Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

[Squark]

Couple of rules questions;
1) The Stalker Pack applies to Blood Claws, Battle Leaders, and Reivers (Wolf scouts are apparently left behind >.>). Since Swiftclaw Bikers and Skyclaws have the <Blood Claw> keyword, they can be part of a stalker pack, correct?

2)Wolf Lords on Bikes use the Space Marine Captain on a Bike datasheet. This datasheet has had its price adjusted by virtue of being in the Space Marines Codex (at least the original one). Does this apply to Wolf Lords on bikes as well?

[Cheesegear]

Couple of rules questions;
1) The Stalker Pack applies to Blood Claws, Battle Leaders, and Reivers (Wolf scouts are apparently left behind >.>). Since Swiftclaw Bikers and Skyclaws have the <Blood Claw> keyword, they can be part of a stalker pack, correct?

Anything can be part of the Detachment, but not everything gains the abilities.
But yes. That is how Keywords work. Swiftclaws can be affected by Stalker Pack Stratagems.

2)Wolf Lords on Bikes use the Space Marine Captain on a Bike datasheet. This datasheet has had its price adjusted by virtue of being in the Space Marines Codex (at least the original one). Does this apply to Wolf Lords on bikes as well?

EDIT: No. Wolf Lord on Bike is an Index unit and has nothing to do with the Space Marine Codex.

[Meatgrinder]

I would like to point out that Suppression Fire stacks with the Thunderfire Cannon's Tremor Shells strat.

For even more cheese, I've seen people take Sergeant Chronus and put him in the FW Whirlwind Scorpius, which can innately shoot twice with its main gun. And I think it has some form of movement-slowing debuff on it, but I'm not sure. Lovely stuff.

[Squark]

Anything can be part of the Detachment, but not everything gains the abilities.
But yes. That is how Keywords work. Swiftclaws can be affected by Stalker Pack Stratagems.

Just checking. I'm going off a wiki written by salty 4chan dwellers, not the official book, so I wanted to be sure that it was the Blood Claw keyword that was important.

On a related note, when I'm brainstorming, I'm a little stumped as to how I would use the Blood Claws in a stalker pack. The newly buffed drop pods are the obvious first choice, but 9" charges are not exactly a sure thing. Putting them in rhinos means the metal boxes get shot at for a turn before they drop the Blood Claws off. That leaves footslogging, which isn't exactly ideal. Actually, do you have a link to the competitive Space Wolves lists you've mentioned? I'm kind of at a loss as to where to find such things (My Google-fu is weak).

EDIT: No. Wolf Lord on Bike is an Index unit and has nothing to do with the Space Marine Codex.

Okay. Wasn't sure, since the wording in the index, "The Following Space Marines datasheets can be from the Space Wolves Chapter..." is rather ambiguous as to whether the Space Marine Codex supercedes version of the datasheet supercedes the Space Marines Index version.

[xroads]

Which is a better starter army, Tyranids or Genestealers Cult? I like the aesthetic of both armies, but not sure of which one to pick.

Also, I know the GC can use allies from either the Tyranids or Astra Militarum. But can the Tyranids use allies from GC or AM?

[JNAProductions]

Which is a better starter army, Tyranids or Genestealers Cult? I like the aesthetic of both armies, but not sure of which one to pick.

Also, I know the GC can use allies from either the Tyranids or Astra Militarum. But can the Tyranids use allies from GC or AM?

Nids can use Imperial Guard, but ONLY if they have a GSC detachment. GSC is kinda the binding agent between Nids and Guard.

[Forum Explorer]

Always be in Cover when 12<" away.
Always use top row of Damage table.
Play Duty Eternal.

It's a really gross combo and it's so hard to deal with. Annoyingly, only if it's a Forge World model. All of the Dreadnaughts in the Codex itself are perfectly fine. I absolutely hate it when that happens.

Just checking. I'm going off a wiki written by salty 4chan dwellers, not the official book, so I wanted to be sure that it was the Blood Claw keyword that was important.

On a related note, when I'm brainstorming, I'm a little stumped as to how I would use the Blood Claws in a stalker pack. The newly buffed drop pods are the obvious first choice, but 9" charges are not exactly a sure thing. Putting them in rhinos means the metal boxes get shot at for a turn before they drop the Blood Claws off. That leaves footslogging, which isn't exactly ideal. Actually, do you have a link to the competitive Space Wolves lists you've mentioned? I'm kind of at a loss as to where to find such things (My Google-fu is weak).Okay. Wasn't sure, since the wording in the index, "The Following Space Marines datasheets can be from the Space Wolves Chapter..." is rather ambiguous as to whether the Space Marine Codex supercedes version of the datasheet supercedes the Space Marines Index version.

