Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

[9mm]

I've been meaning to ask; What happened to the 2 original knight variants (Paladin and Errant?) Are they still a thing? Because I haven't seen their kits in a store, and the GW website no longer sells them.

kit breakdown is as follows

any basic knight kit will make a paladin or errant.

to make Crusaders, Wardens, and Gallants (and any carapace weapons) the kit needs the Warden upgrade spruce

to make a perceptor it needs the persceptor upgrade sprue.

currently the only box with everything is the Canix Rex box.

[Cheesegear]

any basic knight kit will make a paladin or errant.

The issue seems to be that this kit no longer exists, and these...

to make Crusaders, Wardens, and Gallants (and any carapace weapons) the kit needs the Warden upgrade spruce

...Are phasing out. With...

currently the only box with everything is the Canix Rex box.

...potentially being the only Knight box still in production soon, if not already?


Mostly, the issue seems to be "Didn't Knights used to be cheaper?"
...Yeah, they did, then GW added an extra sprue.

[Wraith]

Imperial Fists Captain who DOESN'T carry a crappy 'relic' bolt-pistol comin' at ya.

Also confirmation that Lysander and Kantor are getting updated rules in the Imperial Fists supplemented, scheduled for the latter half of October. No word on whether or not they'll be Primarised, but the current trend suggests that they will be.

Nothing yet on Helbrecht or Grimaldus, but this is definitely a step in the right direction.

[9mm]

Imperial Fists Captain who DOESN'T carry a crappy 'relic' bolt-pistol comin' at ya.

Also confirmation that Lysander and Kantor are getting updated rules in the Imperial Fists supplemented, scheduled for the latter half of October. No word on whether or not they'll be Primarised, but the current trend suggests that they will be.

Nothing yet on Helbrecht or Grimaldus, but this is definitely a step in the right direction.

Must say I love that tag line for the fists. Not sure why though.

[Cheesegear]

Imperial Fists Captain who DOESN'T carry a crappy 'relic' bolt-pistol comin' at ya.

He used to.
Not impressed with Garadon. If Siege Captain applied to a single unit within 3", I would rate him so hard, unfortunately, it applies to himself, so it's...Bad.

I'm also pretty pissed that he's got a Grav-Gun and super-special x3 Thunder Hammer. That's...Real dumb. I don't rate Salamanders' S12 Thunder Hammers, and I'm not rating them now 'cause they're yellow. Is the plan to simply outshine Lysander by comparing Captain Hammers (Possibly NSFW)?
(Maybe if Garadon had a Jump Pack I'd give a [poop]. Though I'm expecting to be forced to pay CPs to allow Fists to teleport.)

Dorn said that a Marine only ever needed two weapons - a Boltgun and a Chainsword. It...Angers me...That GW has consistently made Imperial Fists Characters incompatible with their own Chapter Tactics. All's I've ever asked for in an Imperial Fists Character is, well...Davian Thule (in Power Armour, not in a Dreadnought); Stand behind a waist-high wall with a Heavy Bolter, and let the hordes come at you. I know it's too much to ask to get Vorn Hagen in a Centurion Warsuit. But hey, maybe Lysander's rules wont be terrible the second time 'round?

Also confirmation that Lysander and Kantor are getting updated rules in the Imperial Fists supplemented, scheduled for the latter half of October. No word on whether or not they'll be Primarised, but the current trend suggests that they will be.

I wish they didn't push Primaris so hard. It makes the 'Primaris Rubicon' a joke. Hey, remember when Calgar almost died, and how that was an achievement, and, you know, we pushed Calgar as a hardcore badass? ...Right up until he got his **** pushed in by Abaddon...But, to be fair, it was Abaddon.

Turns out, even the achievements that Calgar does have, are still garbage 'cause anyone can do it.

Like I said; Put a named 'Fist in a Centurion Warsuit (or an Invictor!), and I'll be happy. Have a Relic!Siege Drill-and-Meltagun on one hand (like my boi Alexis Polux), and a Grav-Cannon lol no dummy, what idiot would give a Fist a Grav-weapon when Heavy- and Storm Bolters exists? His ranged weapon is a Relic!Heavy Bolter, obviously.

