Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

[Blackhawk748]

Exorcists are no longer D6 shots. Now they are 3D3 shots. So yeah, a lot less swingy. Also they now have a different anti-infantry variant where they get 3D6 shots. Retributors don't take a penalty to moving and shooting, so you can plop multi-meltas on them without feeling bad. Plus they've got a stratagem to increase their range to 36 inches. And the Ammo Cherub lets them shoot twice, once per game.

Oh good, that was always the quick and dirty fix for Excorsists and the math usually checked out. The Anti Infantry one is nice, been asking for that since DoW Soulstrom came out.

Rets have Relentless now? Thank you god! I've been asking for that for 3 editions and its nice that I finally get it. I also find it amusing that they still have Shoot Twice.

I am with LanXero on the swinginess though not as much. Like, its clearly there but Im less concerned about you getting shafted (as with all the floating +1s you get I doubt that will happen often if at all) its more the string of 6's cuz...just ew. I'll feel bad for the other guy.

Anyone hear any leaks about new HQs? Cuz otherwise we still only have the one which makes Double Battalions...problematic.

[Cheesegear]

Anyone hear any leaks about new HQs? Cuz otherwise we still only have the one which makes Double Battalions...problematic.

From the leak:
Canoness
Celestine
Triumph of Saint Katherine
Junith Eruita
Missionary

[Blackhawk748]

From the leak:
Canoness
Celestine
Triumph of Saint Katherine
Junith Eruita
Missionary

Ok, so ignoring Uniques we have 2. That's fine. If the past is anything to go by Missionaries are real, real cheap and can have Plasma. So thats useful. A bit sad that Jacobus doesn't appear to be hear, cuz he's been rather good historically as well as cheap as dirt.

[Cheesegear]

Ok, so ignoring Uniques we have 2. That's fine. If the past is anything to go by Missionaries are real, real cheap and can have Plasma.

Priests can't have Plasma Guns. What 8th Ed. have you been playing?
Also, there's Rad Tad the Mad Lad Taddeus the Purifier - from Blackstone Fortress - who only has a Power Maul and extra 3 shot Stubber. He's obviously based on Redemptor Kyrinov (who, coincidentally, MADE TO ORDER THIS WEEKEND, BUY NAO). He's not really any better than a normal Priest. But he does have a Power Maul which normal Priests can't have. So he's slightly more hitty in Melee which is where you want Priests to be.

[Blackhawk748]

Priests can't have Plasma Guns. What 8th Ed. have you been playing?
Also, there's Rad Tad the Mad Lad Taddeus the Purifier - from Blackstone Fortress - who only has a Power Maul and extra 3 shot Stubber. He's obviously based on Redemptor Kyrinov (who, coincidentally, MADE TO ORDER THIS WEEKEND, BUY NAO). He's not really any better than a normal Priest. But he does have a Power Maul which normal Priests can't have. So he's slightly more hitty in Melee which is where you want Priests to be.

Haven't been using a Priest at all in 8th so I never looked. Rather annoying as I have a pair of Plasma Priests taht suck now. Also, I forgot about him even though I mentioned him like a week ago. And yes, he's cheap as dirt and has a big whacky stick, too bad there's no Crusaders for him to run with anymore.

May need to look over Arco Flaggelants and see if they're worth anything.

[Renegade Paladin]

Haven't been using a Priest at all in 8th so I never looked. Rather annoying as I have a pair of Plasma Priests taht suck now. Also, I forgot about him even though I mentioned him like a week ago. And yes, he's cheap as dirt and has a big whacky stick, too bad there's no Crusaders for him to run with anymore.

I mean, they're in the Guard codex and have the right keywords. It's a pain buying another book, but they're still around.

[Blackhawk748]

I mean, they're in the Guard codex and have the right keywords. It's a pain buying another book, but they're still around.

Wait...so they have Plasma in the Guard Codex but not in the Sisters one yet have basically the same keywords... Weird.

[Cheesegear]

Wait...so they have Plasma in the Guard Codex but not in the Sisters one...

No they don't. I think you misread what Renegade Paladin wrote. The Guard Codex contains Crusaders, and they have both <Astra Militarum> and <Ministorum> Keywords. So they can be used from the Guard Codex, in a Ministorum Detachment. But that's moot. Because the leaked Contents List for the apparently misnamed Codex: Adepta Sororitas, contains Crusaders - and, Death Cult Assassins! - anyway.

What Priests and Crusaders/DCAs don't have anymore, is access to Land Raiders, because The Inquisition was neutered.

[Renegade Paladin]

Yeah, I meant you can still get Crusaders. I hadn't read the table of contents and presumed that when you said there weren't Crusaders for him to run around with that they'd been removed from the army for some strange reason.

[Blackhawk748]

No they don't. I think you misread what Renegade Paladin wrote. The Guard Codex contains Crusaders, and they have both <Astra Militarum> and <Ministorum> Keywords. So they can be used from the Guard Codex, in a Ministorum Detachment. But that's moot. Because the leaked Contents List for the apparently misnamed Codex: Adepta Sororitas, contains Crusaders - and, Death Cult Assassins! - anyway.

