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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    So whats topping at Nova?

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Welp, it's the 31st. Deadline for the doubles tournament at the end of September.

    Spoiler: Doubles List
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    Imperial Fists, Battalion, Siegebreaker Cohort
    Captain in Phobos Armour; Master-Crafted Instigator Bolt Carbine, Camo Cloak, Vox Espiritum - 99 Points <SC>
    Chaplain; Storm Bolter, Catechism of Fire - 74 Points

    Scouts (x5); Boltguns, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter & Chainsword - 67 Points
    Scouts (x5); Boltguns, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter & Chainsword - 67 Points
    Scouts (x5); Boltguns, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter & Chainsword - 67 Points

    Apothecary - 50 Points
    (W) Primaris Ancient; Storm of Fire - 69 Points

    Centurion Devastators (x5); Heavy Bolters (x10), Hurricane Bolters (x5) - 350 Points <SC>
    Eliminators (x3); Bolt Sniper Rifles (x3), Camo Cloaks (x3) - 72 Points

    Reinforcements - 85 Points
    Operative Requisition Sanctioned

    Total: 1000 Points | 5 CPs

    Catachan, Supreme Command
    (W) Company Commander; Boltgun, Old Grudges - 31 Points
    Company Commander; Boltgun - 31 Points
    Company Commander; Boltgun - 31 Points

    Sergeant Harker - 50 Points

    Catachan, Spearhead, Emperor's Fist Tank Company
    Tank Commander; Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Hammer of Sunderance - 184 Points <EF>
    Tank Commander; Battle Cannon, Lascannon - 184 Points <EF>

    Infantry Squad; Mortar - 45 Points
    Infantry Squad; Boltgun - 41 Points

    Leman Russ Battle Tank; Heavy Bolter, Punisher Gatling Cannon - 150 Points <EF>
    Leman Russ Battle Tank; Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter - 150 Points <EF>
    Wyvern; Heavy Bolter - 103 Points

    Total: 1000 Points | 4 CPs

    I'd like him to drop Harker and add a third Infantry Squad to make a Battalion for +5 CPs, instead of 1. 10 more bodies plus more CPs. If you're going with Old Grudges, do you really need Harker? ...Yes. Apparently. Then again, if you don't lose friends during a doubles tournament, were you even partners? Today is the deadline and it's not like I can convince him after this. Here's hoping that the TO lets us re-write our lists for post-NOVA FAQs change everything.


    Qs
    1. Reinforcements are not part of an army list (as per the rulings on Summoning Daemons), do Space Marines still get Combat Doctrines if they include an Assassin?
    2. Vox Espiritum & Phobos Captain's Omni-Scrambler, lol or no?

    I think we'll do okay.

    I suspect the TO will give us leniency with the post-NOVA FAQ 4.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-08-31 at 12:20 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    It's weird to me how little GW tries to tie-in products with it's videogames.

    Blood Bowl (the board game) was rereleased a full year after Blood Bowl 2 (the video game). Necromunda the TBS video game is still rumoured (I think?) to be next year, 2 years after the board game rerelease. Mordheim City of the Damned was completely ignored in favour of Betrayal At Calth. Both Total Warhammer AND Total Warhammer 2 AND Vermintide AND Vermindtide 2 were all based on the utterly defunct WHFB IP.

    Some of them you can understand - they couldn't really rerelease Mordheim while still designing and planning the launch for Shadespire, two skirmish-sized Fantasy systems launched concurrently would be cannibalising their own audience for a system that wasn't all that popular to begin with, but at least... I don't know, have it coincide with the AoS Skaven release, or make a revived push of Silver Tower or something vaguely similar?

    And why they have video games in released in 2019 for WHFB, which was euthanised in 2015, while there STILL isn't an Age of Sigmar video game.... Do they not know how much money they make from licensing their IPs out? And how much more they could stand to make just by advertising their own products at the same time?

    NOPE! Dawn of War 3 didn't exist! No exclusive Blood Raven Chapter Master miniature for you guys to celebrate the launch, or EVER!
    The thing to remember about GW is its management is utterly dysfunctional (or at least has been historically: I believe the change of CEO a few years back is improving it somewhat, but that takes time). There are many different departments, each of which is basically working in a silo. Where they interact with each other it is by telling people what they’re doing, not by thinking about how they can work together.