Take a Stormwolf, and load it up with some 14-15 Blood Claws. Stormwolves are really expensive, but I think you can run two without it being too much of a drain, since they play so many roles for your army. They give you a way to get your Blood Claws and characters into combat, provide anti-tank, and anti-infantry, and their -1 to hit means they are decently durable. Just try to avoid going into Hover Mode if you can help it. I know it's really tempting to unload into a character, but it's typically not worth it if it means your Stormwolf gets charged by enemy melee units that couldn't reach it before, (like Genestealers) or shot down now it lacks the -1 to be hit.

Since you've rejected the two go to Space Wolf units (Wolfen and Thunderwolves), both of which are really expensive, you might have the points to pull that off.

Which is a better starter army, Tyranids or Genestealers Cult? I like the aesthetic of both armies, but not sure of which one to pick.

Also, I know the GC can use allies from either the Tyranids or Astra Militarum. But can the Tyranids use allies from GC or AM?

Tyranids are the better starter army. Genestealer Cults have a lot of weird mechanics and extra stuff which can be confusing for a new player. Tyranids are much more straight forward and can be as complex or as simple as you like.

Tyranids can use allies from GC, but in order to have allies from AM, they first need allies from GC. Typically speaking though, the only allies Tyranids want from AM are Tank Commanders. I've seen a Tyranid Brigade combo'd with a Genestealer Cult Supreme Command and then a Guard Supreme Command to get three Tank Commanders.

[Squark]

Take a Stormwolf, and load it up with some 14-15 Blood Claws. Stormwolves are really expensive, but I think you can run two without it being too much of a drain, since they play so many roles for your army. They give you a way to get your Blood Claws and characters into combat, provide anti-tank, and anti-infantry, and their -1 to hit means they are decently durable. Just try to avoid going into Hover Mode if you can help it. I know it's really tempting to unload into a character, but it's typically not worth it if it means your Stormwolf gets charged by enemy melee units that couldn't reach it before, (like Genestealers) or shot down now it lacks the -1 to be hit.

Since you've rejected the two go to Space Wolf units (Wolfen and Thunderwolves), both of which are really expensive, you might have the points to pull that off.

I'm not entirely opposed to those units. My knee-jerk reaction was more "Goddamnit GW. Stop making Space Wolves a meme army." In moderation, I can tolerate TWC, and quietly pretend the 13th company retcon never happened.

[Cheesegear]

For even more cheese, I've seen people take Sergeant Chronus and put him in the FW Whirlwind Scorpius, which can innately shoot twice with its main gun.

That isn't cheese. That's just putting good things with even more good things.

I'm a little stumped as to how I would use the Blood Claws in a stalker pack.

Wulfen.

Actually, do you have a link to the competitive Space Wolves lists you've mentioned?

Negative. But it goes a little something like this...

Battalion, Stalker Pack
Bjorn the Fell-Handed; Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer
WGBL on Thunderwolf; Power Axe, Storm Shield

Blood Claws (x5)
Blood Claws (x5)
Blood Claws (x5)
Blood Claws (x5)
Blood Claws (x5)

Wulfen (x5); Frost Claws, Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield (x2)
Wulfen (x5); Frost Claws, Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield (x2)
Wulfen (x5); Frost Claws, Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield (x2)

Supreme Command
Harald Deathwolf
WGBL on Thunderwolf; Thunder Hammer*, Storm Shield
WGBL on Thunderwolf; Thunder Hammer*, Storm Shield
Njal Stormcaller

Murderfang

*These would definitely not be Thunder Hammers in the near future. My guess is they'd probably make the switch to Power Fists.

Wasn't sure, since the wording in the index

I strongly suggest you ignore everything in the Indecies. GW has announced that they are definitely leaving the game in the very near future.

Which is a better starter army, Tyranids or Genestealers Cult? I like the aesthetic of both armies, but not sure of which one to pick.

Tyranids. They have an SC! box which isn't totally terrible.
Playing GSC essentially means that you're setting your wallet on fire, and it will continue burning forever.

"Goddamnit GW. Stop making Space Wolves a meme army."

I think at this point all armies are meme armies.
The problem with Space Wolves, is that its meme, is a Furry meme, and thus, is the worst meme.