What Priests and Crusaders/DCAs don't have anymore, is access to Land Raiders, because The Inquisition was neutered.

Ooooh. Well then, glad they're still in there

[Renegade Paladin]

Apocalypse today! We had four players down from the seven who committed, but it was a fantastic game. The Imperium won it again, but it was very closely run. Pictures.

In other news, Goonhammer has an in-depth review of the Sisters codex.

[Wraith]

New datasheet for Mephiston:

Spoiler

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Lemartes:

Spoiler

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And Astorath:

Spoiler

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The next supplement, Faith & Fire-style, is supposed to be the Devastation of Bhaal, I think? Blood Angels vs. Tyranids, but with no sign yet of Dante. I owned a Dante mini when I started playing, back in the mid-90's, and it's still the same one as sold today - Primaris or not, he needs an update.

[Renegade Paladin]

Anyway, the quick and dirty: The Warlord systematically dismantled all of our Titanic assets. While it was doing that, though, we focused the Ork player, because he was all we could do anything meaningful about. We had him effectively tabled at the bottom of turn 3, so that for the last two turns it was the Warlord vs everything we had left, and it could only hold one objective.

[Drasius]

It's rare that knights or baneblades look small, but that match accomplished it.

[Cheesegear]

Pictures.

Is that a scratch-build Stompa? Or just an old model? I have no idea what Ork Forge World models look like at this point.

How does 'Big Games of 40K' play now in 8th Ed. where GW has gotten rid of all the Apocalypse Formations? Or are you still using them, and just ignoring all Formations that give you access to extra Assets?
I want(ed) to create a system where Apocalypse Formations give out Command Points. But, Stratagems affect every model in the Formation. But I'm not sure how that would work.

Was there really a need for GW to go "Let's play 3000 Point games of 40K in two hours, so it takes longer to set/pack up than it does playing the game!"?
I'm so angry about how GW has handled - or rather, hasn't handled - Apocalypse for 8th Ed.


Well, the weekend is over, and Bought-and-Paid For Positive reviews for the Sororitas Codex is out, and the message is fairly clear: "Welcome to mid-to-high B-Tier, if your Miracle Dice are cold as ice, you've lost the game. Basically, you're Space Marines, without the Supplements."

1. Battle Sisters are a mid-tier unit. Troops with a 4++ save is good. But also 9 Points a model, and carry 'Just Boltguns'. If Troops are mid-tier, the whole Codex is mid-tier. 9 Points per model is also Scions, which rock face.
2. Codex is too shallow, and has too many auto-include units. Mono-build time?
3. Codex is too shallow. Can Ministorum even be run as a mono-Faction? Do Sacred Rites even matter?
4. Faithful 17 is dead, 'cause you don't get Sacred Rites (+3 to Deny, combined with 1CP Relic for -2 to Psychic tests, for a net d6+5) unless your whole army is Ministorum. Sororitas are now basically useless as Allies. Long live Greyfax. Except Greyfax isn't even that good. What should AdMech ally in, now, to deal with Psyker-heavy armies? Back to Guardsmen and Primaris Psykers?

So...Yeah. 'Space Marines, but without Supplements.' Not bad. But not going to set the world on fire, either.
But, there's the fact that Space Marines did get Supplements, and where are everyone else's, and that's got people mad, too (meanwhile, as a Space Marine player, I absolutely don't want a unique Supplement for every single Sub-Faction to become the norm).

[Renegade Paladin]

Is that a scratch-build Stompa? Or just an old model? I have no idea what Ork Forge World models look like at this point.

How does 'Big Games of 40K' play now in 8th Ed. where GW has gotten rid of all the Apocalypse Formations? Or are you still using them, and just ignoring all Formations that give you access to extra Assets?
I want(ed) to create a system where Apocalypse Formations give out Command Points. But, Stratagems affect every model in the Formation. But I'm not sure how that would work.

Was there really a need for GW to go "Let's play 3000 Point games of 40K in two hours, so it takes longer to set/pack up than it does playing the game!"?
I'm so angry about how GW has handled - or rather, hasn't handled - Apocalypse for 8th Ed.

His Stompas are mostly scratch build. If he owns an official Stompa model I don't know about it.

For our game two years ago before CA 2017 I painstakingly wrote an extensive errata document for 6th edition's Apocalypse rules to make it work with 8th and we used it once. For the last two years we've used the rules in CA 2017 because that's what people expect.

And no, I really don't think there was a need for that. The Titan player was in favor of going again using those rules since we wrapped up like five hours earlier than our scheduled end time, but the other two (our Knights player and the Ork player) had to pack it in, so we didn't. There are things to like about the Apocalypse supplement, but it's not a replacement for a giant game of 40k. That said, at 300 PL my list was just shy of 6k points, and that was over 8k points in Titans.