    In terms of the minatures ranges, you have three different studios: AoS, 40k and Boxed games (at least: I’m unclear how the actual minatures design studio fits in; they may be seperate or embedded). I assume that each of these studios are required either to bid for release slots or are told centrally which slots they need to fill. They don’t coordinate to ensure that the products they release don’t fill the same niche, that’s how you get two games based around small numbers of models with a high focus on movement and playing on a small board released within weeks of each other (Aeronautica Imperialis releasing so soon after Warcry is a mistake).

    Licenced games is a seperate department entirely, brand. GW has only recently realised how valuable its brand is outside the company, and how many people will jump at the chance to use it. All of the video games coming out will be because someone approached GW saying ‘can we use this bit of the IP’, rather than GW looking for people to make a game. Because if this, it has no relation to GW’s own release schedule or plans (with some exceptions: Blood Bowl 3 has been announced, and the developer of that seemed to indicate it would be released alongside a new edition of the game in 2020).

    Basically, we tend to see GW as a single monolithic entity, a box out of which a steady flow of stuff comes out in a fashion we assume is logical. In reality the box is full of an unknown number of cats, each doing its own thing, occasionally scratching each other and occasionally getting close enough to the exit of the box for something to come out as a release.

    As another analogy, people may be familiar with the story of the blind men trying to describe an elephant. In that analogy, GW is a herd of elephants, perhaps with a giraffe thrown in as well. We can feel particular parts of it and think we have an idea of the elephant, but those impressions we get don’t apply sensibly to the whole company.

    It’s insane. Which is why I find it interesting.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    You'd get so rocked by 1k sons + friend; or even a planes + friends list. There is a lot of confidence being put on BS4 models and BS3 models with no invulnerable who go to 'no hit' in a couple of shots.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    You'd get so rocked by 1k sons + friend
    As long as Vox Espiritum + Omni-Scrambler works like I think it does, Tzaangor spam is a non-factor. Especially if I place my Scouts correctly for board control on Turn 1. Dark Matter Crystal can't do **** if your opponent is outisde their DZ before Turn 1.
    Ideally, Thousand Sons' Smite-spam gets demolished by placing a Culexus in the front of our DZ.

    There is a lot of confidence being put on BS4 models and BS3 models with no invulnerable who go to 'no hit' in a couple of shots.
    Hence why we have a lot of them.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-08-31 at 12:52 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Welp, it's the 31st. Deadline for the doubles tournament at the end of September.

    Spoiler: Doubles List
    Show
    Imperial Fists, Battalion, Siegebreaker Cohort
    Captain in Phobos Armour; Master-Crafted Instigator Bolt Carbine, Camo Cloak, Vox Espiritum - 99 Points <SC>
    Chaplain; Storm Bolter, Catechism of Fire - 74 Points

    Scouts (x5); Boltguns, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter & Chainsword - 67 Points
    Scouts (x5); Boltguns, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter & Chainsword - 67 Points
    Scouts (x5); Boltguns, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter & Chainsword - 67 Points

    Apothecary - 50 Points
    (W) Primaris Ancient; Storm of Fire - 69 Points

    Centurion Devastators (x5); Heavy Bolters (x10), Hurricane Bolters (x5) - 350 Points <SC>
    Eliminators (x3); Bolt Sniper Rifles (x3), Camo Cloaks (x3) - 72 Points

    Reinforcements - 85 Points
    Operative Requisition Sanctioned

    Total: 1000 Points | 5 CPs

    Catachan, Supreme Command
    (W) Company Commander; Boltgun, Old Grudges - 31 Points
    Company Commander; Boltgun - 31 Points
    Company Commander; Boltgun - 31 Points

    Sergeant Harker - 50 Points

    Catachan, Spearhead, Emperor's Fist Tank Company
    Tank Commander; Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Hammer of Sunderance - 184 Points <EF>
    Tank Commander; Battle Cannon, Lascannon - 184 Points <EF>

    Infantry Squad; Mortar - 45 Points
    Infantry Squad; Boltgun - 41 Points

    Leman Russ Battle Tank; Heavy Bolter, Punisher Gatling Cannon - 150 Points <EF>
    Leman Russ Battle Tank; Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter - 150 Points <EF>
    Wyvern; Heavy Bolter - 103 Points

    Total: 1000 Points | 4 CPs

    I'd like him to drop Harker and add a third Infantry Squad to make a Battalion for +5 CPs, instead of 1. 10 more bodies plus more CPs. If you're going with Old Grudges, do you really need Harker? ...Yes. Apparently. Then again, if you don't lose friends during a doubles tournament, were you even partners? Today is the deadline and it's not like I can convince him after this. Here's hoping that the TO lets us re-write our lists for post-NOVA FAQs change everything.