Also Wraith, I hate you. You made me click a BoLS link...But hey, at least it wasn't SpikeyBits.


ION:
How would people feel about someone using Garro and/or Rubio as a Librarian in Phobos Armour? Garro and Rubio are sneaky, right?

[Meatgrinder]

Also confirmation that Lysander and Kantor are getting updated rules in the Imperial Fists supplemented, scheduled for the latter half of October. No word on whether or not they'll be Primarised, but the current trend suggests that they will be.

Nothing yet on Helbrecht or Grimaldus, but this is definitely a step in the right direction.

*shakes Magic 8 balll*
French rumors say no to Primaris Lysander and Kantor. And they've been right so far in regards to everything else.

[Wraith]

I'm also pretty pissed that he's got a Grav-Gun and super-special x3 Thunder Hammer. That's...Real dumb. I don't rate Salamanders' S12 Thunder Hammers, and I'm not rating them now 'cause they're yellow. Is the plan to simply outshine Lysander by comparing Captain Hammers...

No, see, it's different, because his is modelled as a power FIST because he's an Imperial FIST. That makes it okay.

Also Wraith, I hate you. You made me click a BoLS link...But hey, at least it wasn't SpikeyBits.

If I have to have browser-AIDs and get their crappy adverts for the rest of the month, everyone else has to as well. I'm not sorry.

How would people feel about someone using Garro and/or Rubio as a Librarian in Phobos Armour? Garro and Rubio are sneaky, right?

Fine by me. It's obviously a special unit, it's the right size and shape so it's not like you're using a Grot for LoS nonsense, and I can't mistake it for Actual Garro because Actual Garro doesn't have 40k rules. I don't see why it would be a problem.

*shakes Magic 8 balll*
French rumors say no to Primaris Lysander and Kantor. And they've been right so far in regards to everything else.

Interesting - I would have put money on "not wanting to me Primaris Marines" being a Black Templar gimmick. There's between 1,000 and 8,000 of them depending on which source you listen to so they don't need Guilliman's new reinforcements, and they were given one order - continue the Emperor's Crusade and don't stop, ever. Wasting time heeding what a mere Primarch wants them to do doesn't seem like something that would interest Helbrecht.

[Cheesegear]

No, see, it's different, because his is modelled as a power FIST because he's an Imperial FIST. That makes it okay.

"Hey [Cheesegear], you should model all your Vanguard Veterans with Power Fists, because Imperial Fists, geddit?"
My Vanguard are space pirates, and thus have Power Axes, just like the fluff says they do.
"But Fists, eh, eh?"
You're right. Muppet-tier word association means I should ignore fluff and put sub-par **** on my models. You got it. Like, not even Thunder Hammers on all my models? Power Fists, really?
"Imperial. Fists. Power. Fists."
Imperial Fists are not named after Power Fists.


...Alexis Polux gets a pass 'cause he's my boi. Also, having a Power Fist covered in gore and viscera is plot-relevant.

[9mm]

I didn't notice that wraith had posted a rumormonger site, here's war-com version

as they say, Yellow is the new Blue.

[Meatgrinder]

Interesting - I would have put money on "not wanting to me Primaris Marines" being a Black Templar gimmick. There's between 1,000 and 8,000 of them depending on which source you listen to so they don't need Guilliman's new reinforcements, and they were given one order - continue the Emperor's Crusade and don't stop, ever. Wasting time heeding what a mere Primarch wants them to do doesn't seem like something that would interest Helbrecht.

There's, uh, also rumors that Helbrecht is getting killed off.
They're not nearly as reliable, though. So it could all be a fake-out.