[xroads]

So far it's sounding like Tyranids are the clear winner...

...or they will be once the Hive Mind consumes this pitiful galaxy! Mua Ha Ha Ha!

No but seriously, thanks for the suggestions.

Tyranids. They have an SC! box which isn't totally terrible.
Playing GSC essentially means that you're setting your wallet on fire, and it will continue burning forever.

Yeah, I started getting that impression as I've been reading about them. Though, it also sounds like the Tyranid wallet burns fairly well itself. Even without all that lovely dieselpunk fuel.

[Cheesegear]

Though, it also sounds like the Tyranid wallet burns fairly well itself.

Not as bad though - not that I've run the numbers.

In AUD:
Acolyte Hybrids run $70 for 5, and
Termagants run $48 for 10.

Considering that you need 'about the same amount' of either, Termagants are a lot more efficient on the wallet.
I also highly rate Tyranid Warriors in mono-Tyranids 'cause they have 3 Wounds and Synapse, which, again, saves on the wallet when you have 'enough' Termagants and start going into Big Stuff. Meanwhile, GSC Characters are costing more in currency than they do in points.

[Forum Explorer]

So thinking about it, I wrote up a quick theory Space Wolf list.

Spoiler: Space Wolves 2000 points

Show

Battalion

HQ
Ragnar
Wolf guard Battle Leader with Storm Shield, Frost Axe, and the Wolfenstone

Troops
5 Blood Claws, 1 Powerfist
5 Blood Claws, 1 Powerfist
5 Blood Claws, 1 Powerfist

Elites
6 Wolf Guard Teminator, 3 Storm Shield, Thunder Hammers, 3 Storm Bolter, Frost Axe

Flyer
Stormwolf with 2 Twin Heavy Bolters, two lascannons, Twin Helfrost Cannon
HQ
Arjac Rockfist
Rune Priest with Runic Staff and Bolt Pistol

Troops
5 Blood Claws, 1 Powerfist
5 Blood Claws, 1 Powerfist
5 Blood Claws, 1 Powerfist

Elites
6 Wolf Guard Teminator, 3 Storm Shield, Thunder Hammers, 3 Storm Bolter, Frost Axe

Flyer
Stormwolf with 2 Twin Heavy Bolters, two lascannons, Twin Helfrost Cannon

Idea is that you get Ragnar into position so that when the terminators show up, he can give them all reroll to their charges. Everyone is aboard the Stormwolves turn 1, and start at the far edge of the board. Then they shoot forward, hopefully not die, and everyone gets out and prepared to charge in turn 2. It's all about having a really strong turn 2, though the 2 Stormwolves should be able to kill a couple things turn 1.

[Ornithologist]

Buy a fun looking necromunda gang, and convert them into all the characters you need with all the bits you get left over from the expensive cultists you need to buy. The gang should have enough odd weapons to make what you need.

[Wraith]

Using a Necromunda Gang to save money on GSC units?

Jesus, how do you save money on your coal bill? By burning diamonds?

[Ornithologist]

The one box runs 30 to 40 usd, but the converted characters cost 25 to 30 usd each if purchased as the stock figure.

Honestly, the whole of GSC is like that. I wouldn't even be playing them if I hadn't gotten like 95% of it 2nd hand and also combining the guard units I already had.

Besides, the best thing to put in the coal furnace are the largest denominated bills I can find. They pack better. ;)

[LansXero]

You laugh, but venezuelans have been burning bolivares for heat for a while now.

And yeah, the price of single characters is bonkers. Im one black friday sale away from using Warmahordes units for Eldar HQs / Elites. Just holding out hope for the Sisters' codex to not be trash. But given all the production time involved in the fancy box and special edition book, Im almost sure it'll be 75% of the beta codex and thats just crap. Hopefully "November" means "Before black friday".

[Ornithologist]

You laugh, but venezuelans have been burning bolivares for heat for a while now.

And yeah, the price of single characters is bonkers. Im one black friday sale away from using Warmahordes units for Eldar HQs / Elites. Just holding out hope for the Sisters' codex to not be trash. But given all the production time involved in the fancy box and special edition book, Im almost sure it'll be 75% of the beta codex and thats just crap. Hopefully "November" means "Before black friday".

Yeah, last time I checked Venezuela had something like a 1,000% or more inflation. I can't imagine its gotten any better since.

Before Black Friday would be very nice for sisters. Though the way Orktober was last year... My guess is December 7th for actual release day. Here's hoping that its not a dumpster fire on arrival.