It's rare that knights or baneblades look small, but that match accomplished it.

Yeah. Warlord Titans do that. That's (obviously) not the official Forge World model, but I don't blame him for that; he said it was from a Greek company by the name of Titanforge. I haven't looked into it.

[LansXero]

So...Yeah. 'Space Marines, but without Supplements.' Not bad. But not going to set the world on fire, either.

Dont be afraid, its ok to dislike things. Mono build and shallow isnt 'not bad'; it has nothing to prey on and will be dismantled by current lists focused on taking down Marines as collateral damage. Much like nid'zilla when Knights were everywhere. If something can deal with Repulsors and A.Centurions, sisters wont put a dent in it.

[Cheesegear]

Sororitas has nothing to prey on and will be dismantled by current lists focused on taking down Marines as collateral damage.

As I said, 9 Point Boltguns (and 2 Point Storm Bolters) are fairly good at taking out T3 hordes like Guardsmen and Tyranids. Battle Sisters work just fine - especially with a 4+ Invulnerable, which Marines definitely don't have.

Everything else, is a problem.

Spoiler: Look At This

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This is a thing that now exists. Three Iron Hands Repulsors on a Skyshield, with two or three Thunderfire Cannons underneath, with Feirros in the middle. As you can see, the entire base, and model(s), fit on the Skyshield, so ITC new rules about large models with <Fly> and Terrain can go get ****ed.

How do you think Exorcists stack up against that kind of cancer? They don't. Let's say you pack in 3 Exorcists. What's that? 400 Points? You still have so many more points to go, and everything else is going to be cheaper. You simply can't fill an entire 2000 Points with 'Good Stuff', if you are running a single Ministorum army.

Have we seen anything about whether or not Sororitas can target Characters? If they can't, that's a real big problem.

But as I've said once or twice, Sororitas will do just fine in the 'casual' meta and people will rage about Miracle Dice being broken. If your meta is more like LansXero's, then Sororitas is DoA.

I wish more Codecies were like non-Supplement Space Marines, and Sororitas, and, like, mostly fair. But, in the real world, we all know that that isn't the case.

[Renegade Paladin]

I want(ed) to create a system where Apocalypse Formations give out Command Points. But, Stratagems affect every model in the Formation. But I'm not sure how that would work.

Here's the aforementioned errata document, if you're interested.

Spoiler: Apocalypse errata (MASSIVE)

Show

Warhammer 40,000
Apocalypse
Unofficial Update for 8th Edition
Version 1.2


This document details errata for the 6th edition Apocalypse supplement for Warhammer 40,000. This is only intended as a stopgap measure for 2017’s annual Apocalypse game at Game Knight since the official 8th edition rules won’t be released until after the game, but if this proves useful to anyone else, feel free to use it.
Design note: Several abilities in here cause a unit to “count as having charged in the Fight phase,” to translate the old Counter-attack universal special rule. In the case where such a unit is charged, it alternates activation in the Fight phase with units that charged in the same manner as the Counter-Offensive stratagem (page 242 of Warhammer 40,000: The Rules).
Errata
Page 23—Strategic Reinforcements
Change the first sentence to read:
“Spending one Strategic Victory Point allows you to bring back into play a single model that has been completely destroyed – this cannot be a model with more than 40 Wounds.”

Page 25—Divine Intervention Chart
Change the second sentence under “For the Emperor!” to read:
“All units from the list (left) add +1 to Strength if they charge until the end of the Fight phase and automatically pass Morale tests.”
Change the second and third sentences under “Foot of Gork (or is it Mork?)” to read:
“Pick any spot on the battlefield and roll a D6 for every unit within 6" of it (subtract 1 if it's rolling for a CHARACTER). On a 4+, it takes D3 mortal wounds.”
Change the second sentence under “Children of the Bloody-Handed God” to read:
“All Aeldari and Drukhari units gain +1 attack when charging and re-roll all failed To Hit rolls in close combat.”
Change the second sentence under “Desperate Strength” to read:
“All Tau units ignore penalties to Leadership in the Morale phase, ignore Wounds dealt to them on a roll of 4+, and count as having charged in the Fight phase.”



