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Thread: Joker (2019)
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2019-09-16, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Knoxville Tennessee
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Re: Joker (2019)
Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
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2019-09-17, 12:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2015
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- State of Uncertainty
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Re: Joker (2019)
I think it's a testament to the greatness of The Killing Joke that there are so many different interpretations of it. I personally think that the flashbacks are supposed to be objective depictions of the Joker's past, and the line about the past being multiple choice is about the mental fog the Joker lives in, not signalling an unreliable narrator. Especially considering that this story came right on the heels of Watchmen, where Moore also employed the technique of mixing past and present to tell the story without any ambiguity of whether the flashbacks were "real" or not. I also don't believe Batman was attacking the Joker at the end - I think they were actually touching each other in a moment of connection, the first and possibly last time doing so in a non-violent manner in their entire lives. It doesn't mean they're the same - Bruce Wayne is a truly empathic person who wants to try to help his greatest enemy, and the Joker is a sadistic psychopath with just enough rationality left to say it's too late for him, which it makes it all the more tragic because some part of him knows he needs saving.
One of the reasons I find the new film so intriguing is that the creators have said they have deliberately not looked at related material. I don't agree that the Joker needs to be essentially unknowable, I think for a character to be interesting enough to carry a story they have to be relatable in some way no matter how small. I think the new film is going to end up covering very similar territory as The Killing Joke because the idea of an otherwise decent person being pushed so hard they break and reform into a monster seems a pretty clear pathway towards explaining this character. I hope that we get to see the hint of the malevolence in him before the Big Break happens, so we can see why he goes so crazy evil. But on the other hand, the previews seem to indicate that he's put upon by society in general, which would explain why he wants to destroy capital S-Society, as opposed to Bruce Wayne's Bad Day being the result of actions from someone who breaks society's laws. So I won't be surprised if the character seems pretty blameless up until he goes over the edge. I think that would be the weaker storytelling choice, though.Some people think that Chaotic Neutral is the alignment of the insane, but the enlightened know that Chaotic Neutral is the only alignment without illusions of sanity.
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2019-09-17, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
Re: Joker (2019)
Is it a comedy? Just wondering.
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2019-09-17, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
- Location
- Germany
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2019-09-17, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: Joker (2019)
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2019-09-18, 03:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Protecting my Horde (yes, I mean that kind)
Re: Joker (2019)
By all accounts it is a non-continuity movie in the vein of DC Black Label comics. A way for DC to explore content that doesn't otherwise fit into the move PG-13ish comic books, but might be interesting.
From the reviews, here's the jist: Arthur (pre-Joker) has a condition where he laughs uncontrollably. Yes this a real thing people can have. He's obsessed with Robert DeNiro's late night comedy king (in a callback to Kings of Comedy). In fact one review o caught said if you liked Raging Bull or The King of Comedy this is a modern iteration of the same themes, but using The Joker. Things go progressively off the rails for Arthur, he retaliates and builds a following around this retaliation and it all spirals out of control.
Joaquin Phoenix apparently has an absolutely amazing performance, and plays Arthur becoming The Joker to the hilt. He's outright admitted to trying to play The Joker in such a way that it isn't possible to actually identify or empathize with him.
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2019-09-23, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
Re: Joker (2019)
Well, I discover that the Joker is rated R, not PG-13.
I repeated Joker is rated R, not PG-13.
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2019-09-23, 08:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Washington D.C.
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2019-09-23, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
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2019-09-23, 08:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Washington D.C.
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Re: Joker (2019)
What I'm saying is, the trailers always eventually say the rating, the posters always eventually say the rating, and just based off the first trailer, I'd just pegged it as likely to get rated R based. There's usually no confusion on the rating because they advertise the rating heavily.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-09-23, 08:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
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2019-09-24, 07:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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2019-09-24, 07:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
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2019-09-26, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
Re: Joker (2019)
I didn't know that. In fact I just learned of this when I watched a trailer for the film like an hour ago. This could be the best R rated film featuring a character called Joker since...
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2019-09-27, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Location
- Santa Barbara, CA
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Re: Joker (2019)
Honestly I'm in your dad's camp on this one.