[LansXero]

Yeah, last time I checked Venezuela had something like a 1,000% or more inflation. I can't imagine its gotten any better since.

Before Black Friday would be very nice for sisters. Though the way Orktober was last year... My guess is December 7th for actual release day. Here's hoping that its not a dumpster fire on arrival.

One thing that doesnt get publicized is that the Venezuelan coin is no longer the 'Bolivar', but the 'Sovereign Bolivar'. a 'Sovereign Bolivar' is worth 1000000 Bolivares (yes, 6 zeros), and THAT is what has the 1000% inflation. Regular Bolivar is worth less than the paper its printed on, and was the normal currency less than two years ago. So burning the old small denomination bills is a worthwhile use of them, sadly enough.

As for sisters, no new units = no sale. Not even a new plastic Immolator / Exorcist, nor a new vehicle similar to the FW Repulsor. If someone needs fire points its Sisters. This tells me that, much like the beta codex, the new codex wont do anything worthwhile for the faction, just a reshuffle of the existing lineup, and its hard to expect them to do it properly. Its much more likely to expect it will be as **** as pre-codex DE, only to be improved by dual-kit releases and expensive HQs / vehicles down the next 6 months, at which point no thanks.

Its too bad I hate the Eldar aesthetic, because I love their rules. So Ill wait until Sisters are oficially trash before I surrender myself to the knife eared xenos :(

[Avaris]

One thing that doesnt get publicized is that the Venezuelan coin is no longer the 'Bolivar', but the 'Sovereign Bolivar'. a 'Sovereign Bolivar' is worth 1000000 Bolivares (yes, 6 zeros), and THAT is what has the 1000% inflation. Regular Bolivar is worth less than the paper its printed on, and was the normal currency less than two years ago. So burning the old small denomination bills is a worthwhile use of them, sadly enough.

As for sisters, no new units = no sale. Not even a new plastic Immolator / Exorcist, nor a new vehicle similar to the FW Repulsor. If someone needs fire points its Sisters. This tells me that, much like the beta codex, the new codex wont do anything worthwhile for the faction, just a reshuffle of the existing lineup, and its hard to expect them to do it properly. Its much more likely to expect it will be as **** as pre-codex DE, only to be improved by dual-kit releases and expensive HQs / vehicles down the next 6 months, at which point no thanks.

Its too bad I hate the Eldar aesthetic, because I love their rules. So Ill wait until Sisters are oficially trash before I surrender myself to the knife eared xenos :(

We're apparently getting a preview of the new Sister's tanks in the next update bulletin, and it's already been confirmed to be a new Rhino/Immolator kit at least (based on the old school Deimos pattern Rhino). No word yet on if there will be any entirely new units, or even a repulsor though (which I would be very surprised to see included, as fire points really aren't a thing any more).

As for releases, it's been confirmed at the Nova Q&A that the box will be released a little while before the rest of the range. I suspect the box will be purely new sculpts of existing models, anything new will be later. I plan to get the box (as Sisters are my main army), but I'm not a fan of this release model.

[Blackhawk748]

Not as bad though - not that I've run the numbers.

In AUD:
Acolyte Hybrids run $70 for 5, and
Termagants run $48 for 10.

Considering that you need 'about the same amount' of either, Termagants are a lot more efficient on the wallet.
I also highly rate Tyranid Warriors in mono-Tyranids 'cause they have 3 Wounds and Synapse, which, again, saves on the wallet when you have 'enough' Termagants and start going into Big Stuff. Meanwhile, GSC Characters are costing more in currency than they do in points.

The only reason I don't own any GSC is because of how disgustingly expensive they are. It's the same reason my Tzeentch Daemons where never finished. Pink horrid got cheaper, but I didn't get more so the army **** way up in price.

We're apparently getting a preview of the new Sister's tanks in the next update bulletin, and it's already been confirmed to be a new Rhino/Immolator kit at least (based on the old school Deimos pattern Rhino). No word yet on if there will be any entirely new units, or even a repulsor though (which I would be very surprised to see included, as fire points really aren't a thing any more).

As for releases, it's been confirmed at the Nova Q&A that the box will be released a little while before the rest of the range. I suspect the box will be purely new sculpts of existing models, anything new will be later. I plan to get the box (as Sisters are my main army), but I'm not a fan of this release model.

Is it an actual new tank or just a 'new' Sister's Rhino that's still just a Rhino?