    Qs
    1. Reinforcements are not part of an army list (as per the rulings on Summoning Daemons), do Space Marines still get Combat Doctrines if they include an Assassin?
    2. Vox Espiritum & Phobos Captain's Omni-Scrambler, lol or no?

    I think we'll do okay.

    I suspect the TO will give us leniency with the post-NOVA FAQ 4.
    Why does your friend have a supreme command of company commanders?
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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Why does your friend have a supreme command of company commanders?
    No idea. Luckily he's changed it. He's refusing to drop Harker, which is fair. But I don't know why he has the Commanders, so at least he's making a Battalion.
    I'll try and see if I can force him to put in a few Astropaths.

    2 hours 'til deadline, lol.

    EDIT: Now he's talking about adding Scout Sentinels. *headdesk*
    EDIT II: LansXero is right about Aeldari Planes though. We'd be relying a lot on the Centurions to roll 6s.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-08-31 at 01:01 AM.
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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    EDIT II: LansXero is right about Aeldari Planes though. We'd be relying a lot on the Centurions to roll 6s.
    Alaitoc planes are -3 under the strat, so untouchable to Leman Russes. As for your non-deploying trick, scouts blow up to a single smite. What exactly is the other team rushing to deep strike into? might as well just walk and demolish everything, as troops will still soak up battle cannon shots on their 5++, you cant touch characters until they're gone, Eliminators have a sucktastic 36" range and no AP so can be saved for days and the Culexus has no armor beyond her 4++. Sure, its an annoyance, but Ahriman doesnt mind, Daemon Princes can fly away from her aura and she only has a 4++ with no regular save and less than 6 wounds, so even charging tzaangors will beat her to death, specially if you just show up on front of your opponents DZ.


    Enjoy:

    Supreme Command Detachment (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [997pts]

    HQ

    Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch
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    Exalted Sorcerer on Disc of Tzeentch

    Elites

    Tzaangor Shaman

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    Magnus the Red

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    I think Cheese's plan against that is to just score more points than the enemy during the turn or 2 they still live, and just not care that he got obliterated.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    I think Cheese's plan against that is to just score more points than the enemy during the turn or 2 they still live, and just not care that he got obliterated.
    Thats a pretty optimistic plan as its entirely not on your control. The enemy can score Big Game Hunter, Master the Warp, etc. while you keep drawing 'defend X' and seeing your cappers not last a turn. Thats less of a plan and more of a 'well might as well' though.

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Turns out trying to play fair was too hard.

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    Imperial Fists, Battalion, Siegebreaker Cohort
    Captain in Phobos Armour; Master-Crafted Instigator Bolt Carbine, Camo Cloak, Vox Espiritum - 99 Points <SC>
    Chaplain; Storm Bolter, Catechism of Fire - 74 Points

    Scouts (x5); Boltguns, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter & Chainsword - 67 Points
    Scouts (x5); Boltguns, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter & Chainsword - 67 Points
    Scouts (x5); Boltguns, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter & Chainsword - 67 Points

    Apothecary - 50 Points
    (W) Primaris Ancient; Storm of Fire - 69 Points

    Centurion Devastators (x5); Heavy Bolters (x10), Hurricane Bolters (x5) - 350 Points <SC>
    Eliminators (x3); Bolt Sniper Rifles (x3), Camo Cloaks (x3) - 72 Points

    Reinforcements - 85 Points
    Operative Requisition Sanctioned

    Total: 1000 Points | 5 CPs

    Catachan, Brigade, Emperor's Fist Tank Company
    Tank Commander; Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Hammer of Sunderance - 184 Points
    Tank Commander; Battle Cannon, Lascannon - 184 Points
    Primaris Psyker; Force Stave - 46 Points

