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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    For the Vigilus issue, I humbly suggest:
    https://battlescribe.net/
    The thing is, what makes Vigilus Detachments worth taking, is the Stratagems. Battlescribe doesn't have those.

    Battlescribe will only tell you what's in the Detachments. In that case, it's not difficult:

    <Battle Leaders>, <Blood Claws> and <Reivers>
    Two out of three ain't bad. But, I'm sure there's a combo with Phobos Battle Leaders and Reivers, but damned if I know what it is.


    Going over GW's .pdf of Astartes Updates, it's hilarious/upsetting that they're forcing Space Wolves, Dark Angels and Blood Angels to buy Codex: Space Marines if they want access to the Obscuration Discipline. The Obscuration Discipline makes Space Wolf/Blood Angel Reivers worth taking.
    That being said, I'm sure Battlescribe lists the rules for Psychic Powers.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-08-30 at 12:39 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Aeronautica Imperialis: surprised there hasn’t been much discussion of it yet. The ‘how to play’ video has just come out, so now seems a good time to talk about it!

    From the look of things, it feels like another game that focusses in on a specific experience and directs all the game play towards maximising that. I’m a big fan of that approach: gone are the days where every GW game featured variations on the same movement, to hit and to wound rules. In the case of AI, it feels very focussed on manoeuvres and positioning, with most planes having very specific circumstances where they are most effective shooting. Seems cool, and if done well could be a very good tactical game that really rewards skill. I was also intrigued by the mention of a 12 turn game being typical, rather than the 5 or so in most games: games will be a lot of manoeuvres and whittling down the opponent, rather than destroying them in a single turn.

    The release box is cheaper than we saw with Titanicus, which is good, and there seems to be more thought given to making what you need to play available in other ways. Ultimately though, I see this much more as a ‘board game’ than a minatures wargame; I can’t see myself thinking ‘I’ll collect an AI force’ in the same way as I might a Titanicus force or a Necromunda warband. I suspect that will prove both a blessing and a curse for the game: we won’t see people playing this as pick up games at FLGS, but it is possible for one person to buy the basic set and bring it along to get others to play it, like one might a board game.
    Last edited by Avaris; 2019-08-30 at 01:54 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    The thing is, what makes Vigilus Detachments worth taking, is the Stratagems. Battlescribe doesn't have those.

    Battlescribe will only tell you what's in the Detachments. In that case, it's not difficult:

    <Battle Leaders>, <Blood Claws> and <Reivers>
    Two out of three ain't bad. But, I'm sure there's a combo with Phobos Battle Leaders and Reivers, but damned if I know what it is.


    Going over GW's .pdf of Astartes Updates, it's hilarious/upsetting that they're forcing Space Wolves, Dark Angels and Blood Angels to buy Codex: Space Marines if they want access to the Obscuration Discipline. The Obscuration Discipline makes Space Wolf/Blood Angel Reivers worth taking.
    That being said, I'm sure Battlescribe lists the rules for Psychic Powers.
    See, I dont know you, but I sort of generally agree with most of what you write. So thanks for correcting me on forgetting this, here we go:

    Specialist Detachments for wolves: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_4...st_Detachments

    Obscuration discipline: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_4...E)#Obscuration

    But yeah, BattleScribe does have full text for psychic powers, and so do the Datacards.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Foiled again!
    I wonder how long GW will take to simply move to free rules.

    ...Of course, they'll need to jack up the price and claim 'the best miniatures on the market' despite everything being designed in six hours drag-and-drop style in CAD.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-08-30 at 02:02 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Avaris View Post
    Aeronautica Imperialis: surprised there hasn’t been much discussion of it yet. The ‘how to play’ video has just come out, so now seems a good time to talk about it!
    Because it's just X-Wing with aeroplanes rather than spaceships, which means it's just Wings Of War but on hexes rather than measuring sticks. It's very literally a rehash of a game made in 2014, which was a rehash of a game released in 2004, which was based on a video game from 1994.

    It's pretty much exactly what I expected it to be when it was announced. The gameplay looks fine (because it's already very familiar) and GW have slapped the most boring part of their own IP onto it. In the How To Play video they couldn't even be bothered to record new music for the new game - what's playing in the background is the Necromunda riff.

    I'm sure that it will play fine and be enjoyable, but it's also one of the most blatantly lazy rip-offs that I've seen from GW. And they were even lazy about their lazy rip-offs - Seriously, why didn't they set it in space and call it Battlefleet Gothic? It'd be an even more obvious copy of X-Wing, but when it first came out X-Wing was great! And people love Battlefleet Gothic! Has anyone ever really cared about 40k aeroplanes? I know I don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
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    Last edited by Wraith; 2019-08-30 at 04:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I'm sure that it will play fine and be enjoyable, but it's also one of the most blatantly lazy rip-offs that I've seen from GW.
    They made a big deal about how it was to scale with Adeptus Titanicus.

