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  1. - Top - End - #661
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by bluntpencil View Post
    We use large rock formations, mesas and similar, built from foam.
    I was wondering what an LoS-blocker that isn't a Building or Ruin would look like, and that's what I was thinking. However, mesas have the exact issue that Ruins would. That is, anything you put on top of them is now immune to Melee. I guess what I'm trying to say is, since GW isn't likely to change TLoS anytime soon, my ideal board would simply be covered in, well, phallic objects. Large cylinders or cubes with rounded or irregular tops. We all know Cover saves are basically irrelevant except for a handful of models that gain additional benefits from it (and an entire Space Marine Faction that gets benefits from Cover), so why even have it?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    As mentioned before, the simplest change to TLoS would be silhouette rules. Except that limits hobbyists, and also casuals wont have proper silhouette stand-ins and will be confused. So as always, casual fluffbunnies make everything work awkwardly.

    Same thing with terrain, while ITCs fix is 'if the model will spill it cant go on top of the building', its inconsistent as what makes a good or bad model is something entirely out of player's control, as they dont decide terrain sizes. Its also stupid for Aircraft, who couldnt be charged already and could've benefit from the LoS and unfluffy for flying beasties who should be able to even grab vertically. Easier change would be to prevent narrow / tiny crap from counting as 'terrain' and letting solid roomy terrain available to be camped by Repulsors. Alas, restricting what people can scratch build is looked as a jerk move, so it wont change.

    As for what other LoS blockers there are, we found success using mountains and hills. Hell, they dont even provide cover by RAW, but they still make movement matter and cut firing lanes. More so, few things can actually camp them, since its all full of bushes, rocks, ruins, etc. Good luck balancing something on that (much like trying to land an helicopter in an actual mountain).

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I was wondering what an LoS-blocker that isn't a Building or Ruin would look like, and that's what I was thinking. However, mesas have the exact issue that Ruins would. That is, anything you put on top of them is now immune to Melee. I guess what I'm trying to say is, since GW isn't likely to change TLoS anytime soon, my ideal board would simply be covered in, well, phallic objects. Large cylinders or cubes with rounded or irregular tops. We all know Cover saves are basically irrelevant except for a handful of models that gain additional benefits from it (and an entire Space Marine Faction that gets benefits from Cover), so why even have it?
    Depending on how a mesa is built, it might be possible for most melee units to make use of it. A dreadnaught/cavalry should be able to scale minor slopes and steps; if the mesa has enough tiers, there shouldn't be an issue. Granted, this does limit the height of mesas, or at least limit the access points certain models have for getting up onto the mesa. I might be mixing rules systems, but I think its reasonable for bikes/cavalry/walkers/etc. to be able to climb small things say... 1/2-3/4 their height? And with a few steps, they could get up to a decent height pretty quickly.


    While they're not necessarily fluff appropriate, Tattooine-style huts and buildings can also be used as Line of sight blockers. Give the domed roof some ornate bits and skull decorations, and you have a 40k building with a smokestack or something.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Depending on how a mesa is built, it might be possible for most melee units to make use of it. A dreadnaught/cavalry should be able to scale minor slopes and steps; if the mesa has enough tiers, there shouldn't be an issue. Granted, this does limit the height of mesas, or at least limit the access points certain models have for getting up onto the mesa. I might be mixing rules systems, but I think its reasonable for bikes/cavalry/walkers/etc. to be able to climb small things say... 1/2-3/4 their height? And with a few steps, they could get up to a decent height pretty quickly.


    While they're not necessarily fluff appropriate, Tattooine-style huts and buildings can also be used as Line of sight blockers. Give the domed roof some ornate bits and skull decorations, and you have a 40k building with a smokestack or something.
    I just bum the Legion terrain when our 40k tournaments get too big for the 40k terrain collection; I've had a straight up Tatooine table before.
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  5. - Top - End - #665
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    While they're not necessarily fluff appropriate, Tattooine-style huts and buildings can also be used as Line of sight blockers. Give the domed roof some ornate bits and skull decorations, and you have a 40k building with a smokestack or something.
    As per Sicarius coming back out of the Warp:

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    Sicarius: "...I know what I said."