    Infantry Squad; Mortar - 45 Points
    Infantry Squad - 40 Points
    Infantry Squad - 40 Points
    Infantry Squad - 40 Points
    Infantry Squad - 40 Points
    MT Scions (x5); Plasma Guns (x2) - 67 Points

    Tech-Priest Enginseer - 30 Points
    Tech-Priest Enginseer - 30 Points
    Sergeant Harker - 50 Points

    Scout Sentinel; Multi-Laser - 35 Points
    Scout Sentinel; Multi-Laser - 35 Points
    Scout Sentinel; Multi-Laser - 35 Points

    Heavy Weapons Squad; Mortars (x3) - 33 Points
    Heavy Weapons Squad; Mortars (x3) - 33 Points
    Heavy Weapons Squad; Mortars (x3) - 33 Points

    Total: 1000 Points | 16 CPs
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Turns out trying to play fair was too hard.
    Wow. That list is a whole different kind of animal (probably a fire ant colony, I'd say).

    At least now you have Russes and Plasmaguns that can hit -3 planes on 6s (with some amount of rerolls) if you have to. And if anyone tries to horde up...so much infantry-class dakka.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Hootman View Post
    Wow. That list is a whole different kind of animal (probably a fire ant colony, I'd say).
    Yeah. The list started off with 'How many T8 can I put in 1000 Points?', however there were several problems. And each change required dropping a Tank, and then another one, and then another one...

    Until it was a case of 'Why bother trying something different? Guard is Guard. Dont try being clever.'

    Which I guess is the reality of competitive play.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    So... I tweaked my 1000 point Space Wolves a tad. I was also workshopping a list adding in the contents of Start Collecting: Space Wolves, but the new Space Marine codex foreshadowing massive changes to the price of thunderhammers has me wary of building any characters. Or even buying much until Chapter Approved 2019 hits. So, here's version 3.0

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    ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [57 PL, 9CP, 994pts] ++

    + HQ +

    Bjorn the Fell-handed [12 PL, 1CP, 216pts]
    -Warlord

    Rune Priest in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 103pts] Now costs the same as a non-Primaris Rune Priest with the same Wargear! And less than a regular Primaris Rune Priest!
    -Mind Raid, Storm Caller, Wulfenstone

    + Troops +

    Grey Hunters [6 PL, 119pts]
    -Chainswords, Meltagun
    -Wolf Guard Pack Leader with Combi-melta and Power Fist

    Grey Hunters [6 PL, 119pts]
    -Chainswords, Meltagun
    -Wolf Guard Pack Leader with Combi-melta and Power Fist

    Infiltrator Squad [5 PL, 110pts]

    + Elites +

    Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour [13 PL, 195pts]
    -2x Wolf Claw+ Storm Bolter
    -Power fist+ Storm Bolter
    -Wolf Claw+ Assault Cannon
    -Pack Leader with Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield

    + Dedicated Transport +

    Drop Pod [5 PL, 65pts]

    Drop Pod [5 PL, 65pts] I could drop to 1 drop pod, but that halves the number of meltaguns I have due to cutting the Pack Leaders for space.

    ++ Total: [57 PL, 9CP, 992pts] ++

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    I'm not entirely sure about the Terminator Squad, but I had a 200 point hole, and needed something to draw fire away from Bjorn if I'm going second. Alternative stuff I have include

    -5 Wolf Guard Bikers with Storm Bolters and Storm Shields
    -Suppressors and Eliminators
    -3 Thunderwolves; a Pack leader with a Powerfist and Storm shield (Never saw the point of paying 5 points for concussive), one with a Storm shield and Chainsword, and one with a bolt pistol and chainsword, although I can easily call the chainswords frost swords since the difference comes down to the color of the chainswords' teeth.
    -A 3rd drop pod with more Grey Hunters. Getting some blood claws is on the to do list once I'm confident of what I want to buy.

    Another possibility is switching to just 1 drop pod, and going with a single pack of 9 Grey Hunters+Wolf Guard pack leader. The 3rd troop would have to be Intercessors or more Grey Hunters, though.