[Wraith]

There's, uh, also rumors that Helbrecht is getting killed off.

this_is_fine.jpeg

Although I can see how that might work. It's a shame that the BTs don't have ANY other named characters that we could get excited about being his successor. Reclusiarch-Chapter Masters aren't a thing, as far as I am aware, so Grimaldus is out, and the only other named guy is Amalrich from the Fall of Cadia, and he's already dead too.... But I can see how GW lore might prefer the BTs to be led by someone more dynamic and hot-headed as befots their general character.

[Saambell]

So I got a pile of Termagants and Hormagaunts, and I'm thinking of turning the Hormagaunts into Termagants. But if I'm to do that, I would be likely to use Devourers for a bunch of them. Which leads me to ask: Is the increased shots and range worth the doubled points cost? 4 Points for a T3 body with a 12" Assault1 S4 AP0 gun or 8 Points for a T3 body with a 18" Assault3 S4 AP0 gun? On one hand, cheaper is better. On the other, triple the shots for double the points seems like a fair trade off. Its under 10 Points, had a solid number of shots, and with proper babysitting has no morale. Meets a few of the guidelines for good troops. But again, its double the points. And unless my bits box has a pile of devourers hidden away in it, I'm likely to only have 15 of them. If I do have the spare Devourers for the Termagant bodies I will have 27 of them which is enough for the reroll ones to wound rule. And of course, I'm just going to do normal Hormagaunts if people here tell me that its better to just stick to Fleshborers for Termagants.

Also, whats the best Carnifex build? I'm leaning towards double Talons, and of course am going with Spore Cysts. Have one with Talons and Venom Cannon, but I just picked up 2 more unbuilt, and am leaning to melee ones.

[LansXero]

I know LansXero was like "This is what a healthy meta looks like."...But, like...Really?

See? I know you never played a TCG competitively just from that.

Tau top a tournament. This means next time the meta is anti-Tau. So, BS4 fire warriors cant touch planes and get shredded by bolter fire. So far, so good. Gattling Cannons savage Tau suits like they're a joke, and incidentally also put the fear of the emperor into hordes, because D2 wrecks Disgustingly Resillient. With Graia support and the proper relics / strats, Smite spam can be curtailed. And well, good luck getting within 18" of a Crimson hunter without blowing up in the meantime. Oh, you blasted Guardians? thats cute, eat S6 mortar shots, because Eldars are better at everything, you egyptian clown.

Thats one of the things, these Plane spams arent backed by the usual Wave Serpents or even Dark Reaper or Seer Councils. They are using Mortars, to play LoS shenannigans and cover for their planes. Also to dissallow eliminators from sniping their psychers I'd guess. There is also the Voidraven and Nightwing techs, pushing away the Phoenix and the Hemlock, which is a pretty major shift if you pay attention. Just going 'lol back to planes kek' is a disservice to people who actually read their codices and find the right silver bullet for the right threat.

A healthy meta is constantly shifting, with no one archetype (archetype, not precise list) dominating for long or camping the top from one tournament to the next. This is what in other games causes banlists, nerfs, errata and other corrective measures. Now, Knights are merely Good, not Great, as they go up and down the ranking and are a pretty 100-0 choice. What they are good against they murder, and whats good against them will murder them, so they'll always top tables through preying on what they counter. But as anyone who plays competitively will tell you, there are lists made to top, and lists made to win, and only the first ones are obvious. The second kind is a crap shoot, with a mix of foresight thtough a proper reading of the meat and a big dose of luck in pairings and drawing / rolling dice. If you follow big MTG / YGO / other TCGs tournaments, you'll see a repeat of the names, but a huge turnover of archetypes and strats, with clear favorites or larger %s of the tournament making a top, but rarely winning,

[Blackhawk748]

Probably the current, existing army line in plastic, and maybe 1 or 2 characters or upgrade sprues. Welcome to spinning up a new production line.

Not expecting anything else, but they could, y'know, say that. Cuz if thats all it is I don't have to se aside more than like 60 bucks, cuz I only want two boxes then.

Psychic Awakening will include new rules for ALL armies, so how long do you think Psychic Awakening will last?