    Now all's I can think of when I see it is GW preparing for War(Hammer) Thunder 40K. Except instead of a tightly knit, balanced game with frequent updates, we'll get a game that costs hundreds and hundreds of currency and is poorly supported.

    I'm still waiting for GW to figure out how to make a MOBA out of a miniatures game.

    On a note unrelated to the above, you may wish to add the Thousand Sons Guide and mark Space Marines as Out of Date?
    You are correct. I do wish to do that. Very much so.
    I should also go through how Shock Assault affects Grey Knights - a lot.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-08-30 at 04:15 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Has anyone ever really cared about 40k aeroplanes? I know I don't.
    I care about them, but mostly from the perspective of someone who GMs the RPGs a lot. You never know when you might need the technical specs of a Lightning or something.
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destro_Yersul View Post
    I care about them, but mostly from the perspective of someone who GMs the RPGs a lot. You never know when you might need the technical specs of a Lightning or something.
    Surely one of the Only War splatbooks goes over Imperial Vehicles?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Destro_Yersul View Post
    I care about them, but mostly from the perspective of someone who GMs the RPGs a lot. You never know when you might need the technical specs of a Lightning or something.
    That's what Imperial Armour is for, including details as precise as the wingspan down to the literal centimetre.

    Seriously though, I'm not trying to **** on GW for developing their IP and turning their focus onto something that we haven't seen for a long time. I just wish they'd put some proper effort into it, and if I *am* being a little cynical, had chosen to focus on something less... dull, I guess?
    I know I'm saying that about thrilling aerial dog-fighting, but ultimately it's 'planes who aren't interacting with anything apart from other 'planes when it could be continent-sized spaceships, or building-sized floating tanks that could be using the same system?

    I realise how entitled and ungrateful that makes me sound, I just hope that it comes across at least a little as a compliment, based on the high expectations that I have from the 40k IP. "Just airplanes" is pretty tame, in comparison!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I'm still waiting for GW to figure out how to make a MOBA out of a miniatures game.
    40k does kind of lend itself to something like DOTA Auto-Chess, on reflection. Collect <ASTARTES> tribe and level up from Tactical Marine to Chapter Master, kind of thing, it's does seem quite fashionable at the moment.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2019-08-30 at 04:56 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    That's what Imperial Armour is for, including details as precise as the wingspan down to the literal centimetre.

    Seriously though, I'm not trying to **** on GW for developing their IP and turning their focus onto something that we haven't seen for a long time. I just wish they'd put some proper effort into it, and if I *am* being a little cynical, had chosen to focus on something less... dull, I guess?
    I know I'm saying that about thrilling aerial dog-fighting, but ultimately it's 'planes who aren't interacting with anything apart from other 'planes when it could be continent-sized spaceships, or building-sized floating tanks that could be using the same system?

    I realise how entitled and ungrateful that makes me sound, I just hope that it comes across at least a little as a compliment, based on the high expectations that I have from the 40k IP. "Just airplanes" is pretty tame, in comparison!
    This really is the crux of the issue for me as well. I suspect it’ll be a fun game, and nice miniatures, but it’s not iconic in the way Titans or imperial starships are. As a choice for a brand new game it’s very odd, particularly when Battlefleet Gothic is widely regarded with a lot of respect and is regularly mentioned as something worth bringing back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I know I'm saying that about thrilling aerial dog-fighting, but ultimately it's 'planes who aren't interacting with anything apart from other 'planes when it could be continent-sized spaceships, or building-sized floating tanks that could be using the same system?

    ..."Just airplanes" is pretty tame, in comparison!
    Like I said, it seems like the game plan is to pivot to War Thunder.

    40k does kind of lend itself to something like DOTA Auto-Chess, on reflection.
    ...I would play 40K Underlords. I really, really would.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Avaris View Post
    This really is the crux of the issue for me as well. I suspect it’ll be a fun game, and nice miniatures, but it’s not iconic in the way Titans or imperial starships are. As a choice for a brand new game it’s very odd, particularly when Battlefleet Gothic is widely regarded with a lot of respect and is regularly mentioned as something worth bringing back.
    Iconic, yes, that's the word I was hopelessly groping for. Thank you!

