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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Homebrew Feat Analysis

    Can you tell me the difference between these two mechanics, other than the obvious that one can be used to target two different creatures?
    What are the pros and cons of each feat? Is there any reason to include both of them in my all-homebrewed list of Feats?

    1. Whenever you take the Attack action while wielding a weapon with both hands you can choose to take a penalty to the attack roll equal to your proficiency bonus, and gain a bonus to the damage roll equal to twice your proficiency bonus.

    2. Whenever you take the Attack action while wielding a weapon with both hands you can choose make one additional attack as a part of the action. If you do so, all attacks made as a part of the action are rolled with disadvantage.

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    The damage column shows total damage output on hit over an entire round, and is modified based on factors like recharge, AoE etc.

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    Default Re: Homebrew Feat Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    Can you tell me the difference between these two mechanics, other than the obvious that one can be used to target two different creatures?
    What are the pros and cons of each feat? Is there any reason to include both of them in my all-homebrewed list of Feats?

    1. Whenever you take the Attack action while wielding a weapon with both hands you can choose to take a penalty to the attack roll equal to your proficiency bonus, and gain a bonus to the damage roll equal to twice your proficiency bonus.

    2. Whenever you take the Attack action while wielding a weapon with both hands you can choose make one additional attack as a part of the action. If you do so, all attacks made as a part of the action are rolled with disadvantage.
    Leaving a full numerical analysis aside, the 2nd option is more powerful the more additional bonus damage source you've got on your weapon, such as smites or certain spells. The 2nd option would also be more reliable. It'd need both attacks to hit to get ahead of option 1, but it's chances of both attacks missing aren't very high. It's also a free bonus if you've already got a source of disadvantage from something else.

    Overall, I'd be more worried about the balance implications of the second option, because there's a lot more space to optimize it than with the first option. Balance-wise, I feel like the 2nd option is straight up more powerful than the first, but I haven't run the numbers to confirm it. Both these feats do sell different fantasies, one being the single big strong hit and the other one being the flurry of blows, so flavor-wise they might both fit.
    Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Homebrew Feat Analysis

    This is designed for the casual gamer, so I'm not worried about optimisation, just the overall feel. I don't want to present trap options either.

    If you have, let's say, extra attack, is the 2nd feat still worth it?

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    The damage column shows total damage output on hit over an entire round, and is modified based on factors like recharge, AoE etc.

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    Default Re: Homebrew Feat Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    If you have, let's say, extra attack, is the 2nd feat still worth it?
    It depends on the enemy. The fighter will probably not find it worth it once he gets 3 attacks as a standard, but in most other cases if you're striking at something that you can hit reliably, or already have a source of disadvantage I think it'd definitely be worth it.

    edit: I realize now that I'd been reading the 2nd ability wrong. I thought it doubled all your attacks, but it only gives you one extra attack, which skews the math a bit. You'd need to have a way to make your extra attacks hit harder than usual to make it worth it once you pick up extra attack, such as smite or spells like 'holy weapon'.
    Last edited by DeTess; 2019-09-03 at 09:51 AM.
    Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Homebrew Feat Analysis

    'If you have the extra attack class feature you can make two additional attacks instead of one'?

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    The damage column shows total damage output on hit over an entire round, and is modified based on factors like recharge, AoE etc.

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    Composer99's Avatar

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    Default Re: Homebrew Feat Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    Can you tell me the difference between these two mechanics, other than the obvious that one can be used to target two different creatures?
    What are the pros and cons of each feat? Is there any reason to include both of them in my all-homebrewed list of Feats?

    1. Whenever you take the Attack action while wielding a weapon with both hands you can choose to take a penalty to the attack roll equal to your proficiency bonus, and gain a bonus to the damage roll equal to twice your proficiency bonus.

    2. Whenever you take the Attack action while wielding a weapon with both hands you can choose make one additional attack as a part of the action. If you do so, all attacks made as a part of the action are rolled with disadvantage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    'If you have the extra attack class feature you can make two additional attacks instead of one'?
    Option #1 is basically what Great Weapon Master already does, just with scaling over time instead of the straight up -5/+10.