A year? I have no clue, and all I'm asking for is a basic outline, like Eldar first, then Imperium, then Orks etc. I'm not asking for the moon here.

Osiarch Bonereapers October
Mawtribes and Cities of Sigmar Soon(tm)
Plastic sisters within 3 months
Psychic Awakening will probably start within the next 3 months.
Marines will at this pace be completely done within the next 3 months.
2 more Warcry Warbands probably within next 3 months

your right, coming out with a rough overview isn't hard, you just need to just pay attention instead of turning your brain off the moment the info is not about your armies.

I don't careabout AoS so I ignore everything from that. So, in that list.

Sisters don't even have a month pinned down.
Psychic Awakening doesn't have a start month decided, or even if its gonna start this year.
Marines are still waiting on some new units that were teased a month ago and we have no idea what order things are in.

And I don't care about Warcry. ANd I am poaying attention, I'm waiting for something substantial to be said not "Its coming out SOOOOOONNN!!!" Because that's not actually telling me anything important. Soon to GW is 3-4 months. Soon to me is 1 month. So you can see my frustration with this idiocy, particularly because I have a very good line of communication with Mantic on their releases, which lets me plan things out properly so I can do what Avaris said and ask for stuff for Christmas.

I don't really care to argue their policies but when you start complaining about "burnout" and having things "inflicted" on you I think maybe you are too emotionally invested in the release policies of your preferred kind of toy soldiers. Either that or you're just whinging for no reason.

It's called Hyperbole, and I use burnout not becuase I'm emotionally invested (I sort of am but nowhere near what it used to be) because the last time I actually, honest to god cared about a WH40k announcement was when I got my Ad Mech Codex. SInce then? I just don't care anymore. Nothing has been interesting to me and everything that was got nerfed into the dirt after two weeks.

Kinda hard to care when that keeps happening.

I didn't notice that wraith had posted a rumormonger site, here's war-com version

as they say, Yellow is the new Blue.

Well...those look nice. Not sure how sold I am on the shoulder cannon but otherwise they both look nice.

[Forum Explorer]

So I got a pile of Termagants and Hormagaunts, and I'm thinking of turning the Hormagaunts into Termagants. But if I'm to do that, I would be likely to use Devourers for a bunch of them. Which leads me to ask: Is the increased shots and range worth the doubled points cost? 4 Points for a T3 body with a 12" Assault1 S4 AP0 gun or 8 Points for a T3 body with a 18" Assault3 S4 AP0 gun? On one hand, cheaper is better. On the other, triple the shots for double the points seems like a fair trade off. Its under 10 Points, had a solid number of shots, and with proper babysitting has no morale. Meets a few of the guidelines for good troops. But again, its double the points. And unless my bits box has a pile of devourers hidden away in it, I'm likely to only have 15 of them. If I do have the spare Devourers for the Termagant bodies I will have 27 of them which is enough for the reroll ones to wound rule. And of course, I'm just going to do normal Hormagaunts if people here tell me that its better to just stick to Fleshborers for Termagants.

Also, whats the best Carnifex build? I'm leaning towards double Talons, and of course am going with Spore Cysts. Have one with Talons and Venom Cannon, but I just picked up 2 more unbuilt, and am leaning to melee ones.

I've seen 15 Devourers and 15 Flesh Borers, and then using a Tervigon to replenish the Flesh borers when they get shot. Mind you, that's still not super competitive. Another thing I've seen is just taking a unit of Devilgaunts, and having them show up with a Trygon or something similar and then blasting the crap out of something.

[LansXero]

Sisters is confirmed for November. Not that it matters, since its just the new box, they could string releases along one box every two weeks to kill any interest people had in the army. The new codex has to be downright bananas to shift people away from what they're currently playing (which is not Sisters) or to get new players interested. Now that the flasgship nooblet faction is competitive, there is really no incentive for newcomers to go outside the armies in the starter sets.

