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Thread: Joker (2019)

  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    Ok, let me rephrase that, I KNOW why they did it, I just think it's a very cynical and artistically bankrupt reasoning
    Personally I think there is a lot of potential in doing a film like this and think itís going to be improved by the Joker connection. Cash focused it may be there is nothing inherently artistically bankrupt about the idea.
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    I think it's a testament to the greatness of The Killing Joke that there are so many different interpretations of it. I personally think that the flashbacks are supposed to be objective depictions of the Joker's past, and the line about the past being multiple choice is about the mental fog the Joker lives in, not signalling an unreliable narrator. Especially considering that this story came right on the heels of Watchmen, where Moore also employed the technique of mixing past and present to tell the story without any ambiguity of whether the flashbacks were "real" or not. I also don't believe Batman was attacking the Joker at the end - I think they were actually touching each other in a moment of connection, the first and possibly last time doing so in a non-violent manner in their entire lives. It doesn't mean they're the same - Bruce Wayne is a truly empathic person who wants to try to help his greatest enemy, and the Joker is a sadistic psychopath with just enough rationality left to say it's too late for him, which it makes it all the more tragic because some part of him knows he needs saving.

    One of the reasons I find the new film so intriguing is that the creators have said they have deliberately not looked at related material. I don't agree that the Joker needs to be essentially unknowable, I think for a character to be interesting enough to carry a story they have to be relatable in some way no matter how small. I think the new film is going to end up covering very similar territory as The Killing Joke because the idea of an otherwise decent person being pushed so hard they break and reform into a monster seems a pretty clear pathway towards explaining this character. I hope that we get to see the hint of the malevolence in him before the Big Break happens, so we can see why he goes so crazy evil. But on the other hand, the previews seem to indicate that he's put upon by society in general, which would explain why he wants to destroy capital S-Society, as opposed to Bruce Wayne's Bad Day being the result of actions from someone who breaks society's laws. So I won't be surprised if the character seems pretty blameless up until he goes over the edge. I think that would be the weaker storytelling choice, though.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Is it a comedy? Just wondering.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kalbfus View Post
    Is it a comedy? Just wondering.
    Well, one guy seems to be laughing a lot.


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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kalbfus View Post
    Is it a comedy? Just wondering.
    Depends, do you like very dark and very dry humor, and think of deserts as "oceans" because they are "oceans of sand"?

    but seriously it isn't.
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    By all accounts it is a non-continuity movie in the vein of DC Black Label comics. A way for DC to explore content that doesn't otherwise fit into the move PG-13ish comic books, but might be interesting.

    From the reviews, here's the jist: Arthur (pre-Joker) has a condition where he laughs uncontrollably. Yes this a real thing people can have. He's obsessed with Robert DeNiro's late night comedy king (in a callback to Kings of Comedy). In fact one review o caught said if you liked Raging Bull or The King of Comedy this is a modern iteration of the same themes, but using The Joker. Things go progressively off the rails for Arthur, he retaliates and builds a following around this retaliation and it all spirals out of control.

    Joaquin Phoenix apparently has an absolutely amazing performance, and plays Arthur becoming The Joker to the hilt. He's outright admitted to trying to play The Joker in such a way that it isn't possible to actually identify or empathize with him.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Well, I discover that the Joker is rated R, not PG-13.

    I repeated Joker is rated R, not PG-13.

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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Well, I discover that the Joker is rated R, not PG-13.

    I repeated Joker is rated R, not PG-13.
    ...yes? I wasn't aware there was confusion about that.
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    ...yes? I wasn't aware there was confusion about that.
    Well, it's not a confusion anymore. The real rating for Joker is officially rated R.

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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Well, it's not a confusion anymore. The real rating for Joker is officially rated R.
    What I'm saying is, the trailers always eventually say the rating, the posters always eventually say the rating, and just based off the first trailer, I'd just pegged it as likely to get rated R based. There's usually no confusion on the rating because they advertise the rating heavily.
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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    What I'm saying is, the trailers always eventually say the rating, the posters always eventually say the rating, and just based off the first trailer, I'd just pegged it as likely to get rated R based. There's usually no confusion on the rating because they advertise the rating heavily.
    Yes. I understand what you saying. I knew it would be an R rating. Because this movie is too....how can I put this.....violent and extreme for a PG-13 rating.

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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Yes. I understand what you saying. I knew it would be an R rating. Because this movie is too....how can I put this.....violent and extreme for a PG-13 rating.
    But why are you telling us that it is R. Everyone knows it is R. No one thought it is PG-13.
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  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    But why are you telling us that it is R. Everyone knows it is R. No one thought it is PG-13.
    Really? I didn't know that all of you knew.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    But why are you telling us that it is R. Everyone knows it is R. No one thought it is PG-13.
    I didn't know that. In fact I just learned of this when I watched a trailer for the film like an hour ago. This could be the best R rated film featuring a character called Joker since...