Change the second and third sentences under “The Jaws Snap Shut” to read:
“All Tyranids units re-roll To Hit and To Wound rolls of 1, and they can Advance and then shoot in the following Shooting phase. Furthermore, they can also charge in the Assault phase.”
Change the second sentence under “Anti-C’tan Protocols” to read:
All Necrons units can attempt to deny one psychic power in the enemy Psychic phase in the same manner as a Psyker, but rolls a single D6 rather than 2D6. Furthermore, they automatically pass Morale tests and pass Reanimation Protocols on a roll of 4+.”
Page 27—…Cometh the Man
Change the first sentence to read: “Until the start of his next turn, that Warlord has a 3+ invulnerable save and halves all damage dealt to him (to a minimum of 1) to represent the touch of destiny upon him, and is allowed to order an All-out Attack in the same manner as a High Command Apocalypse Formation (pg 63).”
Change the sixth entry in the Personal Exemplar Table to read:
“None Can Stand Before Me: Your Warlord has +2 Attacks. Furthermore, his attacks in close combat inflict D3 mortal wounds in addition to their normal damage and have
AP -5.”
Delete “or failed armour penetration rolls against it” from the fourth entry of the Strategic Exemplar Table.
Change the fifth entry of the Strategic Exemplar Table to read:
“Zone of Death: Nominate a Strategic Objective within your Warlord’s line of sight. All friendly units within 12” of the nominated Strategic Objective automatically pass Morale tests and re-roll all failed To Hit rolls in the first round of each close combat.”
Change the Command Exemplar Table to read:
D6 Effect
1 Implacable Advance: Your Warlord, and all friendly units within 24”, do not suffer the penalty to hit rolls for moving and firing Heavy weapons.
2 True Grit: Your Warlord, and all friendly units within 24”, ignore Wounds dealt to them on a roll of 5+.
3 Never Give Up, Never Surrender: Your Warlord, and all friendly units within 24”, ignore all penalties to Leadership in the Morale phase.
4 The Great Push: Your Warlord, and all friendly units within 24”, can shoot after advancing without restriction. If a unit does so, it cannot charge unless it possesses an ability allowing it to charge after Advancing.
5 Inspiring Oratory: Your Warlord, and all friendly units within 24”, roll an extra die when Advancing and use the highest result rolled. In addition, affected units inflict a -2 penalty to the Leadership of any units they inflicted casualties on in the Assault phase in the ensuing Morale phase.
6 Kill ‘Em All: Your Warlord, and all friendly units within 24”, re-roll To Hit and To Wound rolls of 1.

Page 29—Sons of the Primarch Chart
Change the sentence following “Lord of Excess:” to read:
“The Warlord, and any friendly unit containing models with the Mark of Slaanesh within 12” of him, ignore Wounds dealt to them on a roll of 5+.”
Change the sentence following “Lord of Destruction:” to read:
The Warlord, and any friendly Iron Warriors units within 12” of him, re-roll failed To Wound rolls against Vehicles and Buildings and wound Vehicles and Buildings on a 2+.”
Change the sentence following “Son of the Khan” to read:
“The Warlord, and all friendly White Scars units within 12” of him, double the distance of their Advance moves.”
Change the first sentence following “Lord of Terror” to read:
The Warlord causes all To Hit rolls taken against him in the Fight phase to suffer a -1 penalty”
Change the sentence following “Son of the Angel” to read:
“The Warlord gains the Fly keyword and increases his Movement characteristic to 16”.”
Change the sentence following “Son of Honour” to read:
“The Warlord, and all friendly non-Vehicle Ultramarines units within 12” of him, can choose one of the following abilities: Re-roll failed To Wound rolls against Vehicles and Buildings, re-roll all To Hit and To Wound rolls of 1, gain +2 from the benefit of cover rather than +1, automatically pass Morale tests, or ignore the penalty to hit rolls for moving and firing Heavy weapons.”
Change the sentence following “Lord of Corruption” to read:
“The Warlord, and all friendly non-Vehicle Death Guard units within 12” of him, automatically pass Morale tests and ignore Wounds dealt to them on a roll of 5+.”
Change the sentences following “Lord of Flux” to read:
“The Warlord gains the Psyker keyword, the ability to use and deny two extra psychic powers per turn, and immediately generates two powers from the Dark Hereticus discipline and/or the Weaver of Fates power of Tzeentch; he retains these powers (though not the increase to the number of powers he can cast and deny) after the Finest Hour ends.”
Change the sentence following “Lord of the Black Crusade” to read:
“The Warlord and all friendly Black Legion units within 12” of him have one of the following abilities (choose which): Re-roll all failed To Wound rolls against Monsters, add +1 to Strength in the Fight phase if they charged that turn, automatically pass Morale tests, or roll an extra die when Advancing and use the highest result rolled as well as inflict a -2 penalty to the Leadership of any units they inflicted casualties on in the Assault phase in the ensuing Morale phase.
Change the second sentence following “Son of the Forge” to read:
“All weapons used by the Warlord cause units wounded by them to fight last in the ensuing Fight phase and to move as though in difficult terrain until the end of their next turn.”
Change the sentence following “Son of the Raven” to read:
“The Warlord, and all friendly non-Vehicle units within 12” of him, may re-roll one or more dice when determining Advance movement and Charge ranges, are not slowed by terrain regardless of the terrain’s rules, and may shoot and/or Charge after Falling Back.”
Change the sentence following “Lord of the Hydra” to read:
“The Warlord, and all friendly non-Vehicle Alpha Legion units within 12” of him, count as having charged in the Fight phase, re-rolls all failed To Hit rolls in the first round of each close combat, and regains a Wound lost earlier in the game on a roll of 5+ at the end of the controlling player’s turn.”



