephalem levels, but your time spent killing boars to make Westfall Stew before taking on the Lich King should be limited.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    I kind of want to play a healer, but I also think I'll be doing a lot of solo play at 60. What healer is best for solo play in Classic? Kind of looks like Paladin but idk.
    Even in classic, there's no bad healing class. Choose whichever one appeals to you aesthetically. Now your choice may inform your role in Classic, for example Paladins are main tank healers, where Druids specialize in AoE, but there's no BAD healer, even in vanilla.

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    So I am now - once more - a paying member of the community. And yet, I'm unsure: Is this Classic thing truly what I want to play?

    Looking at it overall, it seems like I'd get rid of all the obnoxious chaff - the pets, the appearances, the trikes and warbots, and so on. But on the other hand, what am I gaining? I get to play exclusively content I already know, already played. Hmm ...

    And then there's the question of what to play? My first character was a tauren druid, but do I go back to that, or ..?!

    I suppose no one but me can really answer these vital questions. Eh =)

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    FThe Barrens was a massive zone with almost no graveyards but at Crossroads.
    So, what happens when you die right at the edge, to one of the skull level crocolisks? :D insta Xroads trip. Take the dura hit and insta ress, you're equipped with trash anyways, and the stat debuff wasnt gonna make any difference that matters. Then its just sticking to the road all the way into Taurajo (assuming those ******* Alliance NPC patrol dont gank you), and from there it should be easy enough to die at the next zone's edge and ress by the base of Thunderbluff. Debuff dont matter while you go around checking the town, and now you got a flight path (wasnt one at Xroads at the time either IIRC) so its a one time thing :D.

    I dont know, maybe I just liked running around wasting time and killing stuff. I mean, its a game, whatever 'productivity' you find in it doesnt matter, you cant be doing things just to get to other things if you dont enjoy them. Games should be fun in and of themselves, and I liked pushing a few buttons to kill stuff on the way between quests or dungeon queues. I liked grouping up so I hung out around dungeons while leveling, thus it wasnt ever too hard or far. Perhaps its just that people dont actually like the game? they just keep pushing towards whatever next step is 'better' and then moan when they run out of track to run? Dunno.

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    And at least you CAN level as a healer in retail, i.e. switching your spec as needed. In Classic, speccing as a healer means any other activity becomes twice as slow if not more, while speccing as anything else doesn't give you much in the way of practice with your healing talents.
    You can heal easily while specced into DPS especially considering many Paladin builds dip into Holy for Consecration and Priests can go Wand Spec / Spirit Tap into Disc and have a great time doing damage as well. DPS-specced hybrids heal dungeons very well until at least level 40, by which point you can build a solid DPS-leaning hybrid spec for anyone. Practice with healing talents is a wash considering the mechanical complexity of neither spec is particularly great.

    Also, levelling as a healer means you are a hot commodity, warriors beg to group up with you and you have a much easier time getting dungeon groups rolling. Why bother wanding stuff by yourself when you can heal a warrior to cut through every mob out there with no downtime?
    Last edited by Winthur; 2019-09-11 at 02:16 AM.
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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    All of the stuff people are complaining about here are the things I like about Classic. Retail is a theme park. There's no difficulty, and no depth beyond "here look at this new shiny thing" every few seconds like a pathetic attempt to keep the attention of a child with ADD. Classic makes you work for the rare shiny thing, and you actually appreciate it as a result.

    Would a prefer a new game with similar design over something I've played before? Probably. But since that isn't going to happen I'll continue to enjoy classic.

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    So I am now - once more - a paying member of the community. And yet, I'm unsure: Is this Classic thing truly what I want to play?
    To me, classic is a fine thing. As someone on reddit put it:

    Retail is a series of mini games with deep complexity but it is no true roleplaying game anymore.

    Classic is trying to portray an immersive world that happens to be a playable MMO.
    I can dig the roleplaying part. You are not random soldier number 93232 holding Thrall's lantern while he deals with world ending threat number 15. You're a random dude that helps stop a small incursion of demonologists in Orgrimmar. You are a random dude that wakes an important druid from his slumber to not succumb to the Emerald Nightmare. Your class is unique. It can be more powerful than others, it can be weaker. The skill ceiling is not incredibly high but the skill requirement for content is also higher. I like the game.

    But that being said, I do not think I will play beyond 60 much. I lack the time and commitment to even prepare for large raids, I might do a few end game dungeons for the heck of it. If I am seeing Molten Core at all, consider me lucky.

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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Shun the Light, It's WoW Classic Time

    I am loving this. Classic is the most fun I have had in an MMO in quite some time. I quit playing right after Cataclysm as I was fed up with how easy they were making the game and how they were removing all the options for characters. I joined back up about two weeks before Classic opened and played a goblin just to see what changed. After hitting 20 without even feeling like I was threatened of dying and doing it in less than 12 hours I was shocked. Then I was in Barrens and it took a while to figure out the mobs were leveling with me instead of getting easier so I could clear the zone of quests and move on. WTF? How far retail has fallen... It is streamlined ez mode no matter what anyone else says. No way in hell I would ever play it again and kind of just put it down and waited.

    Enter Classic. Having a blast. I love all the details and grind. Pets that actually matter and can be trained with what I want. Skills I can put in any category. My hunter actually uses melee weapons and currently is duel wielding a pair of swords and so looks pretty cool to me. I am currently passively camping a rare spawn cat because it also looks cool and then I am heading back to wetlands to try and get a whelpling pet. As I camp this pet, I am leveling a pally and having a blast with that guy and have met a whole new group of friends and looking forward to going after the big Pally hammer at 20. There are no rose tinted goggles. Classic is so much better than retail. They might as well be two different games.

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