    Edit: Alternate, bike-focused list

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    HQ: Wolf Lord on Bike -121 points (Warlord)
    -Thunderhammer, Storm Shield, Wulfenstone, Saga of the Wolfkin

    Bjorn the Fell-Handed -216 points

    Troops: 9 Grey Hunters -190 points
    -Chainswords, 2 Meltaguns
    -Pack Leader with Power Axe
    -Wolf Guard Pack Leader with Combi-melta and Power Fist

    5 Intercessors -89 points
    -Bolt Rifles, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher
    -Pack Leader with Power Sword

    5 Infiltrators -110 points

    Elites- 5 Wolf Guard Bikers -205 points
    -Storm Shields and Storm Bolters
    -Pack Leader with Frost Sword and Storm Bolter

    Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod -65 points

    Totals: 996 points, 9 CP
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Talking about points, how do you all feel that when I went to the flagship store for my area, the shopkeepers say even they prefer just using power rating instead of using points whenever they play?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollysword View Post
    Talking about points, how do you all feel that when I went to the flagship store for my area, the shopkeepers say even they prefer just using power rating instead of using points whenever they play?
    They are strange outliers. Seriously, that system is stupidly easy to beak. Even on accident.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollysword View Post
    Talking about points, how do you all feel that when I went to the flagship store for my area, the shopkeepers say even they prefer just using power rating instead of using points whenever they play?
    That's an interesting meta, and it's cool to see that some places are using power level as their go to.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    new Space Marine codex foreshadowing massive changes to the price of thunderhammers has me wary of building any characters.
    Black Death is better anyway.
    The reason you put Thunder Hammers on Characters is because they can Fly, and thus jump over models and Fight twice vs. a Knight. Unless you're running a Wolf Lord with Jump Pack, a Thunder Hammer really isn't necessary. Black Death does the job just fine, and, since you're Space Wolves, even Power Fists are okay.

    Rune Priest in Phobos Armour; Force Sword, Mind Raid, Storm Caller, Wulfenstone
    On a Phobos Priest, I'm a big fan of Fury of the Wolf Spirits. Set up 9" away, move and then make a 3" Charge.
    With Wulfenstone up, you'll have 11 Attacks, and Fight again for 22 in a single phase. If your Rune Priest dies 'cause your opponent makes return swings before you Fight for the second time, that's better, because Only in Death... is 2CPs, instead of 3, and you don't have to wait 'til the end of phase for OiDDE to proc.

    1 single model, making 22 S5, AP-3 Attacks for ~100 Points, is efficiency most Codecies can't even comprehend, let alone put on the table.

    I'm not entirely sure about the Terminator Squad, but I had a 200 point hole
    Long Fangs.

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    I strongly advise against running Bike lists at least until 'Warhammer Legends' happens, and Wolf Guard on Bikes come back into the game, with Shock Assault added.
    But until that time, ThunderCav **** on Wolf Guard, and even then, the meta knows about Custodes' Jetbikes, which are even better than ThunderCav.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollysword View Post
    Talking about points, how do you all feel that when I went to the flagship store for my area, the shopkeepers say even they prefer just using power rating instead of using points whenever they play?
    Who's 'they'? The shopkeeper themselves, or the meta?
    The shopkeepers probably prefer Power Rating because it's not in their interest to play competitively. My own Blackshirt prefers Power Rating, and he prefers telling people about Power Rating, because it's explicitly designed to get you onto the table (playing games for free publicity) faster. It's easier to comprehend which means new younger players can get into the game easier because there's less maths involved, and there's more hobby involved which means 'playing for fun' becomes a perceived priority. Which means recruitment happens better/easier.

    I live 'close' (in Australian, relative terms) to the Australian Championship Store, and I guarantee you that they're using points.

    My local Blackshirt is also strongly against Battlescribe as it provides direct competition to GW, in a way that a brick-and-mortar GW can't possibly hope to compete with - that is, cheap-as-free. But what's he gonna do, confiscate your phone? **** off. But just 'cause my Blackshirt says that Battlescribe is bad, doesn't mean it is.

    GW Blackshirts - especially in Australia, at least - are not required to have product knowledge. They are hired as salesmen first, hobbyists second, and as gamers a far, far, far third (IMO from talking to like, six different Blackshirts in the last five years). Saying that you have 3000 Points each in four different armies across both 40K and AoS is actually less likely to get you employed by GW. Their goal is to sell you things - even if you don't actually want them.