I don't like "comic book movies" per se. Didn't like the MCU or DCEU. Read very few comic books myself. There are exceptions to be sure. The Dark Knight was pretty good but could give the other two a miss. And I felt very lucky I saw Dredd in 3D (it is on my list of two movies I saw that really used 3D well along with Cave of Forgotten Dreams). I generally lean to character studies, "oscar bait", some "art house" stuff, corporate thrillers when I can get them, the variously oddball (Neon Demon, Lynch, etc) etc....And I find myself rather drawn to this movie.
I want to see this.
I think the director was asked if it was a comedy an action film or whatever...He said "A tragedy"
I think this looks like a good movie..but not aimed at the MCU or Nolan Batman crowd. I think it may be part of the normalization of comic book culture as movies from these sources expand in various directions.
I just really hope they leave Batman basically out of it...Last edited by sktarq; 2019-09-27 at 03:48 PM.
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2019-09-27, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
Re: Joker (2019)
Well in my defense I thought it was PG-13.
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2019-09-27, 08:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: Joker (2019)
If you want to see original films, you should go to Vimeo, Youtube, Gumroad, or another website that specializes in distributing independent media. If you want to see a cynical cash grab with a lot of celebrities and a cliche story, go see movies produced by the MPAA member studios.
Last edited by 137beth; 2019-09-27 at 08:48 PM.
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2019-09-27, 08:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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2019-09-27, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Washington D.C.
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2019-09-27, 09:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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2019-09-27, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Washington D.C.
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2019-09-27, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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2019-09-28, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
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- Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: Joker (2019)
When netflix started, it was chock full of weird indie films. These days they've almost all moved to Amazon Prime. I'd highly recommend The FP2 (post-apocalyptic DDR movie, weirder than you think it's going to be)
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2019-09-28, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Protecting my Horde (yes, I mean that kind)
Re: Joker (2019)
Only reference to PG-13 was a comparison to the relatively PG-13ishness of regular DC Comics to their more "mature" Black Label comics. The Joker is by all accounts in line with DC Black Label in that explores themes and images that aren't appropriate for the core material as well as being out of continuity with the rest of the line.
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2019-10-01, 09:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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- material & internet plane
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2019-10-01, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Iceland
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Re: Joker (2019)
Say, does anyone know WHY it's being set in 1981? There has to be some significant reason why they're going through the effort and extra cost of making a period film rather than a contemporary one.
"Is this 'cause I killed the hippie? Is that even illegal?"
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2019-10-01, 10:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
Re: Joker (2019)
Apparently, because it was supposed to make certain that no one confuses it for being part of the current DCEU in any way. Especially the movie executives.
Though, personally, I'm going to be watching it and trying to see how many plot points could be solved by cellphones.
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2019-10-01, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Grognardia
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Re: Joker (2019)
Not to mention both Documentary (and Animated) Feature and Documentary (and Animated) Short Subject.
Oh! And Best Foreign Language Film. That one would be EXTRA impressive, as it would specifically require the film to be released in another country and NOT the US. Whereas any of the others would require the opposite./
I'll admit it, I'd go see it if that happened.(Avatar by Cuthalion, who is great.)
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2019-10-01, 02:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
Re: Joker (2019)
My immediate thought was the New York -> Gotham connection*. The 1980s were an iconic "urban hell" period for New York, and that period would give the perfect anarchy for the rise of the Joker. It allows them to pull more realistic scenes of inner city decay, rather than the more stylized Gotham we often see. There's a certain apocalyptic feel to the time period in general (ever notice how all post-apocalypse media features 1980s punks?), and setting it then avoids problems like the Internet and cell phones.
It's also an origin story, so setting it in the past is a good way to show that. The 1980s are the most visually distinct period of the last 40 years, so it makes sense to pick that if you're going to be doing a period piece anyway.
*yes, I know it's technically in New Jersey.
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2019-10-01, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
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Re: Joker (2019)
Could also be to remove cell phones and the internet from the picture. That can drastically change the likelihood of events happening.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2