And please, for the love of the Emperor give me a Repressor. Please!

But ya, not buying the box because it gives me nothing and at most I'll buy 2 or 3 boxes of sisters unless there's something new that I feel i need. But considering how many Sisters I have, I doubt it

[LansXero]

Speaking of GW's quality control, Its been pointed out to me that ruins require a unit to be 'entirely' within for cover, but then the FAQ only clarifies units who are 'wholly' within and yes this is an academic distinction, but its also a very stupid way of handling clarifications. Game terms dont have synonims, because rules need to be exact. So if I ask 'what does chilly mean?' you cant tell me 'being cold is having no heat' because now you have the [Cold] condition defined (a new term) and we still dont know what [Chilly] does. Its not the only example, just the most recent one to surface.

[Cheesegear]

So cheese happened to today.

Leman Russes are chilling out, unfortunately, they are ~1" outside of Guilliman's re-roll aura due to poor eyeballing of distances.
Opponent swivels the turret of the tank, as the turret is longer than the tank is wide.
I can, indeed, confirm that the barrel is now within 12" of Guilliman, and the Russ can now re-roll 1s to hit.
Models without bases with moveable parts are the best models.

Posted from phone.

[LansXero]

So cheese happened to today.

Leman Russes are chilling out, unfortunately, they are ~1" outside of Guilliman's re-roll aura due to poor eyeballing of distances.
Opponent swivels the turret of the tank, as the turret is longer than the tank is wide.
I can, indeed, confirm that the barrel is now within 12" of Guilliman, and the Russ can now re-roll 1s to hit.
Models without bases with moveable parts are the best models.

Posted from phone.

Dont russes have the rule that you must measure from the hull? if he wants to argue his turret gun its a hull then he should lose grinding advance xD

[Cheesegear]

Dont russes have the rule that you must measure from the hull?

No.
That rule is for models where the model is larger than the base (e.g; Aeldari Vehicles), so it doesn't make sense to measure from the base.
Leman Russes don't have bases, so they don't have that rule.

Posted from phone.

[Drasius]

So cheese happened to today.

Leman Russes are chilling out, unfortunately, they are ~1" outside of Guilliman's re-roll aura due to poor eyeballing of distances.
Opponent swivels the turret of the tank, as the turret is longer than the tank is wide.
I can, indeed, confirm that the barrel is now within 12" of Guilliman, and the Russ can now re-roll 1s to hit.
Models without bases with moveable parts are the best models.

Posted from phone.

Moving outside of the movement phase is cheating.

[Cheesegear]

Moving outside of the movement phase is cheating.

Lucky it was the movement phase, then.
The way to nail it would be to measure the travel distance of the end of the barrel and try and deny Grinding Advance. Like LansXero said.

Posted from phone.

[Drasius]

Lucky it was the movement phase, then.
The way to nail it would be to measure the travel distance of the end of the barrel and try and deny Grinding Advance. Like LansXero said.

Posted from phone.

Ah, I thought you meant they were in the shooting phase and then moved the turret to be within range of the aura. Then yeah, as per Lans, deny grinding advance.

This is basically the same garbage as the old "Pivot to gain extra movement" bullcrap people used to try and do, but conviniently forgot to measure total distance moved from the starting point..

[Forum Explorer]

Lucky it was the movement phase, then.
The way to nail it would be to measure the travel distance of the end of the barrel and try and deny Grinding Advance. Like LansXero said.

Posted from phone.

Wait, if it was in the movement phase, why couldn't he just move it back an inch?

[Avaris]

Is it an actual new tank or just a 'new' Sister's Rhino that's still just a Rhino?

And please, for the love of the Emperor give me a Repressor. Please!

But ya, not buying the box because it gives me nothing and at most I'll buy 2 or 3 boxes of sisters unless there's something new that I feel i need. But considering how many Sisters I have, I doubt it

My guess would be that it’s just a remodelled rhino. I expect we’ll get one set that is rhino/immolator, then another that is exorcist/something else. I’ll be very surprised to see anything not on a rhino chassis, not sure if the repressor would be too much variation from that to fit in anywhere.

It’s a shame we haven’t seen anything new yet. My hope is that they are saving the new stuff for the ‘wow’ at actual release, my fear is that updating the entire range means they won’t have introduced anything new.

[LansXero]

Too much variation? This is 'your' army, right? A repressor is a rhino with a shovel on front and a flat box on top.





Those are less extra parts than a regular predator or a Russ and its variants :s