    TL;DR: Don't listen to shopkeepers. Unless they're like LansXero or Renegade_Paladin.
    But seriously. Do listen to your shopkeepers if they're trying to tell you about your local meta. Be careful when they talk though, as they are salesmen, and they will tell you what they think you want to hear.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    The shopkeepers probably prefer Power Rating because it's not in their interest to play competitively. My own Blackshirt prefers Power Rating, and he prefers telling people about Power Rating, because it's explicitly designed to get you onto the table (playing games for free publicity) faster. It's easier to comprehend which means new younger players can get into the game easier because there's less maths involved, and there's more hobby involved which means 'playing for fun' becomes a perceived priority. Which means recruitment happens better/easier.

    I live 'close' (in Australian, relative terms) to the Australian Championship Store, and I guarantee you that they're using points.

    My local Blackshirt is also strongly against Battlescribe as it provides direct competition to GW, in a way that a brick-and-mortar GW can't possibly hope to compete with - that is, cheap-as-free. But what's he gonna do, confiscate your phone? **** off. But just 'cause my Blackshirt says that Battlescribe is bad, doesn't mean it is.

    GW Blackshirts - especially in Australia, at least - are not required to have product knowledge. They are hired as salesmen first, hobbyists second, and as gamers a far, far, far third (IMO from talking to like, six different Blackshirts in the last five years). Saying that you have 3000 Points each in four different armies across both 40K and AoS is actually less likely to get you employed by GW. Their goal is to sell you things - even if you don't actually want them.

    TL;DR: Don't listen to shopkeepers. Unless they're like LansXero or Renegade_Paladin.
    But seriously. Do listen to your shopkeepers if they're trying to tell you about your local meta. Be careful when they talk though, as they are salesmen, and they will tell you what they think you want to hear.
    I'm in Sydney, and I went to the flagship store in Town Hall. I did refer to the people working there preferring just quick casual games with power over points. They also don't seem to be just trying to sell me whatever, sounded like they want to be sure I'm getting what I want when I ask them about my plans.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollysword View Post
    I did refer to the people working there preferring just quick casual games with power over points.
    If they're looking for quick PUGs, then yes, it makes sense.
    It's still a bad system if you try harder than not-at-all, or you accidentally like certain pieces of wargear that ordinarily would be super expensive (Thunder Hammers, looking at you).

    They also don't seem to be just trying to sell me whatever, sounded like they want to be sure I'm getting what I want when I ask them about my plans.
    Your Blackshirt(s) are a lot more scrupulous than mine. But I suppose if you're in the heart of Sydney you've got the customer base to basically sell anything you want, and achieving KPIs and ATVs isn't so much of a priority.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Your Blackshirt(s) are a lot more scrupulous than mine. But I suppose if you're in the heart of Sydney you've got the customer base to basically sell anything you want, and achieving KPIs and ATVs isn't so much of a priority.
    There was also quite a lot of focus on teaching blackshirts not to pressure sell by the Australian management supervisor for quite a few years, so if the store manager was hired/trained by Josh (who has unfortunately moved on now), there's a better than even chance that the manager isn't a total flog (though it is Sydney...).

    Doesn't mean he doesn't want to sell you stuff, just that a thriving community built on trust and respect gets more long term sales while also providing a pretty chill place to hang out and paint or game, which in turn also tends to generate more sales, not only from the free advertising of a full store actively playing games, but also due to more lists, more discussion, more hype, more tournaments and more cool ideas getting thrown around.

    As for hitting KPI's, if you think that Sydney's targets aren't significantly higher than North Queensland, then you need to replace the captain of your brain ship 'cause he's drunk at the wheel.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Black Death is better anyway.
    The reason you put Thunder Hammers on Characters is because they can Fly, and thus jump over models and Fight twice vs. a Knight. Unless you're running a Wolf Lord with Jump Pack, a Thunder Hammer really isn't necessary. Black Death does the job just fine, and, since you're Space Wolves, even Power Fists are okay.
    Good to know. How does the Ironfang of Ammagrimgul (The stalker pack specific Power Axe relic. D3 damage, or D3 Mortal Wounds on an unmodified 6 to wound) stand up. Worth spending a CP for a 2nd relic?
    On a Phobos Priest, I'm a big fan of Fury of the Wolf Spirits. Set up 9" away, move and then make a 3" Charge.
    With Wulfenstone up, you'll have 11 Attacks, and Fight again for 22 in a single phase. If your Rune Priest dies 'cause your opponent makes return swings before you Fight for the second time, that's better, because Only in Death... is 2CPs, instead of 3, and you don't have to wait 'til the end of phase for OiDDE to proc.