[Blackhawk748]

Sisters is confirmed for November. Not that it matters, since its just the new box, they could string releases along one box every two weeks to kill any interest people had in the army. The new codex has to be downright bananas to shift people away from what they're currently playing (which is not Sisters) or to get new players interested. Now that the flasgship nooblet faction is competitive, there is really no incentive for newcomers to go outside the armies in the starter sets.

So we get a new box...but no Codex? That seems...strange.

[LansXero]

So we get a new box...but no Codex? That seems...strange.

There is a limited edition codex in the box. Not sure if the regular edition is a simultaneous release, I mean, it should be, but then I wouldnt be surprised if it comes a week later for some reason.

Im prepared for it to be just some minor changes to the useless beta codex, so I can finally say goodbye to the army and pick up maybe a couple of models for painting projects. I hope Im surprised and the new codex blows me away, but I doubt they've removed the horrendous new AoF system, which was the crux of what was wrong with the new rules, reworked / re-costed Celestine or added any new units to gap holes in the army. So it will remain a expensive hobbyist army, which is the exact opposite of what I want.

[Renegade Paladin]

There is a limited edition codex in the box. Not sure if the regular edition is a simultaneous release, I mean, it should be, but then I wouldnt be surprised if it comes a week later for some reason.

Im prepared for it to be just some minor changes to the useless beta codex, so I can finally say goodbye to the army and pick up maybe a couple of models for painting projects. I hope Im surprised and the new codex blows me away, but I doubt they've removed the horrendous new AoF system, which was the crux of what was wrong with the new rules, reworked / re-costed Celestine or added any new units to gap holes in the army. So it will remain a expensive hobbyist army, which is the exact opposite of what I want.

They said early on that they were reworking the Acts of Faith system entirely after the beta test feedback. What they're reworking it into we don't know, but it's not going to be the same thing that was in Chapter Approved last year.

[Blackhawk748]

There is a limited edition codex in the box. Not sure if the regular edition is a simultaneous release, I mean, it should be, but then I wouldnt be surprised if it comes a week later for some reason.

Im prepared for it to be just some minor changes to the useless beta codex, so I can finally say goodbye to the army and pick up maybe a couple of models for painting projects. I hope Im surprised and the new codex blows me away, but I doubt they've removed the horrendous new AoF system, which was the crux of what was wrong with the new rules, reworked / re-costed Celestine or added any new units to gap holes in the army. So it will remain a expensive hobbyist army, which is the exact opposite of what I want.

Ah, that makes much more sense. I would hope htat hte Codex comes out at the same time, otehrwise that would be rather dumb.

I hope not. I really, really hope not, cuz I'd like to play my Sisters. Also, I hope they redid the Sub-Factions because they were...bad by and large.

They said early on that they were reworking the Acts of Faith system entirely after the beta test feedback. What they're reworking it into we don't know, but it's not going to be the same thing that was in Chapter Approved last year.

Considering their success rate with re-working AoF I'm not optimistic. Add on the fact that I doubt any of the designers in studio even play Sisters (and considering that the army has been effectively dead for like 6 years this only increases the odds), that their previous Codex from 6th was digital-only, and how bad the Beta was... I have serious doubts.

At the very least we are losing Shoot Twice, and that will gut the faction. Unless we get something else that boosts our damage output sufficiently. I mean, we're still stuck with Heavy Bolters, Heavy Flamers and Multi Meltas for weapon options, so we're a bit hamstrung.

[LansXero]

Considering their success rate with re-working AoF I'm not optimistic. Add on the fact that I doubt any of the designers in studio even play Sisters (and considering that the army has been effectively dead for like 6 years this only increases the odds), that their previous Codex from 6th was digital-only, and how bad the Beta was... I have serious doubts.

At the very least we are losing Shoot Twice, and that will gut the faction. Unless we get something else that boosts our damage output sufficiently. I mean, we're still stuck with Heavy Bolters, Heavy Flamers and Multi Meltas for weapon options, so we're a bit hamstrung.