    Although, AI isn't a *new* game even as an IP. It was originally released in 2007 by Forgeworld, the difference being that it was in "Epic scale" (6mm, or 1:285).
    Apparently not many people remember this, or even knew about it in the first place... Which says all you need to know about the IP's popularity, when even the weirdos who adored Epic 40k and occasionally suggest it might return, don't remember AI'07

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Like I said, it seems like the game plan is to pivot to War Thunder.
    The solution to fixing an expensive game with a dull focus? Buy another, even more expensive game and include more boring stuff in that, too! It's just crazy enough to work!
    Last edited by Wraith; 2019-08-30 at 05:28 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Did someone say tabletop MOBA? Look at ELO Darkness. Checks all things that make MOBAs fun, including a jungler who never ganks (I swear I can never draw a jungler card). I feel a 40k version might not work so well since virtually everyone has a gun, but AoS would fit the theme.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    They made a big deal about how it was to scale with Adeptus Titanicus.

    Now all's I can think of when I see it is GW preparing for War(Hammer) Thunder 40K.
    Would that be, basically, "upscaled Epic Armageddon"? Makes sense if they're doing titans and planes to the same scale, to make them usable in the same game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollysword View Post
    Did someone say tabletop MOBA? Look at ELO Darkness...
    Nah.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    So, let's try this again! Questions and comments are in Blue

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Has anyone ever really cared about 40k aeroplanes? I know I don't.
    I mean I personally do but not this. I really like having flyer heavy support for my armies just because I prefer planes to tanks but Xwing never appealed to me and neither does this. Combined Arms>Tabletop Dogfighting simulator, and if I really wanted to fake dogfight I'd just play a flight sim video game.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    My problem is that I play X-Wing, so I already have my space dog-fight simulator, thank you very much. And my meta is alive and well, so it's not like I'm lacking games either.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    I found the original Aeronautica Imperialis books enjoyable enough to read. Don't know how enjoyable the game would actually have been to play though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    My problem is that I play X-Wing, so I already have my space dog-fight simulator, thank you very much.

    Except in some very early short stories, planes like Thunderhawks and Marauders are not really intended for space fighting - they're atmospheric fighters with very limited space capabilities.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post

    Except in some very early short stories, planes like Thunderhawks and Marauders are not really intended for space fighting - they're atmospheric fighters with very limited space capabilities.
    Ah, but all of the Star Wars fighters can fight in atmosphere, so clearly my in atmosphere dogfighting needs are met as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Nah.
    Rum & Bones was all I needed.
    Wasn't Judgement literally designed to be tabletop MOBA? It had draft phase, jungle creeps, and everything.

    But like most kickstarters, seems pretty dead.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I'm sure that it will play fine and be enjoyable, but it's also one of the most blatantly lazy rip-offs that I've seen from GW. And they were even lazy about their lazy rip-offs - Seriously, why didn't they set it in space and call it Battlefleet Gothic? It'd be an even more obvious copy of X-Wing, but when it first came out X-Wing was great! And people love Battlefleet Gothic! Has anyone ever really cared about 40k aeroplanes? I know I don't.
    Could we please get a re-release of Battlefleet Gothic? They even have a very good video game out right now which would help drive attention.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Could we please get a re-release of Battlefleet Gothic? They even have a very good video game out right now which would help drive attention.
    It's weird to me how little GW tries to tie-in products with it's videogames.

    Blood Bowl (the board game) was rereleased a full year after Blood Bowl 2 (the video game). Necromunda the TBS video game is still rumoured (I think?) to be next year, 2 years after the board game rerelease. Mordheim City of the Damned was completely ignored in favour of Betrayal At Calth. Both Total Warhammer AND Total Warhammer 2 AND Vermintide AND Vermindtide 2 were all based on the utterly defunct WHFB IP.

    Some of them you can understand - they couldn't really rerelease Mordheim while still designing and planning the launch for Shadespire, two skirmish-sized Fantasy systems launched concurrently would be cannibalising their own audience for a system that wasn't all that popular to begin with, but at least... I don't know, have it coincide with the AoS Skaven release, or make a revived push of Silver Tower or something vaguely similar?

    And why they have video games in released in 2019 for WHFB, which was euthanised in 2015, while there STILL isn't an Age of Sigmar video game.... Do they not know how much money they make from licensing their IPs out? And how much more they could stand to make just by advertising their own products at the same time?

    NOPE! Dawn of War 3 didn't exist! No exclusive Blood Raven Chapter Master miniature for you guys to celebrate the launch, or EVER!
    You don't know what it was like.
    You weren't there.
    You never fought in the Console Wars.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    So. Took a look at the rules for that Ares Gunship forgeworld put out.

    I can now understand why people might blanket ban forgeworld.

    It's a flying, Supersonic Knight Castellan with a 2+ Ballistic Skill and arguably better guns, and a bomber mechanic that could wipe out horde blobs fairly easily.

    For 300 fewer points.
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    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    It's weird to me how little GW tries to tie-in products with it's videogames.