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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I've had something happen this week that's changed how I look at the film..... My dad is not a Comics books fan. He hasn't watched any of the MCU, nor any of the DC movies including the original Batman movies from back in the day. I asked him about this after the movie...and he was surprised that it's a comic book movie. He didn't know who the Joker was outside of a very broad "he's that Batman villain", and hadn't recognized from either the trailer or the title that this movie was related to Batman/DC at all.....But I don't think I can judge the movie ahead of time based on "that's not how my preconceived notion of how the character in another universe would act".
    Honestly I'm in your dad's camp on this one.

    I don't like "comic book movies" per se. Didn't like the MCU or DCEU. Read very few comic books myself. There are exceptions to be sure. The Dark Knight was pretty good but could give the other two a miss. And I felt very lucky I saw Dredd in 3D (it is on my list of two movies I saw that really used 3D well along with Cave of Forgotten Dreams). I generally lean to character studies, "oscar bait", some "art house" stuff, corporate thrillers when I can get them, the variously oddball (Neon Demon, Lynch, etc) etc....And I find myself rather drawn to this movie.
    I want to see this.

    I think the director was asked if it was a comedy an action film or whatever...He said "A tragedy"

    I think this looks like a good movie..but not aimed at the MCU or Nolan Batman crowd. I think it may be part of the normalization of comic book culture as movies from these sources expand in various directions.

    I just really hope they leave Batman basically out of it...
    Last edited by sktarq; 2019-09-27 at 03:48 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Well in my defense I thought it was PG-13.

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    Ok, let me rephrase that, I KNOW why they did it, I just think it's a very cynical and artistically bankrupt reasoning
    If you want to see original films, you should go to Vimeo, Youtube, Gumroad, or another website that specializes in distributing independent media. If you want to see a cynical cash grab with a lot of celebrities and a cliche story, go see movies produced by the MPAA member studios.
    Last edited by 137ben; 2019-09-27 at 08:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    If you want to see original films, you should go to Vimeo, Youtube, Gumroad, or another website that specializes in distributing independent media. If you want to see a cynical cash grab with a lot of celebrities and a cliche story, go see movies produced by the MPAA member studios.
    Or go see it at Hulu, Netflix or Amazon Prime.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Or go see it at Hulu, Netflix or Amazon Prime.
    Those don't tend to have a lot of independent media, to the best of my knowledge.
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  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Those don't tend to have a lot of independent media, to the best of my knowledge.
    Are you kidding me? I've seen a lot of independent in those streams.

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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Are you kidding me? I've seen a lot of independent in those streams.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    to the best of my knowledge.
    Feel free to enlighten me.
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  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Feel free to enlighten me.
    I can but I don't wanna.

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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    When netflix started, it was chock full of weird indie films. These days they've almost all moved to Amazon Prime. I'd highly recommend The FP2 (post-apocalyptic DDR movie, weirder than you think it's going to be)

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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Yes. I understand what you saying. I knew it would be an R rating. Because this movie is too....how can I put this.....violent and extreme for a PG-13 rating.
    Only reference to PG-13 was a comparison to the relatively PG-13ishness of regular DC Comics to their more "mature" Black Label comics. The Joker is by all accounts in line with DC Black Label in that explores themes and images that aren't appropriate for the core material as well as being out of continuity with the rest of the line.

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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshL View Post
    When netflix started, it was chock full of weird indie films. These days they've almost all moved to Amazon Prime. I'd highly recommend The FP2 (post-apocalyptic DDR movie, weirder than you think it's going to be)
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Say, does anyone know WHY it's being set in 1981? There has to be some significant reason why they're going through the effort and extra cost of making a period film rather than a contemporary one.
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  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeivar View Post
    Say, does anyone know WHY it's being set in 1981? There has to be some significant reason why they're going through the effort and extra cost of making a period film rather than a contemporary one.
    Apparently, because it was supposed to make certain that no one confuses it for being part of the current DCEU in any way. Especially the movie executives.

    Though, personally, I'm going to be watching it and trying to see how many plot points could be solved by cellphones.

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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Any movie worthy of both Best Original Screenplay and Best Adapted Screenplay would be impressive indeed, I've gotta say.
    Not to mention both Documentary (and Animated) Feature and Documentary (and Animated) Short Subject.

    Oh! And Best Foreign Language Film. That one would be EXTRA impressive, as it would specifically require the film to be released in another country and NOT the US. Whereas any of the others would require the opposite./

    I'll admit it, I'd go see it if that happened.
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  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeivar View Post
    Say, does anyone know WHY it's being set in 1981? There has to be some significant reason why they're going through the effort and extra cost of making a period film rather than a contemporary one.
    My immediate thought was the New York -> Gotham connection*. The 1980s were an iconic "urban hell" period for New York, and that period would give the perfect anarchy for the rise of the Joker. It allows them to pull more realistic scenes of inner city decay, rather than the more stylized Gotham we often see. There's a certain apocalyptic feel to the time period in general (ever notice how all post-apocalypse media features 1980s punks?), and setting it then avoids problems like the Internet and cell phones.

    It's also an origin story, so setting it in the past is a good way to show that. The 1980s are the most visually distinct period of the last 40 years, so it makes sense to pick that if you're going to be doing a period piece anyway.


    *yes, I know it's technically in New Jersey.

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    Default Re: Joker (2019)

    Could also be to remove cell phones and the internet from the picture. That can drastically change the likelihood of events happening.
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