Not that the strats are too great either, since they focus on really weird ways of playing the faction. '4++ Catachans in Power Armor' doesnt really feel like Sisters, you know? And the anti-psyker tech, while meta-relevant and very useful, feels like a different flavor of sister and would make it a niche third-detachment type of faction rather than a viable army on its own.

[Cheesegear]

Spoiler: Adrax Agatone

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Doesn't look totally terrible. Finally they're putting real weapons on Primaris Captains. I might even get the model even though I have no intention of ever playing Sallies. The name, however, is all wrong. Since when did Salamanders have Latin names? I need broken names with apostrophes in.

Spoiler: Tor Garadon

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Jesus. Look at that hairline. Reckon it's tacked on using CAD? Everything about that head looks wrong.

The shoulder-mounted Gun is real stupid. It works on Iron Hands because that dude is a Techmarine. It just looks dumb.
The Bolt weapon on his Fist looks interesting, but since we've seen his stat-block, we know it's nothing.
Something is wrong with his left arm. The pose is just...Wrong.

Joke's on me. He's yellow. So I have to buy him.

To do list
1. Replace head,
2. Make it so he's holding and aiming the Grav-Gun in his left hand.

It's interesting that neither character is He'stan or Lysander respectively.

[Blackhawk748]

Not that the strats are too great either, since they focus on really weird ways of playing the faction. '4++ Catachans in Power Armor' doesnt really feel like Sisters, you know? And the anti-psyker tech, while meta-relevant and very useful, feels like a different flavor of sister and would make it a niche third-detachment type of faction rather than a viable army on its own.

Anti Psyker sounds Argent Shroud to me. I mean, sweet, a relevant Sisters Sub Faction, but none of the Strats really stuck out to me as "good". Several were acceptable, one or two were weird but workable and some were just plain strange.

Seriously, Metals and Flamers in the same squad...

[Drasius]

Spoiler: Tor Garadon

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Spoiler

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[Enixon]

All I can say about Tor is that I'm happy to see that Major Chip Hazard finally was able to get more work after Small Soldiers.

[Avaris]

Ah, that makes much more sense. I would hope htat hte Codex comes out at the same time, otehrwise that would be rather dumb.

Prepare to be disappointed then: I believe it has been explicitly said that the full codex comes out later. Can’t find the mention now, think it was from Q&A at Nova.

[LansXero]

Can 'Hero of the Chapter' from Marines 2.0 and 'Tempered by Wisdom' from the White Scars supplement be used at the same time? Can they be used on the same character? Can they be used on your walord?. Both give an extra Warlord Trait btw, the first one off the generic list, the other off the White Scar list.

[Wraith]

The Bolt weapon on his Fist looks interesting, but since we've seen his stat-block, we know it's nothing.

I'd be inclined to smooth the barrels over with putty, and have his Power Fist wearing a "knuckle duster" to sort-of explain why it's so much better than a normal Power Fist, but that's just me. Maybe it's made from adamantium or unobtanium, or something equally rare and expensive that only the IF's can afford.

Something is wrong with his left arm. The pose is just...Wrong.

It's not a flattering picture, to be fair. That being said, some of the other pictures on Warhammer Community give a side-view - it looks like his left arm is thrust right back, as though he were sprinting, while the rest of his body is standing still, I think. Wouldn't be too hard to fix even if you wren't repositioning his gun and such.

To do list
1. Replace head, wear a friggin' helmet!
2. Make it so he's holding and aiming the Grav-Gun in his left hand.

Also his name is stupid and I keep trying to call him Torgaddon. I *know* it''s not him but they're not making my life any easier.

[Cheesegear]

So, getting back into Kill Team, I plan on painting my Lictor like a Huntsman.

Spoiler: Australia Spider Warning

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Any ideas?

I'm pretty sure I saw one in my house the other day. I'll see if I can find it and paint-match it.

[Borgh]

I'm fairly sure that Torgaddon could be really helped with a more flattering paintjob. I mean, there is a black line painted between his light skin and white hair. c'mon, seriously? And that chin is either two minutes with a file or a more flattering paintjob away from not comically jutting.