Page 30-36—Strategic Assets
Change the third and fourth sentences of Blind Barrage to read:
“Place two markers up to 36” apart. Subtract 1 from the To Hit roll of any Shooting attack whose line of sight crosses the line between the two markers.”
Change the final sentence of Camouflage to read:
“All friendly units within 24” of that model have the benefit of cover for the first game turn.”
Change the final sentence of Minefield to read:
“Models in the minefield take a mortal wound on a roll of 6+.”
Change the text of Orbital Strike to read:
“Use this Strategic Asset to make the following shooting attack with a friendly Warlord model.
Range Type S AP D Abilities
Infinite Heavy 3D6 24 -5 2D6 Lance Strike*
*Lance Strike: After resolving this attack, make the following attack against all units (friend or foe) within 4” of the original target and the attack following it to all units (friend or foe) between 4” and 8” of the original target:
Range Type S AP D Abilities
Infinite Heavy 2D6 10 -3 1D6 -
Range Type S AP D Abilities
Infinite Heavy 1D6 5 - 1D3
“
Delete Precise Coordinates.
Change the final sentence of Replacements to read:
“This cannot be used to replace Apocalypse Formations in which one or more models have more than 40 Wounds.”
Change the final sentence of Supreme HQ to read:
“All friendly units with models within 12” of a model from the High Command automatically pass Morale tests and re-roll failed hits in the Fight phase.”
Change the text of Bombardment to read:
“Use this Strategic Asset in your Shooting phase to make the following shooting attack D6 times. with a friendly Astra Militarum player’s Warlord:
Range Type S AP D Abilities
Infinite Heavy D6 8 -2 D3 -
These attacks may target separate enemy units, no two of which may be more than 12” apart.”
Change the text of On My Coordinates! to read:
“Use this Strategic Asset to make the following shooting attack at D6 charging enemy units with an Astra Militarum model instead of that model resolving Overwatch (if more attacks are rolled than the number of enemy units charging, each eligible target must receive an attack before any receive multiple):
Range Type S AP D Abilities
12” Heavy D6 8 -2 D3 -
“
Change the final sentence of Tunnel Rats to read:
“For the remainder of the turn, any friendly Astra Militarum Infantry models that deploy from Strategic Reserve may arrive anywhere on the table more than 9” from enemy units, rather than from your table edge.”


Change the final sentence of Crusade Banner to read:
“All friendly Adeptus Astartes units within 24” of the Standard Bearer ignore Wounds dealt to them on a roll of 5+.”
Change the final sentence of Fury of the Just to read:
“All friendly Adeptus Astartes models re-roll all failed To Hit rolls in the first round of close combat.”
Change the final sentence of Hail of Fire to read:
“All friendly Adeptus Astartes models armed with bolt pistols, boltguns, or heavy bolters double the number of shots their weapons make until the start of your next turn.”
Change the final sentence of Heroic Stand to read:
“All friendly Adeptus Astartes units with models within 6” of the objective automatically pass Morale checks and count as having charged in the Fight phase.”
Delete the Strategic Resource rule from Vortex Grenade, and change the weapon profile to read:
Range Type S AP D Abilities
12” Assault D6 * * * Vortex*
*Vortex: Each time you hit the target with this weapon, it suffers a mortal wound.
Change the weapon profile of Daemon Shell to read:
Range Type S AP D Abilities
24” Assault 2D6 16 -4 D6 For every Hit roll of 1, the firer suffers a mortal wound.
Change the final sentence of Time of Vengeance to read:
“All friendly Heretic Astartes models cause all To Hit rolls taken against them in the Fight phase to suffer a -1 penalty, and gain +1 Attack if they make a successful charge.”
Change the weapon profile of Plaguestorm to read:
Range Type S AP D Abilities
18” Assault 4D6 * - D3 Fleshbane*
*Fleshbane: This attack wounds models that are not Vehicles or Buildings on a roll of 2+. It has no effect on Vehicles or Buildings.
Change the final sentence of Idol of Gork to read:
“Any Ork infantry (firned or foe!) within 24” of the marker gains +1 Attack on a turn in which they make a successful charge.”
Change the text of Eldritch Tempest to read:
“Use this Strategic Asset in your Shooting phase to make the following shooting attack 4 times against up to 4 enemy units, no two of which may be more than 12” apart, with a friendly Asuryani Warlord:
Range Type S AP D Abilities
Infinite Heavy D6 4 -3 2 -
“
Change the final sentence of Phantasm to read:
“All friendly Asuryani units have the benefit of cover for the first game turn.”
Change the final sentence of Lords of Twilight to read:
“The effects of Battlezone: Night Fight (Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, page 252) apply for the duration of that Shooting phase.”