    But also, if you want fluff-relevant domed buildings; Look no further than T'au civilian Earth Caste architecture. If it's a cylinder, it's terrain.
    I'm also a big fan of cutting a Pringles can in half lengthways and making a pair of Guard Barracks.
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  6. - Top - End - #666
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    For ruins, I wish they'd just put a rule in saying you can fight up a level. And that monsters can fight up two levels.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    For ruins, I wish they'd just put a rule in saying you can fight up a level. And that monsters can fight up two levels.
    As long as they define 'level'; the new Basilicanum thingies are way taller than the old ones, and the Aquilla shrine has slightly more than 6" between one floor and the other.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    As long as they define 'level'; the new Basilicanum thingies are way taller than the old ones, and the Aquilla shrine has slightly more than 6" between one floor and the other.
    Good point. I'm a little too used to the old 3 inch triple floor ruins.
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  9. - Top - End - #669
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    and the Aquilla shrine has slightly more than 6" between one floor and the other.
    A fact which was brutally abused at our local GW since it meant that nobody could move up to the top level and charging through terrain was at - 2, so it was an 8" charge minimum even if you were directly below the opposing model.

    After a few complaints, it eventually got retired from the scenery rotation due to routine abuse.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    A fact which was brutally abused at our local GW since it meant that nobody could move up to the top level and charging through terrain was at - 2, so it was an 8" charge minimum even if you were directly below the opposing model.

    After a few complaints, it eventually got retired from the scenery rotation due to routine abuse.
    Isnt that just for craters / forests? I dont remember a -2 mentioned anywhere in ruins rules.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I was wondering what an LoS-blocker that isn't a Building or Ruin would look like, and that's what I was thinking. However, mesas have the exact issue that Ruins would. That is, anything you put on top of them is now immune to Melee. I guess what I'm trying to say is, since GW isn't likely to change TLoS anytime soon, my ideal board would simply be covered in, well, phallic objects. Large cylinders or cubes with rounded or irregular tops. We all know Cover saves are basically irrelevant except for a handful of models that gain additional benefits from it (and an entire Space Marine Faction that gets benefits from Cover), so why even have it?
    The Stormvault scenery from AoS is quite good for this, and iirc was specifically designed to help block LoS. The terrain is all taller than a standard model, but unlike more traditional hills has a flat top and very steep sides (steps), so is well suited to gaming. It doesn’t look too out of place in 40k either for the most part.

    One of my big wish list items is scenery that works for both AoS and 40k. Currently they diverge a lot, so you’re encouraged to have completely different terrain sets, which is a significant barrier to entry for people who want to try another system.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    I watched a T'au terrain tutorial. Now YouTube thinks I love them. In fairness, it's literally what I want.
    Blocks LoS. Can't put models on top. Nailed it.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Isnt that just for craters / forests? I dont remember a -2 mentioned anywhere in ruins rules.
    Charging through terrain was -2“, regardless of what it was.