    Blood Bowl (the board game) was rereleased a full year after Blood Bowl 2 (the video game). Necromunda the TBS video game is still rumoured (I think?) to be next year, 2 years after the board game rerelease. Mordheim City of the Damned was completely ignored in favour of Betrayal At Calth. Both Total Warhammer AND Total Warhammer 2 AND Vermintide AND Vermindtide 2 were all based on the utterly defunct WHFB IP.

    Some of them you can understand - they couldn't really rerelease Mordheim while still designing and planning the launch for Shadespire, two skirmish-sized Fantasy systems launched concurrently would be cannibalising their own audience for a system that wasn't all that popular to begin with, but at least... I don't know, have it coincide with the AoS Skaven release, or make a revived push of Silver Tower or something vaguely similar?

    And why they have video games in released in 2019 for WHFB, which was euthanised in 2015, while there STILL isn't an Age of Sigmar video game.... Do they not know how much money they make from licensing their IPs out? And how much more they could stand to make just by advertising their own products at the same time?

    NOPE! Dawn of War 3 didn't exist! No exclusive Blood Raven Chapter Master miniature for you guys to celebrate the launch, or EVER!
    It amazed me ever since Dawn of War came out. How many people got brought in because of that game? I did, and I brought two other people in with me.

    As for Mordheim, ya, I get that it was dead by that point, but you could have rereleased the old rulebook for those of us with no interest in AoS. As for why no AoS Total War? My guess would be that the setting itself doesn't lend itself well to their sort of campaign maps while WHFB was born for it.

    I always thought killing the setting just before all these good games came out was probably the dumbest move they ever made.

    And I'm just gonna keep being sad that Blood Ravens suck. Them being good may have gotten my rear end back into Space Marines
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    And I'm just gonna keep being sad that Blood Ravens suck.
    Aren't they a Chapter who specifically don't know who their Primarch is?
    Don't Blood Ravens have +1 to Advance and Charge, and can't they Advance and Shoot without penalties?
    Mine do. What are yours doing?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Aren't they a Chapter who specifically don't know who their Primarch is?
    Don't Blood Ravens have +1 to Advance and Charge, and can't they Advance and Shoot without penalties?
    Mine do. What are yours doing?
    They got chapter tactics in white dwarf last month apparently. I honestly don't know if those would count with the 2.0 codex since they were released before it hit, but only just.

    EDIT: So, apparently that's a combination of two of the traits available as choices for custom chapters. So probably intended to work post-2.0 Codex
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    They got chapter tactics in white dwarf last month apparently. I honestly don't know if those would count with the 2.0 codex since they were released before it hit, but only just.
    I think Cheese is trying to snarkily suggest "No, don't use the official rules, use the most advantageous Create-a-Chapter rules for them, and then call them Blood Ravens, since you aren't using any of the Special Stuff they get anyways."

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    They got chapter tactics in white dwarf last month apparently.
    Quote Originally Posted by DataNinja View Post
    I think Cheese is trying to snarkily suggest "No, don't use the official rules, use the most advantageous Create-a-Chapter rules for them, and then call them Blood Ravens, since you aren't using any of the Special Stuff they get anyways."
    Index Astartes: Blood Ravens was released on 19th of July.
    Codex: Space Marines was released on 17th of August.

    So, confirmed on Facebook...
    That means that the Codex's version of how Chapter Tactics works invalidates everything previously - including Crimson Fists.
    But, good news. The PR/Marketing team says that if I liked the version of Blood Ravens in White Dwarf, the options are there (no, marketing team, the rules are bad and we don't want to use them, that's why we're asking). But, since nothing is forcing you to use terrible Chapter Tactics, why would you?
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-08-30 at 08:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Aren't they a Chapter who specifically don't know who their Primarch is?
    Don't Blood Ravens have +1 to Advance and Charge, and can't they Advance and Shoot without penalties?
    Mine do. What are yours doing?
    Well they're doing that now, but mine can't do that without Gabriel, who sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Index Astartes: Blood Ravens was released on 19th of July.
    Codex: Space Marines was released on 17th of August.

    So, confirmed on Facebook...
    That means that the Codex's version of how Chapter Tactics works invalidates everything previously - including Crimson Fists.
    But, good news. The PR/Marketing team says that if I liked the version of Blood Ravens in White Dwarf, the options are there (no, marketing team, the rules are bad and we don't want to use them, that's why we're asking). But, since nothing is forcing you to use terrible Chapter Tactics, why would you?
    Wow... that reminds me so much of 7th edition for Chaos.

    "Here's this great thing"

    6 months later

    "Aaaand it's gone"
    Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2019-08-30 at 10:50 PM.
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