Change the final sentence of Reanimator to read:
“The creature immediately has 2D6 lost Wounds restored.”
Change the final sentence of Spore Chimneys to read:
“All friendly Tyranid units within 12” of a marker have the benefit of cover.”
Change the final sentence of Surrounded! to read:
“During deployment, all friendly Tyranid Infantry units can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9” from the enemy deployment zone. In addition any Tyranid Infantry units that arrive from Strategic Reserve may do so within 7” of a battlefield edge of your choice that is not the enemy battlefield edge and more than 9” from enemy models.”
Change the final sentence of World Digestion to read:
“All non-Tyranid models on Forests, Jungles, and Woods terrain must roll a D6 and suffer a mortal wound on a roll of 6+ at the end of each of their turns, in addition to any other rules that apply.”
The weapon profile of Star Pulse needs changing, but since we have no Necron players, I’m not going to devise a change right now.
Change the weapon profile of Darkstar Warhead to read:
Range Type S AP D Abilities
Infinite Heavy 3D6 1 -4 D6 Fleshbane*
*Fleshbane: This attack wounds models that are not Vehicles or Buildings on a roll of 2+.


Change the weapon profile on Icefire Warhead to read:
Range Type S AP D Abilities
Infinite Heavy 3D6 1 - D6 Haywire*
*Haywire: This weapon wounds Vehicles on a roll of 2+.
Page 37—Strategic Reserve Table
Change the second entry in the Type column to read:
“Units that have abilities normally allowing them to arrive mid-battle.”
Change the third entry in the Type column to read:
“Units with a base Movement value of 10” or more and a Wounds value of 11 or less.”
Pages 38-41—Unnatural Disasters are not in play. Disregard these pages.
Any Following Pages-Apocalypse formations (and their accompanying formation types) will be translated to 8th edition standards upon request. Writing errata for them all is too great an undertaking when the vast majority of them will certainly not be used. In addition, Apocalypse War Zones Damnos, Damocles, and Pandorax are available to the 40k team at Game Knight, and material including strategic assets and Apocalypse formations from these can be errataed upon request.
Page 110—Brethren of the Great Wolf
Add “1 Company Ancient” to the formation composition. Change “1 Wolf Guard Pack” to read “1 Wolf Guard Pack or Wolf Guard Terminators Pack” in the formation composition. Delete references to upgrading models in the Wolf Guard pack from the formation restrictions.

Change the text of Banner of the Great Wolf to read:
“All friendly Space Wolves units within 24” of the Banner of the Great Wolf add 1 to their Strength characteristic on a turn in which they charge.”
Change the text of Greatest Heroes of the Age to read:
“All units in this formation subtract 1 from To Hit rolls made against them in the Fight phase. In addition, they and all friendly Space Wolves units ignore penalties to Leadership in the Morale phase.”
Page 111—Wolfpack Flanking Force
Change “1 Wolf Lord, Wolf Guard Battle Leader, or Canis Wolfborn” to read “1 Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf, Wolf Guard Battle Leader on Thunderwolf, Harald Deathwolf, or Canis Wolfborn.”
Change the text under Special Rules to read:
“All units in this formation reduce any To Hit penalties imposed on them by 1, to a minimum of 0. All units in this formation may shoot and/or Charge after Falling Back. During deployment, you may set up this formation ready to outflank their prey instead of placing them on the battlefield. Starting in the second turn, at the end of any of your Movement phases they can join the battle – set them up so that they are within 12” of any battlefield edge of your choice excluding the enemy’s table edge and more than 9” away from enemy models. All units in this formation gain +1 Attack on a turn in which they charge.”
Change the sentence after Fall Upon the Foe to read:
“All units in the formation may re-roll failed Charge rolls on the turn they arrive from Strategic Reserve.”

Page 122—Legionnaire Warband
Change the paragraph following Ten Thousand Years of Hatred to read:
“When in close combat with an Adeptus Astartes unit, models in the Legionnaire Warband re-roll failed To Hit rolls in every round of combat. Furthermore, if a Legionnaire Warband unit is within 12" of an Adeptus Astartes unit, the Legionnaire Warband unit automatically passes Morale tests.”

[LansXero]

As I said, 9 Point Boltguns (and 2 Point Storm Bolters) are fairly good at taking out T3 hordes like Guardsmen and Tyranids. Battle Sisters work just fine - especially with a 4+ Invulnerable, which Marines definitely don't have.

What Tyranids? Would those be the Guardsmen that are about to go up in price come CA19? Yeah, it preys on what everything else already dunks on, big deal.

How do you think Exorcists stack up against that kind of cancer? They don't. Let's say you pack in 3 Exorcists. What's that? 400 Points? You still have so many more points to go, and everything else is going to be cheaper. You simply can't fill an entire 2000 Points with 'Good Stuff', if you are running a single Ministorum army.

Which is why adding 'new and thematic' versions of Seraphim is bull****, but hey, lets all pretend we can bank enough 5s and 6s to make power swords wound anything relevant. Then again, T3 with a 4++ is nothing, because you get so many wounds coming in rolling enough saves above 4. Dont forget Sisters have 1 wound only, so even ancilliary storm bolter fire wounds you on 3s and thus causes you to lose models.