    In a completely unrelated matter, Troll Slayer Orange is still the devils colour, even with a Mournfang basecoat. Corvus Black however is one of the best colours I've had the pleasure of using. Despite what the name would suggest, it's actually the absolute darkest grey/charcoal and looks black until you put an actual black next to it. I might even suggest it as a highlight option for those people crazy enough to want to highlight Abbadon Black.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Forests are easy to use and use as LOS blocking terrain. Take a note from Bolt Action(and oddly, less than coincidently earlier 40k editions) if you are in the woods you can be shot by someone outside the woods, if you are out of the woods but it is in between you and the target, you cant see them and they cant see you. We have played this in 8th and it worked fine. Also looked really good on the table adding to visual appeal which is important. All tree groupings were on bases to delineate the outline of the "forest." Height of the trees mattered so if your vehicle was tall enough to see over then it could see over and would get benefits of being behind terrain for 50% obscurement depending on how you play. My area generally gives vehicles cover if they meet the 50% and are touching the terrain since its generally hard to put vehicles and walkers in buildings. This also added to the visual appeal of giant walkers towering above the forest to the infantry on the ground.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Corsair14 View Post
    Forests are easy to use and use as LOS blocking terrain. Take a note from Bolt Action(and oddly, less than coincidently earlier 40k editions) if you are in the woods you can be shot by someone outside the woods, if you are out of the woods but it is in between you and the target, you cant see them and they cant see you. We have played this in 8th and it worked fine. Also looked really good on the table adding to visual appeal which is important. All tree groupings were on bases to delineate the outline of the "forest." Height of the trees mattered so if your vehicle was tall enough to see over then it could see over and would get benefits of being behind terrain for 50% obscurement depending on how you play. My area generally gives vehicles cover if they meet the 50% and are touching the terrain since its generally hard to put vehicles and walkers in buildings. This also added to the visual appeal of giant walkers towering above the forest to the infantry on the ground.
    Kings of War does this, and it is indeed amazing
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    So what are the thoughts on Defilers these days? Worth picking up? Or over-priced piece of junk?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    So what are the thoughts on Defilers these days? Worth picking up? Or over-priced piece of junk?
    Defilers are fine...
    If you also invest in Masters of Possession (Cursed Earth) and Lord Discordants.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Well, GW finally announced the release of the new Space Marine units most of us were actually looking forward to.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Well, GW finally announced the release of the new Space Marine units most of us were actually looking forward to.
    Are those the last marines left to go?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by PraetorDragoon View Post
    Are those the last marines left to go?
    Suppressors still don't exist.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Suppressors still don't exist.
    The Shadowspear Lieutenant is also unreleased as of yet.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    So, Drazhar is S5 with +1 to wound, fighting twice, and costing less. Does that mean he's finally good?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Meatgrinder View Post
    So, Drazhar is S5 with +1 to wound, fighting twice, and costing less. Does that mean he's finally good?
    ...Does he have an Invulnerable?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    ...Does he have an Invulnerable?
    He's a 2+/5++/6+++

    Oh, and that person forgot to mention, he's base damage 2 with it doubling on 6 to wound.

    EDIT: oh, and the +1 to wound is an aura that works on all Incubi, so he makes them better too.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    He's a 2+/5++/6+++

    Oh, and that person forgot to mention, he's base damage 2 with it doubling on 6 to wound.
    Then yeah. Drazhar is good.
    Not sure if Incubi are worth taking. But Drazhar sure is.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Surprised that Cheese hasn't commented on his boys in eye-searing yellow getting +1 damage to Vehicles & Buildings.

    On the other hand, I'm not surprised in the slightest that the instant that I pick warhammer up again after a couple of year hiatus and actually put paint on some models with the intention of fielding them as an army, the new hotness immediately gets rules to dumpster my entire army. FML.

    I imagine the WD SoS rules will be OP as hell so I won't be able to run my TS either.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Surprised that Cheese hasn't commented on his boys in eye-searing yellow getting +1 damage to Vehicles & Buildings.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Iron Hands just flooded the top of the most recent GT though, so they'll likely have a huge target on their backs.

    Such a vibrant lovely meta where you see terminators and Iron Hands, of all things, be decried as 'OP' not even 6 months after being considered unplayable trash

    And there are still people who dont realize 8th is the best edition ever.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Iron Hands just flooded the top of the most recent GT though, so they'll likely have a huge target on their backs.
    I've said it before and I'll say it again.
    If GW does do play-testing, then their play-testers either are ****, or are put under such ****ty restrictions that their feedback is non-existent and they may as well not be there.

    GW writes rules by wish-listing, same as the rest of us. That wish-list is then filtered through one or two other people to be something that almost reasonably makes sense. Except what happens when those other two people also have no idea what they're talking about?

    Heavy weapons, are almost always the most powerful weapons in any Codex:
    - Increase the AP by -1,
    - Move and Shoot Heavy weapons without penalty,
    - Re-roll 1s to hit with Heavy weapons.

    Any one of those abilities would be more than enough of a bonus. Iron Hands? ...Get all three.

    Who the **** designed that? Then, who was asleep at the wheel to let that go through to print? Especially on Vehicles where the point of keeping them balanced is giving them -1 to hit if they move (looking at you, Stormhawks).

    I know GW can't give us names anymore. But, internally, there should at least be some reprimands and 'Do not leave unattended' warnings for that writer...And the editor...And all the play-testers who thought that Iron Hands was fine.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-10-14 at 08:11 AM.
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