    1 single model, making 22 S5, AP-3 Attacks for ~100 Points, is efficiency most Codecies can't even comprehend, let alone put on the table.
    24. Shock Assault ... But, I don't think bringing that to my first game is a good way to make a good first impression. Although since Psychic powers are chosen when the game starts, I'll keep that in the back of my head in case I'm staring down hordes of poxwalkers or the like.

    Where is the Rune Priest getting S5, though?.
    Thunderwolf Cavalry
    So I'm kind of at a loss as to how I would equip these guys, tbh. Suggestions?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Good to know. How does the Ironfang of Ammagrimgul (The stalker pack specific Power Axe relic.
    Forgot about that. No. That's the best weapon Space Wolves have. I don't think it's worth running no Blood Claws and no Wulfen to get it.
    But of the very, very, few competitive players who still play Space Wolves... Every single one of them is running the Stalker Pack, and every single one of them is taking that Axe.

    Where is the Rune Priest getting S5, though?
    'Kay. Some are S4, some are S5. You got me.
    EDIT: In actuality, I forgot that Phobos Priests don't have Axes.

    Where is the Rune Priest getting S5, though?. So I'm kind of at a loss as to how I would equip these guys, tbh. Suggestions?
    I like Wolf Claw & Storm Shield. Depending on how many models you have, you might chuck a Hammer in, just in case.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-09-01 at 07:16 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Picked up the new Marines codex yesterday and flipping through it, I guess Terminator ancients are a thing now? Which, sure, but presumably that would be a conversion,?Which makes me slightly disgruntled that we can't, say, swap a Phobos librarian's force sword for an axe when that would also be a simple conversion.

    Not sure why I was driven to post this, guess as I said I'm just slightly disgruntled:D
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrastos42 View Post
    I guess Terminator ancients are a thing now? Which, sure, but presumably that would be a conversion?
    ...I wouldn't presume that. My guess is that there's a Terminator Ancient coming down the line, released with one of the Supplements.
    But, releasing a Terminator model feels like GW going backwards to old!Marines. So I doubt it.
    So, maybe it is a conversion opportunity?

    I actually forgot that Codex Marines don't have a Terminator Ancient, while Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Grey Knights, do. I thought they all did.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Ah, it does seem less surprising if DA and BA had them as well, I had thought it was a grey knights only thing until now.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    TL;DR: Don't listen to shopkeepers. Unless they're like LansXero or Renegade_Paladin.
    I have the great advantage of not being a shopkeeper. I'm a volunteer event organizer; selling things is my secondary concern, and only because I want the lights to stay on and people to have armies to play with. But the actual shopkeepers here are good to listen to as well, because they're running an event venue as much or more than they're running a game shop; the real money is made on tournament fees, mostly for M:tG.
    Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2019-09-01 at 12:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    the real money is made on tournament fees, mostly for M:tG.
    I've yet to find the store for which this is true that didnt go down in less than a year. Most of the time its singles (because its a pawn shop scheme) and sealed that carry the load, with event entries making even at best, loss as marketing at worse.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    I've yet to find the store for which this is true that didnt go down in less than a year. Most of the time its singles (because its a pawn shop scheme) and sealed that carry the load, with event entries making even at best, loss as marketing at worse.
    The business is in its eighth year and bought out their landlord two years ago; don't know what to tell you. *shrug* There's obviously a brisk business in Magic cards, but people can buy booster packs at Walmart now; if it weren't for events the store would definitely sink because no one would have much reason to buy cards there either.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    The business is in its eighth year and bought out their landlord two years ago; don't know what to tell you. *shrug* There's obviously a brisk business in Magic cards, but people can buy booster packs at Walmart now; if it weren't for events the store would definitely sink because no one would have much reason to buy cards there either.
    Of of course, but there is a huge difference between "living off sales motivated by events" and "living off event fees alone".

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