Have we seen anything about whether or not Sororitas can target Characters? If they can't, that's a real big problem.

Zephyrim could've had a rule similar to Marbo's "when they enter they are snipers until next turn" which would've made them interesting.

Also, your 4++ is tied up on a character that will pretty easily die to a Vindicare and would like last 2 rounds at most vs Eliminators

But as I've said once or twice, Sororitas will do just fine in the 'casual' meta and people will rage about Miracle Dice being broken. If your meta is more like LansXero's, then Sororitas is DoA.

It seems we live in different worlds sometimes; I've played Azrael for a long time and I can tell you from experience 3+ under a 4++ bubble isnt all that durable, specially when you lack the firepower to do spot removal of high threat targets. And thats with T4, which lets less shots try and force a poor roll. Think Exorcists will fix everything when the current dominant faction dunks hard on vehicles is naive at best. Luckily, opinions on the internet are free and without risk; if I had this rosy outlook we'd have poor sods buying into the faction now, and feeling scammed and hurt in a few months. Thats how communities die.

[Blackhawk748]

Well, the weekend is over, and Bought-and-Paid For Positive reviews for the Sororitas Codex is out, and the message is fairly clear: "Welcome to mid-to-high B-Tier, if your Miracle Dice are cold as ice, you've lost the game. Basically, you're Space Marines, without the Supplements."

1. Battle Sisters are a mid-tier unit. Troops with a 4++ save is good. But also 9 Points a model, and carry 'Just Boltguns'. If Troops are mid-tier, the whole Codex is mid-tier. 9 Points per model is also Scions, which rock face.
2. Codex is too shallow, and has too many auto-include units. Mono-build time?
3. Codex is too shallow. Can Ministorum even be run as a mono-Faction? Do Sacred Rites even matter?
4. Faithful 17 is dead, 'cause you don't get Sacred Rites (+3 to Deny, combined with 1CP Relic for -2 to Psychic tests, for a net d6+5) unless your whole army is Ministorum. Sororitas are now basically useless as Allies. Long live Greyfax. Except Greyfax isn't even that good. What should AdMech ally in, now, to deal with Psyker-heavy armies? Back to Guardsmen and Primaris Psykers?

So...Yeah. 'Space Marines, but without Supplements.' Not bad. But not going to set the world on fire, either.
But, there's the fact that Space Marines did get Supplements, and where are everyone else's, and that's got people mad, too (meanwhile, as a Space Marine player, I absolutely don't want a unique Supplement for every single Sub-Faction to become the norm).

So we're in the same position as always? We have like...5 good units and all we can do is spam them. The Sacred Rites not being usable unless you're pure Minusitorum is...annoying, cuz now they can't ally in cuz what are they gonna get? Squat.

[Cheesegear]

What Tyranids?

The ones that everyone outside the ITC is playing because running 150 models that don't take Morale tests is the real norm when you don't have an arbitrary timer forcing you to play faster, which arbitrarily limits your army size to like...60 models.

Also, your 4++ is tied up on a character that will pretty easily die to a Vindicare and would like last 2 rounds at most vs Eliminators

Geminae tank wounds.

Think Exorcists will fix everything when the current dominant faction dunks hard on vehicles is naive at best.

Nobody thinks that. One Exorcist, singular, will do some work by abusing Miracle Dice and Stratagems. The other two will do...Something.
Then on your opponent's turn they all die.

...And that's if you go first.

if I had this rosy outlook we'd have poor sods buying into the faction now, and feeling scammed and hurt in a few months. Thats how communities die.

Luckily, the Codex isn't actually out 'til...January (?). So the only people who actually have the Codex are people who would've bought the Codex anyway - regardless of how good it is - and scalpers.

[Squark]

So we're in the same position as always? We have like...5 good units and all we can do is spam them. The Sacred Rites not being usable unless you're pure Minusitorum is...annoying, cuz now they can't ally in cuz what are they gonna get? Squat.

And this is why "mono-faction" bonuses are a bad idea. Either
A) A powerful faction that could already go it alone if it wanted just gets stronger
B) A weak faction needs to go outside its options just to compete, and now they feel punished for doing so
C) A faction absolutely needs their mono-faction bonus, and gets locked into a mono-build because of it. And sometimes the army still doesn't do what people wanted it to, so your army is simultaneously cheesey and unenjoyable for you.

[Forum Explorer]

As I said, 9 Point Boltguns (and 2 Point Storm Bolters) are fairly good at taking out T3 hordes like Guardsmen and Tyranids. Battle Sisters work just fine - especially with a 4+ Invulnerable, which Marines definitely don't have.

Everything else, is a problem.

Spoiler: Look At This

Show

This is a thing that now exists. Three Iron Hands Repulsors on a Skyshield, with two or three Thunderfire Cannons underneath, with Feirros in the middle. As you can see, the entire base, and model(s), fit on the Skyshield, so ITC new rules about large models with <Fly> and Terrain can go get ****ed.