    Let's say you're hitting AC 15 and with a proficiency bonus of +2 and ability modifier of +3 (not unreasonable if you get this option early on). Normally, you need to roll a 10 to hit, so 50% chance of normal hit, 5% chance of critical hit, and remaining 45% chance of missing. Let's assume greatsword, for 7 average damage, and no fighting style.

    Normal damage per attack = (0.45)(0) + (0.5)(10) + (0.05)(17) = 5.7 dpa

    With GWM (-5/+10) the chance of hitting goes down 25% and the chance of missing goes up by the same amount, but the overall damage goes up a lot:
    GWM damage per attack = (0.7)(0) + (0.25)(20) + (0.05)(27) = 6.35 dpa

    With this option at this proficiency bonus (-2/+4), we get damage per attack = (0.55)(0) + (0.4)(14) + (0.05)(21) = 6.65 dpa

    If you expand up and down ACs and chances to hit, the -5/+10 is a better damage booster at low enemy ACs, the -prof/+2*prof is better versus middling ACs, and normal attacking is better against high ACs. The pattern changes as the -prof/2*prof equals and then exceeds GWM in magnitude.

    Option #2 with the additional clause is amazing for barbarians. Just Reckless Attack to ignore the disadvantage and you're making 4 swings with your greatsword or greataxe at 5th level. Team it up with GWM or option 1 for some serious damage shenanigans.
    ~ Composer99

    D&D 5e Homebrew:
    Character Options: Fighter Remix, Paladin Oaths, Ranger Remix, Sorcerer Remix
    Playing the Game: Using Ability Score Variants
    New Subsystems: Combat Manoeuvre System
    Monsters: Yogg-Saron

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Homebrew Feat Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    Can you tell me the difference between these two mechanics, other than the obvious that one can be used to target two different creatures?
    What are the pros and cons of each feat? Is there any reason to include both of them in my all-homebrewed list of Feats?

    1. Whenever you take the Attack action while wielding a weapon with both hands you can choose to take a penalty to the attack roll equal to your proficiency bonus, and gain a bonus to the damage roll equal to twice your proficiency bonus.

    2. Whenever you take the Attack action while wielding a weapon with both hands you can choose make one additional attack as a part of the action. If you do so, all attacks made as a part of the action are rolled with disadvantage.
    1. Essentially the same as GWM's current damage, sans bonus action attack on kill or crit, which makes it a bit too good, especially in relation to the other feats. I suggest still limiting it to a single attack per turn, really does a good job of curbing its craziness.

    2. 2 gets a bit swingy for damage. When you've got a low AC opponent or have Advantage the damage can really really spike pushing it into the two good range. I've been working on a similar feat, but the two disadvantaged attacks need to be targeted at different targets. That math works out a bit funnier, losing most of its punch. I'd have to do more work, but as a high level feat I'm not seeing this one really stacking up when a character gets extra attack. I mean, you'd need basicall a low AC enemy and Advantage for it to be worth it.

    Out of the two feats, I'd add #1 to a game before I'd add #1, and I'd add #1 with the single attack per round caveat for balance's sake. And if I was going to use #2, I'd make it for each normal attack they make a disadvantaged attack at a different enemy, so thats 2 attacks instead of one and then 4 instead of 2. I think that math will work out well and as it targets different enemies has a more unique niche in the game space and doesn't hurt single target balance at all.

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    Default Re: Homebrew Feat Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman View Post
    1. Essentially the same as GWM's current damage, sans bonus action attack on kill or crit, which makes it a bit too good, especially in relation to the other feats. I suggest still limiting it to a single attack per turn, really does a good job of curbing its craziness.
    Wouldn't that make this feat strictly worse than GWM, since that feat gives a bonus action attack option and this doesn't?
    ~ Composer99

    D&D 5e Homebrew:
    Character Options: Fighter Remix, Paladin Oaths, Ranger Remix, Sorcerer Remix
    Playing the Game: Using Ability Score Variants
    New Subsystems: Combat Manoeuvre System
    Monsters: Yogg-Saron

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Homebrew Feat Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    Wouldn't that make this feat strictly worse than GWM, since that feat gives a bonus action attack option and this doesn't?
    Yes it would. Since it was so close to the effect of GWM already, I read it as almost a replacement feat. There isn't really a reason for both of them to be side by side in a game.

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