How do you think Exorcists stack up against that kind of cancer? They don't. Let's say you pack in 3 Exorcists. What's that? 400 Points? You still have so many more points to go, and everything else is going to be cheaper. You simply can't fill an entire 2000 Points with 'Good Stuff', if you are running a single Ministorum army.

Have we seen anything about whether or not Sororitas can target Characters? If they can't, that's a real big problem.

But as I've said once or twice, Sororitas will do just fine in the 'casual' meta and people will rage about Miracle Dice being broken. If your meta is more like LansXero's, then Sororitas is DoA.

I wish more Codecies were like non-Supplement Space Marines, and Sororitas, and, like, mostly fair. But, in the real world, we all know that that isn't the case.

Are you complaining that they aren't as good as a faction that has utterly shattered the game's balance? Because Space Marines right now have something like a 75% win rate at tournaments which is utterly disgusting. No one is even close to Space Marines at the moment.

So yeah, disregarding Space Marines who need to be fixed anyways, I think Sisters are in a good spot. If the rumored changes to hordes are true; IE, Guardsmen, Gaunts, and Gretchin all going up by 1 point, then I'd actually put them on the same level as Guard, Tyranids, and Orks. If there isn't a point change, then I'd put them just below them.

I'd actually say they are in an ideal spot. And once Space Marines are fixed (hopefully), we'll actually be able to see them used at tournaments.

[Cheesegear]

Because Space Marines right now have something like a 75% win rate at tournaments which is utterly disgusting.

Because chess clocks are unbalanced.

So yeah, disregarding Space Marines who need to be fixed anyways, I think Sisters are in a good spot. If the rumored changes to hordes are true; IE, Guardsmen, Gaunts, and Gretchin all going up by 1 point...

Except that the real problem is Plaguebearers, Poxwalkers and Tzaangors. Powerful, powerful Troops, backed up by extremely strong HQs, decent Elites, solid Fast and decent Heavy slots.

[Misery Esquire]

You know, this whole timer business made me think; why aren't the horde players taking a note out of Warhammer Fantasy?

Templates are gone now, so aside from Line of Sight abuse play, spacing is essentially irrelevant. Just put them on movement trays and slide them up the board en masse.

[Cheesegear]

Templates are gone now, so aside from Line of Sight abuse play, spacing is essentially irrelevant. Just put them on movement trays and slide them up the board en masse.

Because the instant terrain is on the board, movement trays are more hindrance than help. The instant you declare a Charge, movement trays are functionally useless.

[Manticoran]

You know, this whole timer business made me think; why aren't the horde players taking a note out of Warhammer Fantasy?

Templates are gone now, so aside from Line of Sight abuse play, spacing is essentially irrelevant. Just put them on movement trays and slide them up the board en masse.

I think it's all the dice that's the problem, not moving the minis one by one, but I might be wrong.

[Renegade Paladin]

Because chess clocks are unbalanced.

I actually agree to a point, but take that position to the 40k groups on Facebook dominated by ITC players and you'll get endless ridicule accusing you of wanting to slow play your opponents. Also, it's about the only remedy for people who are actually slow playing. Did I post here about the round in the last GT I attended where I didn't get a second turn because my opponent's two turns took two hours of a two and a half hour hard time limit?

[Cheesegear]

I actually agree to a point, but take that position to the 40k groups on Facebook dominated by ITC players and you'll get endless ridicule accusing you of wanting to slow play your opponents.

But there is such a thing as 'legalised slow playing'. Off the top of my head:
- Astartes Banners; Stop your turn while I roll dice. Sororitas can have this on their entire army, not just in their castle.
- Aggressors; Hold up whilst I roll 90 Attacks, with re-rolls to hit, and re-roll 1s to wound. Also, I have to stop to count 6s. (This applies to any unit rolling this many dice)
- You actually do have to let me move my 120 models.

I don't want to slow play you. I have to, if I'm to play the army I want. But that's not fair in a tournament with a time limit, to give one player all the time.

So, the simple solution is to run 60-80 models using units that fire a 'medium' number of shots with high burst damage output. Running anything else, will penalise you in the tournament, not in the game. This is why ITC tournaments are flooded with Craftworlds, T'au and Space Marines. It's disadvantageous to run anything else. Not because you'll lose games, but because you'll lose the tournament.
Also, you'll lose games: Oops, that's your 90 minutes, mate. Looks like you can't play anymore. Thanks for the free turns.

TL;DR: ITC is not the real world. In the real world, a quick game is still a good game, sure. But there is no actual time limit, and you're allowed to take as long as you want. In the real world, with no time limit, there isn't an advantage to slow-playing. So people don't. They just...Play the game. It takes as long as it takes. If you know your opponent has 120 Plaguebearers, you check your watch to see if you've got enough time. If you don't, don't play.